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Quoted: And there in lies the rub. 18.21 is still an absurdly low average salary for this trade. Its going to come to a head sooner then later. You have major gas station chains like Sheetz offering 14.75 starting to stand at a cash register, and you have to wonder why anyone is going to bother going into what used to be a good paying profession, and killing themselves to make little more then the guy working at 7-11. But for some reason the sentiment that a lot of boomers on GD and in the Republican party feel is "hard work is it's own reward". But what the fuck are you working hard for? How am I ever going to be able to afford a house and new car on 34k a year? (That's what I will make after taxes). Then you have people like my wife, who does medical coding for 13 bucks an hour. She took a 6 hour written test on the coding, passed to get her license and was told "oops sorry no raises this year because of Covid" all while claiming over 1million in PPE funds (my company took 5 and a half and canceled bonuses on top of a raise freeze). Both her and my company made record profits this past year. She's now doing two people's jobs and making 22k a year after taxes. Her last job for a newspaper company owned by the Berkshire Hathaway group, literally had a woman retire, giving my wife her entire workload on top of doing the job she was hired to do, AND she had to work one hour a day covering reception while the receptionist went to lunch. They offered her a nickel an hour more to stay.. (She was making 11.50 there) That's with a college degree that's apparently worth little more then a GED to employers now. So personally I have a really hard time feeling bad for companies that paid starvation wages for a decade or longer, crying now that the government that forced them to go on unemployment in the first place is giving them enough money to pay all their bills AND afford to eat at an applebee's. Who would want to go back to being spit at for not including enough bbq packets, or being called a loser by some welfare queen when it takes longer then 5 minutes to make 16 happy meals. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That really sucks man and that sounds like a shitty company to work for. I just did some quick internet searching and it looks like the average salary for a welder in VA is $18.21. Those are some good looking welds, so obviously you got some skill. I’d move on to greener pastures. And there in lies the rub. 18.21 is still an absurdly low average salary for this trade. Its going to come to a head sooner then later. You have major gas station chains like Sheetz offering 14.75 starting to stand at a cash register, and you have to wonder why anyone is going to bother going into what used to be a good paying profession, and killing themselves to make little more then the guy working at 7-11. But for some reason the sentiment that a lot of boomers on GD and in the Republican party feel is "hard work is it's own reward". But what the fuck are you working hard for? How am I ever going to be able to afford a house and new car on 34k a year? (That's what I will make after taxes). Then you have people like my wife, who does medical coding for 13 bucks an hour. She took a 6 hour written test on the coding, passed to get her license and was told "oops sorry no raises this year because of Covid" all while claiming over 1million in PPE funds (my company took 5 and a half and canceled bonuses on top of a raise freeze). Both her and my company made record profits this past year. She's now doing two people's jobs and making 22k a year after taxes. Her last job for a newspaper company owned by the Berkshire Hathaway group, literally had a woman retire, giving my wife her entire workload on top of doing the job she was hired to do, AND she had to work one hour a day covering reception while the receptionist went to lunch. They offered her a nickel an hour more to stay.. (She was making 11.50 there) That's with a college degree that's apparently worth little more then a GED to employers now. So personally I have a really hard time feeling bad for companies that paid starvation wages for a decade or longer, crying now that the government that forced them to go on unemployment in the first place is giving them enough money to pay all their bills AND afford to eat at an applebee's. Who would want to go back to being spit at for not including enough bbq packets, or being called a loser by some welfare queen when it takes longer then 5 minutes to make 16 happy meals. I have a lot of empathy for those with jobs wrecked by Inflation. However, your lack of perspective is eroding your motivation so badly, it’s going to destroy any chance of success. You literally just started a new career. Every job has dues which must be paid. You don’t just magically qualify for a new car and a “middle-class life”. You’re going to have to job hop a few times, and maybe move to a different region. It’s not a new phenomenon. People of every generation had to earn it over Decades of hard work. It’s never been easy for the working class, but it’s weird how people have lost perspective and lost hope. |
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Quoted: @jollyg83 Welding. I have shared this before but I'll share it again because I don't think people here understand there are guy's like me who are hungry, wanting the middle class life we were told was achiavble with Trade work who will either learn something else in the next 5 years or keep bouncing job to job until we find somewhere that values our skills. After 15 years in land surveying I switched trades, and I finished trade school and started in the new field a month and a half ago. 15 an hour. In that month they decided that because of the increased workload and deadline from it being "the most profitable year ever" they are canceling our 3 Saturday's off a month schedule that they had just started when I joined. Now not only do we work 10's but we now will work Saturday's until next year.. And the week after they told us that we were "not being productive enough" both the 1st and 2nd shift department heads took a week of vacation (not that they work Saturday's anyways). I paid my own way through school, got AWS D1.1 certified in all uphill for 3 processes, including fluxcore and graduated with a 4.0 I agreed to 15 because the schedule was manageable with the 3 weekends off, and a healthcare plan that is covered by the employer. AFTER I hired in I find out the health plan sucks (2k deductible), AND a kid I went to school with, who had 3 months of experience at a different company (that he was fired from) started at 17 and also started with a week of vacation (I have to wait 6 months) because his mom is best friends with the HR lady and his uncle golfs with the president of the company. Not to mention finding out that most of the guys working there, were paid 17-18 and had been there for upwards of 3 years. AND they apparently canceled the Christmas bonus last year after not closing at all for Covid, and for the past year they had been working 10's and Saturdays. I'll likely use it as a way to gain experience for the next place. I just got certified on a forklift and at the end of the year I'll be moving on to greener pastures. There's no way they will ever pay what we're worth, and when the new 15 buck minimum wage kicks in I suspect I'll be making 2 bucks more then a burger flipper at Wendy's. Not worth it. The trades have been raped by low wages for years. If you do the math and factor inflation, I'm making the equivalent of 12.75 in 2016. https://i.imgflip.com/5e3i72.jpg View Quote Another one for starting your own business. I was the exact same as you. Started my own shop in my 2 car garage, and 6 months later was doing it full time. A year after starting we bought a commercial property, and now 6 years later we're up to 20k sq ft of business. There are so many paths to success in welding, fabrication, whatever. Watch the auctions and get some good used equipment. You got this. Your grammar is good so all you need to do is get started, get some traction, and get that business plan written up. You're like 90% there already. Just need to put all your skills to work in tandem. Network with people in your past career, current, and use that to your advantage as much as possible. |
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Quoted: I have a lot of empathy for those with jobs wrecked by Inflation. However, your lack of perspective is eroding your motivation so badly, it’s going to destroy any chance of success. You literally just started a new career. Every job has dues which must be paid. You don’t just magically qualify for a new car and a “middle-class life”. You’re going to have to job hop a few times, and maybe move to a different region. It’s not a new phenomenon. People of every generation had to earn it over Decades of hard work. It’s never been easy for the working class, but it’s weird how people have lost perspective and lost hope. View Quote See thats not actually the issue. I like the job, the people hell even the facility. But I also look around and see the guys I work with who are fantastic workers and welders, making the same as the dude who just started and "knew the right people" and anyone in their right mind would question the future. Just how long should I wait to get paid what I'm worth? 1 year? 5? 10? I know that if a guy whose worked here for 3 years is making 17, what can I realistically expect? And is it worth it to me to never have a weekend off all while being underpaid? The longer this goes on, the more inflation goes up the less I make. Call it hubris if you want. But at 30 I'm done being a renter and driving 20 year old cars. |
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Same here. With FFP contracts, you cannot compete and will lose staff. We have seen team members that were here for more than 15 years just suddenly up and go. Got paid more, a lot more across the street. Contracts that were negotiated 5 years ago just cannot compete anymore.
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Quoted: Preach. I'll accept some salary compression in return for being at a job long enough to get very effective and if I'm learning and developing myself. There's a reason job hopping used to be looked down on - it stunts the development that would otherwise turn people into the highly capable late 30s/early 40s leaders that really drive the direction of an org. But staying somewhere means there's two parties to that transaction. If companies are taking advantage of the people who stay, then screw them. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Part of the problem is they haven't given base salary raises to VPs for the last 3 years. They've increased compensation in other ways (for example, the bonus target was raised from 35% to 50% for next year), BUT the new VP benefits from that AND the market rate increases. I don't work for peanuts and make good money, so I'm not going to get pissy about $15k yet, but I'm worried that this is the start of generalized inflation of around 10% and that I'm falling behind the curve with base salary. Preach. I'll accept some salary compression in return for being at a job long enough to get very effective and if I'm learning and developing myself. There's a reason job hopping used to be looked down on - it stunts the development that would otherwise turn people into the highly capable late 30s/early 40s leaders that really drive the direction of an org. But staying somewhere means there's two parties to that transaction. If companies are taking advantage of the people who stay, then screw them. I’m worried the salary compression turns into more than that, as career paths get roadblocked as well. I’ve been pigeonholed before and now to fly this time much earlier. |
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I evaluate my position and pay yearly with a raise proposal to my boss in the same timeframe. Nothing OP posted is anything new. Even in the 2012-2015 timeframe where lawyer pay was terrible in Florida, the same tactics were routinely used.
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Quoted: See thats not actually the issue. I like the job, the people hell even the facility. But I also look around and see the guys I work with who are fantastic workers and welders, making the same as the dude who just started and "knew the right people" and anyone in their right mind would question the future. Just how long should I wait to get paid what I'm worth? 1 year? 5? 10? I know that if a guy whose worked here for 3 years is making 17, what can I realistically expect? And is it worth it to me to never have a weekend off all while being underpaid? The longer this goes on, the more inflation goes up the less I make. Call it hubris if you want. But at 30 I'm done being a renter and driving 20 year old cars. View Quote |
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Quoted: Being down 6000 a year at 1% claimed inflation means you make 600k a year. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I changed companies last April and per the Dept. of Labor's inflation data, I am currently down nearly $500/mo from where I started 14 months ago. That's nuts. Being down 6000 a year at 1% claimed inflation means you make 600k a year. Not everyone here makes 7 figure incomes ![]() |
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Quoted: $20 bucks an hour is supposed to be ''good'' pay? And right there is the problem. No welders, no product, no management bonuses, no business at some point. Personally, at $20 an hour, I'm not even getting my A/C gauges and hoses out of the vehicle. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just genuinely curious what trade you work in that’s under paid? Every tradesmen I know, mostly electricians, make damn good money for the area. @jollyg83 Welding. I have shared this before but I'll share it again because I don't think people here understand there are guy's like me who are hungry, wanting the middle class life we were told was achiavble with Trade work who will either learn something else in the next 5 years or keep bouncing job to job until we find somewhere that values our skills. After 15 years in land surveying I switched trades, and I finished trade school and started in the new field a month and a half ago. 15 an hour. In that month they decided that because of the increased workload and deadline from it being "the most profitable year ever" they are canceling our 3 Saturday's off a month schedule that they had just started when I joined. Now not only do we work 10's but we now will work Saturday's until next year.. And the week after they told us that we were "not being productive enough" both the 1st and 2nd shift department heads took a week of vacation (not that they work Saturday's anyways). I paid my own way through school, got AWS D1.1 certified in all uphill for 3 processes, including fluxcore and graduated with a 4.0 I agreed to 15 because the schedule was manageable with the 3 weekends off, and a healthcare plan that is covered by the employer. AFTER I hired in I find out the health plan sucks (2k deductible), AND a kid I went to school with, who had 3 months of experience at a different company (that he was fired from) started at 17 and also started with a week of vacation (I have to wait 6 months) because his mom is best friends with the HR lady and his uncle golfs with the president of the company. Not to mention finding out that most of the guys working there, were paid 17-18 and had been there for upwards of 3 years. AND they apparently canceled the Christmas bonus last year after not closing at all for Covid, and for the past year they had been working 10's and Saturdays. I'll likely use it as a way to gain experience for the next place. I just got certified on a forklift and at the end of the year I'll be moving on to greener pastures. There's no way they will ever pay what we're worth, and when the new 15 buck minimum wage kicks in I suspect I'll be making 2 bucks more then a burger flipper at Wendy's. Not worth it. The trades have been raped by low wages for years. If you do the math and factor inflation, I'm making the equivalent of 12.75 in 2016. https://i.imgflip.com/5e3i72.jpg At least around here, shop welders have generally not been paid great. Field work and DOT work though, those guys make bank. Specialty work seems to pay okay too. I know a guy that TIG welded water filtration systems and at the time was making over $20/hr, easy work environment, set up inside, at a TIG station all day. $20 bucks an hour is supposed to be ''good'' pay? And right there is the problem. No welders, no product, no management bonuses, no business at some point. Personally, at $20 an hour, I'm not even getting my A/C gauges and hoses out of the vehicle. This was 15 years ago. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just genuinely curious what trade you work in that’s under paid? Every tradesmen I know, mostly electricians, make damn good money for the area. @jollyg83 Welding. I have shared this before but I'll share it again because I don't think people here understand there are guy's like me who are hungry, wanting the middle class life we were told was achiavble with Trade work who will either learn something else in the next 5 years or keep bouncing job to job until we find somewhere that values our skills. After 15 years in land surveying I switched trades, and I finished trade school and started in the new field a month and a half ago. 15 an hour. In that month they decided that because of the increased workload and deadline from it being "the most profitable year ever" they are canceling our 3 Saturday's off a month schedule that they had just started when I joined. Now not only do we work 10's but we now will work Saturday's until next year.. And the week after they told us that we were "not being productive enough" both the 1st and 2nd shift department heads took a week of vacation (not that they work Saturday's anyways). I paid my own way through school, got AWS D1.1 certified in all uphill for 3 processes, including fluxcore and graduated with a 4.0 I agreed to 15 because the schedule was manageable with the 3 weekends off, and a healthcare plan that is covered by the employer. AFTER I hired in I find out the health plan sucks (2k deductible), AND a kid I went to school with, who had 3 months of experience at a different company (that he was fired from) started at 17 and also started with a week of vacation (I have to wait 6 months) because his mom is best friends with the HR lady and his uncle golfs with the president of the company. Not to mention finding out that most of the guys working there, were paid 17-18 and had been there for upwards of 3 years. AND they apparently canceled the Christmas bonus last year after not closing at all for Covid, and for the past year they had been working 10's and Saturdays. I'll likely use it as a way to gain experience for the next place. I just got certified on a forklift and at the end of the year I'll be moving on to greener pastures. There's no way they will ever pay what we're worth, and when the new 15 buck minimum wage kicks in I suspect I'll be making 2 bucks more then a burger flipper at Wendy's. Not worth it. The trades have been raped by low wages for years. If you do the math and factor inflation, I'm making the equivalent of 12.75 in 2016. https://i.imgflip.com/5e3i72.jpg At least around here, shop welders have generally not been paid great. Field work and DOT work though, those guys make bank. Specialty work seems to pay okay too. I know a guy that TIG welded water filtration systems and at the time was making over $20/hr, easy work environment, set up inside, at a TIG station all day. $20 bucks an hour is supposed to be ''good'' pay? And right there is the problem. No welders, no product, no management bonuses, no business at some point. Personally, at $20 an hour, I'm not even getting my A/C gauges and hoses out of the vehicle. This was 15 years ago. And it's still probably $20................ ![]() |
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Quoted: good post lots of company cock gobblers in GD , yea it's time to start paying people companies have gotten away with it for far to long Trump gave all of them a tax break and he said they'd share the wealth guess what they didn't share shit kept it all for themselves . View Quote says the commie cock gobbler If you're not working for a company that shared with its employees, maybe it is time to do something with your self rather than gobble commie cocks ;) If your work was worth it, don't you think you would already be working for that company? I don't know you but your posts speaks volumes to the other commies in this thread |
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Quoted: They can get together with the other companies in their areas who do the same thing and all agree to only pay a certain wage, take it or leave it. That's what the companies in my industry have done. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Unless there's an incentive to work for less than the going (albeit, inflated) rate for the well-being of your company, I don't see what options they or you have. They can get together with the other companies in their areas who do the same thing and all agree to only pay a certain wage, take it or leave it. That's what the companies in my industry have done. That's illegal if you can prove it. |
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Depending on the job it is sometimes hard for an employeer to keep up with the inflation. Especially in the field I work in, only a couple of jobs per year billed. Not like contant turnover day to day on stuff. Right now it's hard to bid jobs that take a year and lock in prices cause the price is going up faster than we can keep up with it. Same with hiring someone.
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Not in medicine
In my AO jobs are fewer and pay stagnant to a bit less |
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Employees finally the upper hand. Good is about fucking time. Fuck the non paying assholes.
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Quoted: I have a feeling it will get worse as inflation heats up. I'm concerned C-suites in some places are going to be late to the party on this one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: To be clear I am not complaining about people looking for more money, it is what it is. It's just that I have never seen it quite so widespread where I work. I have a feeling it will get worse as inflation heats up. I'm concerned C-suites in some places are going to be late to the party on this one. Some....hell most of them already are. Before covid most would try to give people a 1.5-2% raise while benefits were costing more. It's going to get ugly fast and I'm already seeing professional people jump ship in droves. |
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Quoted: When they ask you to fix the problems caused by the outsourcing, that is when you negotiate a big raise, or become an independent contractor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: My employer is keeping a lid on labor costs by outsourcing more software development to contractors in India. I'm not asking for a raise, I'll be content to just keep my job. When they ask you to fix the problems caused by the outsourcing, that is when you negotiate a big raise, or become an independent contractor. In general that's good advice. In my situation the India contractors will be working on things I'm not directly involved with. For now. We were told the India contractors would only work in non-core technology areas. I knew that was a lie when I heard it. I'm "this close" to retirement so I'm not going to switch jobs over this, I enjoy what I work on quite a lot. Maybe too much. |
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Quoted: In my industry the companies are pushing wages down taking advantage of the pandemic. I was offered a job for the same position with the same company that I was with before the shutdown started at 26% lower wage. They are forcing everyone to take the same wage, no negotiations. Take it or leave it. View Quote What industry? Investment related question. |
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trades and skillsets getting paid more because burger flips get 15?
GOOD. I should be at 50 an hour. Not 35. |
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Quoted: I’m a VP where I work. I hired a director onto my team making the same base salary as me. I hired another VP onto my team and HR initially was going to offer him 35k more than my base. The ultimately reduced it to 15k over my base. I asked if he could take my role and salary and I take his role and salary and work foe him and they said no :-( View Quote And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. |
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Quoted: Word of mouth. Just like the mob, never write anything down, never have it recorded, not on the phone etc..That's what business lunches are for. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That's illegal if you can prove it. Hell even silicon valley was stupid enough to put it in writing, i'd bet these guys are no brighter. ![]() |
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Quoted: And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. Quoted: And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. We hired someone 10 years younger than me with zero experience at my senior grade because "degree". After a year when that person realized they had zero aptitude for the job, was clueless, and it couldn't be made into a desk job, they quit. |
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Quoted: $20 bucks an hour is supposed to be ''good'' pay? And right there is the problem. No welders, no product, no management bonuses, no business at some point. Personally, at $20 an hour, I'm not even getting my A/C gauges and hoses out of the vehicle. View Quote |
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Quoted: And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. View Quote It is the easy way out for HR. Bump the wage of an existing employee and everyone else at that level demands the same. Let that person sod off into the sunset and hire a newbie at rock bottom wages. They will work a few years and do the same thing, rinse and repeat. HR stays busy I mean look at all the turnover they have to deal with, they need a new HR manager and raises to deal with the workload... I mean what else would expect HR to do? It's not they can accurately track employee performance metrics and pay people according to ability and job function... pffft what kind of fairy tale is that? This is HR we are talking about, thier job is to look up salaries on glassdoor, then place compensation in the bottom third and tell management they are staying "consciously cost competative" ... sorry I may have some issues to vent here... |
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I just had a head hunter reach out to me today for engineering gigs (all require a BS ChemE or better) and the pay scales are all about $20k higher than the 2019 one he sent out, even for places like Augusta, GA. I mean, $150k for a Senior Process Engineering gig in Augusta is damned good money if memory serves. $140k for a 5 year process engineer in southern Arkansas? That's damned good.
In 2019 the GA gig would cap around $125k, the AR one maybe $110k. ![]() Transitional inflation my ass. Be prepared to job hop every year going forward, or get a job that scales with inflation (like Sales). |
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Quoted: It is the easy way out for HR. Bump the wage of an existing employee and everyone else at that level demands the same. Let that person sod off into the sunset and hire a newbie at rock bottom wages. They will work a few years and do the same thing, rinse and repeat. HR stays busy I mean look at all the turnover they have to deal with, they need a new HR manager and raises to deal with the workload... I mean what else would expect HR to do? It's not they can accurately track employee performance metrics and pay people according to ability and job function... pffft what kind of fairy tale is that? This is HR we are talking about, thier job is to look up salaries on glassdoor, then place compensation in the bottom third and tell management they are staying "consciously cost competative" ... sorry I may have some issues to vent here... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: And HR wonders why people leave.....this is their common practice and they assume they can keep it a secret somehow. If HR was on it's game they would have increased your salary to compensate, but they'd rather you leave and have to pay an new employee more. It is the easy way out for HR. Bump the wage of an existing employee and everyone else at that level demands the same. Let that person sod off into the sunset and hire a newbie at rock bottom wages. They will work a few years and do the same thing, rinse and repeat. HR stays busy I mean look at all the turnover they have to deal with, they need a new HR manager and raises to deal with the workload... I mean what else would expect HR to do? It's not they can accurately track employee performance metrics and pay people according to ability and job function... pffft what kind of fairy tale is that? This is HR we are talking about, thier job is to look up salaries on glassdoor, then place compensation in the bottom third and tell management they are staying "consciously cost competative" ... sorry I may have some issues to vent here... We may have worked for the same company.... ![]() ![]() |
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Quoted: I just had a head hunter reach out to me today for engineering gigs (all require a BS ChemE or better) and the pay scales are all about $20k higher than the 2019 one he sent out, even for places like Augusta, GA. I mean, $150k for a Senior Process Engineering gig in Augusta is damned good money if memory serves. $140k for a 5 year process engineer in southern Arkansas? That's damned good. In 2019 the GA gig would cap around $125k, the AR one maybe $110k. ![]() Transitional inflation my ass. Be prepared to job hop every year going forward, or get a job that scales with inflation (like Sales). View Quote When I was a senior ME in 2018 I was getting about 135k and that I felt was decent money in ND. I think his numbers are pretty good but not top of the scale either. |
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If a person works Friday or Sunday night they’re paying an extra $150.00 just for coming in. On holiday weekends it goes up to 300.00…and they even counted Father’s Day as a holiday weekend.
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glassdoor.com is a pretty good site to keep tabs on salaries. Some of the company reviews could be fake or made by marketing departments so take those with a grain of salt.
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Quoted: So tradesmen or others should just say "Fuck it, I'm okay working for less here, while other companies are paying more"? ![]() I'm not picking on you, cause I know payroll obligations suck. Unless there's an incentive to work for less than the going (albeit, inflated) rate for the well-being of your company, I don't see what options they or you have. View Quote I just hope they're taking total compensation into account instead of just hourly wages. I could give everyone a 10% raise at the snap of my fingers for example, if we weren't already giving that money to the employees in the ESOP. Repurchase obligations are a real cost. But does a $2.50/hr raise to go to another company with insurance that costs more and covers less, no retirement contribution and less PTO accumulation sound like an attractive proposition? Sometimes I wish benefits weren't a thing. It clouds costs and comp when comparing apples to oranges. |
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Quoted: Things are about to get real interesting at my place. In the past 2 months, we have lost: - Plant manager - Plant controller - PC&L manager - Quality manager - Operations manager - Production scheduler - Buyer Our salary headcount was 72 last year. We are now close to 50. Corporate has taken the "we aren't backfilling" approach for several other non-staff positions and people are getting sick of picking up the extra work. Combine that with 0 raises last year and low raises (like 2%) for about 70% of salary and 0% for the rest this year. My department has stayed solid, but I'm worried once the first domino falls, it's going to be catastrophic. One of my biggest hangups with leaving is that I essentially have 6 weeks of vacation (4 regular, 1 week PTO, and I "buy" a week). In talking to people I know who have left, they are getting more money, but vacation seems to be a sticking point at anything more than 3 weeks. ![]() Automotive tier 1 supplier View Quote |
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Quoted: It has been a power struggle since the first recession ended. Companies need workers but need them cheap to protect margins. When there aren’t enough workers but still busy, they try to he heavy handed to keep that power. Tides are shifting it seems though. I just got a hefty pay cut because they are hiring people who barely know how to read a tape at a wage it took me a few years to achieve and I had experience. THAT is why so many are trading up. The loyal workers get shit on and the new generation gets paid more to surf facebook. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In my industry the companies are pushing wages down taking advantage of the pandemic. I was offered a job for the same position with the same company that I was with before the shutdown started at 26% lower wage. They are forcing everyone to take the same wage, no negotiations. Take it or leave it. Interdasting ballsy move on the companies part I don't think its going to go the way they think companies answer to price increases across the board is to pay people a lower wage not very bright of them . It has been a power struggle since the first recession ended. Companies need workers but need them cheap to protect margins. When there aren’t enough workers but still busy, they try to he heavy handed to keep that power. Tides are shifting it seems though. I just got a hefty pay cut because they are hiring people who barely know how to read a tape at a wage it took me a few years to achieve and I had experience. THAT is why so many are trading up. The loyal workers get shit on and the new generation gets paid more to surf facebook. Time to move on. If you prove more valuable than the noobs, don't be surprized if you get a call after you move. |
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Quoted: No, I don't begrudge anyone leaving for greener pastures. The truth is that sometimes there just isn't money available or positions for advancement. I just hope they're taking total compensation into account instead of just hourly wages. I could give everyone a 10% raise at the snap of my fingers for example, if we weren't already giving that money to the employees in the ESOP. Repurchase obligations are a real cost. But does a $2.50/hr raise to go to another company with insurance that costs more and covers less, no retirement contribution and less PTO accumulation sound like an attractive proposition? Sometimes I wish benefits weren't a thing. It clouds costs and comp when comparing apples to oranges. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: So tradesmen or others should just say "Fuck it, I'm okay working for less here, while other companies are paying more"? ![]() I'm not picking on you, cause I know payroll obligations suck. Unless there's an incentive to work for less than the going (albeit, inflated) rate for the well-being of your company, I don't see what options they or you have. I just hope they're taking total compensation into account instead of just hourly wages. I could give everyone a 10% raise at the snap of my fingers for example, if we weren't already giving that money to the employees in the ESOP. Repurchase obligations are a real cost. But does a $2.50/hr raise to go to another company with insurance that costs more and covers less, no retirement contribution and less PTO accumulation sound like an attractive proposition? Sometimes I wish benefits weren't a thing. It clouds costs and comp when comparing apples to oranges. I wish I could get paid more for opting out of the company health plan. One of the big problems I see from my lowly perspective is that employers don't value workers based on their individual worth. Some employees are bottom of the barrel and should be let go. Most are average and do just enough that it's not worth firing them and having to train a replacement. Occasionally, a super star will show up. These are the guys that it would take hiring 2-3 average employees to replace their productivity. Unfortunately, in my experience, all 3 groups get paid pretty much the same. At a previous employer, I consistently had the highest annual reviews in the department, and probably the company. I worked twice as hard as most of my coworkers, gobbled up every hour of over time they would give me, and covered down on areas way outside my job description whenever the company was in a crunch. For that, my annual raises would usually be about 0.2% higher than my peers. It's not worth it. If my employer doesn't value my hard work more than the guy that spends half the day on his phone and shows up late all the time, then I'm going to walk. Odds are I can start at a new company making at least what I was making at the old one, with similar or better bennies. The only thing I'm really out is time in service towards more PTO. Big deal. |
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How much time do we have before $100k becomes lower middle-class?
We’re in for a strange ride. |
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Quoted: I wish I could get paid more for opting out of the company health plan. One of the big problems I see from my lowly perspective is that employers don't value workers based on their individual worth. Some employees are bottom of the barrel and should be let go. Most are average and do just enough that it's not worth firing them and having to train a replacement. Occasionally, a super star will show up. These are the guys that it would take hiring 2-3 average employees to replace their productivity. Unfortunately, in my experience, all 3 groups get paid pretty much the same. At a previous employer, I consistently had the highest annual reviews in the department, and probably the company. I worked twice as hard as most of my coworkers, gobbled up every hour of over time they would give me, and covered down on areas way outside my job description whenever the company was in a crunch. For that, my annual raises would usually be about 0.2% higher than my peers. It's not worth it. If my employer doesn't value my hard work more than the guy that spends half the day on his phone and shows up late all the time, then I'm going to walk. Odds are I can start at a new company making at least what I was making at the old one, with similar or better bennies. The only thing I'm really out is time in service towards more PTO. Big deal. View Quote While I understand it's not always in the company's best interest to terminate under performing employees, I never will understand why they'd get any merit increase that others deserve more. I also want to start paying employees who do not take our health insurance. It'll just need to be done in a way, like a shift premium, that would be rescinded if they opted in down the road. |
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I am going to ask for a raise tomorrow. They will refuse me and find a reason to get rid of me. Hopefully in such a way that I can suck on the unemployment tit.
No reason to do a job that requires 6+ years of education when it only pays a few $/hr more than Dominos. |
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Quoted: The .gov has been cooking the inflation numbers for years. This means "cost of living increases" haven't been keeping up for some years now. ![]() View Quote I know for my job, back when the recession hit, it came down to our job saying either a ton of people are going to get layer off or we all take pay/benefit cuts. Of course no one wanted to lose their job so we took the cuts, with the promise from them that they would "make up for it" when things got better. Ended up being around 6% base pay, cuts to dental/health/vision as well as they went from matching 401k to 0.1% match. Around 2016 or 2017 they decided its been long enough and to "pay us back." What did we get... a 3% raise over 3 years (aka a net loss of 3%) the benefits went up a hair, and a $500 bonus in our check. ![]() ![]() |
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Quoted: No, I don't begrudge anyone leaving for greener pastures. The truth is that sometimes there just isn't money available or positions for advancement. I just hope they're taking total compensation into account instead of just hourly wages. I could give everyone a 10% raise at the snap of my fingers for example, if we weren't already giving that money to the employees in the ESOP. Repurchase obligations are a real cost. But does a $2.50/hr raise to go to another company with insurance that costs more and covers less, no retirement contribution and less PTO accumulation sound like an attractive proposition? Sometimes I wish benefits weren't a thing. It clouds costs and comp when comparing apples to oranges. View Quote I can actually give you some insite from the ground level on this because we do an ESOP too. It's all well and nice to factor that into the pay/benefits but the reality on the ground is much different. Esop's in theory are a really nice way to get both stockholder and employee's values aligned sure, but the reality is that I'm sure your company is like mine and those benefits only vest after a certain amount of time. For me it's a year. And while I would love to say that in 20 years or whatever when I "retire" I get some mythical fat check, that's not only not helping me right now but it's also not helping me that much down the road. Its basically giving the company a loan via reduced wages to cover this benefit, and it assumes a lot. First that the company will be able to rebuy those obligations when I leave in 20, and secondly that you can manage my money better then I can. For the extra 2.50 an hour I could be adding to my 401k, investing it or whatever. And its almost impossible to view it as any real benefit if the company refuses to pay a wage that's sustainable, because there won't be a buy back that's worth a fuck after a year or two. So packaging it as some sort of sweet benefit ignores the reality of an HR department that has decided that it's somehow more cost effective to lose a good employee every 6-8 months to a better paying job elsewhere, and hire new people in at those same low wages that will just leave once they have gained a better offer. Which for a company like mine that has that cycle, it just means that they can advertise that it's some great incentive knowing damn well that 50% of new hires won't ever see a penny of that awesome "benefit". And nearly every company 401k matches now to a %, and provides some sort of health insurance coverage. You want to retain people it really comes down to pay, good PTO schedules with flexibility, a 401k matching and that's really all most people want. You'll certainly keep them if you look at raises based on ability and performance, and offer even a small Christmas bonus and maybe a paid day off on their birthday or even just the day off. This mainly applies to blue collar clock punchers, I know most of GD millionaires would bawk and not having the company retreat to Bavaria paid for. And you can take the money you save from hosting Company wide cookout's, and renting out the golf course for a company tournament to pay a small Christmas bonus. I know that I go there to work, and while I enjoy seeing my co-workers I don't care to do hacky sack races and eat overdone burgers cooked by some random guy from maintenance. And 90% of the rest of hourly workers agree. When shift ends we just want to go home to enjoy the 12 hours before were have to be back here. Hell the "rented golf course" was the biggest joke ever. They schedule it for a Saturday we work, and for 30 mins before we get off was t off. Guess who took advantage of that? You guessed it, the president and upper management and all the office peons that live for 9 holes. But thats also considered an "employee incentive" somehow. These small changes will make a world of difference in retention. Just my 0.02 tho |
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Quoted: I can actually give you some insite from the ground level on this because we do an ESOP too. It's all well and nice to factor that into the pay/benefits but the reality on the ground is much different. Esop's in theory are a really nice way to get both stockholder and employee's values aligned sure, but the reality is that I'm sure your company is like mine and those benefits only vest after a certain amount of time. For me it's a year. And while I would love to say that in 20 years or whatever when I "retire" I get some mythical fat check, that's not only not helping me right now but it's also not helping me that much down the road. Its basically giving the company a loan via reduced wages to cover this benefit, and it assumes a lot. First that the company will be able to rebuy those obligations when I leave in 20, and secondly that you can manage my money better then I can. For the extra 2.50 an hour I could be adding to my 401k, investing it or whatever. And its almost impossible to view it as any real benefit if the company refuses to pay a wage that's sustainable, because there won't be a buy back that's worth a fuck after a year or two. So packaging it as some sort of sweet benefit ignores the reality of an HR department that has decided that it's somehow more cost effective to lose a good employee every 6-8 months to a better paying job elsewhere, and hire new people in at those same low wages that will just leave once they have gained a better offer. Which for a company like mine that has that cycle, it just means that they can advertise that it's some great incentive knowing damn well that 50% of new hires won't ever see a penny of that awesome "benefit". And nearly every company 401k matches now to a %, and provides some sort of health insurance coverage. You want to retain people it really comes down to pay, good PTO schedules with flexibility, a 401k matching and that's really all most people want. You'll certainly keep them if you look at raises based on ability and performance, and offer even a small Christmas bonus and maybe a paid day off on their birthday or even just the day off. This mainly applies to blue collar clock punchers, I know most of GD millionaires would bawk and not having the company retreat to Bavaria paid for. And you can take the money you save from hosting Company wide cookout's, and renting out the golf course for a company tournament to pay a small Christmas bonus. I know that I go there to work, and while I enjoy seeing my co-workers I don't care to do hacky sack races and eat overdone burgers cooked by some random guy from maintenance. And 90% of the rest of hourly workers agree. When shift ends we just want to go home to enjoy the 12 hours before were have to be back here. Hell the "rented golf course" was the biggest joke ever. They schedule it for a Saturday we work, and for 30 mins before we get off was t off. Guess who took advantage of that? You guessed it, the president and upper management and all the office peons that live for 9 holes. But thats also considered an "employee incentive" somehow. These small changes will make a world of difference in retention. Just my 0.02 tho View Quote If you'd like some help understanding ESOP mechanics to have a better grasp on everything your post makes painfully clear you don't, I would be happy to help you to the best of my ability. Either your company has done a poor job educating you or you didn't want to learn, both are unfortunately common. If you just would like to be bitter about your circumstances and whether they're fair or ideal, I know from experience that's something you'll have to get passed on your own and genuinely wish you the best of luck. |
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Quoted: https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl0MYDGA3Du1hBR4xG%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1 Seriously, the non union guys I work with all are making a great living. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I would need to know what you are calling a "trade" cause my hourly guys ... that are carpenters, pipe fitters, operators, etc... easily make more than me some years (I am a salary PM) and it doesn't bother me one bit when they do make more than me !! https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2Fl0MYDGA3Du1hBR4xG%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1 Seriously, the non union guys I work with all are making a great living. My boss had a meeting Friday telling us all he hasn’t gotten a paycheck for a month and a half. So he’s furloughing people. So he can have their paychecks, I guess. |
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Quoted: See thats not actually the issue. I like the job, the people hell even the facility. But I also look around and see the guys I work with who are fantastic workers and welders, making the same as the dude who just started and "knew the right people" and anyone in their right mind would question the future. Just how long should I wait to get paid what I'm worth? 1 year? 5? 10? I know that if a guy whose worked here for 3 years is making 17, what can I realistically expect? And is it worth it to me to never have a weekend off all while being underpaid? The longer this goes on, the more inflation goes up the less I make. Call it hubris if you want. But at 30 I'm done being a renter and driving 20 year old cars. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I have a lot of empathy for those with jobs wrecked by Inflation. However, your lack of perspective is eroding your motivation so badly, it’s going to destroy any chance of success. You literally just started a new career. Every job has dues which must be paid. You don’t just magically qualify for a new car and a “middle-class life”. You’re going to have to job hop a few times, and maybe move to a different region. It’s not a new phenomenon. People of every generation had to earn it over Decades of hard work. It’s never been easy for the working class, but it’s weird how people have lost perspective and lost hope. See thats not actually the issue. I like the job, the people hell even the facility. But I also look around and see the guys I work with who are fantastic workers and welders, making the same as the dude who just started and "knew the right people" and anyone in their right mind would question the future. Just how long should I wait to get paid what I'm worth? 1 year? 5? 10? I know that if a guy whose worked here for 3 years is making 17, what can I realistically expect? And is it worth it to me to never have a weekend off all while being underpaid? The longer this goes on, the more inflation goes up the less I make. Call it hubris if you want. But at 30 I'm done being a renter and driving 20 year old cars. You will have to change jobs, perhaps several times. Or, start your own business. Or, maybe a nice Union job or Government contract doing specialty welding. You can use your dissatisfaction to power your career, but you won’t get there without a ton of sacrifice. |
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Quoted: I’m worried the salary compression turns into more than that, as career paths get roadblocked as well. I’ve been pigeonholed before and now to fly this time much earlier. View Quote I've been in the same job basically now for more than 20 years and have lost income opportunities by staying. I should have moved on before, but once you get locked into a pension and fixed your departments problems, it just easier to hang on. I do a lot of consulting now and could do more with time. I have skills that are not easily replaced in this area and am well-known by the people that need them. I can *easily* make up salary/pension difference and cover inflation while working a lot few hours. I could hanging on for many years in the same position, but I doubt the compensation would grow much - likely not even pacing inflation. |
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Quoted: If you'd like some help understanding ESOP mechanics to have a better grasp on everything your post makes painfully clear you don't, I would be happy to help you to the best of my ability. Either your company has done a poor job educating you or you didn't want to learn, both are unfortunately common. If you just would like to be bitter about your circumstances and whether they're fair or ideal, I know from experience that's something you'll have to get passed on your own and genuinely wish you the best of luck. View Quote They told us nothing about it, and we weren't allowed to go to the annual meeting since it wasn't active for a year. I'll admit I know little about the way it works |
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Quoted: Local PD is down 25% and hiring fewer than they lose every month. Already one of the lower-paid agencies in the Midlands, the state is getting an across-the-board 15% raise and has a LOT of open positions. View Quote The city I work for has paid academy for just under $16/hr, and starts you at $18/hr after you’re done. Even if I still felt the call to serve, I think I’ll keep my $24/hr turning wrenches at the landfill. There’s no way I’d be a cop on the I44 corridor for $18/hr, even in this smallish city. |
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Quoted: I am starting to see the first wave of employees asking for money, promotions and coming to the table with outside job offers to get higher pay. View Quote It's common in my industry (cybersecurity), but ironically, given our clearance requirements, unless the employee is more PITA than performance, they are really restricted by the DoD contract guidelines. That equates to less salary increases and more along the lines of bonuses. Personally, I'm pushing close to the next tax bracket and really don't want a significant tax hit, so I'm just asking for other benefits vice money. Those without the bargaining power are going to feel some pain. However, as I tell the younger analysts, chasing salary doesn't always mean it's greener on the other side. We had two analysts previously cut (.gov directed), that are now inquiring about coming back on board as we look at expanding our operations. A lot of volatility in several markets will make this a bumpy ride. ROCK6 |
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I am sooo thankful I recently changed jobs which yielded a 63% increase in pay. This year I will net more than I grossed last year. I still can't believe it.
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