Posted: 2/12/2004 12:02:03 AM EDT
| I have an Ice problem in my fairly steep driveway. I need to have it repaved(probably due to years of abuse from salt) and I am considering having it heated. Does anyone have a heated drive? If so what system do you have? Electric or hotwater? Do you like it and was it worth it? Thanks alot. |
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First off, I'm have NO experience with this. But something does jump to mind. If you're using hot water. If/when the power goes out. Lets say for an [i]extended[/i] period of time and the water lines freeze wouldn't you risk the chance of a busted concrete driveway? Or are there failsafes built into the system? |
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Quoted: First off, I'm have NO experience with this. But something does jump to mind. If you're using hot water. If/when the power goes out. Lets say for an [i]extended[/i] period of time and the water lines freeze wouldn't you risk the chance of a busted concrete driveway? Or are there failsafes built into the system? There is a valve that you can turn the flow on or off. I have a gas hotwater heater. I dont use it in the summer |
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Quoted: First off, I'm have NO experience with this. But something does jump to mind. If you're using hot water. If/when the power goes out. Lets say for an [i]extended[/i] period of time and the water lines freeze wouldn't you risk the chance of a busted concrete driveway? Or are there failsafes built into the system? Anti-freeze? |
| It seems like a driveway would be a perfect heatsink application. The heat from the sun all summer could be stored for the winter. After initial costs, you would only be paying for the pumping. Any one know about the start up costs for this type of heat sink application. Too expensive for a driveway? |
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I suppose that you could just put all that summer heat in the Energizer brand heat battery? And in the winter you can reverse the polarity of the battery and make it store cold, for use as air conditioning in the summer. You have solved the energy crisis single handed. |
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OOOOHH... mocked by the ignorant. I think I will cry. Yeah, pretty much, except a large area of ground is the battery. [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=101122&c=500&z=1"][img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/101122.gif[/img][/url] "Owners of geoexchange systems can relax and enjoy high-quality heating and cooling year after year. Geoexchange systems work on a different principle than an ordinary furnace/air conditioning system, and they require little maintenance or attention from homeowners. Furnaces must create heat by burning a fuel--typically natural gas, propane, or fuel oil. With geoexchange systems, there’s no need to create heat, hence no need for chemical combustion. Instead, the Earth’s natural heat is collected in winter through a series of pipes, called a loop, installed below the surface of the ground or submersed in a pond or lake. Fluid circulating in the loop carries this heat to the home. An indoor geoexchange system then uses electrically-driven compressors and heat exchangers in a vapor compression cycle--the same principle employed in a refrigerator--to concentrate the Earth’s energy and release it inside the home at a higher temperature. In typical systems, duct fans distribute the heat to various rooms. In summer, the process is reversed in order to cool the home. Excess heat is drawn from the home, expelled to the loop, and absorbed by the Earth. Geoexchange systems provide cooling in the same way that a refrigerator keeps its contents cool--by drawing heat from the interior, not by injecting cold air." [url]http://www.geoexchange.org/index.htm[/url] |
| I work for an A/E firm in the midwest. We regularly put a heated water system in the entrances to hospitals and in the approaches for the emergency department drop-offs for hospitals. I say regularly meaning the last two jobs that we did. I think the systems have come a long way to be able to do this. I am a structural engineer, not a mechanical. All I know is that a dedicated pump and reservoir are needed. I have to make the concrete thicker and detail the joints and reinforcing specifically for the system. Talk to a reputably commercial contractor and maybe local M/E design firm. |
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Heated drive way is known in the trade as "snowmelt system". Electric will cost you 3 to 4 TIMES as much to operate but MAY be cheaper to install. Oxygen barrier PEX tubing is plastic tied to wire mesh before the pour. Make SURE the people doing the job know their business!! Antifreeze used is propalene glycol. For tons of info, search on "snow melt" and "radiant heat". |
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Quoted: Oxygen barrier PEX tubing is plastic tied to wire mesh before the pour. Make SURE the people doing the job know their business!! The last part cant be stressed enough. The tubing is a plumbers job (assumption, concrete guys dont know anything about it!), and concrete finishers are not famous for attention to detail. Once it gets covered you wont know what happened underneath, and once it gets hard , its a done deal, or tear it out and do it again. |
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Harness the sun. I worked at a filling station several years ago that had two huge solar collectors on the roof to heat the building floor and driveway. It could be 0° and blizzarding outside and we'd have the front doors propped open because it was 80º inside. And we never had to worry about scooping the drive. It was a wonderful place to work. |
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I checked into it for the walkways around my house. I have infloor heating in my basement and thought it would be cheap to add the walkways. But I needed an entirely separate system because the inside system used my water heater as the heat exchanger. I could have used the water heater, but then the outside system couldn't use ant-freeze, meaning it would run constantly, $200-$300 per month in energy costs minimum. A system I could turn on and off requires a separate boiler. For the system to work well, you would need to turn it on when the storm starts so the snow melts immediately. Waiting until the snow builds up doesn't work well with a typical home system. You can get an automatic switch though. |
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I am not a fan of water heaters being used for heat. SOme serious safety issues are involved. To each his own. One CAN use the same boiler for snow melt and home heating; just use antifreeze in entire system! One can also choose to use a water to water heat exchanger with antifreeze only in the outside loop. Tubing install is NOT a job for mere plumbers. The task is demanding and needs to be guided by folks that are familiar with the task!! Commonly, the tuubing is installed and pressure tested with air. During the pour, a HVAC guy watches the pressure closely and if the concrete guys screw it up, the pressure drops, warning of damage. Bubbles in the concrete point to the leak which can be fixed before the stuff hardens - but you gotta be quick about it!! Two errors come to mind; cheating on adequate insulation under the slab. Concrete guys HATE working over insulation and do anything to discourage doing the right thing!! Owners want to save money on the project, even at the risk of it not working. Never ceases to amaze me! Wanting to use the matt the tubing is tied to as reinforcement of the slab. Too bad, it don't work that way!! The matt lies at the bottom of the slab. Tubing MUST be near center of the slab. A bit long to describe here but there are exact ways to do this and a million ways to screw the pooch. Use a contractor with a proven track record then ENJOY!! |
| At work we use food grade glycol. We have used it for years and have had no problems at all. If I redo my driveway, I will install it here. It is fantastic. You do not need to heat it very much at all. I have seen systems that keep the glycol at 40F and they worked great. |
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"Food grade glycol" IS propelene glycol. Unlike etelene glycol (automotive anti-freeze) prop is non-toxic. It there are any metal parts in a heating system such as pumps, valves etc, a "buffered" or "inhibited fluid is required to control corrosion and fouling. You are correct that 40 degree temps are adequate for snow melt. As someone said before, the secret is preheating the slab BEFORE significant snowfall. |