I did a near keto diet for years, it was healthy for me.  My wife hated it, and weened me off of it.  On a trip, I was having terrible allergies.  Pretty sure my breathing was fucked, and my blood 02 was way down - I just could not feel awake.  I drank a shit load of sugared caffeinated soda to feel awake.  I have no doubts in my mind I pushed my blood sugar through the roof.  After I realized what I had done, I cut my sugars, cut my carbs, and went to see my doctor with an earliest available appointment.  My blood sugar was still around 500 - my doctor told me I probably peaked around 750 and if he had seen me at that point he would have sent me strait to the hospital.

I am not saying keto caused anything - other than to make me more healthy.  But drinking plenty of water is generally recommend on a keto diet as well.  I recognized the smell of ketones in my urine during my blood sugar spike (because I had done keto in the past - it was a familiar smell) - but the cause was not dietary ketosis, but DKA.
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OP is diabetic.  He has risk factors for DKA.  All I recommended is drink plenty of water while maintaining electrolytes.  Good idea for both Keto and a diabetic in general.  I don't know what happened to the relative of the poster in the thread in the past.  I recall they were already a diabetic, and suspect they were already either in DKA or damn near it when they tried to do Keto - and it bottomed out their insulin.  A hard fast while you are already deadly ill might have unexpected consequences - who knows, they might have also been on drugs for the diabetes, and the fast caused the drugs to effectively overdose.

I do hate the fact doctors tend to be all about drugs, and far less about lifestyle choices contradictory to their training.  They were taught that low fat diets with moderate protean are the only healthy option.  Often they simply can not consider a low carb diet might be the right option.  That said, if you are going from a high carb to a low carb diet - and you are on medication that is dosed for the high carb diet - I can see the dose being completely off if you rapidly switch to a -0- carb diet.  I think the OP might have already figured this out.  Perhaps medical supervision with an eye to the change in diet might have made the transition smoother.
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As for a cure...  You can look at the disease in 2 ways.  You can consider the genetic predisposition as the disease.  In that case it does not matter if you ever have symptoms in your life.  I don't think that is fair.  I bet the vast majority of humans will get symptoms if they eat a shitty enough diet long enough.  You can look at the symptoms as the disease.  You can sometimes control those with a lifestyle change.  Sure, if you change back, the symptoms will come back - but you can control it as long as you have willpower.  The only real gray area is how sensitive to diet you are.  Once you have had symptoms, you are probably more sensitive to diet than people who never have.  I don't think we really have tests to determine just how sensitive a person is to their diet and how that sensitivity changes over time.  I will admit this.  It was easier to control with diet 20 years ago than it is now for me.  Blood sugar I could knock down in 48hrs now might take 2 weeks of careful eating.  Poor eating might cause a spike with one meal, when it might have taken months of the same abuse before.

Keto dieting reverses the hyperglycemia almost immediately. Ergo it’s not a concern.

I went from 10.0 at 276 to mid 5.x at 215. I went from 10.0 to 5.7 in 4 months, and I. doing so developed an….well, almost hatred for naysayers. There’s nothing scary about keto dieting, unless you own stock in a drug company or General Mills or ADM.


Eta: keto dieting and the modern understanding of how terrible it is to have a high sugar, low exercise lifestyle are the most significant things to happen in diabetes in…forever. Literally.

Op, you need more of this and less of listening to people on the internet.

Quite literally the cure to ANY health issue is keto. If you’re having a heart attack and pray to keto Jesus, he will save you.

I don't think you understand my meaning earlier and you are still missing it by a little. Yes once a diabetic it is always going to be on your chart but many people are insulin resistant with no symptoms. One study I read said over 40 percent of Americans are insulin resistant add that to the pre diabetic and diabetic the number gets big. So in my mind the crap American diet is the disease and people are walking around simply not showing high sugar which is the symptoms. By the time the symptoms show you've been sick a long time.  So basically take carbs away and you're cured. Doctors don't check for insulin resistance but the one big Indicator is a big gut.

Mostly agree, unless someone is on an SGLT-2 inhibitor.  In that setting, keto dieting isn’t just scary, it is potentially lethal.  

Are you using those Abbott freestyle libre 2/3 sensors? If not you need to.

I got them for my mother. I can tell you that diabetes and alzheimer are a great combination ( NOT ) and the sensors help us a damn lot.

When I watched the video about the 30lb cure.  I kind of laughed about it.  Loosing 30lbs today will probably help most people, till they need to loose another 30lbs to maintain it.  I lost 30lbs.  Eventually started to have symptoms again.  I have lost almost 30lbs so far this time - how long before symptoms start up again.  Honestly, I know I need to loose another 30lbs already.  At that point, I will be around the weight I was in high school when I worked out 2+ hrs a day for sports.  At some point, I will not be able to healthily loose another 30lbs.  That said, when I did do keto and it worked easily - I did get down to that high school weight.  I never had any real problems until my late 30's, in my early 30's I was still working out 4-6hrs a week and competing locally and nationally (abet at a fairly recreational level - the serious guys were exercising 2-4hrs a day yet).


My current goal is to get back to 6hrs of exercise a week.  Right now I am under 2, and think I might be able to push it up to 4 - but the couple times I tried to do the jump to 6 have been fairly miserable failures.

T2 D can be a temporary condition.

Are you saying its not?

This is correct.

Literally this simple.

I am beyond happy for you, you have seen the light, now sing it from the rooftops and help other humans.  You are awesome.

There is no "safely eating high carb" for any human, now, or ever.  High carb is deadly for human beings.

Lookup dr Ken berry.  Dr Berg and Dr Feng on YouTube.

that guy is a quack and has never shown data that fasting reverses diabetes.

not eating carbs keeps your blood sugar low. no matter how long you do that, if you've fucked yourself into type ii you're not going back. if you eat a bunch of sugar again you'll have a fucked up response, not a normal one.

If you are intoxicated and stop drinking alcohol, you are not cured because if you drink alcohol again you will be intoxicated again.

Jason fung probably informed a lot of the folks in this thread saying keto and fasting.

which once again leads us into a semi-circular argument.

Abuse of the modern diet kills people - given enough time, abuse of the modern diet will turn most people diabetic.  Once you have been diabetic, it no longer requires abuse, the modern diet will kill you fast enough.  If you get rid of the root cause - abuse of the modern diet, you could keep a lot of people more healthy for their entire natural life.  If you are already diabetic, ditching the modern diet can sometimes stop the damage from accumulating more.

By modern diet - I mean a carb rich one, not a sugar rich one.  Asian countries have managed to prove that carbs, in controlled quantities, do not really cause diabetes.  Abuse of sugar is the abuse.  It fucks up our teeth, it fucks up our pancreas.  It probably fucks up a lot of other things.  I don't want to say sugar by itself does this - I think fruit can be part of a healthy diet.  But vast quantities of refined sugar simply can not.  Once the damage is done, we do loose the ability to healthfully deal with a carb based diet.
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Now what I don't know is how much carbs we can manage to get away with by modifying the modern diet with fasting.  Fasting in one way or another was always part of the human condition before the modern diet that is so food rich we never feel actual hunger.

Stop shoving food in your face dumbass. Such quackery.

It is impressive he has put out so much content based on the wisdom of a 4 year old. His kid was right though. If you want to lose weight, don't eat.

if you have a broken finger and it hurts when you type, avoiding typing to prevent  the pain doesn't mean your finger isn't broken.

I like the alcoholic analogy.  If you are not an alcoholic and you get drunk, when you sober up - you are probably cured.  If you are an alcoholic, you really can not afford to get drunk, because you will easily fall back into the cycle.  You can sober up again, but you will probably always still be an alcoholic.  A diabetic is a lot like a sober alcoholic (or a drunk one for that matter, depending on where they are on a cycle).  That said, there are a lot of people who are prone to become alcoholics, who have not yet started a downward spiral.

Attached File

glory in ignorance. lol.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Jason_Fung



be sure to buy your fasting  tea from doctor quack.

Your body has broken and can no longer process carbs, you should stop consuming them.

Your doctor will be probably be happy to prescribe you increasing levels of meds to support the standard american diet.   If you're taking more than metformin watch your blood sugars closely if you change your diet but it should be meat and veg.

yep, low carb/keto can manage diabetes. not cure it.

The cure/manage terminology is sort of pedantic and does no service to diabetics which generally get told to keep eating carbs while they take increasing levels of meds to manage them.

I have Type 2 and also take metformin 2x a day.


Avoid processed sugars. If you like sugar in your coffee, try turbinado cane sugar.

Avoid pastas, bread unless it is multi-grain, potatoes, etc. All the starches. Starches get metabolized and converted to sugars.


My doctor said the biggest thing I could do is to lose weight, he said the thinner you are, the easier it is to manage. I went on a diet of about 1800 calories a day and have dropped almost 30 pounds now.

Plenty of stuff out there that is very low in calories that is delicious. I eat small portions of things like pork loin and some veggies, and use kosher baby dill pickles as filler ( 0 calories ), so I feel full. A nature valley granola bar for breakfast, then a fruit of some sort about 10am, then a salad or something like that for lunch.

Friday is cheat day. I stop for a biscuit on the way to work and get Chinese buffet food for lunch. No dinner on friday, just a bag of microwave popcorn.



.

Dont really give a shit what he has been up to. Watched some of his early videos and stopped eating for longer stretches. No purchase needed.

That rational wiki looks like opinionated nonsense.

You can review what he has to say and take it or leave it. There is a lot he said that was valid. At least a decade ago.

more analysis of what he has to say:

https://biolayne.com/articles/research/its-not-calories-its-hormones-a-response-to-dr-jason-fung/

Early T2DM is absolutely curable in most cases if caught early. There is a genetic component, but it is brought about by a shit diet and lack of exercise. It is completely reversible in most early stages. Most people don't give a shit, and expect some magic pill to work while they down a jumbo bag of chips and a 12 pack of coke. They just progress deeper in the disease while doing this.

They honestly put sugar in the sugar here. What's worse is the inexpensive foods are carb bombs. A dollar store is 10k Sq ft of carbs. It's easy to see why so many people are developing T2.

(deleted)

RIP Dr. Hallberg

Are you on any other DM meds? Metformin by itself doesn't usually cause hypoglycemia. Some other drug classes do.

If you've lost 30 pounds, what was your most recent Hemoglobin A1c?

How are your AM glucose readings?

High is a relative term. Otherwise we are probably in agreement.

Your diet is still killing you. Sugars, bread, granola, fruit, biscuits, Chinese buffet…….your doctor is ok with all that?

Lol avoid processed sugar just eat cane sugar instead...

I'm not familiar with that type of drugs. Do they stop the liver from glucogenesis?

(Also, the entire point of keto is to avoid taking drugs - once you're dependent upon a particular drug, yeah, you need a doc to help you get off it)

So.....this is worthy of its own thread.

I am, for better or worse, in the camp that pancreatic damage isn't likely to be reversed - once you lose beta cell function, it's gone. You can clean your diet up to where the complications of the diet aren't a problem. Whether you call this remission, reversal, or a cure, is semantics.

**HOWEVER** there are case studies and research papers that *DO* show where people dropped their glucose levels low enough, long enough, that beta cells begin to regenerate and/or function again.

Can doing keto long enough and strict enough, with maybe some beta-cell-supporting supplements, fasting, exercise, etc, put a T2D in a position to see the pancreas return to normal function and allow us to *somewhat* return to a higher-carb diet? Obviously it would be retardedly stupid to go back to a conventional American diet, but is it *possible* to go back to being able to tolerate a moderate carb diet?

Most doctors have a patient portal where you can email them these questions.

....and get an answer based on when they finished med school 20 years ago. Useless.

I can't fault docs for being stuck in a 20-year-old rut, when they have the AHA and ADA being funded by grain companies.

But seriously, most docs simply don't have time to stay up to date on the cutting edge of every possible disease they might see in a day.

Back to my earlier question, though:

Even the ADA recognizes that real healing is possible - if you can put your A1C in remission long enough and you caught the problem fast enough:

Insulin-Producing Beta Cells Are Not Irreversibly Lost in Early Type 2 Diabetes

Let’s see what we find at RationalWiki…cholesterol denialism?  Statin denialism?  

The site you’re attempting to reference sounds like a cult itself.

Nice try though.

That bag of popcorn isn’t nearly as healthy for you as you think, especially as a diabetic.

I have his book next to me right now. At the back of the book in the chapter “Endnotes”, there are 37 pages of cited works he used while working on his book.

The websites you cited?  Looks like opinionated junk.

Bolded part is why you see an Endocrinologist - you know, a doctor who deals with Diabetes all day, every day.

But seriously, can we drop the fucking conspiracy theories?  They add nothing of value to, well, anything.

And there are plenty of outdated endocrinologists out there too.

I have no idea what conspiracy theory you're talking about. If you're dismissing the funding sources of the ADA and AHA and the resultant bad, outdated, grains-are-good-for-you stances they take as 'conspiracy theories' then I'm sorry, I don't respect your opinions on that and won't pretend to and certainly won't drop anything. Keep eating your oatmeal. lol.

Yeah,  if only the Endocrinologists made Youtube videos, then they'd be current and wise.

But hey, I'm probably also funded by the sinister grain companies.  They are, after all, the true power behind everything.

What you fail to understand is that people who spend their days watching Youtube videos and reading fringe alternative medicine articles are more qualified to render medical advice than a doctor or licensed nutrionist.

That said, here's the general advice my PCP gave me when I became prediabetic: eat less, choose a more healthy diet, lose weight, and get more exercise.

But doctors are all useless, outdated puppets of Big Grain.

I posted an article from the ADA and you dismissed it as 'fringe alternative medicine'.