Posted: 11/30/2008 7:28:07 PM EDT
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hi, im writing a paper for school about law enforcement shooting incidents that changed policy/equipment for officers.
what I would like to know is if any of you know of any incidents that have caused police to receive better equipment, or change any of their policies. *the only one I have so far is the Hollywood shooting incident that spurred the need for carbines/rifles for each patrol officer. I would like to have at least 5 good situations if any of you could think of more. |
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If you'd like good info on officer involved shootings, google active shooter.
Charles Whitman's little incident at the University of Texas at Austin helped pave the way for modern day SWAT. Tsuyama massacre (Japan, 1938): Mutsuo Toi, using an old Japanese rifle and swords, killed 30[2] and then himself in an hour and a half. University of Texas massacre (United States, 1966): Charles Whitman, a student at the University of Texas at Austin killed 14 people and wounded 31 others as part of a shooting rampage from the observation deck of the University's 32-story administrative building. He did this shortly after murdering his wife and mother. He was eventually shot and killed by Austin police. Uireyeong massacre (South Korea, 1982): Woo Bum-kon killed 57 and then himself in eight hours, using grenades and an M1 Carbine. Hungerford massacre (United Kingdom, 1987): Michael Robert Ryan, using two semi-automatic assault rifles and a handgun, killed 16 people and wounded 15 others in a space of 7 hours before shooting himself. Aramoana Massacre (New Zealand, 1990): David Gray, using a (Norinco .223 AK) semi-automatic assault rifle killed 13 people on 13 November. He was shot and killed by police the following day after a 22 hour stand off. Port Arthur massacre (Australia, 1996): Martin Bryant, using an AR-15 and an L1A1 SLR, killed 35 and injured 19 in five hours before being arrested by the Special Operations Group of the Tasmanian Police. Red Lake High School massacre (United States of America,2005):Jeff Weise, Grandfather and grandfather's mistresses are shot dead, it has the gun in the house, it invades the school, and the gun is fired at random. After seven people had been murdered, it committed suicide. Virginia Tech massacre (United States, 2007): Seung-Hui Cho, using two pistols, killed 32 and then himself in the course of about three hours. Akihabara massacre (Japan, 2008): Tomohiro Kato drove a two-ton rented truck into a crowd of pedestrians, then left the truck and stabbed at least 12 people in the area. Seven people were killed in the attack. I guess I should say that this is all from Wiki. |
| The FBI shotoout in Miami led to the introduction of the 40 s and w round in a roundabout way. wiki article |
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The lessons learned there wrote the Active Shooter program. I'm sure a few agencies were able to get long guns because of it too.
University of Texas tower shootings- case for long guns/Special Response Teams/Counter Snipers Another long gun case was a court house shooting in Tyler. Tx. Sorry man I'm a little rusty on the details for that one. I just remember there was a shoot out, where a suspect was hit several times with handgun rounds, and it took a rifle to put him down. |
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The lessons learned there wrote the Active Shooter program. I'm sure a few agencies were able to get long guns because of it too. University of Texas tower shootings- case for long guns/Special Response Teams/Counter Snipers Another long gun case was a court house shooting in Tyler. Tx. Sorry man I'm a little rusty on the details for that one. I just remember there was a shoot out, where a suspect was hit several times with handgun rounds, and it took a rifle to put him down. Sgt. Rusty Jacks fired two shots from his AR that took down David Aroillo after he shot and killed a CHL holder outside the Smith County court house. |
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The FBI shotoout in Miami led to the introduction of the 40 s and w round in a roundabout way. wiki article And started the importance of training shooting and reloading with the off hand if the dominant hand is unusable. |
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ok, so far i have...
north Hollywood: need for high powered rifles columbine: active shooter techniques Waco: changed the type of teargas used, as well as better siege tactics Texas university: need for SWAT 1986 FBI Miami shootout: led to the introduction of the .40S&W/ removal of revolvers as primary sidearms, and introduction of higher capacity auto loaders |
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The FBI shotoout in Miami led to the introduction of the 40 s and w round in a roundabout way. wiki article WIKI is wrong on occasion. The FBI realized that 38 snubnose revolvers are not a proper main gun. The FBI also realized that their training methods were in need of updating. The FBI also realized that they needed to issue semi auto handguns instead of revolvers. The one of the suspects had received 2 357 magnum rounds to the heart and continued to shoot at agents for another minute. The biggest realization for the FBI after the shootout was the need for higher capacity handguns (semi auto), the need for a more powerful standard cartridge (38 spc=9 mm and both equal weak man stoppers) so the FBI chose the 10mm because there was no in between at the time. After realizing that the 10 over penetrated and had too much recoil for smaller agents, they partnered with S&W to create the 40 S&W. |
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The FBI shotoout in Miami led to the introduction of the 40 s and w round in a roundabout way. wiki article WIKI is wrong on occasion. The FBI realized that 38 snubnose revolvers are not a proper main gun. The FBI also realized that their training methods were in need of updating. The FBI also realized that they needed to issue semi auto handguns instead of revolvers. The one of the suspects had received 2 357 magnum rounds to the heart and continued to shoot at agents for another minute. The biggest realization for the FBI after the shootout was the need for higher capacity handguns (semi auto), the need for a more powerful standard cartridge (38 spc=9 mm and both equal weak man stoppers) so the FBI chose the 10mm because there was no in between at the time. After realizing that the 10 over penetrated and had too much recoil for smaller agents, they partnered with S&W to create the 40 S&W. was the .45 not considered because there was no "high capacity" version at the time? |
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More of a localized change, but in 2004, a Richardson, TX (suburb of Dallas, TX) bank was robbed and resulted in a chase w/ shots fired at pursuing police. The robbers changed cars multiple times during the pursuit and would use suppressive fire while they changed vehicles. They also got away.
This resulted in many local departments authorizing rifles for patrol officers. One department had rifles, but they were locked in supervisor vehicles and were supposed to be distributed out during an incident. This policy was changed after the robbery. One article about the incident |
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Here in TN a few years ago there was a shootout where the perp had an ar15. The cops didn't have patrol rifles and were outgunned to that degree. After the incident the locals took up collections and bought all the cops AR's. It was in Brentwood IIRC.
eta: here you go |
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North Hollywood Bank Robbery and Shootout - Similar to TN above learn to better arm LE, Adapt Improvise and Overcome. Use what is around you to survive and get those injured out.
Platte Canyon High School to Nickel Mines, PA hostage and shootings. Platte Canyon simple barricades to stop the LE advance into the classroom, then a week or so later Nickel Mines advanced barricades to stop LE advance. The bad guys learn from was done before them, so LE must prepare for the next thing not just react with training from the last event. Beslan Russia and now India - Long Duration Siege, 4th Generation Warfare. Beslan Russia - One of the LE or Military responders had to shoot a child in the leg to keep him from running into an area that was under heavy machine gun fire where he would have most certainly been killed. Talk about a decision to make in a split second, are we ready for something like this? Stay Safe |
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hi, im writing a paper for school about law enforcement shooting incidents that changed policy/equipment for officers. what I would like to know is if any of you know of any incidents that have caused police to receive better equipment, or change any of their policies. *the only one I have so far is the Hollywood shooting incident that spurred the need for carbines/rifles for each patrol officer. I would like to have at least 5 good situations if any of you could think of more. We-ll.........., I'd say, IMHO, that the terrorism against military units overseas in the Reagan Administration led to the creation of my job that I had in military police. Now, whether sieges, kidnappings, bomb ambushes, attempted assassinations with MG's, or truck bombs constitute an active shooting ...... well that can be debatable. Two things about that job. First of all, I was the first permanently assigned or detailed commissioned officer for the job of security officer at a small command which was part of a larger, presidigous command in the Washington Naval District. Before me, the question had gone back and forth of how to handle security at the command, other officers had been assigned the task as secondary to their primary designation .... and had often left the job as soon as they could. When I arrived, as an Intel/EWO rotating off sea duty, the unit essentially existed but essentially consisted of a 1st class Petty Officer reporting for the unit to the XO. I was the new officer responsible for starting up the unit and expanding it for the new mission that got handed to it. That new mission, secondly to this post, as anti-terrrorism. How do we make our military bases less attractive as targets to terrorists? Long story short, we formed augmentation platoons (ASF), got the proper people in to train them such as USMC, trained them on combat marksmanship, hand to hand, combat first aid, and so forth. Now, before one says, well, that's the military, that's what one always does ..... these were sailors, one doesn't always does that (special warfare and the like units aside), back then, outside of boot camp. But what brought this about? I would say two things but granted, I am talking from memory of about 20 years ago and as such, it is probably more my opinion. First of all, during the 80's, one had a rash of terrorist attacks against US military units and personnel. General Dozier, General Haig, the USO attack in Naples, terrorists on a motorcycle trying to take out an AF courier, Beirut, the 1985 attack of the Colombian Supreme Court* and so forth. So that could have been the motivation. Secondly, General Alfred M. Gray, Jr., Commandant of the USMC, changed policy by stating that the Marines were not responsible for USN security. This happened about the time I got my job. (Remember, this is from memory, so take it with a grain of salt). Basically, this changed policy. A change of tactics? Well, I will leave that for another. *The November 1985 attack of the Colombian Supreme Court (Palace of Justice siege) might not or might be called an attack against US military units. At the time of the attack, it was thought to have been done by the drug lords and US military units were involved in active sea patrols off of Colombia. My unit had participated in the capture of smugglers who were administratively released in Colombia because this incident had everyone in the country nervous to say the least. This incident was presented as part of my anti terrorism training but in the aftermath over the years, it appears that in the Palace of Justice siege the militant unit M-19 was responsible. IMHO, however, if this incident was another motivator during the Reagan administration, I believe they would have been motivated more by believing that the opposing forces were the drug lords. ____________________________________________ ("Is this trip business or pleasure?"––Customs official "Pleasure, I hope."––Terrorist Wulfgar, (w,stte), "Nighthawks") |
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Beslan Russia and now India - Long Duration Siege, 4th Generation Warfare. Beslan Russia - One of the LE or Military responders had to shoot a child in the leg to keep him from running into an area that was under heavy machine gun fire where he would have most certainly been killed. Talk about a decision to make in a split second, are we ready for something like this? Stay Safe Three things on this. With India, we might be able to say that the terrorists were able to establish their barricades before the commandos responded. Might for those details won't be available for months and even if they are, they won't be for open forum discussion. At any rate, in comparison to Beslan, okay, a similar situation. But secondly, one of the problems with Beslan was that perimeter security did not exist. Spetsnaz had interferrence, to say the least, from civilians such as family members of the hostages. Did a perimeter failure occur in India as well? Finally, I will have to check my notes but wasn't the attempt the wound the child a failure? Did not the child still move into the terrorist kill zone and was therefore shot? Two other items on the final point. I believe that there are those SWAT officers who, if they had to, are ready to make such a decision. However ........ what will be the lawsuit aftermath if such a decision has to be made? We might think little of lawsuits in an active situation but might we want to think ahead to head off the intense analysis over 3 months for a decision that is made in 10 seconds? _____________________________________________________ ("None of this information is in the Matrix."––Chancellor Borusa "Correct, but how would you know? You haven't been there (linked with the Matrix); I have!"––The Doctor, (w,stte), Dr. Who "The Deadly Assassin") |
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My point with these was for LE to start thinking asymmetrically. Not everything will be black and white (even now it isn't) and there will be some major gray areas. Some (not all) agencies have such strict absolute policies (thanks to lawsuits and media) that the way officers do work on a daily basis will be how they respond in a large scale incident or very public incident.
The responder who made the choice to shoot the child was not a failure because he saved that child's life by doing so. Again it is just to stimulate some thinking as we are moving into the realm of 4th Gen Warfare. I am sure many have made this decision where it is calm and we can think through the process, but in combat/survival stress your midbrain is the boss and things can be seen very differently, but we can train the midbrain. Train Hard and Train to Win - Stay Safe |
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Quoted:......The responder who made the choice to shoot the child was not a failure because he saved that child's life by doing so. Again it is just to stimulate some thinking as we are moving into the realm of 4th Gen Warfare. I am sure many have made this decision where it is calm and we can think through the process, but in combat/survival stress your midbrain is the boss and things can be seen very differently, but we can train the midbrain.
Train Hard and Train to Win - Stay Safe I did not mean to indicate that the responder was a failure; what I was saying that I believe the child was not saved, that he still went back into the field of fire ....... but I will have to check my notes on that to be sure. Of a related point, I recall a story from childhood of a WWII fighter pilot who shot down an American bomber or cargo plane to prevent it from landing at a Japanese held airfield. The latter pilot apparently did not know that it was in enemy hands. I don't know if the story is accurate or not but if so ...... then at least in our past, we have situations of similar situations. Finally, with my comment about the lawsuits, I was suggesting that may be we could think ahead and find a way to disable such items for such situations so they aren't second guessing us and restricting us in the aftermath one situation with situations that might follow. |
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Finally, with my comment about the lawsuits, I was suggesting that may be we could think ahead and find a way to disable such items for such situations so they aren't second guessing us and restricting us in the aftermath one situation with situations that might follow.
Yep that is exactly what needs to happens, but will it, more than likely no, but it something to work towards. A responder will react the same in a high/survival stress situation as he has been taught. If that teaching includes the consequence of certain actions that are done on a daily basis those same actions will be carried over to the survival stress situation. Even with all the training from WMD to Active Shooters responders are still being set up to fail because of lawsuits and the media. I think all Warriors will do what is right at the right time to save lives and deal with the consequences later. |
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Didn't Chicago PD recently increase rifle procurement/availability in response to upswing in perp use of rifles/increased violent homicide?
I believe 9/11 also created a greater awareness in LE. Those who didn't learn from Columbine probably learned from 9/11. Some departments still do not allow anything more than a standard shotgun/pistol for regular patrol. An interesting addendum might include what those hold out agencies will have to experience before they issue a long gun. |
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The FBI shotoout in Miami led to the introduction of the 40 s and w round in a roundabout way. wiki article WIKI is wrong on occasion. The FBI realized that 38 snubnose revolvers are not a proper main gun. The FBI also realized that their training methods were in need of updating. The FBI also realized that they needed to issue semi auto handguns instead of revolvers. The one of the suspects had received 2 357 magnum rounds to the heart and continued to shoot at agents for another minute. The biggest realization for the FBI after the shootout was the need for higher capacity handguns (semi auto), the need for a more powerful standard cartridge (38 spc=9 mm and both equal weak man stoppers) so the FBI chose the 10mm because there was no in between at the time. After realizing that the 10 over penetrated and had too much recoil for smaller agents, they partnered with S&W to create the 40 S&W. was the .45 not considered because there was no "high capacity" version at the time? I personally believe that the FBI overreacted and went for the 10mm, it has ballistic superiority over the other rounds including the 45. The FBI wanted rounds that would penetrate car doors and still have sufficient power to penetrate 10 inches or more into a person. The reason that most police departments switched from the 38 to the 9 was for capacity 15-17 rounds versus 6 is a easy choice. The thing about it was the 9 and the 38 have about the same stopping power. The FBI wanted more stopping power than the 9 offered, but they also wanted a high capacity handgun as well. |