[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hughes Amendment (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/20/2012 10:08:31 AM EDT
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Why do people claim the Hughes Amendment was passed illegitimately?
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret A lot if not most of the Congress didn't realize this. |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret A lot if not most of the Congress didn't realize this. They voted on it? |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret A lot if not most of the Congress didn't realize this. They voted on it? Congress voting on something without knowing the entire content? No! Of course they voted on it without checking. It's wrong, but it happens. |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. This...it took almost 25 years just to get the damned footage of the Vote to confirm that Shenanigans had in fact occurred..Problem is that a number of Legislators had it brought to their attention, and while a lot of them expressed outrage, nobody really had any hopes that we could go anywhere with it. |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret A lot if not most of the Congress didn't realize this. They voted on it? Congress voting on something without knowing the entire content? No! Of course they voted on it without checking. It's wrong, but it happens. No recorded vote was asked for? |
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Wow Rangel isn't biased or incorrect at all. Not only did the Nay's have a larger voice, but they had the votes by a landslide. And I take it there is nothing we can do about this? Not w/o legislation. IIRC, there was a HUGE thread about this and the conclusion was that if this was brought before the courts, they would defer to the legislature as this being a "procedural" issue. Unfortunately after the amendment was approved by Rangel, the full bill was approved by both House and Senate. By doing that, the amendment was accepted as part of the bill and we got fucked. Exactly. People knew it was part of the final bill. It wasn't made law in secret A lot if not most of the Congress didn't realize this. They voted on it? Congress voting on something without knowing the entire content? No! Of course they voted on it without checking. It's wrong, but it happens. No recorded vote was asked for? Recorded vote of what? Watch the video. Please. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available. 
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. I was including stamp prices. My NFA dealer has me trained. 
Looking at current AR prices and the way most people configure their rifles, I doubt you'd see them for much under 2K for the better brand stuff. |
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I see in the video no recorded vote of the Hughes Amendment was asked for. Yep. Rangel gaveled the motion agreed to before anyone stood up and requested a recorded vote (or at least one that could be heard on the video). Dodgy chairmanship of the COTW by Rangel? Certainly. But within his prerogative as chairman? Yep. In any case, the bill was passed by the whole House and Senate. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. Yep a full auto now is slightly higher than the cost of a semi auto and that is even with the smaller market of LEO only |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. Yep a full auto now is slightly higher than the cost of a semi auto and that is even with the smaller market of LEO only With the huge semi-auto AR market your average midrange rifle hits in the $1,400 range (give or take). I'd figure a $400-$500 premium for full auto, dealer transfer fee of $50-$75 and $200 stamp and you've still cracked $2,000. That's not including any shipping costs or state tax, of which you'll have at least one. Economies of scale mean next to nothing in the civilian commercial market anymore. It doesn't matter if a sear costs 50 cents to make, it matters what the demand is and the prices the market will bear. Given the never ending panic of the American gun owner, I'd not bet on bargain basement prices. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. There are enough Pre-86 ads floating around to show what prices were at the time..even accounting for regular inflation, MG's would be not much more than the regular price for an AR-platform now. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. Yep a full auto now is slightly higher than the cost of a semi auto and that is even with the smaller market of LEO only With the huge semi-auto AR market your average midrange rifle hits in the $1,400 range (give or take). I'd figure a $400-$500 premium for full auto, dealer transfer fee of $50-$75 and $200 stamp and you've still cracked $2,000. That's not including any shipping costs or state tax, of which you'll have at least one. Economies of scale mean next to nothing in the civilian commercial market anymore. It doesn't matter if a sear costs 50 cents to make, it matters what the demand is and the prices the market will bear. Given the never ending panic of the American gun owner, I'd not bet on bargain basement prices. You can buy a good quality AR15 for $700 + $10 transfer fee. Add $200 to that for the stamp and you get $900. After the dust settled, I bet you would be able to find guns with burst fire/full auto for $700 to $4k just like you can find semi auto ar15s in that range now but +$200 for the stamp. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. There are enough Pre-86 ads floating around to show what prices were at the time..even accounting for regular inflation, MG's would be not much more than the regular price for an AR-platform now. I think his point was that someone who can afford to feed the ammo requirements of a FA firearm isn't scoffing that much at the buy-in price, and those who are wouldn't really be able to feed them anyways. I'm sure we're all aware that you pay for the cost of a semi-auto firearm several times over in ammunition. Having said that, I completely disagree with the restrictions on NFA items, and I'd probably buy one if they were not so expensive, even if I just fired burst or SA most of the time. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Curious about ACTUAL costs in today's dollars? Just google the dealers who carry "post dealers sample" machineguns. Those are the "real" prices. Makes you go "hmmmmm." |
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Curious about ACTUAL costs in today's dollars? Just google the dealers who carry "post dealers sample" machineguns. Those are the "real" prices. Makes you go "hmmmmm." The real prices would likely be even lower if things were being built in larger quantities. |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. Those prices would be way too high. It costs next to nothing to make a DIAS. And converting a lower to accept a regular safety sear is pretty basic work, too. Most of your cost would be in the stamp. Yep a full auto now is slightly higher than the cost of a semi auto and that is even with the smaller market of LEO only With the huge semi-auto AR market your average midrange rifle hits in the $1,400 range (give or take). I'd figure a $400-$500 premium for full auto, dealer transfer fee of $50-$75 and $200 stamp and you've still cracked $2,000. That's not including any shipping costs or state tax, of which you'll have at least one. Economies of scale mean next to nothing in the civilian commercial market anymore. It doesn't matter if a sear costs 50 cents to make, it matters what the demand is and the prices the market will bear. Given the never ending panic of the American gun owner, I'd not bet on bargain basement prices. No way would a F/A AR command a $500 premium in today's saturated market. Drilling jigs are common, people would form 1 their own lowers and be out a $200 tax + F/A FCG + engraving costs. It would be similar to all of the SBRs being made now. |
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Prices would be on the lower half end of the semi's. For an M16, you'd see the prices sub 1K except for some of the specialty rifles. MAC 10's would be about $250-$300. There would be some guns even cheaper such as STEN SMG's and other low end MG's.
We do post samples here and there would be no reason for any prices to be higher than any of the semi's on the market. On many MG's, the manufacturing process is easier than on their semi counter part. An example would be an UZI or a MAC or a semi STEN or MP40. Personally, I think everyone involved in the passage of the Hughes Amendment should spend the rest of their miserable lives in jail. The vote was a fraud and the Amendment needs to be shot down. |
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I see in the video no recorded vote of the Hughes Amendment was asked for. Yep. Rangel gaveled the motion agreed to before anyone stood up and requested a recorded vote (or at least one that could be heard on the video). Dodgy chairmanship of the COTW by Rangel? Certainly. But within his prerogative as chairman? Yep. In any case, the bill was passed by the whole House and Senate. I figured he was in his right to do it so I don't understand why people claim it was passed underhanded? |
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I see in the video no recorded vote of the Hughes Amendment was asked for. Yep. Rangel gaveled the motion agreed to before anyone stood up and requested a recorded vote (or at least one that could be heard on the video). Dodgy chairmanship of the COTW by Rangel? Certainly. But within his prerogative as chairman? Yep. In any case, the bill was passed by the whole House and Senate. I figured he was in his right to do it so I don't understand why people claim it was passed underhanded? I'm going to guess deliberately manipulating the results of the vote is not "within his rights". Can you imagine if Pelosi had done the same with say Obamacare? |
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It is of no real consequence. Those who cannot, and include myself in this, afford a machine gun, could never afford to feed one. If some future catastrophe requires me to have a machine gun of some sort, I've no doubt there will be plenty available.
If the machine gun registry were never closed, there'd be millions of them in circulation by now and I would suspect that the prices would settle at the mid to high end of AR prices. You wouldn't be paying $4,500 for a MAC or $7,000 for an Uzi. I'd hazard a guess that an M16 would run $2,500-ish or less. Hell, sears might be less than $1,000. Definately not out of reach for a huge part of the gun buying public. There are enough Pre-86 ads floating around to show what prices were at the time..even accounting for regular inflation, MG's would be not much more than the regular price for an AR-platform now. This is true, but they eat so very much more than a semi that those that the purchase price does not matter much. |