[ARCHIVED THREAD] - IDPA bans the Sig P320 (Page 4 of 7)
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Quoted: It cannot be stated that they are 100 percent truly unsafe, without knowing EXACTLY what the cause is. They do APPEAR to be unsafe, but there is no 100 percent definitive proof, yet. The mystery remains and leads to emotionally based assumptions. Quoted: Quoted: Im not entirely sure you can call it bias when there are multiple documented cases of these weapons having uncommanded discharges that have resulted in injuries and a fatality. Whether or not we know EXACTLY what the cause is doesnt change the fact that these guns It cannot be stated that they are 100 percent truly unsafe, without knowing EXACTLY what the cause is. They do APPEAR to be unsafe, but there is no 100 percent definitive proof, yet. The mystery remains and leads to emotionally based assumptions. Nobody can really prove anything 100%. Luckily for the victims (Sigtims?), they do not have to do so. They only need to prove by preponderanve of evidence that the guns are unsafe; then Sig is strictly liable. At this point, I think that res ipsa loquitur may apply to the holster pops. The burden of proof will not be difficult to sustain. |
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Quoted: I have a feeling that the P320 is going to be prolific in certain dense , ahem, urban areas in the near future. Attached File I'm not selling mine ... for now. MUP-2 on the way? |
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Quoted: I had a sensible chuckle, then realized I'm going to hell right after you. And since I'm heading there anyway I'll shitpost even more with this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/446660/IMG_2115_jpeg-3597930.JPG 
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Quoted: Well, banning guns without completely understanding the issue, just for supposed safety is not exactly something new. Gun control by the gun community, never thought we would get to that point, but here we are. Makes one wonder what is really behind all the 320 emotionally driven bias… Not giving Sig a pass, just pointing out the obvious bias and what it is leading to. They aren't "banning guns", just this one specific pistol that, at the moment, seems to have issues with firing when you don't want it to. Not unreasonable in my mind. As far as "emotionally driven bias", I think it's more like " this pistol might just have a real issue with shooting uncommanded.", bias. |
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Quoted: They aren't "banning guns", just this one specific pistol that, at the moment, seems to have issues with firing when you don't want it to. Not unreasonable in my mind. As far as "emotionally driven bias", I think it's more like " this pistol might just have a real issue with shooting uncommanded.", bias. Bro thinks the IDPA police are going door to door and confiscating P320s. |
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Quoted: It's already begun. People have been talking about their LGS refusing to take in P320s and pulling them off the shelves. One online retailer in the big thread has pulled all P320s from available inventory. Gun Broker has no-reserve starting at $0.01 P320s now, too. Buy Nows with either FCU or complete lowers are $189. 
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Quoted: It's already begun. People have been talking about their LGS refusing to take in P320s and pulling them off the shelves. One online retailer in the big thread has pulled all P320s from available inventory. Gun Broker has no-reserve starting at $0.01 P320s now, too. My LGS in the Dallas area only has consignment guns out now. And they're just sitting there. 
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Quoted: And Sig still refuses to admit fault and still stands by the 320.
I shoot the shit out of my M18 albeit I have my own range and wear chainsaw kevlar chaps \I am thinking of reporting my range to Sig as having banned the 320 and see what happens…..if they respond I'm going tell them ok, I'll let the 320 back on the premises but they have to send me 10 cases on 9mm. What a shit show this is. |
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Quoted: Bro thinks the IDPA police are going door to door and confiscating P320s. Quoted: Quoted: They aren't "banning guns", just this one specific pistol that, at the moment, seems to have issues with firing when you don't want it to. Not unreasonable in my mind. As far as "emotionally driven bias", I think it's more like " this pistol might just have a real issue with shooting uncommanded.", bias. Bro thinks the IDPA police are going door to door and confiscating P320s. This is a natural outgrowth of the "you don't have a right to be safe" mentality that took hold during Covid. "I'm going to carry any gun I want, even if it's eventually proven that it will unexpectedly go off without pulling the trigger. If you don't want to get killed by it, maybe you should just stay home." |
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Quoted: IMHO, a Dremel should have an approved Form 4 as a Destructive Device before being used on any firearm. Quoted: Quoted: IDPA can plausibly claim they have no knowledge of bubba and his Dremel. IMHO, a Dremel should have an approved Form 4 as a Destructive Device before being used on any firearm.  Y u h8 WECSOG grads?Attached File |
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Quoted: Well, banning guns without completely understanding the issue, just for supposed safety is not exactly something new. Gun control by the gun community, never thought we would get to that point, but here we are. Makes one wonder what is really behind all the 320 emotionally driven bias… Not giving Sig a pass, just pointing out the obvious bias and what it is leading to. 
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I have over 15K rounds though my X5 Legion with no issues. It bugs me that they are not allowing me to shoot it with all the money and practice I have invested, but I can shoot other options until this finally is concluded. I suppose I will have to find an old Shadow for SSP/Production. |
| This was completely predictable when this all blew up. All major organizations have legal counsel. That legal counsel's job is to insulate the organization from risk. If you're an organization that uses firearms, gun store, LE agency, shooting competition ..whatever, then your lawyers are telling you right now to not allow this gun. Just look at it from a liability perspective, if IDPA doesn't do this and next week a P320 goes off and kills/injures someone, how big is their liability. I would say it's huge. |
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Quoted: I have over 15K rounds though my X5 Legion with no issues. It bugs me that they are not allowing me to shoot it with all the money and practice I have invested, but I can shoot other options until this finally is concluded. I suppose I will have to find an old Shadow for SSP/Production. You can blame Sig themselves for this. From the voluntary upgrade to present day, they have 100% dropped the ball. But please don't drop 320. I have an Xcompact. I paid like $600 for it and it is extremely accurate and reliable. However, it is still a P320 at the end of the day. You can thank Sig for being complete idiots and blaming people for guns that have proven to be defective. You don't have to believe me, you can read the FBI report yourself. |
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Quoted: You can blame Sig themselves for this. From the voluntary upgrade to present day, they have 100% dropped the ball. But please don't drop 320. I have an Xcompact. I paid like $600 for it and it is extremely accurate and reliable. However, it is still a P320 at the end of the day. You can thank Sig for being complete idiots and blaming people for guns that have proven to be defective. You don't have to believe me, you can read the FBI report yourself. Nothing has been "proven" with the P320. The FBI report itself supports that, lol. |
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Quoted: Have there been any occurrences with the 320 in competition? Quoted: Quoted: That’s a huge hit. I know a ton of competitors who shoot the 320 and shoot all kinds of matches from local, state and regional. Have there been any occurrences with the 320 in competition? Yes, there was a video at least a year ago of one going off in the holster. The guy had a pocket knife in his pocket that deflected the bullet away from his leg. |
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Quoted: Nothing has been "proven" with the P320. The FBI report itself supports that, lol. Quoted: Quoted: You can blame Sig themselves for this. From the voluntary upgrade to present day, they have 100% dropped the ball. But please don't drop 320. I have an Xcompact. I paid like $600 for it and it is extremely accurate and reliable. However, it is still a P320 at the end of the day. You can thank Sig for being complete idiots and blaming people for guns that have proven to be defective. You don't have to believe me, you can read the FBI report yourself. Nothing has been "proven" with the P320. The FBI report itself supports that, lol. So you are perfectly comfortable carrying one AIWB? |
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Quoted: SIGs own vibration test showed primer contact on all the submitted samples.  Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nothing has been "proven" with the P320. The FBI report itself supports that, lol. SIGs own vibration test showed primer contact on all the submitted samples. |
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Quoted: So rumor control is saying that AF death was not a UD, but a few Airmen fucking around, finding out and then trying to cover it up. Guess we'll find out. Curious what the social media response will be if it turns out an Airman actually pulled the M18 trigger. Only 1 guy on the internet has made that claim via a DM to a r/sigp320 reddit mod and it's been spreading. There's no validity to it. |
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Quoted: So rumor control is saying that AF death was not a UD, but a few Airmen fucking around, finding out and then trying to cover it up. Guess we'll find out. Curious what the social media response will be if it turns out an Airman actually pulled the M18 trigger. That was one X account making a post and people running with it. The AF meanwhile continues to expand the order to stop using M18s. That wouldn’t happen if it was just some Airmen fucking around. |
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Quoted: Sig lawsuit coming in 3....2....1... Ya, so at this point they will have to sue everyone in the universe. I’m not sure they’ve thought this one through. I bought 2x M18x in January, this is partly on me. I thought any issues with the pistol have been worked out by now, boy was I wrong. 2x $1,400 paperweights. I’d love to at least make use of the optic, but I don’t think anyone is milling Glock slides for the Romeo 17 and I doubt there are enough in circulation for anyone to consider it worth while. I’ve also shelved the 2x p365s I own, I regret ever spending a penny on an Sig product. To think I was looking at picking up a spear LT (with sig can) this year, it makes me sick. At this point even if they immediately change course and do the right thing, they have done massive damage to their own reputation. I don’t see how they survive as a company and it’s wild their executives lack the insight to realize this is entirely their own doing. |
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Quoted: So rumor control is saying that AF death was not a UD, but a few Airmen fucking around, finding out and then trying to cover it up. Guess we'll find out. Curious what the social media response will be if it turns out an Airman actually pulled the M18 trigger. Man please don't signal boost this obvious trash. USAF would not be inspecting all of their M18s for defects in the sear surfaces to cover up an idiot shooting another idiot. That screenshot is copium. |
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Quoted: Here's what I think the threshold is for USPSA making any sort of move, at all:
The problem for USPSA is now you have local ranges banning the 320s. |
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Quoted: The problem for USPSA is now you have local ranges banning the 320s. And an equal amount with boomer mentalities of mY sIg 32o nEvEr wEnT oFF None of my local clubs have banned the P320. Aside from the IDPA ones, if they want to stay IDPA affiliated I guess. |
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Quoted: Well, banning guns without completely understanding the issue, just for supposed safety is not exactly something new. Gun control by the gun community, never thought we would get to that point, but here we are. Makes one wonder what is really behind all the 320 emotionally driven bias… Not giving Sig a pass, just pointing out the obvious bias and what it is leading to. Quoted for truth. Sig's reaction likely has been overly defensive, but people have been happy to hate on Sig and the 320 since it beat Glock in the MHS trials. Actual faults with a small percentage of guns have been magnified into the idea that all 320s are waiting to blow up at any moment. Quoted: So rumor control is saying that AF death was not a UD, but a few Airmen fucking around, finding out and then trying to cover it up. Guess we'll find out. Curious what the social media response will be if it turns out an Airman actually pulled the M18 trigger. Wouldn't be surprising in the slightest. The timing of the incident, coming so closely on the heels of the FBI reporting slamming, at least according to social media, the 320, was suspicious to me. |
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Quoted: Quoted for truth. Sig's reaction likely has been overly defensive, but people have been happy to hate on Sig and the 320 since it beat Glock in the MHS trials. Actual faults with a small percentage of guns have been magnified into the idea that all 320s are waiting to blow up at any moment. It has been pretty well established at this point that all P320s are vulnerable to debris getting into the pocket formed by the "ramp" on the sear and the tail of the striker. This debris is trapped with nowhere to go. This area sits directly under a gap between the grip module and the slide plate, and so is directly exposed to environmental contaminants, particularly when the gun is muzzle down - allowing things to fall in there. Now add to that problem the loose slide to frame fit allows and the sear surfaces to move in very small amounts as the pistol is jostled around, allowing the debris to wedge the striker and sear apart and reduce the sear engagement. Further it's been shown that a LOT of P320s - not a "small percentage" - have ineffectual striker safeties. The design is one used only by Sig and not any other manufacturer (not even Sig themselves on the P365) and it is not robust. If you're in denial at this point, it's on you. |
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That video is 5 days old. It has been posted before. |
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Quoted: And an equal amount with boomer mentalities of mY sIg 32o nEvEr wEnT oFF None of my local clubs have banned the P320. Aside from the IDPA ones, if they want to stay IDPA affiliated I guess. I'm actually referring to the local ranges that host USPSA/IDPA matches, not the shooting sport organizations themselves. It's the private owners/BoDs of ranges that have to take into account how they could be legally liable for a 320 mishap on their range. I think the next shoe that will drop will be insurance companies that cover ranges sending out letters. I'm betting those letters will inform the ranges that in lieu of the reports of 320 "uncommanded firings" and determinations from the FBI/USAF/Major PDs/IDPA, etc., etc. that they will not cover the range for any liabilities due to a 320 incident. |