User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 1:01:52 AM EST
[#1]
Great triggers are a joy to use. Consistent triggers are important. But honestly, it is more about the gun and the shooter. A great trigger is not going to turn a 2MOA barrel into a shooter.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 1:14:02 AM EST
[#2]
Read up about bench rest rifles.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 2:18:59 AM EST
[#3]
? Basically what he said.
You sound like your into accuracy if sub-MOA matters to you. I don't hunt. My joy is to shoot 5 shots into 1/2" or better at 100 yards. You've got to decide what you really want. Is 3 shots in 1" really what you want? Or is that just a start and you'd really like tighter groups then that eventually as you spend more time at the range? If you're really into target shooting you're going to want a crisp pulling 1Lb trigger or less. But it's not going to do you any good putting lipstick on a pig! I had a Remington 700 gunsmithed with a new barrel into shooting 5 shot 1/4" MOA groups. I didn't want to ever shoot another stock rifle after that and sold them all off! And if you're into accuracy, it will help to handload ammo too. If you want an accurate target gun, there's too much to post. It's like asking "What do I need to do to make a race car?" See if you can talk to a good smith who can guide you with what rifle to start with that is worth rebarreling and installing a new trigger. You can always play with it first, and then decide to have your smith turn it into a sub 1/2" shooter for you when you're ready. At that time you can also sell your like new barrel in the classifieds to help you pay for your new Bartlein, Brux, Pac-Nor, or Krieger barrel. Pac-Nor will do the whole custom smith job for you wjile installing their barrel! Rugers use to have reputations as being pigs for accuracy. My smith refused to work on them. But yea, if you're only looking for 1" MOA, then maybe a Ruger can do that for you. Talk to a smith for recommendations. If it's accuracy you want, a good smith is NOT going to recommend crap guns that don't have potential. I have 3 custom barreled and smithed Rem 700's. I chose the cartridge I wanted, and ordered barrels and reamers with the twist, runout, neck tension, etc. All shoot sub 1/2" with 6x-24x scopes and 1lb triggers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 3:25:15 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Read up about bench rest rifles. This. Triggers in the benchrest world are measured in ounces. 2 ounce triggers are common. Several of the techniques used to achieve repeatable accuracy in benchrest shooting can be applied when fine tuning a hunting rifle and the ammo used for it. Start here https://forum.accurateshooter.com/ Warning, it is a deep rabbit hole. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:26:21 AM EST
[#5]
2.5lbs or less is my sweet spot. I’m like you, I need a lighter trigger since I’m still learning the long range game and don’t get to shoot as much as I’d like.
Once I start getting in a rhythm or when I’m able to shoot a few weekends in a row, it makes much less difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:36:17 AM EST
[#6]
The most consistently small groups I can shoot happen to be with a gun that has a 1lb trigger. It's not the only reason, or even the biggest reason why, but it is definitely a contributing factor.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:39:28 AM EST
[#7]
my sweet spot is also about 2.5-3lbs
in my experience to shoot a rifle with a heavier trigger well the rifle itself needs to be heavier also. A few years ago I bought a Howa Bravo and from the factory the trigger was around 4.5ish pounds adjusted as light as it would go while the rifle itself was relatively light, groups were barely under MOA. I changed the trigger spring in the trigger pack because it was way heavier than it needed to be, brought my groups down to just over half MOA. The harmonics of the barrel on it were weird too, I spent probably 3 months working up hand loads for it and they were still just over half MOA until I added a muzzle brake. After adding a brake it shrunk groups under half MOA, something to consider. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:56:54 AM EST
[#8]
For bench shooting I suppose I’d prefer something really crisp and around 1-1.25 pounds. For all around hunting use if I could snap my fingers and make all my bolt guns exactly 28 ounces I would. Most of them are already close to that.
But to be completely honest lately I am more and more interested in improvised field shooting positions (prone, sitting behind tripod, seated cross legged, and whatever else terrain dictates) and most of that I do with an AR because 5.56 and 6.8 is more economical than bigger calibers. And I have never felt handicapped with the ~3# triggers I have in a couple of ARs. And while my AR triggers are consistent, they aren’t as crisp as single stage bolt guns. But still, it’s no hindrance. A decently crisp 3# trigger, even the better single stage AR triggers that by design have some creep left in them, is infinitely better than the typical 5-7# stock gritty AR trigger, hands down, but as you go lighter/crisper from there, you see diminishing returns, IMO. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:58:04 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great triggers are a joy to use. Consistent triggers are important. But honestly, it is more about the gun and the shooter. A great trigger is not going to turn a 2MOA barrel into a shooter. This. I use SSAs & fellow shooter complain about the 2 stage & “too heavy” vs SSA/E which I find too light. On a good day, with Black Hills or my handloads, sub MOA are the result of consistency & practice, not so much a light trigger. Stoning, as in polishing the sear interface with 800 or 1000 grit stones while not changing geometry, was what I used to do first, but that didn’t fix creep. Some metal treatments are only a few thou deep, so caveat emptor. Going nuts over-polishing or screwing up the heat treatment/geometry can ruin a trigger, which was why I switched to aftermarket triggers in my ARs. My Tikkas are adjustable & damn good triggers. I don’t know enough about Ruger triggers & if polishing is an option? To answer the question of lightness/poundage—not as important as a consistent trigger, practice & good ammo & practice, preferably with someone who can provide meaningful feedback on your technique & ability to call your own shots. ETA: as noted already: what is YOUR GOAL with this rifle? Adding a benchrest trigger measured in ounces isn’t a good idea for hunting or long distancing shooting, IMO, unless it’s going to be converted into a benchrest rifle. Then, you’re at a disadvantage due to most benchrest rifles being custom-built, not COTS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:00:59 AM EST
[#10]
I disagree. Super light triggers in anything except a BR gun are a crutch and a cope for shitty trigger control way more than they are necessary.
And they're often pretty fucking dangerous too. A super nice trigger does not have to be a super light trigger. Two different things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:16:37 AM EST
[#11]
Have a Jewell on a 700 , don't recall the exact setting but it's light. Have to be very careful with trigger discipline.
The 700 was built by a GS , receiver and bolt are the only thing original . |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:46:47 AM EST
[#12]
In addition, I built my ar-10 as a bench gun. I started with a Larue MBT-2, but it had a tiny hitch right at the break that made it hard to shoot groups.
I swapped to a well worn in CMC single stage cartridge trigger and it’s so much better. 2-2.25lbs on the pull. Shooting 308 was getting expensive, so I’m putting together a bull barrel 223/556 gas gun. I picked up a TriggerTech Diamond adjustable single stage. Range is 1.5-4lbs. I’m really excited and will probably start at 2lbs. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:55:22 AM EST
[#13]
Trigger weight is hardly important at all for precision accuracy. Consistency is the biggest factor.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:56:27 AM EST
[#14]
Quoted: It took a lot of effort and concentration to squeeze through the entire pull and keep the reticle on target. Then there's something wrong with how you pull the trigger. Look at your trigger hand. Does your thumb cross to the other side of the rifle? Lay it on the top of the stock. How is the grip? It needs to be firm, neither tight nor loose. What part of your trigger finger is on the trigger? It should be the pad, not the fingertip or joint. Does your trigger finger touch the stock during the squeeze? It should never. There needs to be enough space between your finger and the stock that you could put a pencil in there vertically. When you squeeze the trigger, do you feel either side of the trigger pushing into your finger? You need to squeeze straight back; if you feel the edge of the trigger you're not doing that. How do you squeeze the trigger? You should take up slack, and once you hit the wall, slowly increase pressure until the rifle goes off. What happens after the rifle goes off? You need to hold the trigger back until everything settles down again after recoil. Might help to have someone watch you and see what's going on, or record yourself. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 9:00:14 AM EST
[#15]
Quoted: I've tried shooting groups with the factory trigger weight on my new Ruger American (which I think comes set at about 3.5 to 4 pounds). It took a lot of effort and concentration to squeeze through the entire pull and keep the reticle on target. I know there are people who can shoot heavier triggers really well, assuming the gun, ammo, rest, and all the other factors are good. But I can't. I think anything north of 2 pounds really throws me off when trying to shoot small groups. For those of you who do shoot sub-moa groups "all day", what's your trigger weight, and can you achieve those groups with a heavier trigger, everything else being equal? High power shooters run 4.5lb triggers and shoot lights out. Light triggers can be more accurate, but you can accurate without them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 9:08:03 AM EST
[#16]
Decades of competition across many disciplines have proven a few things
1 it’s possible to shoot good groups with a heavy trigger, but it’s easier with lighter triggers 2 heavy is safer If you’re struggling with a heavy trigger, work on it and improve your skill. If you are learning on a light trigger, you’re prob developing bad habits. I like about a 1-1.5 lb trigger in PRS guns. But I learned on 4.5 lb triggers in CMP service rifle |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 9:13:39 AM EST
[#17]
To answer questions about intended use, I want to be able to shoot around 1 inch groups at 100 yards off the bench. This will eventually be used as a varmint gun. I have a nice Savage .204 that shoots well with factory ammo, but I wanted something in .223 because the .204 is harder to find.
I guess my expectations for accuracy for an off the shelf gun are maybe unrealistic. I will say that lightening the trigger on my Savage MkII FVSR .22lr made a big difference for my group size with that gun. I'll tell you what though. I read a lot on here about people who are shooting sub MOA groups from their off the shelf rifles. And I also read a lot on here about people that say most guns are capable, and that it's a lack of skill on the part of the shooter. To me, it's the not knowing and second-guessing that drives me up the wall. Do I just suck, does the rifle suck, is the scope bad, does the ammo suck? I'd love to have a known good sub MOA rifle/scope/ammo combo and if I can't shoot that well, at least I know I can work on improving my skills. But the trouble is that there are so many potential causes for a breakdown in accuracy, if it isn't a lack of skill, narrowing down the problem takes a lot of expensive trips to the range. So, I'm starting with the trigger. Once it is comfortably light to shoot easily, then I'll try different ammo. I also decided that I shoot better off a bipod or bag than a front rest. Or at least, my sight picture seems more stable that way. But I wish there was some way to know if I just have a lemon before investing the time and fuel and ammo into figuring it out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 9:40:35 AM EST
[#18]
I'm a trigger snob, there, I admitted it. I just got a CZ 452 American .22lr. The trigger is so light my Lyman digital trigger pull gauge can't even register it. I cocked it and smacked the stock around, it never tripped the sear, so I'm happy with it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 10:13:28 AM EST
[#19]
Depends on the gun. In my experience, exceptionally light triggers are less robust and reliable in the AR platform. I lean towards 3-3.5 over lighter weights to ensure reliable reset when the engagement surfaces are dirty/dry. My use case is action rifle shooting and hunting.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 10:25:45 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To answer questions about intended use, I want to be able to shoot around 1 inch groups at 100 yards off the bench. This will eventually be used as a varmint gun. I have a nice Savage .204 that shoots well with factory ammo, but I wanted something in .223 because the .204 is harder to find. I guess my expectations for accuracy for an off the shelf gun are maybe unrealistic. I will say that lightening the trigger on my Savage MkII FVSR .22lr made a big difference for my group size with that gun. I'll tell you what though. I read a lot on here about people who are shooting sub MOA groups from their off the shelf rifles. And I also read a lot on here about people that say most guns are capable, and that it's a lack of skill on the part of the shooter. To me, it's the not knowing and second-guessing that drives me up the wall. Do I just suck, does the rifle suck, is the scope bad, does the ammo suck? I'd love to have a known good sub MOA rifle/scope/ammo combo and if I can't shoot that well, at least I know I can work on improving my skills. But the trouble is that there are so many potential causes for a breakdown in accuracy, if it isn't a lack of skill, narrowing down the problem takes a lot of expensive trips to the range. So, I'm starting with the trigger. Once it is comfortably light to shoot easily, then I'll try different ammo. I also decided that I shoot better off a bipod or bag than a front rest. Or at least, my sight picture seems more stable that way. But I wish there was some way to know if I just have a lemon before investing the time and fuel and ammo into figuring it out. Most reputable brand bolt action rifles now will be capable of MOA/Sub-MOA accuracy with match ammo. I have a $150 Savage Axis .223 with a cheap Bushnell scope that will hold a 0.7” group at 100y with handloads, and the only thing I’ve done to upgrade it was swap the terrible factory ChinaMart rings with some basic steel Weaver rings. I don’t think a “light” trigger needs to be a factor in buying a rifle for precision shooting, it’s much more important that it should be smooth, clean and predictable but it doesn’t need to have an extremely light break. I think a lot of people try to use lighter triggers to overcome training issues and that doesn’t make things better. I would tell you to buy the rifle you like and spend good money on quality glass and rings… and then mount the scope properly by making sure the eye relief is correct, the screws are evenly tightened to the correct torque, and the scope is perfectly leveled. For target-only rifles I like fixed power SWFA SS scopes personally, but I will say that I’ve also been impressed with the quality of my variable Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP for the price ($350-400). Your rifle will not “like” every type of match load so buy a few boxes of several types and shoot them all for groups to see which one performs the best. Using a rear squeeze bag in conjunction with a bipod or front rest will make an enormous difference in stability whenever you shoot from a bench. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 12:58:38 PM EST
[#21]
A good trigger in any gun is a necessity - pull weights might vary according to purpose; target, self-defense, hunting, plinking, etc. I never thought much about it until I built a lower with a DPMS fire-control group. This was for a 16" HBAR upper with a 4X ACOG - that was when I realized I really needed a trigger, so I got an ALG-ACT. That was great and solved the problem of a long, crunchy take-up and a hard let-off. I was then able to zero it with no problem.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 1:00:42 PM EST
[#22]
Trigger weight is less important to me than a consistent smooth pull. I'd say 4 lbs is fine if it's like a glass rod when it fires.
People often think a lighter trigger is what you need for accuracy, and it can help, but you shouldn't only fix on that. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 1:02:55 PM EST
[#23]
My competition triggers are 2oz hunting rifles 1lb with zero take up.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 1:10:51 PM EST
[#24]
Practice more
I have a 1984 vintage Steyr AUG that has been my main shooter for almost 30 years. Even with the original 10-12 pound military trigger and 1.5x optic, I was able to regularly shoot 1.25-1.5 moa 10 round groups with match ammo. I was easily out shooting others with tricked out ARs with super light triggers and fancy optics because I knew the gun and the trigger so well. I switched the trigger springs to the new 6lb version when Steyr released them. My groups improved by maybe .25" |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 3:47:05 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most reputable brand bolt action rifles now will be capable of MOA/Sub-MOA accuracy with match ammo. I have a $150 Savage Axis .223 with a cheap Bushnell scope that will hold a 0.7" group at 100y with handloads, and the only thing I've done to upgrade it was swap the terrible factory ChinaMart rings with some basic steel Weaver rings. I don't think a "light" trigger needs to be a factor in buying a rifle for precision shooting, it's much more important that it should be smooth, clean and predictable but it doesn't need to have an extremely light break. I think a lot of people try to use lighter triggers to overcome training issues and that doesn't make things better. I would tell you to buy the rifle you like and spend good money on quality glass and rings and then mount the scope properly by making sure the eye relief is correct, the screws are evenly tightened to the correct torque, and the scope is perfectly leveled. For target-only rifles I like fixed power SWFA SS scopes personally, but I will say that I've also been impressed with the quality of my variable Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP for the price ($350-400). Your rifle will not "like" every type of match load so buy a few boxes of several types and shoot them all for groups to see which one performs the best. Using a rear squeeze bag in conjunction with a bipod or front rest will make an enormous difference in stability whenever you shoot from a bench. So I have an Athlon Argos 6-24x50 BTR FFP scope on it with Athlon rings. I used a Wheeler scope leveling kit to level the scope, and a fat wrench to torque the rings to the manufacturer specs, 35 in-lbs for the bases, and 20 in-lbs for the rings. I made sure the rings were both pushed forwards against the rail bosses so they won't shift under recoil. The scope is around $500 but cam be had as low as $350 on sale or clearance. I always use a rear squeeze bag when shooting from the bench. That said, I know my technique needs work. I tried a Caldwell front rest and it just wasn't as solid as a good sandbag. I did my best not to impart any pressure on the stock. Or to put it another way, I tried to get the reticle aligned without having to apply any sideways, or up and down pressure on the stock. Get the windage lined up and then use the squeeze bag for elevation. I do have a bad habit of letting my thumb cross over the grip and I am trying to break myself of that habit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 3:55:18 PM EST
[#26]
My PRS bolt action rimfires and centerfires all have Timney HIT triggers set to 6 ounces. Woods walking/hunting rifles have triggers at 1.5 lbs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:00:37 PM EST
[#27]
I had an old Mosin Nagant M91 that I would carry around by the trigger when it was cocked and hot have it go off. I could even bounce it a bit. I could hit what I was aiming at. I figured out the trick on how to improve it and learned an important life lesson. The difference between having a MN with an okay trigger pull and having it go off when you close the bolt is an extremely slim margin. That is why I have never told anyone how to do it. Way to dangerous. I got mine down from about 11 pounds to about 5. After that it fell right off the cliff.
It is more about learning to use the tools you have and all their little quirks first. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:40:21 PM EST
[#28]
3.5-4 pounds trigger is atrocious for a bolt gun IMO, but it is a 'budget' gun so one can't expect a 2 pound consistent trigger. My 3-gun match ARs have 2-2.5 # triggers so personally, I would spend an extra $170 for this 2.0 # trigger from Timney - https://timneytriggers.com/replacement-trigger-for-the-ruger-american-centerfire/
Quoted: I've tried shooting groups with the factory trigger weight on my new Ruger American (which I think comes set at about 3.5 to 4 pounds). It took a lot of effort and concentration to squeeze through the entire pull and keep the reticle on target. I know there are people who can shoot heavier triggers really well, assuming the gun, ammo, rest, and all the other factors are good. But I can't. I think anything north of 2 pounds really throws me off when trying to shoot small groups. For those of you who do shoot sub-moa groups "all day", what's your trigger weight, and can you achieve those groups with a heavier trigger, everything else being equal? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:43:21 PM EST
[#29]
With minimal practice any consistent trigger can mimic a few oz trigger. You just preload the trigger to before it breaks. When sights line up where you want them, you pull the last few ounces.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:44:18 PM EST
[#30]
I am not a top shot. Decent but not great, probably my poor eyesight never helped. But getting a match grade Milazzo Kreiger two-stage trigger for my HBAR many years ago was like an epiphany
As was getting a similar Jewell two stage trigger for my Remington 700 varmint rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:45:16 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Triggers in the benchrest world are measured in ounces. 2 ounce triggers are common. Several of the techniques used to achieve repeatable accuracy in benchrest shooting can be applied when fine tuning a hunting rifle and the ammo used for it. Start here https://forum.accurateshooter.com/ Warning, it is a deep rabbit hole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Read up about bench rest rifles. This. Triggers in the benchrest world are measured in ounces. 2 ounce triggers are common. Several of the techniques used to achieve repeatable accuracy in benchrest shooting can be applied when fine tuning a hunting rifle and the ammo used for it. Start here https://forum.accurateshooter.com/ Warning, it is a deep rabbit hole. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:46:03 PM EST
[#32]
If the trigger in question is a single stage, I don't believe you can 'preload' like a 2-stage.
Quote HistoryQuoted: With minimal practice any consistent trigger can mimic a few oz trigger. You just preload the trigger to before it breaks. When sights line up where you want them, you pull the last few ounces. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:47:46 PM EST
[#33]
After shooting my Anschutz 54.18 MS-R, the trigger in my Ruger Precision feels like a Mosin.
I'd like to knock the RPR back to a smooth 24 oz. and get rid of the trigger dingus. I see a Timney or similar in my future. I have the RPR shooting 0.3 MOA consistently so now I look at every little thing that may help.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:50:12 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3.5-4 pounds trigger is atrocious for a bolt gun IMO, but it is a 'budget' gun so one can't expect a 2 pound consistent trigger. My 3-gun match ARs have 2-2.5 # triggers so personally, I would spend an extra $170 for this 2.0 # trigger from Timney - https://timneytriggers.com/replacement-trigger-for-the-ruger-american-centerfire/ You don't need an entire new trigger, just a lighter trigger return spring. I ordered one from ebay and it will be here next week. Right now I have a Bic pen spring installed, but it is probably a little too light. It returns the trigger just fine but the actual weight of it is only the sear engagement at this point. I haven't shot it like this yet but the trigger feel is fantastic and I did try dropping it from a couple of feet high onto the butt of the rifle and the trigger did not release. That said, I would feel better with a trigger adjustable from 1 pound to 3 pounds. The factory spring is adjustable from 3 pounds to 5 pounds. This Bic pen spring has to be in the ounces. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:51:41 PM EST
[#35]
A trigger that is too light is unsafe.
You need a high quality barrel. Marksmanship is very highly dependent on squeezing the trigger without moving the weapon. If you have to use more muscle to overcome resistance then you may involuntarily move other muscles, move the barrel, decrease precision and accuracy. You COULD be an amazing marksman but one way to reduce moving the barrel is use less muscle in the trigger squeeze and lighten the pull. In my not particularly expert experience, sub MOA works for me with a 2-2.5 pound trigger. As the weight goes up barrel movement does. Its pretty straightforward. There may be good reasons, such as safety, to have a heavier trigger weight but there is no such thing as a free lunch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:53:43 PM EST
[#36]
My 2 cents if the gun is capable of better accuracy and the trigger is holding you back an upgrade is definitely going to be worth it. But if you have a rifle that cannot shoot better than a pizza box a trigger is either the problem or it is not going to change anything.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:54:08 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the trigger in question is a single stage, I don't believe you can 'preload' like a 2-stage. It's similar to the Savage accutrigger in that it has a safety blade in the middle of the trigger that protects against firing from inertia I the gun is dropped. That safety blade has it's own spring, and you have to completely compress it before the trigger itself can pulled off the sear. So you feel the first "stage" which is that safety blade, then the actual trigger pull (technically the real single stage). |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:54:46 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the trigger in question is a single stage, I don't believe you can 'preload' like a 2-stage. No different between a single and two stage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:55:46 PM EST
[#39]
I shoot lots of very small groups. 2's and under. For me, the trigger weight isn't as important as trigger consistency. I have a Ruger 6.5 Grendel with the stock trigger and I've shot plenty of less than 1/2" groups with it. But, if you give me a choice, I want 4oz or less. It is far less concentration to “touch” a light trigger that breaks clean than a 3lb trigger that breaks smooth.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 4:57:10 PM EST
[#40]
A steady rifle is important for sub MOA shooting. A light, clean trigger helps keep it from moving.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 5:09:00 PM EST
[#41]
Okay just went out to the garage and I was able to find an old RCBS trigger pull gauge. I'm getting about 2 lbs with the Bic pen spring installed. The 2 pound trigger feels dramatically lighter than the factory trigger did. I didn't measure the pull with the factory spring, but it may have been as much as 5 pounds.
This is kind of a crude trigger pull gauge, but it's all I have.  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 6:01:37 PM EST
[#42]
OP, here are my suggestions.
First, as has been noted, accuracy *can* be attained with a heavy trigger. In fact, shooting with a heavy trigger will facilitate learning effective fundamentals. Service Rifle competitors regularly shoot sub-moa groups and they are required to use a 4.5# trigger (minimum). 1) Dry fire. I swear I will be on my death bed some day still telling people to dryfire. It will allow you to diagnose your shot-execution issues and correct them. It will then allow you to develop consistency with your corrected and refined technique. My most successful year of competition I did more than 10 hours of dryfire for every hour on the range, including competitions. 2) You can’t “free-recoil” a rifle with a heavy trigger. You must learn to stabilize it to prevent movement from the trigger press. Shooting any of the position-shooting disciplines will teach you these skills. High Power, small bore, even an Appleseed clinic. Go do one or more of those. 3) Too many people use ultra-light triggers as a crutch to hide bad fundamentals. It’s good that you have that good rifle with a not-too-light trigger. It will help you become a much better rifleman than starting with a very light trigger. You can get light triggers later. Trust me. You’ll be way ahead of the crowd if you work on #1 and #2 above, and get rifles with light triggers down the road in a few years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:38:41 PM EST
[#43]
I say important, plus a little.
I like a clean break over weight. Both is really nice. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:50:23 PM EST
[#44]
Triggers are either fine or terrible to me. My match rifles with trigger techs are pretty light compared to my tikkas and those are light compared to my g triggers in the ar15s and they all shoot fine to me. A trigger has to be pretty bad to matter to me personally.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 7:50:25 PM EST
[#45]
It's important. I consider 3.5 pounds light, I don't like much less than that, but I hunt with my best target rifle too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:03:58 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, here are my suggestions. First, as has been noted, accuracy *can* be attained with a heavy trigger. In fact, shooting with a heavy trigger will facilitate learning effective fundamentals. Service Rifle competitors regularly shoot sub-moa groups and they are required to use a 4.5# trigger (minimum). 1) Dry fire. I swear I will be on my death bed some day still telling people to dryfire. It will allow you to diagnose your shot-execution issues and correct them. It will then allow you to develop consistency with your corrected and refined technique. My most successful year of competition I did more than 10 hours of dryfire for every hour on the range, including competitions. 2) You can't "free-recoil" a rifle with a heavy trigger. You must learn to stabilize it to prevent movement from the trigger press. Shooting any of the position-shooting disciplines will teach you these skills. High Power, small bore, even an Appleseed clinic. Go do one or more of those. 3) Too many people use ultra-light triggers as a crutch to hide bad fundamentals. It's good that you have that good rifle with a not-too-light trigger. It will help you become a much better rifleman than starting with a very light trigger. You can get light triggers later. Trust me. You'll be way ahead of the crowd if you work on #1 and #2 above, and get rifles with light triggers down the road in a few years. So the above suggestions make sense, that a person should develop good fundamentals before upgrading. But in my particular situation, my 100 yard groups with this particular rifle/scope/ammo combination are so bad that I know *something* is wrong, and given that I have shot better groups with other rifles (never sub MOA, but maybe 1.5 moa) I feel like I can probably shoot better than what I'm seeing here. In an attempt to pin down the problem, I want to eliminate potential causes. One of the big ones is the trigger pull on this rifle. The stock is pretty lightweight and I am finding that I had to really ramp up the pressure on the trigger to get it to break, and the more pressure I applied, the more likely I was going to apply some off-axis torque to the stock and throw the shot. I think I'll put that factory spring back in and measure the pull just to get an idea of what I was dealing with. That said, I felt like my sights were properly aligned when the trigger was breaking, in spite of the heavy pull. Now if I knew I had a good barrel, good scope, and ammo the gun likes, then sure, I could try a heavier trigger. But I need to eliminate any factors that could cause poor accuracy so I can determine the cause and fix it. If it's me, then fine, I'll practice more. But I have shot better than this with other rifles. I've cleaned the rack at 30 yards in an NRL22 stage from prone off a bipod, and the smallest target is 1/4". I also got like 22/25 shots on the .22 tack driver challenge on the 25 yard target. Honestly I don't think I'm that bad of a shot (nobody thinks they are, though), and I wanted to try my hand at 100 yards, but I'm not patient enough for .22lr in the wind at 100. If I try heavier (match) ammo, a different scope, a lighter trigger, and a calm, wind-free day and my groups don't significantly improve, I think I can safely say I am a terrible shot. I should have saved the targets, but they were bad enough that I didn't think anything of value could be gleaned from them, other than that three different types of ammo produced similarly disappointing results. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:09:42 PM EST
[#47]
Okay I just checked the trigger pull weight on my .22lr Savage MkII FVSR and I have it at about 1.5 lbs. This is the rifle that I've shot my best groups with ever (from an MOA perspective).
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:25:45 PM EST
[#48]
I had a 20" AR with a unmodified Geissele SSA in it that was consistently sub MOA.
If the gun is mechanically capable, a 3-4lbs trigger shouldn't be what's stopping you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:28:27 PM EST
[#49]
Smooth is better than light. Though I prefer light, especially with handguns to reduce curling of grip with 12lb triggers if you don't practice a whole bunch. Rifles just need to be clean and consistent.
Sharp break is the most important so it doesn't sort of snag and fire without it being a surprise. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/6/2024 8:30:07 PM EST
[#50]
Adjust your trigger. It made a drastic improvement on my American.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
