Posted: 10/13/2009 7:03:19 PM EDT
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Suppose a fellow comes to your PD to interview for an opening for a new officer. During the interview, he is asked if he can work any day of the week. He states that he keeps the sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), but would like an accommodation based on his religious beliefs, and would gladly swap shifts with other guys.
Can he be hired for LEO? |
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Suppose a fellow comes to your PD to interview for an opening for a new officer. During the interview, he is asked if he can work any day of the week. He states that he keeps the sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), but would like an accommodation based on his religious beliefs, and would gladly swap shifts with other guys. Can he be hired for LEO? Yes he can be hired, but I doubt he would. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Suppose a fellow comes to your PD to interview for an opening for a new officer. During the interview, he is asked if he can work any day of the week. He states that he keeps the sabbath (Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), but would like an accommodation based on his religious beliefs, and would gladly swap shifts with other guys. Can he be hired for LEO? Yes he can be hired, but I doubt he would. This. His best bet would be to seek work in a town with a larger Jewish population. |
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Not sure about the floodgate... the EOE laws say that employers must allow reasonable accommodation for sincere religious beliefs. And his days off are more than enough for the person to observe he religious leanings. Switching days is tough and to keep that up for years probably wouldn't happen. Due to LEO work being a 24/7 365 deal, and with mandatory staffing levels a person would lose in court. I'm sure their are some cases out there like this. |
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He can ask for it, but that's about as far as it will go. Yup. Nobody says he has to be hired. With all due respect to religious beliefs, sincere or pasta-related, it's generally better form to wait until one actually has a job before one starts jockeying time off. |
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Not sure about the floodgate... the EOE laws say that employers must allow reasonable accommodation for sincere religious beliefs. I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he has told me that I must only work Tuesday and Wednesday. Hey me too! Maybe I'll see you at church on our most holy day, February 31!
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Not sure about the floodgate... the EOE laws say that employers must allow reasonable accommodation for sincere religious beliefs. I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he has told me that I must only work Tuesday and Wednesday. Hey me too! Maybe I'll see you at church on our most holy day, February 31! ![]() Hey guys, I'm interested in this particular flavor of religion. May I join?
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Not sure about the floodgate... the EOE laws say that employers must allow reasonable accommodation for sincere religious beliefs. I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he has told me that I must only work Tuesday and Wednesday. Hey me too! Maybe I'll see you at church on our most holy day, February 31! ![]() Hey guys, I'm interested in this particular flavor of religion. May I join? ![]() I'll start the Colorado Chapter... the wifey just made homemade spaghetti and sauce last night, too!!!! |
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Not sure about the floodgate... the EOE laws say that employers must allow reasonable accommodation for sincere religious beliefs. I worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster and he has told me that I must only work Tuesday and Wednesday. Hey me too! Maybe I'll see you at church on our most holy day, February 31! ![]() Hey guys, I'm interested in this particular flavor of religion. May I join? ![]() I'll start the Colorado Chapter... the wifey just made homemade spaghetti and sauce last night, too!!!! Dibs on the Virginia chapter. I have a stale can of spaghetti-o's in my desk as my emergency lunch in case I forget to pack and don't get time to run out. |
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We had a guy with just the bare minimum time on ask to apply to our gang unit with this very same question. It was not well received, luckily his wife nixed the idea for him (I guess the hours were to rough for her). It's just a fact of life, gangsters really, really like Fridays and Saturdays.
In over 5 years I have had no Thanksgivings off, no Halloweens, no Christmas Eves and 1 Christmas day. And I have worked a specialized unit for over a year. Them's the breaks, you gotta deal with it. LABlackRifle |
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Cool! I get to use this pic again! http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l23/Big_Iron_163/vortexwall1.jpg On a serious note, Law Enforcement, like EMS and Fire Services, is a 24/7 job. Sometimes you have to work on your holy days. That's just the way it is. Again? You gotta be shitting me that a situation called for this picture before
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As a firefighter, I work every third day, regardless of holidays. Our vacation scheduling is based on seniority so I can count on being able to get Christmas or Thanksgiving off in about 20 years. Now, I can schedule a shift swap, but very few guys will work willingly on those days. It is unfair, and more importantly 'unreasonable' to expect to get a certain day off every week, even based on religious preference. I don't even know if in a Jewish community they would hire you because SOMEBODY has to work on Sabbath. I was raised that Sunday was a day of rest, but I'm sure God understands that I work an essential service and that working on Sundays doesn't effect my relationship with him. |
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I'd say if other than his unrealistic request...the department offers him a job but specifically states they cannot honor his request, and its his decision if he wants to work there or not.....no one forces you to be a cop! Besides if I gotta work Christmas, you gotta work the sabath! |
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I'd say if other than his unrealistic request...the department offers him a job but specifically states they cannot honor his request, and its his decision if he wants to work there or not.....no one forces you to be a cop! Besides if I gotta work Christmas, you gotta work the sabath! Forget Christmas, I usually take vacation/PTO during THANKSGIVING, now there's a holiday(not religiously based) that I have a hard time missing. And the week after i have a hard time moving, sitting, and other releated exercise due to my enlarged food holder. Having set days off(tues & weds) and working 5 days a week i am able to find enough people to switch shifts/days if the need arise. |
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Observance of religious holidays does not equate to being off that day.
Most (big) departments have provisions in their contracts to allow employees to attend religious services and union meetings during their shift. If you need an hour to go to church or to a PBA / FOP meeting, it is generally provided for. Many departments also provide for people taking college classes. Now, if you can't drive a car that day or something, I don't know, because that's not a service or meeting. And you sign off on the uniform requirement when you're hired, guaranteed, so religious garb is out. Now, tell me you need an hour to go to church every time you're on Sunday daywork, and I catch you not AT church ... |
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On a serious note, Law Enforcement, like EMS and Fire Services, is a 24/7 job. Sometimes you have to work on your holy days. That's just the way it is. Ha, yeah...no. You just have to be in the bigger places with a wider employee base. I worked NYC EMS for four years and there were plenty of Sabbath observers that regularly had Fr/Sat off. Wore yarmulkes on duty. We even had Orthodox Jews as well with beards. we even had a Rastafarian in my station that again, had a beard and dreadlocks down to his ass. His cap that he stuffed his hair in was hunter green to match our uniform. |
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Quoted: Observance of religious holidays does not equate to being off that day. Most (big) departments have provisions in their contracts to allow employees to attend religious services and union meetings during their shift. If you need an hour to go to church or to a PBA / FOP meeting, it is generally provided for. Many departments also provide for people taking college classes. Now, if you can't drive a car that day or something, I don't know, because that's not a service or meeting. And you sign off on the uniform requirement when you're hired, guaranteed, so religious garb is out. Now, tell me you need an hour to go to church every time you're on Sunday daywork, and I catch you not AT church ... This may be common 'up north', but I have never heard of anything like that here in Texas or anywhere else nearby. And personally I think what you are describing is absurd. The taxpayers pay us (public servants) to provide whatever service (Fire, PD, EMS) while we are on duty. Paying employees to go to church/class/union meetings is silly and a waste of taxpayer funds. Even if they aren't being paid its silly. If I want off during my scheduled shift to go to class or church, or for any other reason, I must either use vacation time (subject to staffing) or find someone to swap shifts with me. If you have a certain day you want off, fine. Use the vacation/shift swap mechanisms in place to achieve that. Otherwise you are expected to be at work during your assigned shift doing work related duties. It would be unreasonable to expect non-Jews to work EVERY Friday just as it would be unreasonable for me as a Christian to expect to automatically get all Christian Holidays off. If someone is so strict in their beliefs that they could NEVER work on Sabbath or Sundays, then they should choose a job that allows them that practice instead of expecting everyone else to conform to them. |
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On a serious note, Law Enforcement, like EMS and Fire Services, is a 24/7 job. Sometimes you have to work on your holy days. That's just the way it is. Ha, yeah...no. You just have to be in the bigger places with a wider employee base. I worked NYC EMS for four years and there were plenty of Sabbath observers that regularly had Fr/Sat off. Wore yarmulkes on duty. We even had Orthodox Jews as well with beards. we even had a Rastafarian in my station that again, had a beard and dreadlocks down to his ass. His cap that he stuffed his hair in was hunter green to match our uniform. Thats NYC. The rest of the free world shouldn't expect that. |
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from the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
Religious Discrimination Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of l964 prohibits employers from discriminating against individuals because of their religion in hiring, firing, and other terms and conditions of employment. Title VII covers employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government. Under Title VII: Employers may not treat employees or applicants more or less favorably because of their religious beliefs or practices - except to the extent a religious accommodation is warranted. For example, an employer may not refuse to hire individuals of a certain religion, may not impose stricter promotion requirements for persons of a certain religion, and may not impose more or different work requirements on an employee because of that employee's religious beliefs or practices. Employees cannot be forced to participate –– or not participate –– in a religious activity as a condition of employment. Employers must reasonably accommodate employees' sincerely held religious practices unless doing so would impose an undue hardship on the employer. A reasonable religious accommodation is any adjustment to the work environment that will allow the employee to practice his religion. An employer might accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices by allowing: flexible scheduling, voluntary substitutions or swaps, job reassignments and lateral transfers, modification of grooming requirements and other workplace practices, policies and/or procedures. An employer is not required to accommodate an employee's religious beliefs and practices if doing so would impose an undue hardship on the employers' legitimate business interests. An employer can show undue hardship if accommodating an employee's religious practices requires more than ordinary administrative costs, diminishes efficiency in other jobs, infringes on other employees' job rights or benefits, impairs workplace safety, causes co-workers to carry the accommodated employee's share of potentially hazardous or burdensome work, or if the proposed accommodation conflicts with another law or regulation. Employers must permit employees to engage in religious expression, unless the religious expression would impose an undue hardship on the employer. Generally, an employer may not place more restrictions on religious expression than on other forms of expression that have a comparable effect on workplace efficiency. Employers must take steps to prevent religious harassment of their employees. An employer can reduce the chance that employees will engage unlawful religious harassment by implementing an anti-harassment policy and having an effective procedure for reporting, investigating and correcting harassing conduct. It is also unlawful to retaliate against an individual for opposing employment practices that discriminate based on religion or for filing a discrimination charge, testifying, or participating in any way in an investigation, proceeding, or litigation under Title VII. Statistics In Fiscal Year 2008, EEOC received 3,273 charges of religious discrimination. EEOC resolved 2,727 religious discrimination charges and recovered $7.5 million in monetary benefits for charging parties and other aggrieved individuals (not including monetary benefits obtained through litigation). Charge Statistics: Religious Discrimination |
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On a serious note, Law Enforcement, like EMS and Fire Services, is a 24/7 job. Sometimes you have to work on your holy days. That's just the way it is. Ha, yeah...no. You just have to be in the bigger places with a wider employee base. I worked NYC EMS for four years and there were plenty of Sabbath observers that regularly had Fr/Sat off. Wore yarmulkes on duty. We even had Orthodox Jews as well with beards. we even had a Rastafarian in my station that again, had a beard and dreadlocks down to his ass. His cap that he stuffed his hair in was hunter green to match our uniform. Thats NYC. The rest of the free world shouldn't expect that. Most don't. Until the lawyers start showing up. Then they fall in line. ACLU of Arizona Files Lawsuit to Protect Religious Liberty of Former MCSO Officer
For Immediate Release: Friday, May 29, 2009 Contact: Alessandra Soler Meetze at 602-418-5499 (cell)/602-650-1854 (office) PHOENIX, AZ – The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Arizona today filed a lawsuit on behalf of a former Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office (MCSO) detention officer who was demoted and eventually forced to leave for being a practicing Muslim. “Sheriff Arpaio’s prejudices extend beyond the streets of Maricopa County and into the workplace,” said ACLU of Arizona Legal Director Dan Pochoda. “In this case he discriminated against a committed, qualified employee based simply on his religious beliefs in clear violation of both state and federal laws that safeguard religious expression.” The lawsuit, filed on behalf of 34-year-old Sinan Fazlovic, charges that Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio violated his religious beliefs by forcing him to shave his beard in order to work as a detention officer. Fazlovic, who has worn a full beard in accordance with his Muslim faith for most of his adult life, accepted a job as an MSCO detention officer in May 2005, only after he was assured that he could keep his beard. It wasn’t until an encounter with Sheriff Arpaio during detention officer training that things changed. Soon after he met Arpaio, Fazlovic was told by his superiors that he would have to shave his beard if he wanted to keep his job. Fazlovic explained he’d be unable to do so because he was a practicing Muslim and was hired with that understanding. Ultimately, MCSO re-assigned him to a clerical position and then slashed his pay 33% – a hardship that he endured for 37 months, despite having to support his wife and three children, ages 6, 2, and 9 months. Other non-Muslim employees deemed unsuited for detention officer work in the jails by MCSO were found comparable work and pay. Despite repeated requests and being qualified for other positions, the MCSO under the direction of Sheriff Arpaio failed to find such accommodation for Fazlovic as required by federal and state constitutional provisions and statutes. “In the United States, no one should be denied the right to keep a job and support their families because of their religion,” said Fazlovic, who is originally from Bosnia and has been living in Phoenix for ten years. “I came to this country with great hopes and dreams; convinced this is where you can practice your religion freely. Unfortunately, MCSO forced me to pick between my religion and my existence, which is my employment. This caused me and my family tremendous suffering,” added Fazlovic, who is working to receive his bachelor’s degree in criminal justice from ASU and plans to become a probation officer upon graduating. MCSO deputies later claimed Fazlovic could not perform his job duties as a detention officer because he couldn’t properly wear a special breathing mask during emergencies. However, in 1998 the Occupational Safety and Health Administration – the main federal agency charged with the enforcement of safety and health in the workplace – found that persons with beards could meet the standards and that alternative masks were available for persons with beards. Fazlovic submitted numerous written requests to demonstrate this and for transfers to a detention position where there was little need for a mask, but all were denied. Because of the intolerable work conditions, loss of pay and failure of Sheriff Arpaio to protect his religious beliefs as required by law, Fazlovic had no choice but to resign. This case is being brought under the First and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution, the Free Exercise Clause of the Arizona State Constitution, and the Arizona Free Exercise of Religion Act, which prohibit government authorities from unreasonably burdening an individual’s right to free expression of his or her religion. In addition, Fazlovic is arguing that MCSO violated Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by discriminating against him on the basis of religion and failing to accommodate his religious beliefs in the terms and conditions of his employment, and by punishing him for filing formal grievances against MCSO. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission previously found that that there was good cause for these complaints after hearing from both sides. “There is simply no place for this type of religious intolerance in any workplace in Maricopa County,” said Daniel Bonnett, of the Phoenix law firm of Martin & Bonnett, who has agreed to volunteer as an attorney with the ACLU of Arizona in representing Fazlovic in this matter. “MCSO forced him to choose between his religion and his job without justification, causing him extreme humiliation and anguish. For Sinan, his beard is an integral part of his religious identity, just like a yarmulke is for Jewish men or a hijab is for Muslim women.” Fazlovic seeks compensatory and punitive damages. In addition to Pochoda, he is represented by Daniel Bonnett and Theresa Seifert of the firm of Martin & Bonnett. Sinan Fazlovic will be available between 10:30am and noon today at the ACLU office. RAMAPO - A newly hired town police officer has been given Friday nights to Saturday evenings off to accommodate her religious beliefs. The special work schedule afforded Officer Baile J. Glauber has raised concerns among other officers, said Officer Dennis Procter, the department's Police Benevolent Association president.
"I hope the town is not going to give special treatment to one individual for religious observances and not give other officers the same opportunities," Procter said. "We all can't always make temple or church or spend weekends with our families." Glauber, an ultra-Orthodox Jew who married under the Hasidic beliefs, graduated last month from the Rockland Police Academy. She completed the six months of physical training and educational classes to become a police officer. She asked for the Sabbath off. A memo dated June 27 to Glauber from Police Chief Peter Brower states, "I have been advised by the Town Attorney, Mike Klein, to modify your current work schedule in order to permit you to maintain the Sabbath Observances." Brower assigned Glauber to work Sunday to Thursday on the 4 p.m. to midnight shift, which began June 29. She is still a probationary officer and undergoing field training with a more experienced officer. However, the Brower memo states Glauber can be called into work from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown in an emergency, like any other officer. Klein said Friday that he spoke to Brower about changing Glauber's schedule after the officer requested those days off. He said Glauber is the town's first ultra-Orthodox Jewish officer and her request for religious days off is the first he's come across in 25 years with the town. The county's other Hasidic officer, Shlomo Koenig, is a detective for the Rockland Sheriff's Department, but did not work the Sabbath when he started. Klein said Glauber's schedule is temporary and contingent on his research of the constitutional issues. He said there were court cases involving employers respecting a person's religious rights, including issues of working on the Sabbath. He said the town was also seeking an opinion from the state Attorney General's Office. "We have to balance her religious rights with the job of a police officer to respond at all times," Klein said. "We'll be researching the issue and reporting back to the town and police department." The Ramapo Police Commission, which comprises the Town Board, will discuss the issue, along with the PBA, Klein said. Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence, who supported Glauber's hiring, said he had no problems with her work schedule. He said he had no problem making reasonable accommodations for people based on their religious beliefs. "I think we would make accommodation for Christians and anyone else," he said. The PBA's role is to defend their members from discriminatory practices and work violations, Procter said, so the Glauber issue is rather sensitive. Procter said the town PBA was going to meet with St. Lawrence to discuss several issues, including Glauber's work schedule. Glauber, who is divorced and has a child, was nominated for hiring in February by the Town Board. She had worked for the Sheriff's Department Traffic Safety Board before becoming a Ramapo police officer.She graduated in June 2007 from Rockland Community College. Glauber could not be reached for comment. She had declined to discuss her background and the police academy training after the June graduation ceremony. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Observance of religious holidays does not equate to being off that day. Most (big) departments have provisions in their contracts to allow employees to attend religious services and union meetings during their shift. If you need an hour to go to church or to a PBA / FOP meeting, it is generally provided for. Many departments also provide for people taking college classes. Now, if you can't drive a car that day or something, I don't know, because that's not a service or meeting. And you sign off on the uniform requirement when you're hired, guaranteed, so religious garb is out. Now, tell me you need an hour to go to church every time you're on Sunday daywork, and I catch you not AT church ... This may be common 'up north', but I have never heard of anything like that here in Texas or anywhere else nearby. And personally I think what you are describing is absurd. The taxpayers pay us (public servants employees) to provide whatever service (Fire, PD, EMS) while we are on duty. Paying employees to go to church/class/union meetings is silly and a waste of taxpayer funds. Even if they aren't being paid its silly. If I want off during my scheduled shift to go to class or church, or for any other reason, I must either use vacation time (subject to staffing) or find someone to swap shifts with me. If you have a certain day you want off, fine. Use the vacation/shift swap mechanisms in place to achieve that. Otherwise you are expected to be at work during your assigned shift doing work related duties. It would be unreasonable to expect non-Jews to work EVERY Friday just as it would be unreasonable for me as a Christian to expect to automatically get all Christian Holidays off. If someone is so strict in their beliefs that they could NEVER work on Sabbath or Sundays, then they should choose a job that allows them that practice instead of expecting everyone else to conform to them. Fixed it for you... |
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Observance of religious holidays does not equate to being off that day. Most (big) departments have provisions in their contracts to allow employees to attend religious services and union meetings during their shift. If you need an hour to go to church or to a PBA / FOP meeting, it is generally provided for. Many departments also provide for people taking college classes. Now, if you can't drive a car that day or something, I don't know, because that's not a service or meeting. And you sign off on the uniform requirement when you're hired, guaranteed, so religious garb is out. Now, tell me you need an hour to go to church every time you're on Sunday daywork, and I catch you not AT church ... This may be common 'up north', but I have never heard of anything like that here in Texas or anywhere else nearby. And personally I think what you are describing is absurd. The taxpayers pay us (public servants) to provide whatever service (Fire, PD, EMS) while we are on duty. Paying employees to go to church/class/union meetings is silly and a waste of taxpayer funds. Even if they aren't being paid its silly. If I want off during my scheduled shift to go to class or church, or for any other reason, I must either use vacation time (subject to staffing) or find someone to swap shifts with me. If you have a certain day you want off, fine. Use the vacation/shift swap mechanisms in place to achieve that. Otherwise you are expected to be at work during your assigned shift doing work related duties. It would be unreasonable to expect non-Jews to work EVERY Friday just as it would be unreasonable for me as a Christian to expect to automatically get all Christian Holidays off. If someone is so strict in their beliefs that they could NEVER work on Sabbath or Sundays, then they should choose a job that allows them that practice instead of expecting everyone else to conform to them. Like I said, observance of religious holidays does not equate to being off that day. It's just not that disruptive to permit someone an hour during their shift to go to church - partly because Sunday daywork is pretty slow in most places, and partly because hardly anyone ever actually takes it. Most of the troops just aren't that religious, and the ones that are generally prefer to go with their families. (And you'd be a slave-driver not to let someone go by their church on Easter or Christmas, IMO.) Time to attend night-school college classes is normally covered with vacation time - the accomodation is the simple agreement to allow you to use the time. But as you are "Retired JBT," I am sure you've heard of outfits allowing an hour at the end of shift for PT, or shift time allotted for practicing at the range (especially SWAT guys). I imagine the thinking is that it's good for the organization because you get an improved employee. That could also be said about college classes (as well as church services IMO.) NONE of this equates to wearing goofy costumes or other unreasonable demands, and like anything else it is all dependent on available manpower. And I know that you know this: Either it's in the contract, or it isn't. What anyone thinks of it is irrelevant. The hunters all wanting the same days off during hunting season is actually a bigger problem |
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The policeman stood and faced his God,
Which must always come to pass. He hoped his shoes were shining. Just as brightly as his brass. "Step forward now, policeman. How shall I deal with you? Have you always turned the other cheek? To My church have you been true?" The policeman squared his shoulders and said, "No, Lord, I guess I ain't, Because those of us who carry badges can't always be a saint. I've had to work most Sundays, and at times my talk was rough, and sometimes I've been violent, Because the streets are awfully tough. But I never took a penny, That wasn't mine to keep.... Though I worked a lot of overtime When the bills got just too steep. And I never passed a cry for help, Though at times I shook with fear. And sometimes, God forgive me, I've wept unmanly tears. I know I don't deserve a place Among the people here. They never wanted me around Except to calm their fear. If you've a place for me here, Lord, It needn't be so grand. I never expected or had too much, But if you don't.....I'll understand. There was silence all around the throne Where the saints had often trod. As the policeman waited quietly, For the judgment of his God. "Step forward now, policeman, You've borne your burdens well. Come walk a beat on Heaven's streets, You've done your time in hell." |
