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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:27:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Other than looks, which is purely subjective, is there any reason to consider purchasing a Hellcat Challenger? The ZL1 Camaro seems like it made the Hellcat obsolete overnight. Beats it in every performance metric, costs roughly the same, better transmission options, etc. I've just had a huge crush on Hellcats for a while now (granted I like the Charger variant more, but to make the comparison simple I wanted to do 2dr vs 2dr) but now that I'm in the position to purchase one, the ZL1 comes around. I know the LX chassis is ancient to begin with and is due to be replaced by the new one from Alpha, but in a direct comparison is there any reason other than brand loyalty or looks to buy the Hellcat? Hellcat Auto vs. ZL1 Manual: Hellcat is the winner in every heat:  Hellcat Challenger vs ZL1 Camaro Roll-on Race |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:30:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Apple vs orange when comparing those transmissions. Put a manual v manual or auto v auto and I honestly believe the ZL1 would have won. If you really just watch where the Dodge pulled ahead it was at every time the clutch was pressed on the Camaro.
Don't get me wrong, I am trying to be subjective here, but that video is pretty clear where the advantage originated. |
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Posted: 3/29/2017 11:36:08 PM EDT
[#3]
True, and the guy even said that. Too bad their follow up video of a manual Hellcat vs. a manual ZL1 wasn't "apples to apples" either. Dropping a Hennessey HPE750 pack on the ZLI, yeah it's going to win....
 Part 2 - Hellcat vs Hennessey ZL1 Camaro |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:02:19 AM EDT
[#4]
I don't think you can go wrong with either if you are looking for something to make you smile everytime you hit the accelerator. Get the one you like..
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:06:38 AM EDT
[#5]
I wouldnt own either one.
GT350 Track Pack for me if I could afford it. Threshold driving isnt something I am likely to ever get to do. Would rather own the vehicle style I like while still being rediculous fast. I would own a C6 or C7 ZO6 or GrandSport before owning a HellCat or Camaro. Buy whatever you like most. |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:10:50 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldnt own either one. GT350 Track Pack for me if I could afford it. Threshold driving isnt something I am likely to ever get to do. Would rather own the vehicle style I like while still being rediculous fast. I would own a C6 or C7 ZO6 or GrandSport before owning a HellCat or Camaro. Buy whatever you like most. You say threshold driving isn't something you would do often, but wouldn't the Hellcat be closer to it's limits (At least traction and cornering) more often than a Gt350? Might just be misunderstanding the point you're trying to make |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:32:27 AM EDT
[#7]
Without a doubt! A manual will always be a drivers car but modern autos will beat the stick every single time.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Apple vs orange when comparing those transmissions. Put a manual v manual or auto v auto and I honestly believe the ZL1 would have won. If you really just watch where the Dodge pulled ahead it was at every time the clutch was pressed on the Camaro. Don't get me wrong, I am trying to be subjective here, but that video is pretty clear where the advantage originated. |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:33:37 AM EDT
[#8]
That new ZL1 is my dream car in convertible form.
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Posted: 3/30/2017 12:58:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Either will do just about anything I want to do along with cars from just about every major manufacturer. To me they are entirely different and are appealing to different people.
If I bought a Hellcat it would be the Charger because a true 4 door monster is something I always liked. Even better if it looked like a standard charger 
Buy what you want and don't get caught up in the numbers game |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 1:24:49 AM EDT
[#10]
Hellcat vs Camaro isn't a true comparison.....
Go for the Chevy SS (this is the last year), and slap a ProCharger on it, and you'll get better performance for less money. The Chevy SS has been available for 20% of MSRP several times over the last year or so..... At least look into it..... And, with the Chevy SS, NO ONE will know what the heck kind of car it is!!!!! |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 1:50:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Plum Crazy is the only reason... but a good reason it is.
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Posted: 3/30/2017 2:38:28 AM EDT
[#12]
While I really liked the idea of a Hellcat Charger.... I bought this and am happy with the purchase..
The new 10 speed auto has super fast shifts.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 3:01:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd go for a Vette in a second but with a toddler it's not even an option. At least with some of these she can ride along once she's in a forward facing car seat (or any car seat for that matter in the Charger). 4 seats is a must at this point. You say threshold driving isn't something you would do often, but wouldn't the Hellcat be closer to it's limits (At least traction and cornering) more often than a Gt350? Might just be misunderstanding the point you're trying to make At some point self preservation and responsibility enter your mind. I really dont think I have the balls to try to push a GT350, Corvette Z06, ZL1, whatever, to the limits that they might be capable of where you could definitively say which car is "faster" than the other. Eventually I want to hit some HPDE or track days. But pulling up in a car that can be 4-6 seconds faster per lap really going to be that much more fun? If I want stupid rip my face off cornering forces I would by a 125cc TAG kart and goto the kart tracks. Would it be nice to drop the hammer during a roll and show up some other guy? Sure but that isnt where my interests lay. Otherwise I would be putting a whipple or Hellion system on my 2015 and be knocking down stupid amounts of 700+ rwhp. Not really a matter of money as I have 3 stangs in the garage along with a spare engine where I could thin the heard to drop money on my 2015 for stupid levels of power. I suppose it is a bit like the Miata guys talking about how they love their "momentum" cars because it is all they have. I get that the ZL1 and Hellcat are bad ass cars. But other than a talented driver on a test track being able to put the cars through their paces, the differences exist mostly on paper to me. Enough so that you can allow yourself some brand loyalty mixed with preference for style. My unicorn is a 2016 GT350 R. I am not sure I would drive it much harder than my 2015 GT on the roads I drive. At a track day sure? But I doubt I would find myself crying with hindsight that I didnt buy a ZL1 or Z06 to be able to brag about going 4-10 seconds faster per lap. Still fun as hell. Beyond that the Porsche 911 and the Viper are my next loves. Having read your comment about the toddler. Might consider a Charger Hellcat if not the Challenger Hellcat. The Challenger really does have more room in it over a Camaro from what I hear and loads more room than my 2015 mustang(rear seats are a joke). |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 5:22:50 PM EDT
[#14]
If you want a new American OEM RWD car with some muscle that will fit a toddler in the back there are only a few choices:
Chevrolet SS Cadillac CTS V Sport Cadillac V Chrysler Charger Chrysler 300 I am very bias towards the Chevrolet SS, especially with the 20% off MSRP, the price can't be beat. The other RWD cars: ATS, Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, Challenger, don't have enough room in the backseat for a toddler. |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Why can't a child ride in the passenger seat of a Corvette? The airbag disengages if there's less than 50lbs in the seat and on some of them you can manually disable the airbag.
Besides that OP, let me help you out here. I'm not going to write you a book so you'll have to trust me when I tell you I'm an expert when it comes to muscle car (vintage and modern) values, enthusiasm and current and future collectability. So here goes, the Hellcat WILL be a high dollar collectible and WILL be in every high end collectors personal collection. It already is for many of the guys that drive the marketplace. ANytime one of them shows up at Barrett Jackson or Mecum, the bidding goes nuts. everytime. The car taps into the magic of the late 60s "fuck you and your rules" attitude. it is a rolling middle finger to authority. This is why is has such a huge following even though it's only been around for 2 YEARS. Last time I saw enthusiasm like this was when the Viper showed up. So if you didn't get a Hellcat, what would be the next option? 2013-2014 Shelby GT500 - 600hp and solid axle. The GT350 will never have the following or attitude of the previous generation 500s 2009-2014 Corvette ZR-1 - 640hp - this is peak Corvette by every Corvette enthusiasts understanding. It is STILL faster than the new C7 Z06 and weighs less. Future Corvettes will only get heavier which is the enemy of horsepower. I hate to say it but the 2012-now ZL-1 Camaro, nobody gives a shit about it. The 5th gen ZL-1 was too heavy and nobody could ever get it to run the 1/4 miles times that it should have for having 500+hp. Now 6th gen, so far again no one cares because the just like the 5th gen, GM built this camaro for non-camaro people and the real camaro enthusiasts are still staying away or are buying Corvettes / Challengers. It doesn't stand out, they played it too safe and too tame. The ZR1 is DANGEROUS same for the Hellcat which is why they will continue to be the most saught after. Hope this helps. |
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Posted: 3/30/2017 9:44:21 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm not a Chrysler fan at all but if 707 HP isn't a good enough answer then no answer will sate you.
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Posted: 3/31/2017 2:21:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Other than looks, which is purely subjective, is there any reason to consider purchasing a Hellcat Challenger? The ZL1 Camaro seems like it made the Hellcat obsolete overnight. Beats it in every performance metric, costs roughly the same, better transmission options, etc. I've just had a huge crush on Hellcats for a while now (granted I like the Charger variant more, but to make the comparison simple I wanted to do 2dr vs 2dr) but now that I'm in the position to purchase one, the ZL1 comes around. I know the LX chassis is ancient to begin with and is due to be replaced by the new one from Alpha, but in a direct comparison is there any reason other than brand loyalty or looks to buy the Hellcat? I have no idea what the ZL1 is actually selling for currently, but there is a bit of a glut of 2016 Hellcats available, so you can get some pretty serious deals if you look around. I got 11k off sticker on my Challenger about a month ago, and many dealers are anywhere from 4-8k off right off the bat before any further negotiating. And if you don't mind leasing, they have essentially 0% financing and really high residuals (63% 12k miles / 64% 10k miles) available right now, which can equal insanely low monthly payments for this caliber of vehicle, however I don't know if those will carry over into April. I will say, in the 450 miles I've put on mine so far, I've realized that unless you plan to take it to the track, or have some really nice back roads available to you, it's *almost* too much car to truly enjoy. I swear that pulling away from a stop, I only push the throttle down a 1/4 inch and I'm already at 30mph, and have to lift off quickly to avoid a ticket. I've always been a Mustang guy, and was planning on a 2016 GT PP until this deal came along, and if I didn't get such a screaming deal, I think I'd probably enjoy the Mustang a bit more because I could push it a bit harder before worrying about spending the night in jail. I guess I would liken it to all the times I've seen someone say that their S2000 or Miata was more "fun" to drive than a car with 500HP. With that said, I smile every time I hit the remote start and my whole house shakes when the Hellcat fires up, and I've never regretted it for a second when I've been behind the wheel. It's truly an amazing machine. |
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Posted: 3/31/2017 2:30:49 PM EDT
[#18]
If you are tall, a Camaro will not be a good choice. Sit in both cars. Consider how difficult it is to get in and out of the cockpit.
That is why I drive trucks. 
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Posted: 4/1/2017 3:38:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are tall, a Camaro will not be a good choice. Sit in both cars. Consider how difficult it is to get in and out of the cockpit. That is why I drive trucks. |
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Posted: 4/1/2017 5:23:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Sat in both, actually sat in both as well as a GT350. Sunroof in the Camaro and Charger. I didn't fit in the Camaro. In order for my head to not hit the roof I had to have the seat leaned WAY back, uncomfortably so. The Charger not surprisingly fit just fine. Oddly the GT350 had about the same headroom as the Charger for me. Bonus is the kid in a car seat can fit behind the wife in a GT350. Really tempting...
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:48:22 AM EDT
[#21]
You guys are some tall ones. I'm 6'1 and fit fine in my 2017 ZL1. But it does not have a sunroof. My head was almost scraping when I sat in one with a sunroof.
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Posted: 4/2/2017 12:14:38 PM EDT
[#22]
The only reason to ever consider a Hellcat was to talk about how much HP you have and do straight-line runs. If that's your thing (and it is for a lot of people, no shame in that) it's unbeatable bang-for-buck. They're big, roomy, boaty cruisers that are very reminiscent of the muscle cars my dad grew up with. That holds a lot of appeal, and most people will never see a track in their lives. I don't hold the same interest, but it's not a bad admission to make.
I've always liked some tight handling with my power though, so if you wanted to do anything else, I'd look into a 6th gen Camaro, used 09-14 CTS-V, or C5-C7 Corvette. Edit: If you need a backseat, the only American offering that fits your criteria outside of the Charger is the CTS-V, which is one of the best lines of cars ever made, full stop. Nobody is ever sad in a CTS-V. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 12:44:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hellcat vs Camaro isn't a true comparison..... Go for the Chevy SS (this is the last year), and slap a ProCharger on it, and you'll get better performance for less money. The Chevy SS has been available for 20% of MSRP several times over the last year or so..... At least look into it..... And, with the Chevy SS, NO ONE will know what the heck kind of car it is!!!!! |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 12:59:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Camaro SS? I thought the Pick up Vette SSr was not made anymore?? I have not kept up on the newer Chevys. Have we got a new Impala SS??? Basically a Pontiac G8, kind of? I honestly never even saw advertisements or commercials or knew it existed til recently.. lol And apparently it's been out for 4 model years???? 
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Posted: 4/3/2017 1:20:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Yeah, its a Dodge.
 A high performance one at that. In for the ridiculous repair bills and maintenance. 
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Posted: 4/3/2017 7:49:14 AM EDT
[#26]
uh, isnt the hellcat still faster? at least in a straight line?
and the Demon is coming... |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 8:46:41 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
The ZL1 Camaro seems like it made the Hellcat obsolete overnight. But it's still a Chevy...can't polish a turd. |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:17:46 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it's still a Chevy...can't polish a turd.  Mythbusters Polishing a Turd |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 2:21:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
uh, isnt the hellcat still faster? at least in a straight line?
and the Demon is coming... |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 4:40:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Just as Chevy was catching up to the Hellcat....... |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 5:02:46 PM EDT
[#31]
lol - Your title had me thinking of these:
I think I may be getting too old for these threads...
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Posted: 4/5/2017 8:03:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And the Demon will cost double what the ZL1 does. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 4:14:56 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haven't heard the official base price of the Demon yet (did see that Car and Driver predicts a base price of $80,000), but considering the base price of a 2018 ZL1 is right around $60,000, I doubt it will be double. |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 10:19:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol - Your title had me thinking of these: http://www.warbirddepot.com/dbimages/219/219-b-1280.jpg I think I may be getting too old for these threads... This is the magnificent aircraft you seek...  Attached File
TC |
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Posted: 4/6/2017 10:34:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Nobody buys a 700hp+ sedan out of logic and reason. They buy it cause fuuuck yeah.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 10:44:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Or you could get a Tesla and beat both of them.
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Posted: 4/6/2017 10:56:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
While I really liked the idea of a Hellcat Charger.... I bought this and am happy with the purchase.. The new 10 speed auto has super fast shifts. http://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/278567/20170328-150411-176436.JPG |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 1:24:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you could get a Tesla and beat both of them. |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 1:53:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Guess I've played too much World of Tanks because I thought it was this:
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Posted: 4/7/2017 2:25:10 PM EDT
[#40]
They are awesome to drive and are very comfortable. Much easier to get in and out of than the Mustang or Camaro and they have a nice size trunk . They have crazy power and if your not careful you can get in over your head. When equipped with a set of drag radials there isn't much you cant tangle with on the street . I love mine but that's just me and I am sure all the experts on this site will shit talk .
Troy MI |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 3:51:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like you bought it in Hammond, right? Are you a stalker? |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 4:27:24 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you could get a Tesla and beat both of them. |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 8:41:40 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you could get a Tesla and beat both of them. |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 10:40:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are tall, a Camaro will not be a good choice. Sit in both cars. Consider how difficult it is to get in and out of the cockpit. That is why I drive trucks. The new ZL1 with the 10 speed will destroy a fatcat. If you're one of those manual-only people I guess pick whichever one you like more. |
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Posted: 4/7/2017 11:29:03 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or you could get a Tesla and beat both of them. Races go past 90mph |
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Posted: 4/8/2017 8:07:35 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new ZL1 with the 10 speed will destroy a fatcat. If you're one of those manual-only people I guess pick whichever one you like more. |
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Posted: 4/8/2017 12:06:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol no Races go past 90mph  What is it like Racing a Tesla P100D at the Dragstrip vs Hellcats + Corvettes  Tesla Model S P100D Ludicrous Plus Dyno Testing on a Mustang Dyno |
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Posted: 4/8/2017 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote History |
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Posted: 4/9/2017 3:10:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote History Tesla P85+ Silver State Classic Half Mile Shootout  Tesla Model S vs Lexus ISF - 1/2 Mile Drag Race!  Race Wars Camaro vs Tesla 1/2 mile race  1/2 Mile CTS-V vs. Tesla Model S Ludicrous Mode |
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Posted: 4/9/2017 8:09:37 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for proving my point. The Corvette (a 5th gen mind you, which is now 20 years old) trapped the same speed as the Tesla, and although the Tesla reached 122mph faster, it was running out of steam. This is a limitation of electric motors, which I am sure will be overcome eventually, but today? The Tesla can't finish a road course without going into limp mode, and if you stretch into half-mile races, the Tesla is beaten by anything that can accelerate past 140mph. Lame!
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