Posted: 11/25/2009 3:45:59 PM EDT
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From Wiki...
"Söze's past is unknown, but the story told by Verbal Kint (Kevin Spacey) has Söze as a low-level Turkish drug dealer beginning his criminal career in his native Turkey. The entity that is Keyser Söze is truly born, however, when rival smugglers working for the Hungarian mob invade his house while he is away, rape his wife and hold his children hostage; when Söze arrives, they kill one of the children to show him their resolve, then threaten to kill his wife and remaining children if he does not surrender his business to them. Rather than give in to their demands, and to prevent his family from having to live with the memory of what has happened, he murders his loved ones and all but one of the Hungarians, whom he spares, knowing that the survivor would tell the mafia what has happened. Söze then goes after the mob, killing dozens of people, including the mobsters' families, friends and even people who owe them money, as well as destroying their homes and businesses. He then goes "underground," never again doing business in person and remaining invisible even to his henchmen, who almost never know for whom they are working. One of the most famous lines from the movie, spoken by Kint, is: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that he didn't exist." This is a paraphrase of a story by Charles Baudelaire.[1] But neither McQuarrie nor Singer realized this at the time, and they "borrowed it from people who were quoting Baudelaire themselves."[2] Söze's ruthlessness is legendary, having enemies and disloyal henchmen brutally murdered, along with everyone they hold dear, for the slightest infractions. Over the years his criminal empire, centered around the drug trade, flourishes, as does his legend; he becomes, as Kint describes during his interrogation, "a spook story that criminals tell their kids at night." However, he does seem to possess a very twisted sense of honor. If someone unknowingly steals from him he will generally offer them the opportunity to redeem themselves by carrying out a high-risk assignment, and if they survive the job they are told their transgression will be forgiven. In the movie, however, Söze makes it a point of personally killing his accomplices during the boat heist. It would seem that the offer of redemption is a hollow one, used solely to entice the offenders into choosing the lesser of two evils (a slim chance of survival versus being killed by Söze outright)." Just watched it for seven hundreth time, and thought that this was THE place to discuss... |
| I finally got my wife to watch that movie for the first time the other day when it was on. In the past I haven't been able to convince her. I made her sit through the whole thing even though she wanted to go out and do some errands. She like it a lot and had lots of questions at the end. I told her starting out that she would need to see it at least twice to understand it :) |
I still think "The Way of the Gun" was better written, and arguably a better story. It just suffered from one flaw...there was no real "good guy" 
This one gave the token good guys in the cops....I think had there been a good guy in TWOTG it would have easily eclipsed The Usual Suspects. (Same guy did both, in case anyone's wondering WTF I'm on about) |
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I wonder why the writers spelled it Keyser. Is that a real Turkish name? I grew up close to Keyser's Ridge, MD. My dad said was originally spelled Kaiser, but were changed during WWI, so as to look less German. Edit Keyser, WV was named after an actual Keyser. |
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Quoted:
I still think "The Way of the Gun" was better written, and arguably a better story. It just suffered from one flaw...there was no real "good guy"
This one gave the token good guys in the cops....I think had there been a good guy in TWOTG it would have easily eclipsed The Usual Suspects. (Same guy did both, in case anyone's wondering WTF I'm on about) That's why it was so great. I don't want all my movies to be filled with bad guys but a movie that breaks conventions is great sometimes. |
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Quoted:
I wonder why the writers spelled it Keyser. Is that a real Turkish name? I grew up close to Keyser's Ridge, MD and Keyser, WV. My dad said both places were originally spelled Kaiser, but were changed during WWI, so as to look less German. Keyser and Kaiser are both from latin, 'caesar'. |
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Pete Postelwaite playing an Indian lawyer. Japanese. Kobayashi is a Japanese name. There's just too many weird holes in the plot for me. Great acting, though. I work with an Indian-born and British-educated electrical engineer. His name is Murasaki. A Japanese name. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I wonder why the writers spelled it Keyser. Is that a real Turkish name? I grew up close to Keyser's Ridge, MD and Keyser, WV. My dad said both places were originally spelled Kaiser, but were changed during WWI, so as to look less German. Keyser and Kaiser are both from latin, 'caesar'. I know, I just thought the Keyser spelling originated in America. Looked it up, though, and it is evident in Germany and other places. |
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Quoted:
I still think "The Way of the Gun" was better written, and arguably a better story. It just suffered from one flaw...there was no real "good guy"
This one gave the token good guys in the cops....I think had there been a good guy in TWOTG it would have easily eclipsed The Usual Suspects. (Same guy did both, in case anyone's wondering WTF I'm on about) That's why it was so great. I don't want all my movies to be filled with bad guys but a movie that breaks conventions is great sometimes. Oh, I agree; I think it was a fantastic film in story, execution, casting, etc. My point was that most people wouldn't get it as they don't have a normal "good guy" to root for... Once you accept that there are no "good guys" in the cast, the story gets sooooooooooooooo much better.... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Pete Postelwaite playing an Indian lawyer. Japanese. Kobayashi is a Japanese name. There's just too many weird holes in the plot for me. Great acting, though. I work with an Indian-born and British-educated electrical engineer. His name is Murasaki. A Japanese name. I've always thought that the character was Japanese because of the name. Where in the movie did it mention that he's Indian? Then again, that's the problem with the movie: all these details are moot because Soze basically made it all up on the fly. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I still think "The Way of the Gun" was better written, and arguably a better story. It just suffered from one flaw...there was no real "good guy" This one gave the token good guys in the cops....I think had there been a good guy in TWOTG it would have easily eclipsed The Usual Suspects. (Same guy did both, in case anyone's wondering WTF I'm on about) That's why it was so great. I don't want all my movies to be filled with bad guys but a movie that breaks conventions is great sometimes. Exactly. |
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Pete Postelwaite playing an Indian lawyer. Japanese. Kobayashi is a Japanese name. There's just too many weird holes in the plot for me. Great acting, though. The "holes" were caused by the fact that all we know of the story was the version "Verbal" was making up for agent Kujan on the spot. We don't know WHAT happened...almost everything he said was a lie. There WAS NO Indian guy with a Japanese name...Kobayashi was a name taken from the bottom of the coffee cup. |
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I don't remember Kobayashi ever being referred to as an Indian, but saw his character as being another device Singer was using to create and reinforce uncertainty in the audiences perception. We assume a person named Kobayashi is Japanese because of the name—it's perfectly logical. When we met him, he speaks with an educated Indian accent and is not purely Japanese (or at all)––-another of Singers challenges to the audience. It adds mystery to the character, complicates the plot and overall develops the atmosphere in highly unpredictable ways. It's Singer creating the strange universe that we find ourselves in with the characters. It complicates our perception while Singer executes a continuous and magnificent illusion.
It's a small thing, but I liked the scene where Soze is pissing on the fire trail that Keaton ignited, presumably as a means of suicide. Almost as to say “I piss on all of your plans and won't allow you to kill yourself without my permission––-that's how much I'm in control of things”. “Then again, that's the problem with the movie: all these details are moot because Soze basically made it all up on the fly. “
True. We're not certain that the history of Soze is a fabrication or true, if the person we think is Soze is actually him, or someone co-opting that identity, someone working for him or what. We're left with nothing––-which is what Soze wants. Kobayashi could have been Soze using Kint as an intermediary and his identity. Singer developed the myth of Soze just as Kint described him as some kind of bogey-man. “...and like that....he was gone” |