[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Intresting study (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 10/15/2002 6:29:53 AM EDT
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THE TANSER STUDY By Robert Thompson We have been told that the reason that Blacks do not perform as well as Whites and Asians in school is due to "White racism" or a poor family environment, or poverty, or some other external, environmental reason. Well, we can never solve the racial problems in our schools or our society if we do not understand them, and this environmental theory of intelligence is a complete misunderstanding. It has been conclusively demonstrated that racial differences in academic performance are due mainly to heredity, not environment. One of the more interesting proofs of this is a Canadian study called the Tanser Study. Before the Civil War in the United States there was a system by which escaped slaves were smuggled to the North. The system was called the underground railroad. I am sure you have heard of it. Now some of the people who operated the underground railroad felt it best and safest to get the freed Blacks out of the United States entirely, and so sent them up into Canada. Many of these Blacks settled around a town called Chatham, in Kent County, Ontario. In 1939, Dr. H. A. Tanser, the superintendent of schools for Chatham, decided to do, as his doctoral thesis, a comparison of the intellectual performance of the Black students of Kent County with the performance of the Black students of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. The study became a classic. Would you believe, Dr. Tanser found that the Blacks of Kent County were as far behind the Whites of Kent County as the Blacks of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were behind the Whites of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. After one hundred years there was no improvement in spite of integration. The question has to be asked, if the intellectual inferiority of the Black is demonstrably not a product of environment, and you claim it is not genetic, then what does cause that inferiority? Inferiority it is, beyond any question, and the educational establishment knows that, beyond any question, though the educational establishment today will never tell you about the Tanser study. Look it up. Its official title is Kent County Negroes, 1939, it was published in Chatham, Ontario, Canada and the author is H. A. Tanser, T-A-N-S-E-R. Since the Tanser study, there have been numerous other studies. May I suggest the fine book, Black Intelligence in White Society, available for $7.50 postpaid through National Vanguard Books, as a starting place for reviewing the literature on this subject. The results have never differed. The question is, why are we not told these facts in our newspapers, magazines, and television programs? These media constantly promote the idea of racial equality, those this equality can nowhere be found in fact. If they are so sure they are right, why do they suppress public information on the Tanser study and other studies which show that racial difference in intelligence are inherited and largely immutable. The failure to discuss these studies along with any evidence to the contrary, whenever the race issue or "civil rights" are discussed, constitutes a gross violation of intellectual honesty and a lie by omission on the part of the media and our schools. The only weapons the integrationists have in their intellectual arsenal are bookburning, brainwashing and intimidation, that is all they have, they have nothing else, and they know it. If they have anything else, where is it? |
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I may be stepping into hot water now, but I have a greater commitment to truth than political correctness. The study mentioned isn't the only one that draws similar conclusions. There have been others. Search on the 'net for Dr. William Shockley, the inventor of the transistor. Is it a crime to acknowledge a fact? In this case, the fact is that all the evidence points to a definite difference in intellectual capability of different races. I don't think anyone here would be really offended if I stated that there is evidence to support the often held notion that Japanese people are smarter and more intelligent than Caucasians. (I'm not stating that...I haven't read any study or summary that actually makes this claim...but I could well believe it.) So if you're not offended at the idea that the Japanese may average a little higher on the intelligence scale than the average Caucasian, why would you be offended at the idea that studies conducted with sound methodology might also identify a difference in average intelligence between any two other races, even, dare I say it, Caucasian and Negro? I've never been offended by a pure fact in my entire life and I've never felt there was any need to censor one, either. The truth is the only thing I really respect. No, I'm NOT racist. Definitely not. I've known and worked with entirely too many bright and good black people to have any reason to be racist. But even those bright and good blacks who I am proud to call my friends and coworkers will be among the very first people to agree with the facts of these studies even though they don't like the social implications of them. (Neither do I.) I agree it's an odd topic and I question the motives of the person who started it, (Hunter88) but at the same time I had to jump to the defense of the topic as a matter of intellectual principle. The truth is always worth saying and it's always worth guarding, even if it's unpleasant. That's what I thought being an American was most about. CJ |
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I won't disagree with the fact that whites have consistently outperformed blacks in intelligence testing. I also won't disagree that Asians have consistently outperformed whites in intelligence testing. The part of your theory that is pure BS is the genetic vs. environment theory. That is much harder to prove and I doubt it it true. Assuming you are correct for a moment, what does intelligence have to do with equality? You seem to be implying that a black ditch digger does not deserve the same rights as a Asian nuclear physicist? |
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No two races are equal in all things, just as no two individuals are equal in their personal accomplishments and abilities. But that is where it ends. In the Eyes of the Lord, we are all His children, and He does not favor one of His children over any others. For any reason. We are not dairy cattle, to be bred for a high butterfat content in our milk, nor beef cattle to be bred for the consistency of marbling of fat in our musculature. We are children of the King, so all of us are of royalty. Not in this World, but in the World to come. Will this be a fit topic for discussion at the dinner table at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb? I doubt it. Eric The(Serious)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: The question has to be asked, if the intellectual inferiority of the Black is demonstrably not a product of environment, and you claim it is not genetic, then what does cause that inferiority? Inferiority it is, beyond any question, and the educational establishment knows that, beyond any question,........ Intellectual inferiority??? HA! If this is so true hunter, will you please explain to me why whites sit in this big humungous room and pay blacks multi-millions of dollars to watch them bounce and throw a ball around?? Who's smart??? Bwaaahaaaahaaahaaa... |
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Quoted: Quoted: "You know we're all His children, His next of kin, That's the way it began. No matter where you're goin Or where you've been You're part of the family of man." I didn't just sound like a liberal, did I? Nope. You sounded like a human. Thanks, subsailor. |
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A little quote from your Nazi web site hunter [url]http://www.natvan.com/what-is-na/na2.html#economic[/url] [b]In contrast to the Marxist system, we recognize the need to permit people to compete, to reap the fruits of their labor, and to exercise leadership according to their demonstrated ability. They will work harder and more efficiently and will order themselves in a hierarchy of ability. The result will be a stronger, better led, and more prosperous society. There will of course, be those individuals who will not work or whose natural abilities are such that they cannot compete effectively. Rather than following the Marxist path of robbing the successful in order to reward the unsuccessful, [red]we must take measures to ensure that society's lowest elements do not multiply and become more numerous in later generations......[/red] [/b] Welp, here I go..... Let me tell you something you Nazi [s]cocksucker[/s] {accurate expletives deleted), , YOU are my enemy, just as are all who would try to enslave me and my fellow Americans. Between your "order", and the "order" that's currently being imposed on us I see no difference, except you say "here I am", while the others hide. But you are no different..... We Americans will have our day again, BANK ON IT!! |
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Quoted: IBTL Let's spank [s]our little[/s] "I HAVE to be superior to SOMEONE!" whiny-butt supremacist(s) (as a group) some more! [size=1](Edited to make the suggestion general, rather than specific.)[/size=1] |
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Quoted: Chimborazo, That's funny as hell!!! How about using that picture and the first four lines of text and making t-shirts? I thought about that, but I'm not sure the image will show up very well because it's a bit dark. I might try anyway though. Also, I didn't come up with that one, although I'm sure it's pretty much public domain. |
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Quoted: THE TANSER STUDY By Robert Thompson We have been told that the reason that Blacks do not perform as well as Whites and Asians in school is due to "White racism" or a poor family environment, or poverty, or some other external, environmental reason. Well, we can never solve the racial problems in our schools or our society if we do not understand them, and this environmental theory of intelligence is a complete misunderstanding. It has been conclusively demonstrated that racial differences in academic performance are due mainly to heredity, not environment. One of the more interesting proofs of this is a Canadian study called the Tanser Study. Before the Civil War in the United States there was a system by which escaped slaves were smuggled to the North. The system was called the underground railroad. I am sure you have heard of it. Now some of the people who operated the underground railroad felt it best and safest to get the freed Blacks out of the United States entirely, and so sent them up into Canada. Many of these Blacks settled around a town called Chatham, in Kent County, Ontario. In 1939, Dr. H. A. Tanser, the superintendent of schools for Chatham, decided to do, as his doctoral thesis, a comparison of the intellectual performance of the Black students of Kent County with the performance of the Black students of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. The study became a classic. Would you believe, Dr. Tanser found that the Blacks of Kent County were as far behind the Whites of Kent County as the Blacks of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana were behind the Whites of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. After one hundred years there was no improvement in spite of integration. The question has to be asked, if the intellectual inferiority of the Black is demonstrably not a product of environment, and you claim it is not genetic, then what does cause that inferiority? Inferiority it is, beyond any question, and the educational establishment knows that, beyond any question, though the educational establishment today will never tell you about the Tanser study. Look it up. Its official title is Kent County Negroes, 1939, it was published in Chatham, Ontario, Canada and the author is H. A. Tanser, T-A-N-S-E-R. Since the Tanser study, there have been numerous other studies. May I suggest the fine book, Black Intelligence in White Society, available for $7.50 postpaid through National Vanguard Books, as a starting place for reviewing the literature on this subject. The results have never differed. The question is, why are we not told these facts in our newspapers, magazines, and television programs? These media constantly promote the idea of racial equality, those this equality can nowhere be found in fact. If they are so sure they are right, why do they suppress public information on the Tanser study and other studies which show that racial difference in intelligence are inherited and largely immutable. The failure to discuss these studies along with any evidence to the contrary, whenever the race issue or "civil rights" are discussed, constitutes a gross violation of intellectual honesty and a lie by omission on the part of the media and our schools. The only weapons the integrationists have in their intellectual arsenal are bookburning, brainwashing and intimidation, that is all they have, they have nothing else, and they know it. If they have anything else, where is it? Hunter, do you know the first thing about psychometrics? About the failing points of the Stanford Binet as a psychometric tool? The Tanser study is schlock. Why don't you go embrace something that makes more sense, like Scientology? Edited to avoid the big lock. Biting my tounge... |
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Since this has been unlocked, I'll respond here - the only thing interesting about this is Hunter88's own ignorance about even the things that he thinks support his position. Children shouldn't play with matches, and unintelligent people should not try to talk about things they do not understand. [;)] Hunter88 cited a primitive 1939 study that was a "classic" (according to him) but rarely cited because it "proves" that blacks are intellectually inferior. I looked up the study, and it is not much of a "classic" in that it does not apprear to be cited much - if at all (my link to the social sciences citation index) is down right now - but I found tha study abstract on the PsychINFO database which goes back to the 1800s. The problem is that while the author does show that the scores of "negroes" on IQ tests in 3rd & 4th grade falls below that of "white" kids, the study does not control for a number of causally antecedent factors. Without such controls, the findings are completely confounded, and do not mean anything. The study thus seriously lacks statistical conclusion validity (or internal validity), and because it is a tiny study of a very specific and ideosynchratic group, it also lacks external validity, or generalizability. In English - no real conclusions whatsoever can be drawn from the study, because it was a piss-poorly designed and imlemented study. Two things are particularly interesting - on the Pitner-Patterson Performance Test (another IQ test), the median score for "negroes" was 94 and for "whites" was 108. The median score for "chinese" was 94. Thus, according to this flawed study, Chinese people are really stupid and could never be as smart as "white" people. I wonder how that would fit with the reality that PhD programms across the U.S. are swamped and dominated by chinese students, because they score much higher on entrance exams and standardized tests (thins that correlate very highly with IQ). Just another hilarious example of how pathetically bad this study was, and an illustration of how these "findings" are meaningless, when a study is not conducted properly. The other really interesting thing, that anyone who actually bothered to investigate this author (Tanser), would have found, is that he published a paper in 1941, which was a study of mixed-blood "negroes", in which he was investigating whether the amount of "white blood" (i.e. genetics) could be linked to intelligence. Using a variety of IQ tests, he could not find any correlation or connection to suggest any relationship, thus rejecting the notion that black/white genetics has anything to do with performance on intelligence tests. I just thought I would clarify this, since I strongly believe in Socrates' quote - [b]"the only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance"[/b] |
| DK-Prof sums things up nicely. One small matter of great import in day to day life--if any group [i]averages[/i] lower intelligence, this information is totally meaningless, as it tells you exactly [b]nothing[/b] about the individual standing in front of you. It may be Dr. Walter Williams or Thomas Sowell, or it may be the village idiot. Please keep the comments civil, with no name calling. I would have locked this if not for the involvement of others. |
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Please stop badgering Hunter. Please read this study relating to people like him. www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html The 2000 ig nobel winner titled Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments Abstract People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities. |
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Fortunately or unfortunately, intellect is not the driving force on this planet. Emotions are the driving force behind intellect. Emotion and reason will balance each other out. I doubt any truly reliable study has plotted the outcome for both races under a single curve. I would speculate that the majority of both races overlap each other. I know from personal experience that I can communicate higher thinking with people of ANY other race, as well as I can with whites, with racial arrogance being the most common and debilitating obstacle, even in my own case. Get out and see the world, it isn't like you might think it is. Go swim in the Ganges River or something. Edited for speeling. |
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What a shame! I get a small handful of emails with "Interesting Study" or something similar - and no, not "New Scent Attracts a Mate FAST"- each day (I wonder when we'll begin to make real scientific strides in identifying and synthesizing human pheromones); and instead, this rubbish. Was quite excited to read the results of some groundbreaking work. Am disappointed. A parody I trust? |
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It is amazing the amount of hostility that is encountered, when i post an intresting subject, that provides both food for thought, and a diffrent point of view. To those that can debate with good manners, my hat goes off to you for being civil, even if we will be at opposite sides of the battle field some day. But to those lacking in manners and the ability to defend your beliefs without resorting to name calling and that apparently feel threatened by another view of the world and of life as we know it, you suffer from an apparent {my wife wears the pants in the house} syndrome. You must get online to insult people rather than face the real world, my topics may be heated but they are far from insulting. Also i may forget to answer all the questions posted towards me, this is not on purpose, it is just forgetfullness. But here is some more food for thought Remember that Equality is the Ideal of man,and that Inequality is the law of Nature, and when man decides to live against the Law of Nature, he will cease to exist. That especially applies to ones own race. |
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Quoted: But here is some more food for thought Remember that Equality is the Ideal of man,and that Inequality is the law of Nature, and when man decides to live against the Law of Nature, he will cease to exist. That especially applies to ones own race. "All men are created equal." Too true, we're helpless at birth and dependent on others for our survival. Once we can get by on our own, we are no longer physically or intellectually equal, merely (ideally) equal under the law. The cream rises to the top, so to speak. But if [s]you[/s] someone think(s) [s]you[/s] he can judge the value of a human being by that person's [i]race[/i] (mere [i]physical[/i] attributes) [s]you're[/s] he's obviously mentally incompetent, one of the lower percentiles of the species, and by [s]your own[/s] racist logic should perhaps be weeded out for the good of the human race. (How's that for editing, raf?) |
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Once again, I warn against giving in to the temptation to indulge in personal insults. If your argument is valid, you don't need 'em. If your argument is fallacious, they won't do you any good anyways. Now, this thread has been running all day, with a lot of effort on the part of folks to keep it alive and to avoid violating board code. Don't YOU be the one to screw it up. Yes, that DOES mean YOU! |
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Quoted: To those that can debate with good manners, my hat goes off to you for being civil, even if we will be at opposite sides of the battle field some day. Don't know if you consider me someone w. good manners. I do not care about manners, only knowledge and facts. Did you KNOW that Tanser's later 1941 paper concluded that there was no black/white genetic basis for intelligence differences? My apologies if I come across as abrupt - but I cannot stand it when people profess to be well-informed about something they are not. Since you quoted this Robert Thompson guy, most of my anger is directed at him. But here is some more food for thought Remember that Equality is the Ideal of man,and that Inequality is the law of Nature, and when man decides to live against the Law of Nature, he will cease to exist. That especially applies to ones own race. I do not consider that either interesting or insightful, but rather trite and stupid. [b]'...when man decides to live against the Law of Nature, he will cease to exist"[/b] is the logica flaw in that little quote. You can only look at that one of two ways. Either (1) Man has been living "against the Law of Nature" ever since the first clever primate picked up a tool started modifying his environment to suit his need, eliminating the process of natural selection and adaptation to environments, which is the natural process. Man has clearly been violating the "Law of Nature" more and more ever since. Do you think the "Law of Nature" inteneded earthbound creatures to build rockets and fly to the moon? If violating the "Law of Nature" is going to be our demise, then we clearly have violated more than just being nice to people who look different from us. Or, (2) the "Law of Nature" INCLUDES man's intellect and everything that comes with it. One of the results of man's intellect is morality and ethical reasoning - which does not necessarily have to be based in objective reality, but is based on abstract concepts like justice, good and evil. If the "Law of Nature" includes our advanced intellect and large brains, then there is no problem with us creting for ourselves standards that we would like to live by - it's called civilization. So, I don't see your "Law of Nature" argument holding water here, since it is self-contradictory. Just my $.02 |
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Creativity and inventing things to improve our chances of survival, is something nature gave us the ability to achieve, these things are good and no are not my definition of violating natures LAW. But you said it when all our doings and thinking are used to create civilization, i would consider that which causes the hard earned civilization to become weak or extinct, especially in violation of natures law and natural selection. Especially if those violations are avoidable. For example putting people in power based on politiclly oriented quotas rather than actuall civilization sustaining abilities, such as we have in this country today.Most Americans seem to think that a good liar and actor on TV will make a fine leader in DC, and he will if he follows the controlled Media's demands, well atleast the media will say he was a good leader despite the fact that he was just their puppet. Also allowing the science and philosophical institutions of the land to be ran on feel good theories of equality rather than on hard facts, something that is all to common place these days. And the biggest violation of all is to allow one's Race to become extinct by not preserving it's blood line from outside races. If a race does not take it's uniqueness seriously it will become so watered down by other blood that in the course of 10 generations or less it can essentially become extinct. So the most important LAW of Nature of all this planet is to preserve your race and to encourage others to do the same, nowhere in history has the mixing of races resulted in a solid foundation for maintaining ANY civilization, NOWHERE. All the great civilizations of the past, atleast those of my race, have perished shortly after accepting the equality of other races within their borders, by not punishing the inner breeding with other races, and by forgetting that it was the greatness of their kind that allowed them to build what they had to begin with. Yes it is with sadness that i admitt we have always allowed ourselves to become forgetful of the lessons of time, but now is our chance to break the cycle of ROT and DECAY,that race mixing and equality ALWAYS brings with it. |
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Quoted: All the great civilizations of the past, atleast those of my race, have perished shortly after accepting the equality of other races within their borders, by not punishing the inner breeding with other races, and by forgetting that it was the greatness of their kind that allowed them to build what they had to begin with. Yes it is with sadness that i admitt we have always allowed ourselves to become forgetful of the lessons of time, but now is our chance to break the cycle of ROT and DECAY,that race mixing and equality ALWAYS brings with it. You had your shot with thr third reich, and blew it. Talk about rot and decay! You could have kept your ideology within the borders of Germany, but it was the Nazis who wouldn't let other sovereign nations alone. See, your ideology ALWAYS leads to the cattle cars at the train station. One thinks they are "better" than others, the next step is to look at them as animals. Soon they are "the enemy". You think you know best for the whole white race, and would force others to do your will. You cannot be content with living your own life, you would force your way of life on others. Bring it on 88.... NOW are you going to answer my questions?? Are you a humanist? Are you a socialist? |
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Posted by Hunter88: And the biggest violation of all is to allow one's Race to become extinct by not preserving it's blood line from outside races. If a race does not take it's uniqueness seriously it will become so watered down by other blood that in the course of 10 generations or less it can essentially become extinct. Perhaps, some might argue, those wars served a "cleansing" purpose in winnowing out the defectives in each race. However, the most successful nation in the history of the world has been America, where people from every ethnicity came to be Americans and do what they could not do in their repressive home countries. It would seem, then, that our [i]diversity[/i] was our strength. And our diverse population outproduced and outfought the best of the rest of the world, including those who espoused (and practiced) "racial purity." The European royal families carried the "racial purity" bit to the extremes. And we know what inbreeding did to [i]them[/i]. (Have you [i]seen[/i] Charles's ears?[:D]) Mongrels tend to be hardier than purebreds, and quite often brighter. |
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Quoted: So the most important LAW of Nature of all this planet is to preserve your race and to encourage others to do the same, nowhere in history has the mixing of races resulted in a solid foundation for maintaining ANY civilization, NOWHERE. I'm not sure there are any examples of ANY civilization, ANYWHERE surviving longer than others based on NOT MIXING races. What exactly do you define as a "solid foundation for maintaining a civilization"? It's really hard to talk about what works and what doesn't work unless we can be clear about what the outcome is we're talking about. All the great civilizations of the past, atleast those of my race, have perished shortly after accepting the equality of other races within their borders, by not punishing the inner breeding with other races, and by forgetting that it was the greatness of their kind that allowed them to build what they had to begin with. Yes it is with sadness that i admitt we have always allowed ourselves to become forgetful of the lessons of time, but now is our chance to break the cycle of ROT and DECAY,that race mixing and equality ALWAYS brings with it. Here's the thing I'm REALLY curious about. You talk about your race. What is your race? Since you are very concerned about these things, do you know with great accuracy? I, for instance, am scandinavian. All of my ancestors are from Denmark and southern Sweden. Because of the accuracy of church records, my bloodline can be accurately tracked about 800 years back (give or take). Note that this is a [b]Nordic[/b] bloodline. You know - the heritage that the little ridiculous Austrian tried to convince the Germans they belonged to. LMAO - the Germans are NOT Nordic, and are generally short and unattractive people compared to the tall, blond, blue-eyed Nordic people. But you know what, even though I belong to the "Aryan" group, it has NOTHING to do with me personally. What long-lasting culture and civilization exactly, have the blond, tall and blue-eyed people created?? |
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I've always thought that pride in one's race is a strange concept since it was thrust upon one, rather than achieved through skill or hard work. It has been my impression that people who take undue pride in their race usually have achieved little and therefore must latch onto feeling superior through their race. Race also seems foolish reason to choose a mate. I have known many women who are not of my race that are intelligent, hard working, loyal, beautiful and good mothers. To discard a mate because a foolish reason would seem to be the act of a creature that is less fit for survival and less likely to successfully breed, thrive and have successful offspring. I also have not met a follower of nazism that has a good job, much in the way of friends or an attractive mate, therefore interest in Nazism would seem to be a trait of weakness that runs counter to survival and thriving. |
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I won’t post anything on this topic. My opinion of those who hold these vile, disgusting, and ridiculous views would be in violation of the board conduct code. DK-Prof – you have my gratitude for your levelheaded rebuttal. Even though most of my ancestors would have considered your ancestors “southerners”. [>]:)] "This sad little lizard told me that he was a brontosaurus on his mother's side. I did not laugh; people who boast of ancestry often have little else to sustain them." Robert A. Heinlein |