Posted: 11/23/2008 5:34:02 AM EDT
|
http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2008/11/22/what-must-be-done-to-avoid-financial-destruction/
The sky is falling? Anyone have thoughts on this guy??? |
|
I've been reading his stuff for a while.
Seems to be pointing out stuff that others also are. My take on this is that as long as the rest of the world keeps playing along with us and funding our debt and using the dollar then we'll get out of this. (That's my impression. I'm no expert on the matter.) BUT if and when they stop buying Treasuries and start dumping he dollar. Then we're screwed. I'm not sure what screwed looks like exactly or if it their be a point where we can look at each other and say 'Wow, we're screwed'. |
|
What happens when a debtor can't borrow anymore?
He stops spending because nobody takes his IOUs anymore, and whoever he owes repossesses any asets of value, right? If the world stops buying Treasuries, we stop spending money we don't have, some assets get seized by foreign powers, most assets, especially large ones, stay right where they are, and a LOT of US companies go out of business. Sometimes a scary black cloud on the horizon is just damp and gray when you're in it. |
|
Quoted: The problem is when WE start to lose OUR Super Power Status, other countries,i.e. China/Russia, will start to flex their "Military Might" in "New Conflicts". One reason WWII started, Hitler hedged his bets that the US could not Intervene because of OUR Great Depression. Japan got "BOLD" and we got out of OUR Depression and "Saved the Day". "War" is coming, but WE are not retooling factories to Manufacture what we need, so what type of "War" will it be; Doesn't mean "Bloodshed".I've been reading his stuff for a while. Seems to be pointing out stuff that others also are. My take on this is that as long as the rest of the world keeps playing along with us and funding our debt and using the dollar then we'll get out of this. (That's my impression. I'm no expert on the matter.) Every Country is trying to "figure" out how to DUMP the US Dollar, but to many DOLLARS are being held to Dump (Incestuous Relationship). "They" are pushing for a new MONETARY system to change to because the US DOLLAR will soon have NO value, except for here in the STATES, and "They" want to get some "Value" while they can. Bailouts/Stimulus is just buying time for the "Players" to position themselves for the Inevitable. BUT if and when they stop buying Treasuries and start dumping he dollar. Then we're screwed. I'm not sure what screwed looks like exactly or if it their be a point where we can look at each other and say 'Wow, we're screwed'. The TREASURY/FED/FDIC can't come up with Physical MONEY(with Real Value) when the "Run" comes, that's why almost every market is so Volatile; NO ONE knows How DEEP this actually goes!?!? Their COOKED Books are exposed and everyone wants INSURANCE that guarantees the UN-Insurable. WE will know "we're screwed" when "Everyman for Himself" starts happening across the States/World; PANIC... I thought Wars we're fought to "Save" or "FREE" Humanity from "EVIL", but realize WAR is a "Chess" Game to DEFEND a Country's MONETARY SYSTEM. If you control the MONEY, you really do have the POWER. If everyone's "DOLLAR" is "EQUAL", then let the Pissing Match Begin! |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The problem is when WE start to lose OUR Super Power Status, other countries,i.e. China/Russia, will start to flex their "Military Might" in "New Conflicts". One reason WWII started, Hitler hedged his bets that the US could not Intervene because of OUR Great Depression. Japan got "BOLD" and we got out of OUR Depression and "Saved the Day". "War" is coming, but WE are not retooling factories to Manufacture what we need, so what type of "War" will it be; Doesn't mean "Bloodshed".
I've been reading his stuff for a while. Seems to be pointing out stuff that others also are. My take on this is that as long as the rest of the world keeps playing along with us and funding our debt and using the dollar then we'll get out of this. (That's my impression. I'm no expert on the matter.) Every Country is trying to "figure" out how to DUMP the US Dollar, but to many DOLLARS are being held to Dump (Incestuous Relationship). "They" are pushing for a new MONETARY system to change to because the US DOLLAR will soon have NO value, except for here in the STATES, and "They" want to get some "Value" while they can. Bailouts/Stimulus is just buying time for the "Players" to position themselves for the Inevitable. BUT if and when they stop buying Treasuries and start dumping he dollar. Then we're screwed. I'm not sure what screwed looks like exactly or if it their be a point where we can look at each other and say 'Wow, we're screwed'. The TREASURY/FED/FDIC can't come up with Physical MONEY(with Real Value) when the "Run" comes, that's why almost every market is so Volatile; NO ONE knows How DEEP this actually goes!?!? Their COOKED Books are exposed and everyone wants INSURANCE that guarantees the UN-Insurable. WE will know "we're screwed" when "Everyman for Himself" starts happening across the States/World; PANIC... I thought Wars we're fought to "Save" or "FREE" Humanity from "EVIL", but realize WAR is a "Chess" Game to DEFEND a Country's MONETARY SYSTEM. If you control the MONEY, you really do have the POWER. If everyone's "DOLLAR" is "EQUAL", then let the Pissing Match Begin! So it boils down to the golden rule?? "He who has the gold makes the rules". This is not good. I would like to have a simple answer. I don't think that there is one. |
|
Quoted: Unfortunately, No Simple Answers. You have to be AWARE of the GAME, and start thinking a little "Dirty" to protect you and yours. WE will make it through this "Crisis". What will WE be left with how/when IT ends, is what's scary. Quoted: Quoted: The problem is when WE start to lose OUR Super Power Status, other countries,i.e. China/Russia, will start to flex their "Military Might" in "New Conflicts". One reason WWII started, Hitler hedged his bets that the US could not Intervene because of OUR Great Depression. Japan got "BOLD" and we got out of OUR Depression and "Saved the Day". "War" is coming, but WE are not retooling factories to Manufacture what we need, so what type of "War" will it be; Doesn't mean "Bloodshed".I've been reading his stuff for a while. Seems to be pointing out stuff that others also are. My take on this is that as long as the rest of the world keeps playing along with us and funding our debt and using the dollar then we'll get out of this. (That's my impression. I'm no expert on the matter.) Every Country is trying to "figure" out how to DUMP the US Dollar, but to many DOLLARS are being held to Dump (Incestuous Relationship). "They" are pushing for a new MONETARY system to change to because the US DOLLAR will soon have NO value, except for here in the STATES, and "They" want to get some "Value" while they can. Bailouts/Stimulus is just buying time for the "Players" to position themselves for the Inevitable. BUT if and when they stop buying Treasuries and start dumping he dollar. Then we're screwed. I'm not sure what screwed looks like exactly or if it their be a point where we can look at each other and say 'Wow, we're screwed'. The TREASURY/FED/FDIC can't come up with Physical MONEY(with Real Value) when the "Run" comes, that's why almost every market is so Volatile; NO ONE knows How DEEP this actually goes!?!? Their COOKED Books are exposed and everyone wants INSURANCE that guarantees the UN-Insurable. WE will know "we're screwed" when "Everyman for Himself" starts happening across the States/World; PANIC... I thought Wars we're fought to "Save" or "FREE" Humanity from "EVIL", but realize WAR is a "Chess" Game to DEFEND a Country's MONETARY SYSTEM. If you control the MONEY, you really do have the POWER. If everyone's "DOLLAR" is "EQUAL", then let the Pissing Match Begin! So it boils down to the golden rule?? "He who has the gold makes the rules". This is not good. I would like to have a simple answer. I don't think that there is one. I think, Our "9/11 Moment" will be when Supermarket Shelves are Not as "Full", not from "food shortages", but because of Shipping delays. No Credit Means, Cash Only; Will WE have to Pre-Pay for our Food, or even Gas for that matter? What the "Experts" have done to OUR Dollar is weaken it greatly causing: Deflation on almost everything because of an "Over Supply"i.e. Cars/Homes from DEFAULTS. Inflation on Food/Energy because of "Dried Up Credit" causing a supply shortage. "They" are telling us what's coming, just read between the lines, and stop listening to the "Experts"; use YOUR common-sense. We got here from "BAD" Loans, well my question stands unanswered: What happens when the "GOOD" Loans go BAD?? Can WE really "Print" that much MONEY? Just my opinion  |
|
Quoted:
My gut tells me to buy mass quanities of can food. My head says no, it won't be that bad, but then again... Well I guess I'll mosey over to the SF where I belong. Trust YOUR Gut and DO IT NOW! If WE are wrong then OUR EGO might get hurt, but what if WE are RIGHT? YOUR gut says it all, SOMETHING is NOT RIGHT. |
|
Name one other commodity that sales have doubled that has gone down in price.
Gold is the only one. Sales of coins have doubled in the last year and are in short supply yet the price has dropped during this time by 20%. So what? The price of gold is being manipulated. It is the only explanation. Now had it not been, the world may be in worse shape than it is. If gold were 2 to 3 thousand dollars an ounce today, it would imply that there is much less faith in the dollar or other currencies. Since it has gone down in price the average guy (not the smart ones) doesn't think that there are any advantages to having it over the paper dollar. When its value can not be contained is when the end is near. Watch its price daily for signs of this happening. Currently there is deflation going on. If you have dollars they are worth more everyday. This of course can only last so long when the government is printing trillions of dollars that the world knows we can not pay back. Our life as we know it will be over if or when the dollar becomes worthless. I hope that this doesn't happen but the chances get greater everyday. If it does happen, the real bad news is gold will probably be worthless as well until stability occurs. |
|
Quoted:
Name one other commodity that sales have doubled that has gone down in price. Gold is the only one. Sales of coins have doubled in the last year and are in short supply yet the price has dropped during this time by 20%. So what? The price of gold is being manipulated. It is the only explanation. Now had it not been, the world may be in worse shape than it is. If gold were 2 to 3 thousand dollars an ounce today, it would imply that there is much less faith in the dollar or other currencies. Since it has gone down in price the average guy (not the smart ones) doesn't think that there are any advantages to having it over the paper dollar. When its value can not be contained is when the end is near. Watch its price daily for signs of this happening. Currently there is deflation going on. If you have dollars they are worth more everyday. This of course can only last so long when the government is printing trillions of dollars that the world knows we can not pay back. Our life as we know it will be over if or when the dollar becomes worthless. I hope that this doesn't happen but the chances get greater everyday. If it does happen, the real bad news is gold will probably be worthless as well until stability occurs. Coin sales??? most gold is turned into jewelry... With the economy on the fritz do you think people are going to be lining up to buy frivolous gold jewelry? 
The only reason gold's drop has not mirrored other PMs/commodities is that the gold cult refuses to believe... There's no conspiracy. To lok at the disconnect from reality gold has taken, look at the platinum price, because gold bugs keep chugging the kool-aid, gold is almost worth more than platinum now! |
|
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store.
DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. |
| If you must buy gold, don't buy jewelry. You're paying for the labor and you never get your money back on it. Buy gold coins, preferably 1/10th ounce. They're easier to move or trade than 1 oz. coins. BTW, if you must go into precious metals, get silver coins. They even easier to move than a 1/10th ounce gold coin. |
|
Quoted:
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
My gut tells me to buy mass quanities of can food. My head says no, it won't be that bad, but then again... Well I guess I'll mosey over to the SF where I belong. Trust YOUR Gut and DO IT NOW! If WE are wrong then OUR EGO might get hurt, but what if WE are RIGHT? YOUR gut says it all, SOMETHING is NOT RIGHT. Okay so I'm a doomer, I can live with that, Literally. 
|
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The problem is when WE start to lose OUR Super Power Status, other countries,i.e. China/Russia, will start to flex their "Military Might" in "New Conflicts". One reason WWII started, Hitler hedged his bets that the US could not Intervene because of OUR Great Depression. Japan got "BOLD" and we got out of OUR Depression and "Saved the Day". "War" is coming, but WE are not retooling factories to Manufacture what we need, so what type of "War" will it be; Doesn't mean "Bloodshed".
I've been reading his stuff for a while. Seems to be pointing out stuff that others also are. My take on this is that as long as the rest of the world keeps playing along with us and funding our debt and using the dollar then we'll get out of this. (That's my impression. I'm no expert on the matter.) Every Country is trying to "figure" out how to DUMP the US Dollar, but to many DOLLARS are being held to Dump (Incestuous Relationship). "They" are pushing for a new MONETARY system to change to because the US DOLLAR will soon have NO value, except for here in the STATES, and "They" want to get some "Value" while they can. Bailouts/Stimulus is just buying time for the "Players" to position themselves for the Inevitable. BUT if and when they stop buying Treasuries and start dumping he dollar. Then we're screwed. I'm not sure what screwed looks like exactly or if it their be a point where we can look at each other and say 'Wow, we're screwed'. The TREASURY/FED/FDIC can't come up with Physical MONEY(with Real Value) when the "Run" comes, that's why almost every market is so Volatile; NO ONE knows How DEEP this actually goes!?!? Their COOKED Books are exposed and everyone wants INSURANCE that guarantees the UN-Insurable. WE will know "we're screwed" when "Everyman for Himself" starts happening across the States/World; PANIC... I thought Wars we're fought to "Save" or "FREE" Humanity from "EVIL", but realize WAR is a "Chess" Game to DEFEND a Country's MONETARY SYSTEM. If you control the MONEY, you really do have the POWER. If everyone's "DOLLAR" is "EQUAL", then let the Pissing Match Begin! Except we can be self-sufficient if forced to. If (when?) foreigners stop buying Treasuries, and the dollar collapses, we can simply pull back and regroup here. Leave the rest of the world to its' own devices. There will be a hell of a lot of international strife, as a dollar collapse will rock the entire world economy. Our economy would take a gut-punch, and our standard of living would decrease. But we could easily survive as a nation, even though that nation wouldn't be what we are today or even where we're going today. In 20 years, we could be making everything we need here, possibly exporting and importing some things, and let the Chinese deal with oil state terrorists and tinpot dictators waving nuclear weapons around. An awful lot of people shriek that that's impossible, that we're inextricably tied into the global economy, etc. etc. But there is the way we'd like things to be, and there's the way they are. If bone cancer sets into your leg, or gangrene, you can shriek about how important your leg is to you, and you must have it, etc... and when you wake up minus a leg, you can pout, or you can accept the new reality and learn to get along without. We have soldiers going into combat with one leg... as a nation, we can do the same. Sure, ideally, we'd all join hands in a glorious one-world economy and get along with each other. But, more and more, that requires a reduction in the American and Western standard of living so that the Third World can "get their share". Globally, it's no different than enough US voters voting for Obama to "spread the wealth"... the same thing happens on a global scale. We can, and should, say "No", if that's what it comes to. Only thing is, democracy won't survive... but it's not such a terrific means of governing anyways. Allowing the stupidest and laziest 51% of the country to determine our course is insane. The only way a democracy can thrive is when the voters are informed and have a stake in the success of society. We no longer have that... we have a system where advertising is used to capture votes by any means necessary, and the vote of the public is for the greatest basket of "free" government-provided goodies. That system cannot survive. |
|
Quoted:
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. You're too much a product of the present-day system. You think in "dollars" because that's what we use for commerce. In that frame of reference, gold is "worth" a certain number of dollars, and the dollar is what holds value. But the dollar is an abstraction, a piece of paper. In a situation where "nobody has cash", of what value is cash any more? Commerce does not come to a complete, eternal halt because there are no pieces of paper being handed around. Gold has been used as money throughout all of human history except in a very few, very isolated cases. When there is no more paper money is when gold and silver will come back into their own. Why? For the same reason they have always had value... both are a dense, portable store of wealth. An ounce of gold might be worth a cow, or a rifle, or 100 lbs. of food... but you can carry it in your pocket and subdivide it into smaller amounts which do not then lose their value. What is the worth of half a rifle, or half of a dead cow? How easy is it to conduct transactions denominated in bushels of wheat? We've been "weaned" off of gold as "money" for over 70 years for a number of reasons. A gold standard monetary system does not allow for the growth or management of a fiat money system. It also does not allow the degree of government or "monetary authority" control that a fiat system does. I'm the last person on Earth who would suggest we should go back on a gold standard. But, we might be forced to. If we weer to return to a gold standard today, our economy would evaporate tomorrow. But if our monetary system collapses, we'll wind up back on a gold standard because that's the inevitable progression from a primitive, clunky straight barter system. And, after such a collapse, it would be generations before fiat money was accepted again, or even deposit claims for physical gold. Gold is money. It is no longer currency, but it is money. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. |
|
Quoted: Hedge Funds were dumping GOLD because their "Clients" Wanted out, so they had to come up with CASH, relatively quick; A Lot of CASH. One reason why Gold has not skyrocketed, yet.Quoted: Quoted: Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. You have to hold physical gold, i.e. coins/bars for it to be worth anything. Certificates just can't be guaranteed, if their is a "Collapse" I think the theory behind GOLD is that it has always had VALUE since the beginning of times. Whether $10 or $2000, it's worth SOMETHING. Paper/Certificates are only WORTH anything as long as you have someone willing to except it; otherwise, it's used to start FIRES.  |
|
He sells gold. He says you should buy gold. Do the math.
Commodities overall, including gold, are dropping in the general deflation. Gold just hasn't dropped as much, because people are worried about the future. Right now cash is where it's at. Almost all other assets––real estate, commodities, gold, equities––are declining in dollar terms, and steeply. |
|
Quoted:
He sells gold. He says you should buy gold. Do the math. Commodities overall, including gold, are dropping in the general deflation. Gold just hasn't dropped as much, because people are worried about the future. Right now cash is where it's at. Almost all other assets––real estate, commodities, gold, equities––are declining in dollar terms, and steeply. How is your track record for advice? Were you wrong one to two years ago about where we would be today??? |
|
Quoted:
How is your track record for advice? Were you wrong one to two years ago about where we would be today??? Right in broad outlines. Spotted the housing market crash coming a mile away and told everyone here about it. I underestimated the effect on the banks, though––I figured they'd sold all the crap to someone else rather than keeping it on their books. I was thinking that the wealth effect would cause consumer spending to dry up, and it has, but the wealth destruction also wiped out the banks. Got into mostly cash and short term bonds in late 2006, about a year too early, but not that bad in retrospect. Alas I didn't know anything about credit default swaps, but I don't have the net worth to play in that game anyway, so it was mostly a matter of avoiding getting hammered rather than actively profiting on it. |
|
Well...
You're going to get 3 types in here: 1) The 'One World Government Conspiracy' folks, who have been spouting the same crap since 1988 or before... 2) Gold Bugs 3) 'Decoupling' advocates, who think that the world really *can* dump the USD In fact, the world can't dump the dollar, and appears to be doing the exact opposite... With the exception of Iran (which has obvious political motivation), the USD and US Treasuries are in record demand right now... |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hedge Funds were dumping GOLD because their "Clients" Wanted out, so they had to come up with CASH, relatively quick; A Lot of CASH. One reason why Gold has not skyrocketed, yet.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. You have to hold physical gold, i.e. coins/bars for it to be worth anything. Certificates just can't be guaranteed, if their is a "Collapse" I think the theory behind GOLD is that it has always had VALUE since the beginning of times. Whether $10 or $2000, it's worth SOMETHING. Paper/Certificates are only WORTH anything as long as you have someone willing to except it; otherwise, it's used to start FIRES.
And the gold-buggery continues... The problem with your theories are: 1) If the 'SHTF' bad enough to wipe the dollar, gold will have no utility and be effectively worthless... Because if that happens, civilization will 'go away', and one of your gold coins will be lucky to get you 1 gallon of gasoline or ethanol... That's a damn severe loss of value... 2) The present economic situation is deflationary, and all the 'hope' and 'faith' in the so-called enduring value of gold won't save you when the bottom drops out... Gold is presently overvalued, because people like GlockO are buying in, out of Pavlovian habit... The problem is that the economic indicators point to gold following Oil down - NOT staying at $700-800 fix price, much less climbing higher... The only folks who are predicting 'higher' gold are the True Believers, and it's out of ideological conviction, not market fundimentals |
|
Quoted: Kinda going off the deep end, don't ya think Quoted: Quoted: Hedge Funds were dumping GOLD because their "Clients" Wanted out, so they had to come up with CASH, relatively quick; A Lot of CASH. One reason why Gold has not skyrocketed, yet.Quoted: Quoted: Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. You have to hold physical gold, i.e. coins/bars for it to be worth anything. Certificates just can't be guaranteed, if their is a "Collapse" I think the theory behind GOLD is that it has always had VALUE since the beginning of times. Whether $10 or $2000, it's worth SOMETHING. Paper/Certificates are only WORTH anything as long as you have someone willing to except it; otherwise, it's used to start FIRES. And the gold-buggery continues... The problem with your theories are: 1) If the 'SHTF' bad enough to wipe the dollar, gold will have no utility and be effectively worthless... Because if that happens, civilization will 'go away', and one of your gold coins will be lucky to get you 1 gallon of gasoline or ethanol... That's a damn severe loss of value... 2) The present economic situation is deflationary, and all the 'hope' and 'faith' in the so-called enduring value of gold won't save you when the bottom drops out... Gold is presently overvalued, because people like GlockO are buying in, out of Pavlovian habit... The problem is that the economic indicators point to gold following Oil down - NOT staying at $700-800 fix price, much less climbing higher... The only folks who are predicting 'higher' gold are the True Believers, and it's out of ideological conviction, not market fundimentals  Seems like a lot of folks have an incredible amount of confidence, and hope and faith, in our government beaurocrats....kinda out of Pavlovian habit. |
|
Not to be a wet blanket or add to any argument here, but there is a rather interesting "Quirk" to the Metals trade currently.
Paper silver and Gold is prety much bieng traded at "Spot" plus fees, and is business as "Normal". Just pick up the phone and buy or sell. Physical Metal trade however has become "Odd". You can call and order 1,000 ounces of Silver, and pay for it all you want. Good luck on a delivery date. Scrounge the small to middle sized shops that trade Metals, and you are in for a treat. There's a whole lot of junk silver coins coming in right now, and going out just as fast, and at times, WAAAY over spot because of legal issues remembered (Pre-Ban Silver coins?) by those buying. Assayer marked flats and rounds have dried up, and Eagles are hens teeth. Best guestimates (U.S. Geological survey projections aside) are that Silver was oversold beyond physical existence or potential years ago, and without manipulation of the market, would out value Gold by a good margin. Folks seem to be grabbing all there is, as fast as others can sell. Gold is just as goofy lately, but it's all small eagles and old currency in demand. I watched a gent trade ounces for 1/4 ounces today while he took a 8% loss. The two Dealers I trust are not doomers, or tinfoil types. But they have noted that things aren't "Right" lately, and they are nervous about getting stuck with anythng but currency Metals if the time comes. Trust the dollar all ya want, I do. If you tinker with Metals, be carefull and choose wisely. Paper and ink is NOT metal, and if you can't hold it in your hand, you don't own it. I hope Dave A is right.... If not, well..... a couple ounces stashed, is worth more than him admitting he was wrong. Be carefull gents. S-28 |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Kinda going off the deep end, don't ya think Quoted:
Quoted:
Hedge Funds were dumping GOLD because their "Clients" Wanted out, so they had to come up with CASH, relatively quick; A Lot of CASH. One reason why Gold has not skyrocketed, yet.
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. You have to hold physical gold, i.e. coins/bars for it to be worth anything. Certificates just can't be guaranteed, if their is a "Collapse" I think the theory behind GOLD is that it has always had VALUE since the beginning of times. Whether $10 or $2000, it's worth SOMETHING. Paper/Certificates are only WORTH anything as long as you have someone willing to except it; otherwise, it's used to start FIRES.
And the gold-buggery continues... The problem with your theories are: 1) If the 'SHTF' bad enough to wipe the dollar, gold will have no utility and be effectively worthless... Because if that happens, civilization will 'go away', and one of your gold coins will be lucky to get you 1 gallon of gasoline or ethanol... That's a damn severe loss of value... 2) The present economic situation is deflationary, and all the 'hope' and 'faith' in the so-called enduring value of gold won't save you when the bottom drops out... Gold is presently overvalued, because people like GlockO are buying in, out of Pavlovian habit... The problem is that the economic indicators point to gold following Oil down - NOT staying at $700-800 fix price, much less climbing higher... The only folks who are predicting 'higher' gold are the True Believers, and it's out of ideological conviction, not market fundimentals
Seems like a lot of folks have an incredible amount of confidence, and hope and faith, in our government beaurocrats....kinda out of Pavlovian habit. If the dollar collapses, it wipes out everything... Unrecoverable, civilization-ending event... Not a habit, just an objective view of the situation.... 'Pavlovian habit' describes the knee-jerk, uninformed 'Economy going down, MUST BUY GOLD' reaction that certain people have... That factor is entirely responsible for the irrationally high value of gold... VS the USD, which derives it's value from the US economy, and the strength/stability of our government.... There's actually something THERE to support the USD, vs fairy tales, hope & faith with gold... |
|
Quoted:
If the dollar collapses, it wipes out everything... Unrecoverable, civilization-ending event... Your opinion is not backed by history. In fact, it is contrary to history. How you be so eager to prove your point that you willfully ignore all of human history, including the American revolution, the Civil War, and WWII? Why do you think that the USD is so unique, so special that the natural laws fail to apply? Why do you think the Nazi's collected bribes and gold teeth? What do you think many of them bought their own freedom with after the war? Gold is a universal store of value. No matter how bad things get, there are always people who maintain wealth, power and prestige. Those people are interested in gold as a way to store their wealth. I guarantee you that right now- gold will buy you food, freedom, weapons and women even in the worst parts of modern day Africa. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
If the dollar collapses, it wipes out everything... Unrecoverable, civilization-ending event... Your opinion is not backed by history. In fact, it is contrary to history. How you be so eager to prove your point that you willfully ignore all of human history, including the American revolution, the Civil War, and WWII? Why do you think that the USD is so unique, so special that the natural laws fail to apply? Why do you think the Nazi's collected bribes and gold teeth? What do you think many of them bought their own freedom with after the war? Gold is a universal store of value. No matter how bad things get, there are always people who maintain wealth, power and prestige. Those people are interested in gold as a way to store their wealth. I guarantee you that right now- gold will buy you food, freedom, weapons and women even in the worst parts of modern day Africa. It's not contrary to history.... The problem is that you are looking at minor to former players.... The rest of the world's economies are so heavily dependant on the US, that if we go, we wipe out EVERYONE with us. The Germans could 'buy' things with Gold because of the Allies still having functional economies that were NOT dependant on Germany... We were also reconstructing their nation under the Marshall Plan at the time... There is no equivalence for the US... If we go, we wipe out the whole western world, and gold will essentially be worthless, simply for lack of utility.... 'Preserving wealth' won't be a concern - staying alive will be.... |
|
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hedge Funds were dumping GOLD because their "Clients" Wanted out, so they had to come up with CASH, relatively quick; A Lot of CASH. One reason why Gold has not skyrocketed, yet.Quoted: Quoted: Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store. DOLLARS are what are about to get real scarce. That is why the price of GOLD is DOWN even though the government is printing money as fast as they can. The reason is that something on the order of a couple hundred TRILLION dollars have vanished into overvalued assets that were bubble priced. Even the government is going to have real trouble inflating the economy with currency. Just dollars, that is all you need. Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR. What is the price of gold then? It's just jewelry. This is the question I had, "Gold ia worthless when nobody has the cash to buy it from you and you can't use a gold coin at the gas station or grocery store..."... just how practical are gold coins? Your saying not at all. "...Wait a few years and see if you have even ONE DOLLAR...." What is the scenario you envision here? you guys are out of your mind! Countries rise and fall currency devalues, gold will never be worth "nothing". Gold coins have both monetary and intrinsic value. You have to hold physical gold, i.e. coins/bars for it to be worth anything. Certificates just can't be guaranteed, if their is a "Collapse" I think the theory behind GOLD is that it has always had VALUE since the beginning of times. Whether $10 or $2000, it's worth SOMETHING. Paper/Certificates are only WORTH anything as long as you have someone willing to except it; otherwise, it's used to start FIRES. Let me start be telling you I'm SELF-EMPLOYED, don't "PLAY" the markets and won't touch GOLD. The PYRAMID Scam is NOT for ME. Hopefully, the Day will come when my Home is paid off, and the "STICKS" are worth SOMETHING  RELYING on MYSELF, will, hopefully, get MY Family through this MESS, Guns/Ammo and FOOD might help also  Lesson in Life#356=Fast Money MADE is Fast Money LOST. And the gold-buggery continues... The problem with your theories are: 1) If the 'SHTF' bad enough to wipe the dollar, gold will have no utility and be effectively worthless... Because if that happens, civilization will 'go away', and one of your gold coins will be lucky to get you 1 gallon of gasoline or ethanol... That's a damn severe loss of value...All "Great Modern Civilizations" ALWAYS turned to GOLD to decide "VALUE", whether as a Monetary System, Bartering, Jewelry or IDOLIZING. "VALUE" doesn't have to equate a "DOLLAR". People were "Judged" by their GOLD, the more they had, the Higher their STATUS, typically. 2) The present economic situation is deflationary, and all the 'hope' and 'faith' in the so-called enduring value of gold won't save you when the bottom drops out... Gold is presently overvalued, because people like GlockO are buying in, out of Pavlovian habit... The problem is that the economic indicators point to gold following Oil down - NOT staying at $700-800 fix price, much less climbing higher... The only folks who are predicting 'higher' gold are the True Believers, and it's out of ideological conviction, not market fundimentals I somewhat AGREE with you. GOLD buyers are "Hedging their BETS", that when a Global Economic Collapse happens, GOLD will be used to REBUILD. NO ONE knows how deep this "Crisis" goes because OUR Free Markets aren't allowed to FAIL, naturally, and begin to REBUILD. Government "Bailouts" are encouraging BAD Business Practice, NO Accountability, NO Value! This IS causing the Deflation WE are seeing on things "We DON'T Need". Since "They" are Printing Money, INFLATION will be seen, very soon, on FOOD/ENERGY; "The Things We DO Need." Shipping Problems?? If a Company CAN'T make a PROFIT then THAT Business Disappears, NO BAILOUTS. A FAILURE will turn into a WINNER again, in TIME. The MANIPULATION WE are Witnessing is turning all of US into LOSERS, with NO WAY OUT; NO VOICE IN ANYTHING. Our Founding Fathers did NOT even TRUST Themselves, and now, WE are supposed to TRUST OUR Representatives will "Fix" this??? It may not always seem FAIR to some, but A FREE MARKET WILL ALWAYS WIN. |
|
Do not look to history to try to get an idea of what is going to happen this time. If you do you will be unpleasantly surprised.
Every other time and place that markets and economies have collapsed in the past, most of the people survived and created local economies for trading things that they needed. A pig for two gold teeth. Two cows for a gun. Every other time that it happened the great majority of the people lived on a farm and although they were dirt poor could still scratch out enough food that they could feed themselves and maybe even a passerby. Most people had their own water supply that they could count on. During the great depression most people still lived on farms or had a relative that they could visit that did. Now it is the exact opposite. Most people today have never even seen a farmer. Most people can not feed themselves. When the city water is turned off most people will not even have a safe water supply let alone something to eat. This time there will be no local economies created simply because there will be no time for it to happen. The misery factor will be so extreme and occur almost over night. The average person today does not have enough food in their house to make lunch let alone to feed their family during a long down turn and because of this they are going to quickly panic. Gold and silver during this time will be worthless. Food and guns will be what does have value. Almost all of the people in the main population centers will die within a few weeks with a good percentage of people dieing in the rural areas as well over the next number of months. Trading can not happen when you can not trust anyone including your neighbor. When the dieing stops is when the local economies can begin again. At this point the first thing able to be traded other than food and guns will be gold and silver and it will become the standard currency used from that point on. What do you need today? Food and guns first......Gold and silver second. |
|
Quoted: +1Do not look to history to try to get an idea of what is going to happen this time. If you do you will be unpleasantly surprised. Every other time and place that markets and economies have collapsed in the past, most of the people survived and created local economies for trading things that they needed. A pig for two gold teeth. Two cows for a gun. Every other time that it happened the great majority of the people lived on a farm and although they were dirt poor could still scratch out enough food that they could feed themselves and maybe even a passerby. Most people had their own water supply that they could count on. During the great depression most people still lived on farms or had a relative that they could visit that did. Now it is the exact opposite. Most people today have never even seen a farmer. Most people can not feed themselves. When the city water is turned off most people will not even have a safe water supply let alone something to eat. This time there will be no local economies created simply because there will be no time for it to happen. The misery factor will be so extreme and occur almost over night. The average person today does not have enough food in their house to make lunch let alone to feed their family during a long down turn and because of this they are going to quickly panic. Gold and silver during this time will be worthless. Food and guns will be what does have value. Almost all of the people in the main population centers will die within a few weeks with a good percentage of people dieing in the rural areas as well over the next number of months. Trading can not happen when you can not trust anyone including your neighbor. When the dieing stops is when the local economies can begin again. At this point the first thing able to be traded other than food and guns will be gold and silver and it will become the standard currency used from that point on. What do you need today? Food and guns first......Gold and silver second. |