[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Immigration Question (POLL) (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/20/2007 12:17:21 AM EDT
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Very simple question: Supposing, by WHATEVER MEANS, we managed to get a lid on illegal immigration in this country... e.g. HYPOTHETICALLY, we have basically eliminated illegal immigration. In that HYPOTHETICAL situation, where illegal immigration HAS BEEN DEALT WITH, would you support allowing anyone who can pass a full background check in to this country LEGALLY to work, with the possibility of future citizenship if they stay out of legal trouble, and the understanding that they would not be given access to entitlements as non-citizens? Simple question, yes or no? Remember, HYPOTHETICALLY the ILLEGALS have been dealt with, and the new LEGAL immigrants would not be eligable for welfare.... |
I assumed much of the same requirements still applied. Just a little more lax. A few less hoops and all. |
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Yes I've got zero problem with folks who want to come here and be Americans. I just friggin hate the ones who come here illegally and leech off of the taxpayers without giving anything back , and who absolutely refuse to assimilate into American culture. Good question BTW. 
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Yep - A few less hoops, and no quotas/limits on the NUMBER that can come in, or where they can come from (with a few national-security exceptions, of course)... Think 'do your papers, get checked out, and get your results in about a month' (similar to the time it takes to run a Form 4).... That's what I intended for this scenario... |
Sounds pretty good to me. Results should be pretty interesting. |
So far, no tone post by the 'NO' side... And a hell of a large under vote... I wonder why? |
| Background check, medical exams, fingerprinting, all that fun stuff, and I'd be cool with it. Give them a defined road to citizenship along the lines of, "You have x years to learn English, learn some stuff about this country, and hold a job for however long. After that you can swear loyalty to the US and become a citizen." |
Your hypothetical statement is no longer hypothetical ... i.e. all legal immigrants *MUST* go through all those stuff!! And MORE!! |
You missed the point of my hypotehtical... What I am saying (again, to make sure everybody gets it) is this: IN A HYPOTEHTICAL SITUATION WHERE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN DEAL TWITH Would you support essentially UNLIMITED legal immigration, subject to the post above? I would... |
Yeah, you wouldn't have to drive 200 miles between fill-ups anywhere on the interstate anymore...  Take a look at the US from space... We are nowhere NEAR full.. The US can handle a population of between 600 to 800 million without giving up our house-and-two-cars lifestyle... As cities fill up, people move out and found new development... We have lots of spare land.... |
+1 /endthread |
Soooo......you actually have NO friggin idea how the world works, do you? 
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No, people bitch about the fact that their high-school dropout ass can't make $25/hr pushing a broom... Also, this is not about Mexico - this about EVERYONE, from EVERYWHERE, from cheap labor to college professors (like our own DK-Prof) who wants to be an American (or at least live and work here legally).... Further, Mexico's problems have to do with political corruption, not the cost of labor... |
I have a good idea how it is SUPPOSED to work... From my political point of view, the only bad immigration is ILLEGAL immigration (border jumping, visa overstays, and so on)... We do have huge amounts of undeveloped space, and a relatively low population density... People continue to spread out away from cities into outlying suburbs, which become cities of their own, and repeat the process... At least everywhere I've lived, that's how it is... |
The United States is not a NIGHTCLUB The illegals are OVERWHELMING our social services AND, our schools, AND our hospitals, AND our prisons, AND our LEOs a city, county or a country is like a terrarium, balances are important the feds try to make up for "shortfalls" but with the illegals they want to have their cake, eat it too, tax it, take out a loan on it, AND give us the bill Yeah, the United States IS full, it is full of people sucking out its resources......... (the equation was barely balanced BEFORE 20 million hungry illegals showed up) |
Phrased this way my answer is no. Would I support allowing more legal immigrants annually than present under the same terms? Yes as long as it is in moderation and they are either relatives of citizens or have skills our society needs. |
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1. need to speak English 2. need to have some demonstrable job skill set or or able to pass a GED exam 3. need to not be criminals running from the laws of their country i don't think any of those are too much to ask. any person that is serious about wanting to become an American citizen can meet all of those requirements before ever stepping foot in our country if they are serious about it. if they meet those criteria, allow as many of them as want to come in |
22, this thread is about LEGAL immigration... Stay within the hypothetical that the ILLEGAL problem was solved... There is a point to this... |
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It's a tough question. On the one hand, our population is aging. Without lots of immigrants, entitlement spending is going to swamp us. Higher taxes, less benefits = lots of angry people. But more and more immigration from "somewhere else" and an aging US population = the death of America. Even though that would be after I'm gone (hopefully), i don't want to see it. But since the Dems will want to soak me because, with my own savings, I'll be "rich", I have to vote Yes. Bring 'em in, and let them pay the taxes to try to hold the whole mess together for another generation. |
Anyone? Without any restrictions on the total number of people? Absolutely not. There are 6 billion people in the world, a good 50% of them would come to the United States given half a chance, and most of those people could pass a background chech. |
No - because that potentially opens the door for an endless flood, which could undermine the labor market and gradually drag wages down, IMO. There has to be restriction on numbers, based on market demand for certain professions, or other rules - and while some might be allowed in permanently, temporary "work permits" probably make more sense in the agricultureal sector. |
Allowing unlimited legal or legal immigration is insanity, especially with the modern effect of the 14th Amendment being to spawn anchor babies. Tell us Dave, how do you think unlimited immigration would benefit the United States and it's institutions? |
From a pure-and-unimpeded-capitalisim point of view, all protectionism is bad Rather than artificially restricting the labor pool to prop up wages, we should let wages float completely, and let the labor pool float completely... No preferences, no quotas - let the free market decide... As for government institutions, I believe that entitlements should be reserved for Citizens... So that's a side point (note in this scenario, the part about no entitlements)... Our population would balance out at where it is supposed to be, the 'controlling' factor would be the availability of employment - since one could not get welfare as a non-citizen, they would have to make their own way or leave... |
MY point was that FULL is not a geographic determination resources play an important part of "full" not just landspace IMO we are overloaded, we need LESS "immigrants" legal or otherwise I keep "playing" your games, you DON'T answer all the posts directed at YOU Although, I should expect you to avoid the tough questions, shouldn't I? Go ahead and make your point, I expect it will be as "enlightening" as your A WALL WON'T WORK...........OR HELP |
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Hell no. It would be worse than it is now, just that all the ppl would be legal. Plus we would be taking on millions more from every country on the planet thats been wanting/trying to come here, but couldn`t conveniently walk over. We are choked to death with diversity and all the problems that come with it already. I would not wish that on any people. And all that open space land is a good thing, People have to be able to get away from everyone else from time to time. |
Welfare? What about the culture? Because you can`t take on huge amounts of different ppl and not have that change. How are they going to vote? How is this going to change our Country? Who isn`t a U.S. Citizen in your idea? Looks like suicide to me Dave. |
| Regarding our being "full" and the contention that we have lots of space. Well, much of that space is called "the breadbasket of the world". That space is actually producing something - - our food and the food for much of the world. Their is a website called farming on the edge, that catalogs our best farmland's destruction due to urban encroachment. Some might call it alarmist, but my house is sitting on some of what was great farmland. My city is rapidly gobbling up all the surrounding farmland for homes. As someone said, its not just about space, its about resources. |
We need legal immigration, that's the only reason this country is so great. There's a nursing shortage of 1 million nurses. My wife is an RN and she can't get anyone around here to work - too lazy, don't give a shit and when you put the screws to them they jump to another hospital. The Canadian nurses she hires are night and day in terms of work ethic. She might get 2 or 3 out 10 locally that are good but never has a problem the Canadians. In ther long term it's cheaper (private hospitals, not socialist here) for her to get the Canadians and pay for their green cards than to continually train nurses that are worthless and when they fuck up dish out millions in lawsuits. |
| I want immigration cut to the bone. An annual net immigration of 200,000 or so would suit me just fine. No, legal immigration should not increased, and it should certainly not be an option available to anyone with enough money for a plane ride. America simply has too many foreigners already, and at the very least, we should take a good long time to see if, how, and to what extent they can be assimilated. Assimilation takes at least three generations; judging from the Mexican-American experience, it can take a great deal longer than that. Yes, the descendants of Mexican immigrants learn English, but they also don't graduate high school, let alone college, and have extremely high rates of crime and illegitimacy. Which is to say that there is such a thing as bad assimilation - where the descendants of hardworking, relatively law-abiding immigrants assimilate toward underclass norms of behavior and to a politics based on class and ethnic resentment. |
They aren't going to move into the middle of the desert, they'd all flock to the cities so that argument doesn't really make sense. We couldn't afford to school all the kids. We'd have elderly coming in here and leeching off social security, welfare and Medicare that have never paid into those systems. It would be a nightmare. I say don't let them in unless they are educated will be working for the next 10+ years or have the means to get educated on their own dime(in other words, we don't have a 17 year old coming in with a 6 year olds education, he's coming in at around his age groups level of education and will be moving further through our system). |
| It must be added that, to those who think of the US as a vast expanse of empty space that much of what is empty is empty for a reason. Quite often it's because there's not enough water, or because the weather's awful, or the topography is unfavorable. Also, much of what appears "empty" is growing food, fiber, or timber. In any event, there are severe problems with supplying water to the burgeoning population of California and the southwest. One wonders where the water for another 50 or 100 million people in that region will come from. Perhaps we can revive the crackpot schemes of the 1970s, and drain the Great Lakes so that Harry Reid's undocumented Americans can live in the desert in defiance of nature with their lawns and swimming pools. Anything's possible, right? The Market (PBUH) will provide. |
We need BOTH quantity and quality to drive the US economic growth engine. The Mexican immigrants - legal and otherwise - will fall from roughly 1,000,000 per year to roughly 500,000 per year. The Mexican birth rate* is almost as low as that of the US. Couple that with the boomer retirement bubble and we're going to be short workers. T *In several other posts, I've said SUPPLY from Mexico must be addressed to really solve immigration problems. The declining Mexican birth rate will cure the supply problem. |
Read the hypothetical again... They are non-citizens first, if they become good, functional members of society they get to become Citizens later (just like it is now)... Under said scenario they would not be eligible for welfare, so that's a non-issue.... |
Nice try,,, My point has nothing to do with walls... Because we are talking about LEGAL immigration here.... |
The government also excessively subsidizes agriculture out of a desire to keep an economic over-abundance of farmers in business... |