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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:31:25 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryEh, the guys a pro, and the reason is he's never seen one fail. That's like saying my friends and I have never needed a fire alarm or extinguisher in the house, so why bother? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:32:08 AM EST
[#2]
I like shooting with irons. Its fun and it reinforces my ability as a shooter. I like my RDS and mag optics too.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:44:12 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who cares. Not every rifle in your safe needs to be ready for war at all times. Very true however if your range or where ever you shoot is a hour or more drive away, having backups is nice. Back about nine years ago another Arfcommer I'm friends with wanted to show off his brand new EO tech. I live about an hour and twenty minutes away he lived about 45 min. We get to the range, set up and his EO tech is dead as disco. A couple years later I had a red dot with a wandering zero. I have irons ready now at all times because I'm not spending two hours on the road on wasted range trips. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:48:04 AM EST
[#4]
My Aimpoint rifles have fixed irons on a 1/3 cowitness. Not as a hedge against optic failure so match as operator error in case the dot is not at the proper setting when the rifle is needed. If I need my rifle at work then I need it RFN and usually don't have time to check and adjust the dot. I set it properly before my shift, but sometimes the lighting conditions change or the rheostat gets bumped (I've had both happen). The fixed irons don't distract me at all, so it doesn't cost me anything to have them there.
If you're always able to check your dot before use then I wouldn't be as concerned about needed BUIS due to Aimpoint failure. They've proven extremely reliable. I'd be even less concerned about ACOGs or other proven scopes since there will always be some form of reticle regardless of lighting conditions or power settings. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:55:13 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No irons, then it's a no go at this station for me because I have no interest in any rifle that is useless to me. 
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Posted: 9/6/2016 7:55:46 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eh, the guys a pro, and the reason is he's never seen one fail. That's like saying my friends and I have never needed a fire alarm or extinguisher in the house, so why bother? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eh, the guys a pro, and the reason is he's never seen one fail. That's like saying my friends and I have never needed a fire alarm or extinguisher in the house, so why bother? A fire extinguisher is to attempt to hold out until a fire dept can come to the rescue. It doesn't really apply to BUIS. Don't the Marine Corps see more breakage of their BUIS than ACOGs? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:12:46 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's the way I see it, not just for backup, but for the option to co-witness. An Aimpoint is marketed as "parallax-free" but it isn't really. There is a maximum margin of error equal to the inside diameter of the tube. If you co-witness with irons, you can assure that you're aiming with the dot in the same position, and eliminate that parallax error, if that makes any sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Red dot rifles get back ups, scoped rifles do not That's the way I see it, not just for backup, but for the option to co-witness. An Aimpoint is marketed as "parallax-free" but it isn't really. There is a maximum margin of error equal to the inside diameter of the tube. If you co-witness with irons, you can assure that you're aiming with the dot in the same position, and eliminate that parallax error, if that makes any sense. Thus negating all the speed advantage of a red dot..... |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:14:27 AM EST
[#8]
It is fun every now and then to stop using the red dot and shoot some iron. Also if you move optics around you can quickly rezero off the irons.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:25:06 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Red dot rifles get back ups, scoped rifles do not This......... |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:27:04 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares. Not every rifle in your safe needs to be ready for war at all times. I actually prefer that they are. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:29:18 AM EST
[#11]
I have seen fully functional irons over a hundred years old, I somehow don't see optics no matter how well built (current tech) lasting as well.
Durability goes to irons. Of course there are some damn fine optics out there now too. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:38:34 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One of my ARs has an Aimpoint pro on it and the Magpul BUIS co-witness perfectly. So... You have an absolute co-witness height mount? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:39:40 AM EST
[#13]
I have BUIS on mine, but that's just because I got them as a gift several years ago. If I were to do it again today, I wouldn't fool with them. I'd rather spend that $100 on ammo.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of magnifier is that and mount? I've been thinking about adding one to my AR. To cheap to get rid of my Aimpoint PRO and get a 1x4 scope. Been looking at PA magnifiers or a vortex which I know I'd have to flip the mount around so that it flips right instead of left ETA well cheap isn't the right word.. I'd just hate to have it sitting on my closet and not using it after I spent the money on it. I did consider Burris MTAC though Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of magnifier is that and mount? I've been thinking about adding one to my AR. To cheap to get rid of my Aimpoint PRO and get a 1x4 scope. Been looking at PA magnifiers or a vortex which I know I'd have to flip the mount around so that it flips right instead of left ETA well cheap isn't the right word.. I'd just hate to have it sitting on my closet and not using it after I spent the money on it. I did consider Burris MTAC though Not to derail the thread, but I have a PA magnifier on a QD flip to side mount behind my T1. The magnifier and mount cost around $150 total, and they've been very well worth the cost. I'll just toss it in my range bag, and if I end up wanting to shoot farther out, then I can just pop it on and make easier hits. I've made hits somewhat easily out to about 200m with just the red dot, but adding the magnifier makes it super easy even at 300m. Since there aren't any electronics to worry about inside, it doesn't bother me having a cheaper PA versus a more expensive Aimpoint/Eotech. Also, if you end up not liking it, you aren't out the $500 for a name brand magnifier. 
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:44:00 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of magnifier is that and mount? I've been thinking about adding one to my AR. To cheap to get rid of my Aimpoint PRO and get a 1x4 scope. Been looking at PA magnifiers or a vortex which I know I'd have to flip the mount around so that it flips right instead of left ETA well cheap isn't the right word.. I'd just hate to have it sitting on my closet and not using it after I spent the money on it. I did consider Burris MTAC though Quote HistoryQuoted:
What type of magnifier is that and mount? I've been thinking about adding one to my AR. To cheap to get rid of my Aimpoint PRO and get a 1x4 scope. Been looking at PA magnifiers or a vortex which I know I'd have to flip the mount around so that it flips right instead of left ETA well cheap isn't the right word.. I'd just hate to have it sitting on my closet and not using it after I spent the money on it. I did consider Burris MTAC though You should look at the ADM twist mount, I believe PA sells.it as a package option with their 3x LER magnifier Pair it with technology ADM 68c cantilever pinpoint mount and you still have room for a rear BU sight One thing I dislike about the 3x magnifier/ Pro setup is it just feels heavy |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:49:24 AM EST
[#15]
Yes. I've owned several Aimpoints in the last decade, and not a single one has given me a problem. However, the rifles they live on all have KAC 300m or 200-600m and integral front sights.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:50:21 AM EST
[#16]
I've been to enough classes and have seen so many problems with different red dots on different students rifles that I understand why people have BUIS on their rifles. I don't care what Frank Proctor says, it is not a bad idea to have them on a rifle that is intended for defense.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:52:33 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I actually prefer that they are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who cares. Not every rifle in your safe needs to be ready for war at all times. I actually prefer that they are. I agree That's why I always keep my HiPoint Carbine locked, loaded, and ready to roll |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:52:57 AM EST
[#18]
Why would you not?
They're not really heavy and it's an outstanding backup solution should ANYTHING happen to your primary optic. What're you going to sight with? The rail? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:54:32 AM EST
[#19]
"Backup"
Is your life worth it? A.W.D. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:54:58 AM EST
[#20]
Meh, I did
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:57:34 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have BUIS on mine, but that's just because I got them as a gift several years ago. If I were to do it again today, I wouldn't fool with them. I'd rather spend that $100 on ammo. Not to derail the thread, but I have a PA magnifier on a QD flip to side mount behind my T1. The magnifier and mount cost around $150 total, and they've been very well worth the cost. I'll just toss it in my range bag, and if I end up wanting to shoot farther out, then I can just pop it on and make easier hits. I've made hits somewhat easily out to about 200m with just the red dot, but adding the magnifier makes it super easy even at 300m. Since there aren't any electronics to worry about inside, it doesn't bother me having a cheaper PA versus a more expensive Aimpoint/Eotech. Also, if you end up not liking it, you aren't out the $500 for a name brand magnifier. http://i.imgur.com/t8UZAL2l.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have BUIS on mine, but that's just because I got them as a gift several years ago. If I were to do it again today, I wouldn't fool with them. I'd rather spend that $100 on ammo. Quoted:
What type of magnifier is that and mount? I've been thinking about adding one to my AR. To cheap to get rid of my Aimpoint PRO and get a 1x4 scope. Been looking at PA magnifiers or a vortex which I know I'd have to flip the mount around so that it flips right instead of left ETA well cheap isn't the right word.. I'd just hate to have it sitting on my closet and not using it after I spent the money on it. I did consider Burris MTAC though Not to derail the thread, but I have a PA magnifier on a QD flip to side mount behind my T1. The magnifier and mount cost around $150 total, and they've been very well worth the cost. I'll just toss it in my range bag, and if I end up wanting to shoot farther out, then I can just pop it on and make easier hits. I've made hits somewhat easily out to about 200m with just the red dot, but adding the magnifier makes it super easy even at 300m. Since there aren't any electronics to worry about inside, it doesn't bother me having a cheaper PA versus a more expensive Aimpoint/Eotech. Also, if you end up not liking it, you aren't out the $500 for a name brand magnifier. http://i.imgur.com/t8UZAL2l.jpg I do the same thing sometimes I'd like to get my hands on one of the hendsolt po' boy setups to see how they stack up, especially weight wise |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:57:41 AM EST
[#22]
Gotta have irons in case EMP knocks out your red dot.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 8:59:00 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why would you not? They're not really heavy and it's an outstanding backup solution should ANYTHING happen to your primary optic. What're you going to sight with? The rail? Use the aimpoint tube as a big ass ghost ring. Seriously, how many Aimpoint m4's have you people seen fail? Again, I may be wrong but havent the Marine corps seen more irons fail than quality optics? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:02:26 AM EST
[#24]
I've got the polymer MBUS on mine. Weight is negligible so why not? I've got two spare batteries in the grip core, so that's about 15 years of battery lol. I doubt I'll ever use them other than the one time I zeroed but they're so cheap on the EE why not for the piece of mind?
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:04:56 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of my ARs have irons of some sort. In a SHTF situation batteries may be hard to come by. ACOG for the win. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:08:36 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ACOG for the win. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: All of my ARs have irons of some sort. In a SHTF situation batteries may be hard to come by. ACOG for the win. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:08:37 AM EST
[#27]
If you have the FSB, then it's begging for a rear sight.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:19:26 AM EST
[#28]
FSB, the answer is yes
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:27:03 AM EST
[#29]
My Aimpoint is currently dead, awaiting reply from Aimpoint .
I have KAC irons. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:29:27 AM EST
[#30]
Needed? No, not really.
I do have BUIS on both of my social rifles though.... better to have and not need and so forth. Plus I've ended up with quite a few sets of sights. I'll probably never buy another though. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:30:12 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My Aimpoint rifles have fixed irons on a 1/3 cowitness. Not as a hedge against optic failure so match as operator error in case the dot is not at the proper setting when the rifle is needed. If I need my rifle at work then I need it RFN and usually don't have time to check and adjust the dot. I set it properly before my shift, but sometimes the lighting conditions change or the rheostat gets bumped (I've had both happen). The fixed irons don't distract me at all, so it doesn't cost me anything to have them there. If you're always able to check your dot before use then I wouldn't be as concerned about needed BUIS due to Aimpoint failure. They've proven extremely reliable. I'd be even less concerned about ACOGs or other proven scopes since there will always be some form of reticle regardless of lighting conditions or power settings. If your red dot will accept a front flip cap, use one and keep it closed while at work. Using it as an occluded eye gunsight avoids any washout issues (whether from ambient lighting or a WML) and still gives you increased speed over BUIS. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:33:54 AM EST
[#32]
I would use a buis. It is fun to shoot just using the front post. I have also shoot my G19 without the front sight because it fell off at the beginning of my range session. You would be surprised how close a point and shoot will work for minute of barn.
Another option is to slap a tracer mag in and walk them to your target. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:35:48 AM EST
[#33]
I guess you can just keep a single set of backup irons in you go bag or on your vest, so no matter what rifle you end up with, you have a set handy in minutes.
None of my weapons have an optic that requies power, and I prefer irons for a combat rifle. Always used and trained with it... And to be honest, quick snap shots I don't need to aim at all, just instinctively point. Only target shooting or for precision do i use sights or glass. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:36:08 AM EST
[#34]
I don't even use sights.
If you can't point-shoot, then you don't need an AR. 
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:36:53 AM EST
[#35]
Something about the whole "back up" verbiage. You don't need it, until you need it. Considering my "fighting" rifles are running $2K+ at this point, another $100 and a couple ounces aren't really a concern.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:37:32 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In an emergency situation, if my Aimpoint fails then I will just use its tube as a (very) large aperture iron site. If I knew I was going into battle then sure I'd have BUIS. It would be cool if they made a crosshair front cover for the aimpoint as a backup. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:38:03 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use the aimpoint tube as a big ass ghost ring. Seriously, how many Aimpoint m4's have you people seen fail? Again, I may be wrong but havent the Marine corps seen more irons fail than quality optics? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would you not? They're not really heavy and it's an outstanding backup solution should ANYTHING happen to your primary optic. What're you going to sight with? The rail? Use the aimpoint tube as a big ass ghost ring. Seriously, how many Aimpoint m4's have you people seen fail? Again, I may be wrong but havent the Marine corps seen more irons fail than quality optics? I guess. I don't mind the extra few ounces. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:44:10 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Very true however if your range or where ever you shoot is a hour or more drive away, having backups is nice. Back about nine years ago another Arfcommer I'm friends with wanted to show off his brand new EO tech. I live about an hour and twenty minutes away he lived about 45 min. We get to the range, set up and his EO tech is dead as disco. A couple years later I had a red dot with a wandering zero. I have irons ready now at all times because I'm not spending two hours on the road on wasted range trips. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who cares. Not every rifle in your safe needs to be ready for war at all times. Very true however if your range or where ever you shoot is a hour or more drive away, having backups is nice. Back about nine years ago another Arfcommer I'm friends with wanted to show off his brand new EO tech. I live about an hour and twenty minutes away he lived about 45 min. We get to the range, set up and his EO tech is dead as disco. A couple years later I had a red dot with a wandering zero. I have irons ready now at all times because I'm not spending two hours on the road on wasted range trips. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This thread is about if quality optics need a BUIS. EoTechs always need a BUIS. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:51:30 AM EST
[#39]
If the world goes tits up....where you getting your battery's ?
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:52:29 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like redundancy. You may not need it, but if you do, you'll be real happy it's there. For a range toy, probably not necessary. If you think you might ever need to fight for your life with it, BUIS it is. +1. It's cheap insurance. Why not? |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:54:48 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't even use sights. If you can't point-shoot, then you don't need an AR. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/attachments/rifles-sks-ar-ak-long-guns/6263d1406343326-piston-ar-15-iron-sight-question-ar.jpg wtf, at least have a front sight 
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:57:24 AM EST
[#42]
Yes, of course. And I practice with my irons as well.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 9:59:44 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
wtf, at least have a front sight
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M35cc4c79e0b3227c46f6723ea805371bo0&w=311&h=172&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't even use sights. If you can't point-shoot, then you don't need an AR. http://www.prepperforums.net/forum/attachments/rifles-sks-ar-ak-long-guns/6263d1406343326-piston-ar-15-iron-sight-question-ar.jpg wtf, at least have a front sight
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M35cc4c79e0b3227c46f6723ea805371bo0&w=311&h=172&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0 Skill > sights Murica |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:02:29 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use the aimpoint tube as a big ass ghost ring. Seriously, how many Aimpoint m4's have you people seen fail? Again, I may be wrong but havent the Marine corps seen more irons fail than quality optics? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why would you not? They're not really heavy and it's an outstanding backup solution should ANYTHING happen to your primary optic. What're you going to sight with? The rail? Use the aimpoint tube as a big ass ghost ring. Seriously, how many Aimpoint m4's have you people seen fail? Again, I may be wrong but havent the Marine corps seen more irons fail than quality optics? It's your rifle, do what you want with it. I use BUIS on mine. No matter how robust and reliable an optic is, with my luck it WILL go down when I need it the most.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:02:58 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This thread is about if quality optics need a BUIS. EoTechs always need a BUIS. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who cares. Not every rifle in your safe needs to be ready for war at all times. Very true however if your range or where ever you shoot is a hour or more drive away, having backups is nice. Back about nine years ago another Arfcommer I'm friends with wanted to show off his brand new EO tech. I live about an hour and twenty minutes away he lived about 45 min. We get to the range, set up and his EO tech is dead as disco. A couple years later I had a red dot with a wandering zero. I have irons ready now at all times because I'm not spending two hours on the road on wasted range trips. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This thread is about if quality optics need a BUIS. EoTechs always need a BUIS. EOtech users...
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:04:04 AM EST
[#46]
I have them. I like the view of the front sight and the rear aperture really cleans up the dot for longer rage shooting. My eyes are don't work so well.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:07:00 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Except for the fact that now there is an LED ACOG which takes a battery. Also, it is almost time to send mine back for a tritium replacement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
All of my ARs have irons of some sort. In a SHTF situation batteries may be hard to come by. ACOG for the win. That's not an except. ACOG with or without fiber optic. Mine has the crude rifle sights instead of a mro. I'm good unless it falls off or gets destroyed. Only so much redundancy you can plan for. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:07:19 AM EST
[#48]
On a serious business gun (top), absolutely. I know there are certain instances where the lighting makes picking up the dot difficult. I will just flip the BUIS up and not put in so much work. On a range gun like the bottom, who cares? I do it for the looks, but I rarely use them.
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:08:00 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Red dot rifles get back ups, scoped rifles do not My scoped rifles have them as well. |
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Posted: 9/6/2016 10:08:31 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the world goes tits up....where you getting your battery's ? My battery's what? |
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