Posted: 6/19/2005 8:40:21 PM EDT
| ... to build up one's own community? I mean, say someone did what David Koresh did, on a larger scale, ; would the government slam that person and arrest him, even if otherwise there were no crimes committed? if so, what charges could one be pressed with for merely setting up a private community based on religious or cultural beliefs? |
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There is a splinter faction of LDS in El Dorado TX that have done just that...rumor is they practice polygamism. Male children are often expelled from the community to enhance the female/male ratio. And on the other side, many small communities of the religion which shall not be named are being started, centering around their place of religious worship that otherwise shall not be named. These communities are complete with educational facilities to prevent tainting the minds and make for complete brainwashing. |
See i don't see how that works. Those people are obviously breaking the law. Why let it slide? |
I don't know, because polygamy is technically only illegal if you actually get married, having multiple sex partners at one time isn't. |
What law are they breaking? As for the polygamy they would only be breaking the law if they were having multiple marriages under the law, which probably isn't the case. Creating a community of like minded people is not in and of itself illegal. Otherwise we'd still get to stomp a bunch of retired hippies and possibly nudists. |
This may tell why...www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1152-2004Sep6.html |
And how would you suggest that it be stopped. Given that they are likely armed and willing to fight , (not unlike many here) if they thought their "god-given rights" were threatened and contend they intend to fight to the death. Starve them out? probably never happen with any kind of LDS mindset given the keep the year of food concepts. Armed siege? well although that worked for Janet Reno, you can bet it will be a long time before any politician ever considers that method again? To be blunt a political cost-benefit analysis says this is a no win situation for anybody that tries to do anything about it. Now when and if there is enough political uproar over a series of flagrant criminal acts against children, maybe then something might happen. Again that's how the Waco affairs began. It started small and both sides let it escalate out of hand. But it isn't illegal per se, look at the Krishnas, Children of God, various hippy communes, it's when various members or the group itself commits criminal acts (which are criminal no matter who commits them). Otherwise the law generally looks at it as similar to a corporation. |
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very funny... but untrue; however, one is usually allowed to use a Mosque as a place of rest, and it does serve as a community centre of sorts. EDIT: MrClean, visit a mosque, and talk to the Imam for awhile if you haven't already, even as a non-Muslim it should prove interesting, and doing such would give more credibility to one who is anti-Islam, allowing one to say,"I have talked to several Imams, and I get the same crap including *such and such*". not that I am trying to get you to convert, or anything like that... 
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If I ever visit a mosque I'm going in heavy  As for converting, no chance in hell. I will die for God and the U.S.A., I'll never denounce God or my country, I don't care if I run out of ammo and my bayonet broke. I learned all I need to know about islam on 9/11, No I won't forget it either. |
oh well, your loss. look forward to continuing this debate in heaven, should be fun  EDIT: well, if we are both in heaven... sort of proves my views correct, as according to Christianity, both my people(the Muslims) and the Jews are burning in hell 
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Jews aren't going to hell, no virgins for you
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oh no  P.S. MrClean, I respect your views, and you seem like a pretty good guy, but something just bothers me about a guy who only plans on going to mosque with firearms... to kill all those inside  , can't say some people on my side of the fence wouldn't do the same to christians in a church though
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1) An eye for an eye leaves both of you self righteous folks blind. 2) More people have been killed in the name of religion than anything else. "My God can kick your Gods ass." 3) IF you guys are examples of your respective religions, remind me to never come to either of your sides. 4) Klan- bad "Christians" AlQuaida- bad "Muslims" I know it told me to judge not, but I cant see either of you guys passing His muster. |
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I don't understand what the big deal is over plural marriages. After all, it is perfectly ok in states like Kalifornia for two men (or two women) to marry each other, and it is perfectly ok to have multiple girl friends (or boy friends) but heaven help the person who wants to marry more than one wife. We live in screwed up society, where it is encouraged to have sex outside of marriage, it is encouraged by the media to have an extra-maritial affair, it is ok to have an Abortion, it is ok to pass out Condoms in a public school and encourage children to practice sex , it is ok to have an underage girl have an abortion and not inform the parents. It is ok to have partial birth abortions. It is ok, to engage in homosexuality. It is ok to practice any religion (except Christianity). Sorry for the Rant. Sometimes the hypocrisy and dishonesty gets to me. On the Mormon Fundamentalists: yeah there are a number of colonies where plural marriages are practiced. And a lot of boys are being expelled from both Colorado City, AZ, and Hill Dale, UT. Jeff's is a friggin lunatic. They have built a colony in Eldorado, TX, and they built a smaller more secluded one in Mancos, CO. The biggest drawback about the plural marriages, is that since the communities are so small, everyone is related to each other, there are a lot of harmful genetic diseases that come into play. The other draw back is that young men and teenage boys end up on the losing end of things, since they represent competition for the older men. |
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Funny, but oh so true Mr.Clean..... You have my vote ! Problem today is that everyone is worrying about the rights of all these damn muslims we have in custody.... I say fuck'm.... well mainly the media and the lawyers of the US. Those fuckers in Iraq and Afghanistan behead innocent people, people trying to help the helpless ( totally excluding US millitary personel ) and everyone wants us to lighten up on our interrogation techniques.... Pa-fucking-leez ! Does anyone remember watching the planes crash into 2 of our buildings and 1 crash into the ground, no survivors.... World Trade Centers burning and crashing to the ground... people on fire jumping out of windows, etc..... ???? Anyone ??? Not all muslims are against us, but if I had to take a conservative guess I would say 99.9 % of the assholes are. So no sympothy will they get from me. Nor would I be visiting their place of worship, refuge / suicide bombing plot " mosque " I am very very open to religion and spirituality, but those fuckers are bad news and yes I will profile them and be a stereotypical person in the matter. It's my right. Want to hear some crazy 1st ammendment shit, then you should come to my hometown and listen to the muslims "sunday" morning broadcast on the radio ( very very local mosque ), they want us dead and they don't care to tell us about it on our own radio waves. They are recruiting every sunday and brainwashing.... People can blast Christianity, but I say read the gospels.... Jesus/ God = Love.... Nuff said. 9-11, I remember.... do you  ETA : EBRApologist, maybe you fall into my .1 % category. And personally, I just wish that every religion would just keep to itself and avoid eachother, kinda like a religion segregation. This way there are no wars.... that's my dream. BTW, if I were to meet a muslim('s), I wouldn't plan on killing them or packing heat into their place of worship... but I also wouldn't be open to talking to them. I have a hard enough time figuring out my own religion. |
ahh, the Bubba voter . |
. do a favor and actually listen to Muslims, and quit just regurgitating whatever Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter say, it really makes people think less of you.|
Getting back to focus here, the Eldorado LDS splinter faction has been renounced by the mainstream LDS authorities because of their beliefs and practices. I have seen NOTHING from "mainstream" Islam condemning the terrorist activites of 9-11 which is precisely why all factions of Islam have been rightly or wrongly, lumped in with the worst. Show us you are different. But deep down, I feel this is something the "Borgian mentality" of Islam cannot do. |
any other communities that are non LDS based, like say, seperatist group compounds? I have stated in another thread what has happened with Islam in the media, and the apparent lack of outcry against terrorism, the same lack of media coverage of Christians decrying abortion clinic bombings... but I promised I would not say any more about it. |
Who cares what the truth is when you get a national audience to say something stupid to. Expecially if you can broadcast your ignorance. (That or he knows better and is lying on purpose???) |
umm no you're not correct in assuming that. How many more examples of that not happening do you need. (And if you think that some of the Koresh group wasn't in to molestation or abuse you are being very selective in the blinders you are wearing.) In fact I think if you really look at the history (instead of trying to support your flawed hypothesis, there's those blinders again) of various "communities" there are actually very few if any that the government broke up for minor violations or "any little crime". Again, may we point out a whole host of communes in the 70's, Synanon, various cults, (Jim Jones, Children of God,) Heaven's Gate (comet suicide). In fact one could likely argue that it is in the best interest of the people that the government break up more of these groups (I wouldn't but when you look at the damage many do to their members???) BEFORE they graduate to the higher levels of negative activity. |
Pure to the "Borgian mind control", you forgot the pictures of the people celebrating 9-11. Blame it on the media but do not bring about a strawman arguement and a weak one at that. How many priests, pastors and clergy celebrate that violent act? Trust me, there are PLENTY Catholics who believe in upholding Roe vs. Wade. Even some priests. Odd? No, there is no Christian mind control. |
Yeah, kinda interesting isn't it ? I will see you on the battlefield because it is so unAR15.comish to come and defend such things knowing good and well that most people on this board would strongly disagree with you and hell... most would just as well tell you to fuck off ....amongst other things. I gave my 2 cintz and I will leave your thread, but you can forget converting anyone here... or getting sympothy or "understanding" from arfcommers in general. 9-11, plus all the other shit that happened before and after regarding your people cannot be forgotten. At least good ol' Christian Americans through history have not resorted to being cowards and strapping bombs to themselves, hi-jacking planes / for ransom or release of inprisoned friends... or flown planes into buildings, etc... We will bomb the fuck out of a "country" for political reasons.... We don't hide behind religion and try to win a ticket to heaven by killing infidels or innocent people. Terrorists are 100% pure cowards, muslim or not ! I'd like some peace and quiet in the US again, if this involves turning the Middle East into a glass parking lot, then so be it. Disclaimer* the above statements are somewhat accurate but cannot be guarenteed due to it being 3:30am, I apologize for any inconvience to those that actually give a shit about this thread. After all... it is only an opinion among many. Please continue with your lives. |
Great, just what we need, another apologist muslim sympathizer with knowledge that can (and possibly will) be used against us.... Oh and i hav ebeen to a mosque, without being armed (back when I was looking into chosing a religion) I was unimpressed, and leery to say the least. Would I go near a mosque now unarmed? nope, then again, I prefer to go everywhere armed. It is not because the mosque is full of Muslims, though that has a great deal to do with it. On your "I said I would not mention it again" topic, there were plenty of Christian churches that spoke out against the Abortionist Killings, I can't say the same about September 11th 2001, in fact I did not hear a single apology, or harsh comment towards the attackers from ANY Imam or mosque, not on the News here, Not on Al Jazeera. I saw a large number of people in the news dancing and celebrating.... they did the sam when th eColumbia went down, and when the Cole was bombed..... actually it seems that the RoP seems to like dancing whenever something befalls the USofA. But you are too busy aplogizing for their behaviour, attacking Christians as though they act the same as Islam to realize the truth. The time has come, we are in a new Crusade, the world will soon be painted in the blood of Muslims, flowing over the blood of innocents they have killed to warrant our outrage... (Don't forget Beslan either you fuckign RoP piece of trash...... I can assure you WE do nto forget, ever!) EBRApologist you can go to Hell, and take your anti Christian anti American trolling with you |