[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Knee Issues (running) (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/9/2009 5:09:54 AM EDT
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I recently got back into running and I used to run with a knee brace on at least my right knee (hurt it in high school and it still gives me problems from time to time), anyway, as I said I recently started running. I was using no brace on my right knee which after about a week my knee started to hurt but I kept running. My left knee started hurting because I was compensating for my right knee with my left which caused that knee to hurt.
Basically what I am asking is what do any of you take to help with the aches and pains of knee issues. Do those "Joint Health" supplements help? I have taken Excedrin and alike for the pain and it doesnt seem to help, I only want it for while I am running. Anything will help Thanks (and no its not my running shoes) |
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If the pain is under the kneecap it could be from Chondromalacia patella or “runners knee” you can get this without running though.
Do you do other exercises for your legs? Your quads are what controls your kneecap. You could have an imbalance. Stretching is very important. You have to make sure there is no damage first. Your knees are very important and you can’t afford to be crippled if your athletic. GO TO THE DOCTOR. He may want you to get an mri. |
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Take up biking or swimming...........or plan for your knee surgery.
I did some roofing, tile work, metal fabrication, and then started running. My knees were destroyed. 6 months straight of swelling, tendonitis, pains, creaks, etc. I tried some snake oil, the glucosamine condroitin and took naproxin for about a week as a last resort before seeing a doc. Swelling is gone, most of the pain is gone. I am almost normal again. 
A friend kept running through severe knee pain. Marathon runner...........he had surgery and has a hole in one of the bearing surfaces. No more running for him and a knee replacement is in his future. He is now a mountain biker. |
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If it is the start of Chondromalacia there are exercises mostly weight training to bring the patella back into the right tracking and you will be fine again as long as you do the exercises. I would still see the doctor first to see If it is not another problem. If it is hopefully it’s not too bad.
I got it from biking too much. It took me a year to correct it so my knees don’t hurt anymore. |
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I would MUCH rather bike, as I have a nice Cannondale however I have to pass a PT test coming up so I have been hitting the pavement hard! I stretch every day before and after
I think its just from not running... If it still hurts and does not go away I may go to the doctor but ONLY after I pass the PT tests =) So I just need something that will get me by until then (at the end of this month) |
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<–– long distance runner for 10+ years (not slow either)
I started having knee issues in highschool, and it got worse with the more I ran, obviously. 30 mins before you run, ICE your knee (which ever one hurts) meaning take two icepacks one on the bottom, one on the top. for 10-15 mins, then stretch, for a good 10-15 mins, you can find knee stretches online. After your run, stretch for 10-15mins then ice for 10-15 mins...do this every day you run, or at least 3 times a week (if you run everyday), you get my point... you'll reduce the acid content that your muscles are feeding into your knee and all the byproduct from friction in the knee. |
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<–– long distance runner for 10+ years (not slow either) I started having knee issues in highschool, and it got worse with the more I ran, obviously. 30 mins before you run, ICE your knee (which ever one hurts) meaning take two icepacks one on the bottom, one on the top. for 10-15 mins, then stretch, for a good 10-15 mins, you can find knee stretches online. After your run, stretch for 10-15mins then ice for 10-15 mins...do this every day you run, or at least 3 times a week (if you run everyday), you get my point... you'll reduce the acid content that your muscles are feeding into your knee and all the byproduct from friction in the knee. I will have to try that! Thanks |
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Thanks for all of your guy's advise.
I iced my knees and it helped A LOT however I found something that helped almost instantly it was something that helped with Iliotibial Band Syndrome (ITB) I figured it couldn't hurt and found videos on how to correct this. They said roll on a big foam roller however I didn't or couldn't even find a place where I could purchase a big roller so what I did was took a mag-light flashlight and just simulated the rolling and after about 10 minutes I stood up and I had no knee pain what so ever!!!!! I went for a run the next day (hadn't been able to run for a week before) the pain was so bad it was enough tough to walk fast! However after doing the "rolling" as I call it I had no knee pain what so ever! It was great! |
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<–– long distance runner for 10+ years (not slow either) I started having knee issues in highschool, and it got worse with the more I ran, obviously. 30 mins before you run, ICE your knee (which ever one hurts) meaning take two icepacks one on the bottom, one on the top. for 10-15 mins, then stretch, for a good 10-15 mins, you can find knee stretches online. After your run, stretch for 10-15mins then ice for 10-15 mins...do this every day you run, or at least 3 times a week (if you run everyday), you get my point... you'll reduce the acid content that your muscles are feeding into your knee and all the byproduct from friction in the knee. Do not ever, I mean DO NOT EVER ICE before any sort of exercising. You shrink the tendon and pull blood away from the area, I dont care if you stretch for an hour after icing. You are going to tear muscle and tendon if you do this. That is exactly why you warm up before you do anything to get the blood flow to the area's of needed. This is called vasodialation, a good thing! And the other thing where is this acid in the knee?? if you are talking about lactic acid build up, that has nothing to with any knee issue's. We all have a lactic acid threshold but this doesnt cause any pain or soreness, it deals with your body's ability to create and use ATP and as you hit this "threshold" your body releases more CO2 and it becomes harder for the body to use your protein and ATP. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SORENESS OR PAIN before or after running. To the OP, the roller pin is a great idea find a running specialty store and you will find em or you should be able to find them. Also stretching after is AWESOME! If you feel the need to ice and this will help healing by bringing the muscle and tendons closer together, It actually brings the sarcomeres together which have torn or "popped" during exercise. Bring the ice to the area leave it there, for 15 minutes then take it off for 15 and then back on for 15 repeat for an hour. |
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Ok first, the one thing most of the arfcomers responding got right was that you need to go see your doctor. There are so many things that can be wrong with the knee it would take me hours to list them all, not to mention they all have different precursers to that specific injury.
What part of the knee is bothering you? Based on the location of the pain, it would be much easier to narrow down the specific cause of the problem. It could be something as simple as worn out or not supportive enough running shoes. It could also be as bad as torn meniscus or MCL, ACL, PCL problems. This again leads me to say you need to go see your doctor. Second, this goes out to all the arfcom responders. If you dont have a clear understanding of exercise physiology and biomechanics, please dont give advice to these people about what they should be doing. I dont care if youve been a runner for 50 years, if you dont know shit about shit, you shouldnt be giving these people advice (ive never in all my years heard anything about fucking acid in the knees, freaking ludicrous!) The reason I say this is beacuse a lot of these OPs take your advice as an end and not a means and they could potentially hurt themselves even worse. Personal experience is not enough knowledge to be giving advice, because all people are different. Just because something worked for you, does not mean it will work for someone else. Its one of the reasons only DRs are allowed to diagnose injuries and prescribe potential care. OP, go see your doctor. Find out the issue. If its just a joint disperity, get some more supportive shoes/orthotic devices. If its something worse, comtemplate surgery or a different way to endurance exercise. But please dont listen to some of the assanine recommendations on here. End rant. 
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Please go see your doctor.
if your doctor is not running friendly (a lot of docs aren't) stop by your running store or contact a local club for recommendations. Some medical professionals simply tell folks to stop performing the activity that is causing the pain and that is not a solution. Most athletes get better results from Docs who are physically active and ideally participate in the same sport. Monk. ETA.. Check your everyday shoes. I had shin splints when running shoes were brand new but the soles of my boots had worn down. You spend a lot more time in your everyday shoes than your running shoes |
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run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... 
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Quoted: Quoted: run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. |
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Do not ever, I mean DO NOT EVER ICE before any sort of exercising. You shrink the tendon and pull blood away from the area, I dont care if you stretch for an hour after icing. You are going to tear muscle and tendon if you do this. That is exactly why you warm up before you do anything to get the blood flow to the area's of needed. This is called vasodialation, a good thing! think he meant before you warm up not ice it and then run on it (at least that's how I understood it) |
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run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. Are you a Orthopedist or Podiatrist? How do you know what is the cause of his issues? If his knee issues are based on biomechanical problems and over pronation in his gait then running barefoot would cause more problems not correct them. Again, i need to reiterate, if you arent qualified to diagnose people you should not be giving advice. Reading about these issues does not make you an expert. Running and figuring out these issues on your own does not make you an expert, because everyone works differently. No one at all should be giving diagnosis being that this is an online forum and youre reading about his problems and not actually looking at them. The best and only advice to the OP should be see your DR. if he isnt specialized enough, go see a sports physician or podiatrist. But in no way or form should he be listening to any of this non-sense. Most of the advice on here will more than likely hurt him further. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. Are you a Orthopedist or Podiatrist? How do you know what is the cause of his issues? If his knee issues are based on biomechanical problems and over pronation in his gait then running barefoot would cause more problems not correct them. Again, i need to reiterate, if you arent qualified to diagnose people you should not be giving advice. Reading about these issues does not make you an expert. Running and figuring out these issues on your own does not make you an expert, because everyone works differently. No one at all should be giving diagnosis being that this is an online forum and youre reading about his problems and not actually looking at them. The best and only advice to the OP should be see your DR. if he isnt specialized enough, go see a sports physician or podiatrist. But in no way or form should he be listening to any of this non-sense. Most of the advice on here will more than likely hurt him further. I don't have to be a doctor to posit what might alleviate his pain any more than I have to be one to teach someone to perform a safe deadlift. You're in no stronger a position to suggest what won't work considering how much research and how many orthopedists, podiatrists, and sports-medicine specialists, in fact, support combining the "pose" method with minimalistic foot support. |
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run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. Are you a Orthopedist or Podiatrist? How do you know what is the cause of his issues? If his knee issues are based on biomechanical problems and over pronation in his gait then running barefoot would cause more problems not correct them. Again, i need to reiterate, if you arent qualified to diagnose people you should not be giving advice. Reading about these issues does not make you an expert. Running and figuring out these issues on your own does not make you an expert, because everyone works differently. No one at all should be giving diagnosis being that this is an online forum and youre reading about his problems and not actually looking at them. The best and only advice to the OP should be see your DR. if he isnt specialized enough, go see a sports physician or podiatrist. But in no way or form should he be listening to any of this non-sense. Most of the advice on here will more than likely hurt him further. I don't have to be a doctor to posit what might alleviate his pain any more than I have to be one to teach someone to perform a safe deadlift. You're in no stronger a position to suggest what won't work considering how much research and how many orthopedists, podiatrists, and sports-medicine specialists, in fact, support combining the "pose" method with minimalistic foot support. Id like to see documentation as to how many of those so called experts that do endorse it arent on the cut. If you knew anything at all about what youre talking about, youd know that the pose method talks about changing your gait or how you run from heel striking to midfoot/forefoot running. Doing that is easier said than done. Humans run the way they are built for a reason, because its what is comfortable and most efficient for that specific person. Everyone is different. It would be like trying to get a male to give birth...not everyone can perform the same genetically. And changing a persons stride does nothing to change the ammount of injuries they run into, it just changes the ones they may deal with. If you were in the community of orthopedists, podiatrists, and specialists, you so speak of...along with the higher learning comunity as I am, you would know that the majority think this is a crock of shit, and dont endorse it. Its easy to sit in a chair and cast out google diahrea, but I have no doubt in my mind that if your ass was on the line to cover your advice, you would think much harder and longer before you spewed. |
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run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. Are you a Orthopedist or Podiatrist? How do you know what is the cause of his issues? If his knee issues are based on biomechanical problems and over pronation in his gait then running barefoot would cause more problems not correct them. Again, i need to reiterate, if you arent qualified to diagnose people you should not be giving advice. Reading about these issues does not make you an expert. Running and figuring out these issues on your own does not make you an expert, because everyone works differently. No one at all should be giving diagnosis being that this is an online forum and youre reading about his problems and not actually looking at them. The best and only advice to the OP should be see your DR. if he isnt specialized enough, go see a sports physician or podiatrist. But in no way or form should he be listening to any of this non-sense. Most of the advice on here will more than likely hurt him further. I don't have to be a doctor to posit what might alleviate his pain any more than I have to be one to teach someone to perform a safe deadlift. You're in no stronger a position to suggest what won't work considering how much research and how many orthopedists, podiatrists, and sports-medicine specialists, in fact, support combining the "pose" method with minimalistic foot support. Id like to see documentation as to how many of those so called experts that do endorse it arent on the cut. If you knew anything at all about what youre talking about, youd know that the pose method talks about changing your gait or how you run from heel striking to midfoot/forefoot running. Doing that is easier said than done. Humans run the way they are built for a reason, because its what is comfortable and most efficient for that specific person. Everyone is different. It would be like trying to get a male to give birth...not everyone can perform the same genetically. And changing a persons stride does nothing to change the ammount of injuries they run into, it just changes the ones they may deal with. If you were in the community of orthopedists, podiatrists, and specialists, you so speak of...along with the higher learning comunity as I am, you would know that the majority think this is a crock of shit, and dont endorse it. Its easy to sit in a chair and cast out google diahrea, but I have no doubt in my mind that if your ass was on the line to cover your advice, you would think much harder and longer before you spewed. Perhaps somewhere in that "higher learning community" you were taught effective communication skills? You need to check your fire. |
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run barefoot or at least research the pose method Running barefoot will exacerbate a biomechanical problem in the knee. Do not do this until you figure out what the problem is. Seriously people, if you dont know what youre talking about, dont give advice... There's nothing wrong with his advice. Pose running, barefoot or otherwise, corrects whatever led to the problem and allows it to heal in the context of proper training. Are you a Orthopedist or Podiatrist? How do you know what is the cause of his issues? If his knee issues are based on biomechanical problems and over pronation in his gait then running barefoot would cause more problems not correct them. Again, i need to reiterate, if you arent qualified to diagnose people you should not be giving advice. Reading about these issues does not make you an expert. Running and figuring out these issues on your own does not make you an expert, because everyone works differently. No one at all should be giving diagnosis being that this is an online forum and youre reading about his problems and not actually looking at them. The best and only advice to the OP should be see your DR. if he isnt specialized enough, go see a sports physician or podiatrist. But in no way or form should he be listening to any of this non-sense. Most of the advice on here will more than likely hurt him further. I don't have to be a doctor to posit what might alleviate his pain any more than I have to be one to teach someone to perform a safe deadlift. You're in no stronger a position to suggest what won't work considering how much research and how many orthopedists, podiatrists, and sports-medicine specialists, in fact, support combining the "pose" method with minimalistic foot support. Id like to see documentation as to how many of those so called experts that do endorse it arent on the cut. If you knew anything at all about what youre talking about, youd know that the pose method talks about changing your gait or how you run from heel striking to midfoot/forefoot running. Doing that is easier said than done. Humans run the way they are built for a reason, because its what is comfortable and most efficient for that specific person. Everyone is different. It would be like trying to get a male to give birth...not everyone can perform the same genetically. And changing a persons stride does nothing to change the ammount of injuries they run into, it just changes the ones they may deal with. If you were in the community of orthopedists, podiatrists, and specialists, you so speak of...along with the higher learning comunity as I am, you would know that the majority think this is a crock of shit, and dont endorse it. Its easy to sit in a chair and cast out google diahrea, but I have no doubt in my mind that if your ass was on the line to cover your advice, you would think much harder and longer before you spewed. Perhaps somewhere in that "higher learning community" you were taught effective communication skills? You need to check your fire. How did I not communicate well? I thought i got my point across pretty well. Giving advice to a person youve never seen in your life based on a question they asked, and some off the wall, unused practice is rediculous. There is a reason any type of medical personel who diagnose folks spend years in school and do that sort of thing in person. accountability and responsibility...get a clue. And theres a reason that the pose method went straight to book and has never been in any of the ciriculum at any recognized university or college. Dr Romanov realized that even though no one accepted his method of thought, that he could make money selling it to all you sheeple. Yeah he can fix elite runners marathon times and their training adapatations, but the only way Ill be impressed with it is if he can fix a 250 lb man new to running with chronic knee pain. And yes im familiar with his method, and hes yet to do that. |
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i saw a renowned podiatrist in the atlanta area (perry julien) for a bout of plantar faciitus i asked him about running barefoot and he told me that it was a terrible idea and absolutely the worst thing unless i wanted to ruin my feet And hicap brings up another point. Even though the plantar facia issue is something different than the knee, they are related to the same movement of over-pronation. Dont you think that podiatrists/orthopedists/specialists would be using the pose technique if it were something that worked? I know a lot, and not one of them does... |
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Humans run the way they are built for a reason, because its what is comfortable and most efficient for that specific person. Humans have to be taught to pick up heavy objects without injuring themselves. Why is the act of running any different? Someone doesn't need instruction to pick up boxes or run across a parking lot, but if you're going to be running for miles or lifting heavy loads, there's definitely some learning to be done to avoid carelessness and injury. Additionally, scratch the commercialized idea of "Pose" from your mind and just get that anyone whose run track and field in the last 50 years has done so with a midfoot strike. It's not pseudoscience; it's basic technique. |
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Humans run the way they are built for a reason, because its what is comfortable and most efficient for that specific person. Humans have to be taught to pick up heavy objects without injuring themselves. Why is the act of running any different? Someone doesn't need instruction to pick up boxes or run across a parking lot, but if you're going to be running for miles or lifting heavy loads, there's definitely some learning to be done to avoid carelessness and injury. Additionally, scratch the commercialized idea of "Pose" from your mind and just get that anyone whose run track and field in the last 50 years has done so with a midfoot strike. It's not pseudoscience; it's basic technique. Ok now i know you have no idea about what biomechanics and basic kinesiology are, specifically about the lower limb and running. Lifting heavy weghts does not require any different movement just good technique and support. Running on your midfoot/forefoot completely changes the biomechanic and efficiency of the movement compared to that of heel striking. If we were meant to forefoot run we wouldnt have an ankle. I will state again, it is extremely hard to change what youve been doing since you were young. If someone has always run as a heel striker, most likely its what they should continue to do. And the reason track and field athletes run like that, is because of the distances they compete and train at. Plus most of them for the most part are high caliber athletes with no biomechanical problems and free from pre existing injury...not just your average joe. You completely contradict yourself. Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems. You still bring no convincing evidence to the table, but the arguement shouldnt be about whether or not the pose method works...it should be that you shouldnt be giving advice to people about stuff you have no clue about. The fact you relate lifting to running proves that. |
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Jesus christ smarty-pants, I'm just relating innateness between two movements and how both require training. OK, just out of curiosity...whats your background in? What type of certifications do you have? The whole reason I brought this up was not to dispute the validity of the pose technique and forefoot/midfoot running. It was because those of you who believe in it, and know just enough to be dangerous start recommending it to all those who sound like they have similar problems. You continuously change the arguement from whether or not the pose technique works (yeah, for some it does) from what the focus should really be on, which is the fact that most on here...especially yourself should not be giving advice about things they know nothing about. The problem with the recommendation, and if you were in the field of sports science you would know, that everyone is different. Sending a 200lb man with extremely flat feet, and extreme valgus in the knees out to run barefoot with no instruction that he needs to change the way he runs would almost surely ruin him for life from running. Im not debating the recommendation, im debating the knowledge and background of most on here, because they arent the ones being held accountable for potential injuries they are causing with assinine advice. |
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Jesus christ smarty-pants, I'm just relating innateness between two movements and how both require training. OK, just out of curiosity...whats your background in? What type of certifications do you have? The whole reason I brought this up was not to dispute the validity of the pose technique and forefoot/midfoot running. It was because those of you who believe in it, and know just enough to be dangerous start recommending it to all those who sound like they have similar problems. You continuously change the arguement from whether or not the pose technique works (yeah, for some it does) from what the focus should really be on, which is the fact that most on here...especially yourself should not be giving advice about things they know nothing about. The problem with the recommendation, and if you were in the field of sports science you would know, that everyone is different. Sending a 200lb man with extremely flat feet, and extreme valgus in the knees out to run barefoot with no instruction that he needs to change the way he runs would almost surely ruin him for life from running. Im not debating the recommendation, im debating the knowledge and background of most on here, because they arent the ones being held accountable for potential injuries they are causing with assinine advice. I'm not trying to dodge any arguments or change positions. My position just keeps getting attacked from different angles and I don't keep up very well. My certifications are in emergency medicine. My background is in Olympic weightlifting and law enforcement. Alas... I'm so overwhelmed by your superior run-on retorts. Take this Moderator badge, my burden, and run with it. Go forth and show everyone what it is they're doing wrong. OP, I'm sorry about your thread. |
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I'm not trying to dodge any arguments or change positions. My position just keeps getting attacked from different angles and I don't keep up very well. My certifications are in emergency medicine. My background is in Olympic weightlifting and law enforcement. Alas... I'm so overwhelmed by your superior run-on retorts. Take this Moderator badge, my burden, and run with it. Go forth and show everyone what it is they're doing wrong. So do you truely believe that this advice should be followed by the OP? With your experience in emergency medicine, would you advise someone to do something without actually seeing the problem for yourself? (this should be pretty self explanitory) Go ahead and insult if you must, but the only thing that proves is that you youve run out of valid points. Im not trying to tell everyone on here that theyre all wrong...just that they should maybe think first before giving advice to someone reaching out, and that just maybe if they arent sure to keep it to themselves, so as not to cause any further damage. Damage they should be liable for but arent because of the venue. |
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... Go ahead and insult if you must, but the only thing that proves is that you youve run out of valid points. I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as I can tell, you were pretty generous with the insults yourself, when you started posting in this thread. 
More on-topic, I've got bad knees - had the surgery, and was told to stop running. The reason I damaged my knees quite a bit is that I got injured them (tore the meniscus), but KEPT running for another 18 months or so, before seeing a doctor. Had I seen the doctor early on, the surgery would have been much more benign and I could still be running today. but because I waited to get it looked at, the damage was much more severe. So, if you are experiencing pain and problems NOW, I would not delay seeing a doctor. |
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... Go ahead and insult if you must, but the only thing that proves is that you youve run out of valid points. I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as I can tell, you were pretty generous with the insults yourself, when you started posting in this thread.
More on-topic, I've got bad knees - had the surgery, and was told to stop running. The reason I damaged my knees quite a bit is that I got injured them (tore the meniscus), but KEPT running for another 18 months or so, before seeing a doctor. Had I seen the doctor early on, the surgery would have been much more benign and I could still be running today. but because I waited to get it looked at, the damage was much more severe. So, if you are experiencing pain and problems NOW, I would not delay seeing a doctor. Not once did I pick someone out and find something to insult. All my negative comments were made to the masses... |
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems. What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. |
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems.
What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. The current best American Marathoner is a forefoot striker. Not to mention they wear shoes that weigh 7oz+- |
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Now now children, lets not argue!
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<–– long distance runner for 10+ years (not slow either) I started having knee issues in highschool, and it got worse with the more I ran, obviously. 30 mins before you run, ICE your knee (which ever one hurts) meaning take two icepacks one on the bottom, one on the top. for 10-15 mins, then stretch, for a good 10-15 mins, you can find knee stretches online. After your run, stretch for 10-15mins then ice for 10-15 mins...do this every day you run, or at least 3 times a week (if you run everyday), you get my point... you'll reduce the acid content that your muscles are feeding into your knee and all the byproduct from friction in the knee. Do not ever, I mean DO NOT EVER ICE before any sort of exercising. You shrink the tendon and pull blood away from the area, I dont care if you stretch for an hour after icing. You are going to tear muscle and tendon if you do this. That is exactly why you warm up before you do anything to get the blood flow to the area's of needed. This is called vasodialation, a good thing! And the other thing where is this acid in the knee?? if you are talking about lactic acid build up, that has nothing to with any knee issue's. We all have a lactic acid threshold but this doesnt cause any pain or soreness, it deals with your body's ability to create and use ATP and as you hit this "threshold" your body releases more CO2 and it becomes harder for the body to use your protein and ATP. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SORENESS OR PAIN before or after running. To the OP, the roller pin is a great idea find a running specialty store and you will find em or you should be able to find them. Also stretching after is AWESOME! If you feel the need to ice and this will help healing by bringing the muscle and tendons closer together, It actually brings the sarcomeres together which have torn or "popped" during exercise. Bring the ice to the area leave it there, for 15 minutes then take it off for 15 and then back on for 15 repeat for an hour. I never iced my knees before a workout, I am not that stupid! I just iced them after I cooled down, or while I was watching TV and it was only for about 15 minutes on etc... This was a good thing because it reduced some swelling I had in my knees... However it did not stop the pain. Quoted:
Ok first, the one thing most of the arfcomers responding got right was that you need to go see your doctor. There are so many things that can be wrong with the knee it would take me hours to list them all, not to mention they all have different precursers to that specific injury. What part of the knee is bothering you? Based on the location of the pain, it would be much easier to narrow down the specific cause of the problem. It could be something as simple as worn out or not supportive enough running shoes. It could also be as bad as torn meniscus or MCL, ACL, PCL problems. This again leads me to say you need to go see your doctor. Second, this goes out to all the arfcom responders. If you dont have a clear understanding of exercise physiology and biomechanics, please dont give advice to these people about what they should be doing. I dont care if youve been a runner for 50 years, if you dont know shit about shit, you shouldnt be giving these people advice (ive never in all my years heard anything about fucking acid in the knees, freaking ludicrous!) The reason I say this is beacuse a lot of these OPs take your advice as an end and not a means and they could potentially hurt themselves even worse. Personal experience is not enough knowledge to be giving advice, because all people are different. Just because something worked for you, does not mean it will work for someone else. Its one of the reasons only DRs are allowed to diagnose injuries and prescribe potential care. OP, go see your doctor. Find out the issue. If its just a joint disperity, get some more supportive shoes/orthotic devices. If its something worse, comtemplate surgery or a different way to endurance exercise. But please dont listen to some of the assanine recommendations on here. End rant. It was more of the front part of the knee and lower part of the knee (sometimes the side) but after finding out the "rolling" technique and doing that for a short while after my knee pain was completely gone. I spoke with a doctor and they said that area can become tight which can cause slight discomfort to strong knee pain. I told them what I did with the "rolling" technique and they said that was good because I am loosing the muscles basically massaging the Iliotibial Band which became tight. However since doing that, Also doing that before and after a run I have yet to have that knee pain back again! So I think I figured it out... I am not one that likes to go to the doctor (never have) so I always try to figure things out on my own first. If that doesn't work I tend to go. Thanks for all the concern that people had! |
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... Go ahead and insult if you must, but the only thing that proves is that you youve run out of valid points. I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as I can tell, you were pretty generous with the insults yourself, when you started posting in this thread.
More on-topic, I've got bad knees - had the surgery, and was told to stop running. The reason I damaged my knees quite a bit is that I got injured them (tore the meniscus), but KEPT running for another 18 months or so, before seeing a doctor. Had I seen the doctor early on, the surgery would have been much more benign and I could still be running today. but because I waited to get it looked at, the damage was much more severe. So, if you are experiencing pain and problems NOW, I would not delay seeing a doctor. Not once did I pick someone out and find something to insult. All my negative comments were made to the masses... Oh - you were only insulting the unwashed, moronic "masses" - who have the audacity to disagree with your englightened and superior opinion. That's all right then. 
So calling people that disagree with your opinion "sheeple" was not meant to be insulting to the people you were disagreeing with in this thread? Okay then. 
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems.
What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. What makes you think youre landing on soft tissue when forefoot/midfoot striking? Basically when you switch from heelstriking to mid/forefoot, you just add a much larger force on the gastroc and achilles into the equation, which in middle aged men is a huge problem because of the type of joint the ankle is and the location of the muscle in relationship to it. Bone in general takes a while to heal, but ive never seen anyone break a bone running, maybe a stress fracture, but thats more from over training. Tearing tendons and soft tissue on the other hand happen all the time, and an evulsion of the achilles takes FOREVER, to heal. So why even put the tress on it if you dont have to? |
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems.
What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. The current best American Marathoner is a forefoot striker. Not to mention they wear shoes that weigh 7oz+- Because hes probably been training forever like that...whats the shoe weight got to do with anything? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems. What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. What makes you think youre landing on soft tissue when forefoot/midfoot striking? Basically when you switch from heelstriking to mid/forefoot, you just add a much larger force on the gastroc and achilles into the equation, which in middle aged men is a huge problem because of the type of joint the ankle is and the location of the muscle in relationship to it. Bone in general takes a while to heal, but ive never seen anyone break a bone running, maybe a stress fracture, but thats more from over training. Tearing tendons and soft tissue on the other hand happen all the time, and an evulsion of the achilles takes FOREVER, to heal. So why even put the tress on it if you dont have to? Perhaps the reason that people injury achilles tendons is because they don't train them? Look at people in the gym, more than likely they have small calf muscles. Just as a person can train to strengthen other tendons through weight training, they can also strengthen their achilles tendon. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems. What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. The current best American Marathoner is a forefoot striker. Not to mention they wear shoes that weigh 7oz+- Because hes probably been training forever like that...whats the shoe weight got to do with anything? Uhh yeah? Anyone who runs 26 miles probably will train for a long time. |
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... Go ahead and insult if you must, but the only thing that proves is that you youve run out of valid points. I don't have a dog in this fight, but as far as I can tell, you were pretty generous with the insults yourself, when you started posting in this thread.
More on-topic, I've got bad knees - had the surgery, and was told to stop running. The reason I damaged my knees quite a bit is that I got injured them (tore the meniscus), but KEPT running for another 18 months or so, before seeing a doctor. Had I seen the doctor early on, the surgery would have been much more benign and I could still be running today. but because I waited to get it looked at, the damage was much more severe. So, if you are experiencing pain and problems NOW, I would not delay seeing a doctor. Not once did I pick someone out and find something to insult. All my negative comments were made to the masses... Oh - you were only insulting the unwashed, moronic "masses" - who have the audacity to disagree with your englightened and superior opinion. That's all right then.
So calling people that disagree with your opinion "sheeple" was not meant to be insulting to the people you were disagreeing with in this thread? Okay then.
Sheeple was a generalized term for those who someone was marketing a specific book to. Nothing more. And the moronic masses you speak of are the ones that in due time on here, unless checked, are going to get some poor guy hurt because they think they know what they are talking about...but in all actuality they are clueless. |
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems.
What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. What makes you think youre landing on soft tissue when forefoot/midfoot striking? Basically when you switch from heelstriking to mid/forefoot, you just add a much larger force on the gastroc and achilles into the equation, which in middle aged men is a huge problem because of the type of joint the ankle is and the location of the muscle in relationship to it. Bone in general takes a while to heal, but ive never seen anyone break a bone running, maybe a stress fracture, but thats more from over training. Tearing tendons and soft tissue on the other hand happen all the time, and an evulsion of the achilles takes FOREVER, to heal. So why even put the tress on it if you dont have to? Perhaps the reason that people injury achilles tendons is because they don't train them? Look at people in the gym, more than likely they have small calf muscles. Just as a person can train to strengthen other tendons through weight training, they can also strengthen their achilles tendon. Wrong. It has nothing to do with the training of the tendon. It has to do with the type of joint the ankle is and how much force is created by the gastrocnemious. Athletes tear and injure their achilles all the time and dont you think they strength train? It has everything to do with the biomechanical forces that are placed on that tendon, along with the way our body is built. |
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Quoted: Most of the track athletes that do run that way are sprinters and mid distance athletes, not long distance runners. Id like to see someone run 26.2 miles on just their forefoot. Hello achilles and calf problems.
What makes you think that someone who trains and runs 26 miles will have achiles and calf problems? As an observer, I would also like to make the point that it seems that heal striking isn't all that successful either. Soft tissue is much more capable of adaptation than bones and joints. The current best American Marathoner is a forefoot striker. Not to mention they wear shoes that weigh 7oz+- Because hes probably been training forever like that...whats the shoe weight got to do with anything? Uhh yeah? Anyone who runs 26 miles probably will train for a long time.
Yeah but the type of training and the way he trains is quite different than the average joe. The elite marathon runner has probably been running one way his entire life. Average joes been a heel striker his whole life. Whos gonna be a better forefoot runner sans the training experience? The guy whos been doing it longer. And switching your gait isnt as easy as changing from a dumbell press to dumbell flies. It takes years of re-training to become efficient and strong enough to train injury free. |
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Quoted: Not correctly I don't. I've met college level football players who approach me after a set of squats to tell me that going parallel will destroy my knees and that the bar is to low, as it needs to rest on my neck. They then tell me what football team they played for and tell me about their degree kinesthetics.Wrong. It has nothing to do with the training of the tendon. It has to do with the type of joint the ankle is and how much force is created by the gastrocnemious. Athletes tear and injure their achilles all the time and dont you think they strength train? It has everything to do with the biomechanical forces that are placed on that tendon, along with the way our body is built. Meanwhile, more and more people continue to have knees wore out from running. A casual runner who conditions his calf and associated tendons stands to have less of a chance blowing out an achilles than the person who pounds the shit out of their knees by running heal-toe. Humans are made to run, we have a big ass tendon there for a reason. |
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Quoted:And switching your gait isnt as easy as changing from a dumbell press to dumbell flies. It takes years of re-training to become efficient and strong enough to train injury free. Bull! I switched two years ago, and it only took 3 weeks before any DOMS went away. I used to avoid running due to knee pain, running down hill at one time was murder, now I finally can enjoy running/sprinting when I get the urge. Again, you are acting as if the achillies tendon is as fragile as glass. |
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Not correctly I don't. I've met college level football players who approach me after a set of squats to tell me that going parallel will destroy my knees and that the bar is to low, as it needs to rest on my neck. They then tell me what football team they played for and tell me about their degree kinesthetics.
Wrong. It has nothing to do with the training of the tendon. It has to do with the type of joint the ankle is and how much force is created by the gastrocnemious. Athletes tear and injure their achilles all the time and dont you think they strength train? It has everything to do with the biomechanical forces that are placed on that tendon, along with the way our body is built. Meanwhile, more and more people continue to have knees wore out from running. A casual runner who conditions his calf and associated tendons stands to have less of a chance blowing out an achilles than the person who pounds the shit out of their knees by running heal-toe. Humans are made to run, we have a big ass tendon there for a reason. Heres the thing. Strength training is way different than running. Relating them to each other, even though they may be in the same degree is incorrect. So are you say that everyone who heel strikes is running wrong? What about every single person who walks? Are we all walking wrong? The thing you should get is that everyone is different. Just because someone does it differently with less problems, does not mean everyone will be able to perform the same movement injury free. Theres really no one way to do something correctly, if you can do it injury free. But just because one person does it, does not make it "the" way. Im not trying to dispell forefoot running, im trying to get people off of trying to change someones gait over some knee pain. There are easier and much less time consuming fixes. |
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Quoted:And switching your gait isnt as easy as changing from a dumbell press to dumbell flies. It takes years of re-training to become efficient and strong enough to train injury free.
Bull! I switched two years ago, and it only took 3 weeks before any DOMS went away. I used to avoid running due to knee pain, running down hill at one time was murder, now I finally can enjoy running/sprinting when I get the urge. Again, you are acting as if the achillies tendon is as fragile as glass. You switched from heel striking to forefoot in 3 weeks? Or thats how long it took for your delayed onset muscle soreness to go away? Have you had any injuries since then? And just so you kow its impossible to run anything but heel striking downhill. How far do you run when you do? (maybe your knee pain is associated with your squats , sorry cheap shot)
Its not fragile, but id much rather put the stress of gravity and my bodyweght (which can be up to 6 times your bodyweight when running) on a bone than a tendon. And the only reason youre seeing so many injuries to the knees is because more people run heel/toe. I still see tons of injuries to forefoot runners. Just becase they run different, it does not make them immune. |
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smithc6, I would like you to share your certifications (or licensure... yeah right). The body that granted cert would also be interesting, but that's optional.
My certifications, for instance, are granted by the AZ Dept. of Health Services and a national registry for my specialty. To recertify every two years, I am required to attend+pass a minimum of 72 hours of CMEs + a minimum of X hours of documented patient care. |
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smithc6, I would like you to share your certifications (or licensure... yeah right). My undergrad is from Oregon State in Exercise Science and option in Biomechanics. Im currently a few terms away from getting my masters in biomech/kinease with a focus on the lower limb. Im ACSM certified and have been gainfully employed at a running specialty store for over 5 years now. Not that any of that matters, but you did ask. ETA: Since you edited yours, I will mine. Certs are great and everything but the thing that matters is the content. If I had a question about emergency med, youd totally be the person to ask. Youre tha man in that category. And in no way am i claiming to be the end all when it comes to running, but it is somthing ive studied for the last 7 years, intensely. I mostly wanted to make the point that to many people on here give really bad advice, and on subjects they arent qualified to give advice at that. To be honest most of these questions should be directed to the DRs and prfoessionals of our society, because anyone with half a brain and heartbeat thinks they can figure stuff out thats happening with them. I see it daily, and its a scary thought of untrained individuals giving advice, when they sit in a computer chair and arfcom/wiki all day long. |