Posted: 1/20/2004 9:31:57 PM EDT
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...who keeps on spouting "facts" about things he has no idea about, and in the process flaming people who have a much better idea than them and discrediting them. eg1 he says that .223 and 5.56mm rounds are COMPLETELY different, with .223 being at least 2x as fast as 5.56. eg2 he says shrapnel is easily as fast as 10,000 fps, and they shrapnel easily penetrates bulletproof vests. he once went so far as to say that it cant be in fps, since it is too slow, so it must be in mps. Even after numerous people called BS on him and proved him wrong, he refuses to STFU and continues to discredit people and spout off BS. PLEASE come and shut this bastard up. Him calling a 50mm artilley piece a 50 cal artillery piece and insisting its the same is really PISSING ME OFF! http://soldner.jowood.com/forum/showthread.php?s=a77df04dccaad8e9adfc536fefe64389&threadid=5067&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 |
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Even after numerous people called BS on him and proved him wrong, he refuses to STFU and continues to discredit people and spout off BS. Your case (and this idiot) are hopeless. Anyone who continues to spout bullshit when confronted with FACTS is a mental case. They have their prestige, self-image and worldview so intertwined with what they percive as themselves that they'd rather die than be wrong. Hopeless, hopeless, hopeless. |
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Quoted: ...who keeps on spouting "facts" about things he has no idea about, and in the process flaming people who have a much better idea than them and discrediting them. eg1 he says that .223 and 5.56mm rounds are COMPLETELY different, with .223 being at least 2x as fast as 5.56. eg2 he says shrapnel is easily as fast as 10,000 fps, and they shrapnel easily penetrates bulletproof vests. he once went so far as to say that it cant be in fps, since it is too slow, so it must be in mps. Even after numerous people called BS on him and proved him wrong, he refuses to STFU and continues to discredit people and spout off BS. PLEASE come and shut this bastard up. Him calling a 50mm artilley piece a 50 cal artillery piece and insisting its the same is really PISSING ME OFF! http://soldner.jowood.com/forum/showthread.php?s=a77df04dccaad8e9adfc536fefe64389&threadid=5067&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 A fellow member, perhaps? [lol] [devil] |
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Quoted: ...who keeps on spouting "facts" about things he has no idea about, and in the process flaming people who have a much better idea than them and discrediting them. eg1 he says that .223 and 5.56mm rounds are COMPLETELY different, with .223 being at least 2x as fast as 5.56. eg2 he says shrapnel is easily as fast as 10,000 fps, and they shrapnel easily penetrates bulletproof vests. he once went so far as to say that it cant be in fps, since it is too slow, so it must be in mps. Even after numerous people called BS on him and proved him wrong, he refuses to STFU and continues to discredit people and spout off BS. PLEASE come and shut this bastard up. Him calling a 50mm artilley piece a 50 cal artillery piece and insisting its the same is really PISSING ME OFF! http://soldner.jowood.com/forum/showthread.php?s=a77df04dccaad8e9adfc536fefe64389&threadid=5067&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 I must be blind or stupid (both, most likely), but I din't see the above mentioned posts. Am I missing something, here? |
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Well someone has posted a very long post to shut him up...if he can reply to it, he is one ignorant arsehole. The thread looks like its gonna be locked soon anyway... The .223 vs 5.56 bit is somewhere near the middle/beginning, around the part where he says the 5.56 round is only standard for America and that there are AP .223 rounds, and that .223 rounds shoot alot further than 5.56 rounds. I think its just after the part where he says that smaller round=better armour piercing capabilities, which is why the military uses 5.56 rounds cos its smaller than .223. the 10,000 fps bit is throughout the whole thread, continues to the part where he says the Phalanx shoots at 10,000 fps because it is necessary to shoot at that high velocities to hit things 3 miles away. By his calculations and his expert knowledge of physics and maths, he has determined a bullet wont penetrate ur skin at a mile, as a bullet would lose 1000 fps every 1000 feet. Theres a whole lot of BS. If anything, its a good source of entertainment as his claims are so rediculous, as are his attempts to back up his claims and discredit everyone else. |
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You are wasting your time dealing with an idiot. How old are you and why does this bother you? FWIW, most High Explosives detonate between 2,000 and 8,500 meters per second (or approx. 6,500 to 27,900 feet per second). Any primary fragmentation could possibly start that fast but would rapidly begin to slow down. 10,000 fps seems like a very possible speed for frag - but I am admittedly no expert on frgmentation and wound effects. |
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Im 17 and very bored :) and the sheer stupidity of this guy astounds me...then again i havent visited the DU forums before... Sorry, i should have specified shrapnel from a standard US army grenade. The whole debate started when he said one US army grenade would kill anyone within a room, through shrapnel and concussion (body jellified) |
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Quoted: Im 17 and very bored :) and the sheer stupidity of this guy astounds me...then again i havent visited the DU forums before... Sorry, I should have specified shrapnel from a standard US army grenade. The whole debate started when he said one US army grenade would kill anyone within a room, through shrapnel and concussion (body jellified) Your standard defensive M67 Frag grenade is filled with Comp B - I could not find the exact ingredients and specs for Comp B on any open-source web-page - so I will not divulge here - but suffice it to say that it is the primary ingredient in most shape charges and in the M18A1 Claymore mine, so it can clearly produce pretty impressive velocities. The generally accepted lethal redius of the M67 Frag grenade is 5 meters. Many rooms fit within that, though many things can partially shield the effect of the blast and fragmentation. FWIW, Schrapnel is a slang term for fragmentation - and was named after something that predates me by a long ways, so is not really the correct word to use in this case. "Concussion" sounds like "Blast" (pressure wave produced by detonation). |
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I guess i should elaborate more... In a 20x20 foot room, with furniture, he said you would die, even if you turned your bed over and hid behind it, cos the shrapnel would go right throught it. According to him, shrapnel would go right through a 1 inch steel plate with ease, as steel isnt a solid object. |
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Quoted: I guess i should elaborate more... In a 20x20 foot room, with furniture, he said you would die, even if you turned your bed over and hid behind it, cos the shrapnel would go right throught it. According to him, shrapnel would go right through a 1 inch steel plate with ease, as steel isnt a solid object. You may live, but I doubt you'd be doing much fighting. |
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A long time ago, I used to teach Scuba Diving. I had one student who had more money then sense question me about communicating underwater. I demonstrated a few ways that you could "talk" underwater and show him how if you inflated your wet suit glove with air, you could talk into it and pass a message along to your dive buddy. It's not great, but it works if you don't have a dive slate and pencil with you. His comment? But if you talk into the glove, won't the words come out backwards when you put the glove to your dive buddy's head? He was serious and just couldn't get it no matter how much I tried. He insisted that the words would come out backwards. On a dive check out with this guy, I convince him that armadillos in Florida have claws so that they can grip the ground firmly. If they didn't have those claws, the centrifugal force of the earth would fling them into outer space. He bought that too. How this guy made so much money was beyond me. He had the common sense of a rock. Sometimes, you just shrugged your shoulders and walk away. |
| I've noticed the same thing. Some of the most successful people I've met seemed to have no sense whatsoever. I once worked with a guy who claimed that if your car tires got up to 160 degrees F. they would disintegrate. I'd like to see a July day in Phoenix where they're not that hot! |
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Quoted: ...who keeps on spouting "facts" about things he has no idea about, and in the process flaming people who have a much better idea than them and discrediting them. eg1 he says that .223 and 5.56mm rounds are COMPLETELY different, with .223 being at least 2x as fast as 5.56. eg2 he says shrapnel is easily as fast as 10,000 fps, and they shrapnel easily penetrates bulletproof vests. he once went so far as to say that it cant be in fps, since it is too slow, so it must be in mps. Even after numerous people called BS on him and proved him wrong, he refuses to STFU and continues to discredit people and spout off BS. PLEASE come and shut this bastard up. Him calling a 50mm artilley piece a 50 cal artillery piece and insisting its the same is really PISSING ME OFF! http://soldner.jowood.com/forum/showthread.php?s=a77df04dccaad8e9adfc536fefe64389&threadid=5067&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 Never argue with an idiot, they'll drag you down to thier level and beat you with experiance. Now that being said I'm off to argue with the idiot Actually that guy is too much of an idiot. Dude just post a link to the ammo oracle so he can lear of which he speaks. |
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Quoted: (snip) FWIW, Schrapnel is a slang term for fragmentation - and was named after something that predates me by a long ways, so is not really the correct word to use in this case. "Concussion" sounds like "Blast" (pressure wave produced by detonation). "Shrapnel" is named for its inventor, Lieutenant Henry Shrapnel, of the Royal Artillery of the British Army. It was introduced in 1803. See: [url]http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/shrap/[/url] |
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Ritual/ I havent shot a 30mm aor a 50cal in awhile ill shuttup about it for now. A sniper rifle has a range of 2000 yards or so. Im making an assumption that a 50 cal doesnt have a mile range. But 50 cal is just a caliber this has to do more with the gun. Im sure a select few armored tanks have some kick ass support, supressive weapons. And they probably have guns that can supress that far. A apache helicopters 30mm can hit you at a few kilometers. With its main gun. And its accurate to within the 3-5 foot range. This guy is an idiot. [rolleyes] |
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Quoted: Well someone has posted a very long post to shut him up...if he can reply to it, he is one ignorant arsehole. The thread looks like its gonna be locked soon anyway... "continues to the part where he says the Phalanx shoots at 10,000 fps because it is necessary to shoot at that high velocities to hit things 3 miles away. By his calculations and his expert knowledge of physics and maths, he has determined a bullet wont penetrate ur skin at a mile, as a bullet would lose 1000 fps every 1000 feet. REALLY!!!! 10,000 fps isn't possible with conventional guns using propellants. 7000 fps is pretty much the theoretical limit for projectiles pushed by gases. Thats why electromagnetic railguns were developed as there isn't a speed issue! he says shrapnel is easily as fast as 10,000 fps, and they shrapnel easily penetrates bulletproof vests. he once went so far as to say that it cant be in fps, since it is too slow, so it must be in mps. The fastest I have ever heard of Frag being sent off an explosion is around 5000 fps but most of this stuff slows down real quick as most frag isn't aerodynamic. The only exceptions would be HEAT and other shape-charges that focus most of the explosive energy in one directon, they can be much faster than 5000 fps. You need to take your friend to an EOD unit, he will bring great Comedy as his BS stories get picked apart in minute detail. |
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You've heard about teaching pigs to sing? My favorite from one of his ilk, many years ago: Muzzleloaders use black powder, everything else uses WHITE powder. And there's always: Bullets rise a little while after leaving the barrel, then they start to drop. (some folks just can't grasp geometry or physics). |
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Quoted: Quoted: Im 17 and very bored :) and the sheer stupidity of this guy astounds me...then again i havent visited the DU forums before... Sorry, I should have specified shrapnel from a standard US army grenade. The whole debate started when he said one US army grenade would kill anyone within a room, through shrapnel and concussion (body jellified) Your standard defensive M67 Frag grenade is filled with Comp B - I could not find the exact ingredients and specs for Comp B on any open-source web-page - so I will not divulge here - but suffice it to say that it is the primary ingredient in most shape charges and in the M18A1 Claymore mine, so it can clearly produce pretty impressive velocities. Comp B - (59.5% RDX, 39.5% TNT, 1% Wax), rate of detonation is approx. 24,000 fps!!! Its on the Web but takes some searching!! The M18A1 Claymore uses C-4!!!! |
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Idiots. Gotta love them. I worked part-time at a gas station when I was a freshman in college. A lady pulls in with the cord hanging out of her sidewalls like spaghetti. I nearly shit! "Uh...this is pretty unsafe, Ma'am! You've obviously been riding the curb when you park the car." She defensively replies that she's never parked next to any curbs that high. "Uh....Ma'am, the tire turns AROUND." |
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Quoted: Comp B - (59.5% RDX, 39.5% TNT, 1% Wax), rate of detonation is approx. 24,000 fps!!! Its on the Web but takes some searching!! The M18A1 Claymore uses C-4!!!! C-4 erhh yeah, I meant to say that - 1.5 lbs of C4. [B)] I had ben told comp B back when I was a young private - and, even with the info readily available, I am too stupid to look it up and realize I had been taught wrong. As for the components of Comp B - I have an FM 5-250 right here - I am just a bit leary of stating precise numbers, etc. from sources not readily available on the web - call me OPSEC paranoid, I've been called worse. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Im 17 and very bored :) and the sheer stupidity of this guy astounds me...then again i havent visited the DU forums before... Sorry, I should have specified shrapnel from a standard US army grenade. The whole debate started when he said one US army grenade would kill anyone within a room, through shrapnel and concussion (body jellified) Your standard defensive M67 Frag grenade is filled with Comp B - I could not find the exact ingredients and specs for Comp B on any open-source web-page - so I will not divulge here - but suffice it to say that it is the primary ingredient in most shape charges and in the M18A1 Claymore mine, so it can clearly produce pretty impressive velocities. The generally accepted lethal redius of the M67 Frag grenade is 5 meters. Many rooms fit within that, though many things can partially shield the effect of the blast and fragmentation. FWIW, Schrapnel is a slang term for fragmentation - and was named after something that predates me by a long ways, so is not really the correct word to use in this case. "Concussion" sounds like "Blast" (pressure wave produced by detonation). Composition B consists of castable mixtures of RDX and TNT; in some instances, desensitizing agents are added to the mixture. Composition B is used as a burster in Army projectiles and in rockets and land mines. Grenade Type M67 Range (m)40 Blast Radius (m)15 Fuse Length (s)5 Effect Length (s) High explosive fragmentation grenade The M67 Defensive Fragmentation Grenade is the standard hand grenade used by both the U.S. Military and various forces around the world. Its baseball-like shape was designed to aid in throwing the weapon. The weapon has a 5-second fuse upon triggering. Also known as HE (High Explosive) or Fragmentation (Frag) Grenades, these are the most common indirect weapon of attack among troops. Grenades have the military slang name of 'pineapples' due to the similarly-shaped WWII-era grenades, but even though the M67 no longer adopts this design, the name has since stuck. England and some other countries still keep the 'pineapple' design grenades. Counterterrorist teams only use these in situations wherein there are few to no civilians or hostages and are pinned down by enemy firepower. It is standard SOP for room clearing to toss in either a Flashbang or HE grenade in before entering, in order to stun or injure opponents hiding inside. Hope this clears up any questions, and from first hand experience with these. If you would be in a small room and well barricaded, it still would ring your bells from the blast and the concussion. Top USMC |
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Quoted: Quoted: Comp B - (59.5% RDX, 39.5% TNT, 1% Wax), rate of detonation is approx. 24,000 fps!!! Its on the Web but takes some searching!! The M18A1 Claymore uses C-4!!!! C-4 erhh yeah, I meant to say that - 1.5 lbs of C4. [B)] I had ben told comp B back when I was a young private - and, even with the info readily available, I am too stupid to look it up and realize I had been taught wrong. As for the components of Comp B - I have an FM 5-250 right here - I am just a bit leary of stating precise numbers, etc. from sources not readily available on the web - call me OPSEC paranoid, I've been called worse. The compositions of explosives aren't too much of big deal, most of which were discovered over 50 years ago and have been in the public domain for along time plus you need some good chemistry skills and the proper facility to make some of these explosives with any chance of survival. The detonation velocity isn't a big deal either, brissance is better indicator of shattering power! Now the formula's used for breaching bridges, cutting charges, are a whole different story. |
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"well the reason we have 120mm guns in the first place is becuase they can deal much more damage. They are better at penetrating concrete walls or bunkers. It has alot more [b]perpetual motion[/b] then a smaller round and is not liekly to slow down fast. " WOW! perpetual motion rounds! They never stop! [ROFL2] |