Posted: 12/31/2005 3:17:51 PM EDT
| I haven't had any luck finding a training location in central Oklahoma. Anyone know of any possible locations in Oklahoma? Thx |
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Krav Magna is shit, or at least 98% of it is. To be a Krav Magna instructor all you have to do is a week of training and pay a big ass fee. I would suggest that you find a good Muay Thai or Kyokushin Karate gym to learn stand up and then a Judo or Brazillian Jiu Jitsu school to learn the ground. Krav Magna won't do shit for you. |
I'm not gonna go so far as calling it "shit", but... Unfortunately, the experience that I have had with it, would force me to render my opinion in a manner that would lead people away from KM. What it appears is that, KM started as a good art, in its homeland; but has become a marketing program here in the states. Personally, the mother ship organization approached my coach and myself about becoming part of their organization. Or should I say, "instructors" in their organization... All we had to do was pay, and attend a week long seminar; then we would be senior level KM instuctors... WTF? Never mind that we teach BJJ, Muay Thai, and kali... |
Well the fact that anyone can become a KM instructor by a fee and a seminar makes it shit in my eyes. I studied Kyokushin Karate for 8 years and it took a lot to learn the basics and be at a level that could teach others. I just don't see an art that can teach "instructors" in a week to be worth a damn. If this was such a great system the US would be using it. And I would direct the OP to find a school like yours, that would be 100% better than KM. Muay Thai for stand up, BJJ for the ground, and Kali for weapons and you are pretty well rounded. |
| Heh, it looks like it doesn't matter. Nothing in the OKC area anyway. How 'bout Aikido? My 14yr old son is bugging me to let him start training.hinking.gif |
I don't practice any martial art but I've done some research into what's available locally. Windsong dojo windsongdojo.com offers Aikido as well as Muso Jikiden Eishin-Ryu Iaido which is the art of Japanese sword drawing. Iaido rank in this school is from Japan so it's the real deal. Very cool and very hard to find authentic training in this art. Also, Lovato BJJ has a good reputation if he's interested in ground fighting. You probably know there are tons of Karate and Tae Kwon Do schools around. My particular interest is the Chinese Martial Arts but many of the local instructors seem to keep a low profile. I don't know if there is a school here but I was talking to a guy yesterday and he told me about a system that operated under the umbrella term "Progressive Fighting Arts". It's a combination of boxing, Tai boxing, grappling, submission fighting, jeet kun do, and kali. He said there was a school in Tulsa and he thought there might be one here in OKC as well but I haven't really looked yet. Good luck in your search and hopefully it will be a good experience for your son. |
Aikido has the problem of not training with fully resisting opponents. It's not good for self defense, but some of the techniques are good for Law Enforcement Control and Restraint type situations. I would find a Judo club for your 14yo son. Judo has Self Defense application and is a great sport. There are even Judo scholarships for college and Judo is an Olympic Sport. There are a lot of small Judo tournaments and the AAU has a Judo program. Judo has Throws, Pins, Chokes, and Submissions. It's good stuff and your boy would love it once he tries it. Tell him that Steven Segal stuff is Bull Shit and Heilo Gracie got his elbow broke by a Judoka. 
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I would also add that Windsong also offers Judo. 
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Krap Maga is a multi-level marketing scam... nothing more! If you cant find an instructor, you can go to a weekend seminar and for a few grand, bada-bing... your an instructor. The only thing more pathetic than Krap Maga out there is Tia Chi, Kung Fu, and Aikido. This has ALL been discussed here before. You should go to bullshido.com and look at the videos. |
this is bs. I'm currently in the instructor program and It will take me at least 1 year to get senior level KM instructor and that's if I train 10 days full time every month for a year, on top of my regular training. KM is a great well rounded self defense system for law enforcement and civilians. |
Some of the BJJ students I roll with ARE KM instructors, it is a multi-level marketing program... and I'm glad you can make money with it. It's great for women, but it's not taught to an LE in my area. In fact, in Austin, all the top 40 radio stations advertise it and schools are opening all the time. I mean, I understand any training is better than nothing, but I've had the technigues demonstrated, and I'll stick to what works; BJJ/MT, and common sense. I'm not buying into it... sorry. |
Not to be sexist, but the idea of a woman winning a scrap is pretty useless. If it's rape motivated, there are some pretty efective things that a woman can work from the gaurd if the attacker is more interested in penetration than fighting, and in that case BJJ would be better for women. The Krap Maga that I've seen is just that... i've never seen any of it used effectively, and from what I've seen it's all based on, 'hold me here and you stand there.' Full force is the only way you are going to have the muscle memmory. I've hip thrown 300 lb men down, landed with a knee on their stomache, and went for an armbar in training with them trying to resist. I've drilled one technigue or another at full force untill I had to crawl to the bathroom and puke. BJJ doesnt teach shadowboxing or hypothetical scenarios, it's actually drilled into you... and the stand up, MT kickboxing is taught as close to full force as common sense would allow. If you think Krap Maga is going to bring you home safely, go find a Brazilian and ask if you can spar with him. I'll put $20 on it you get choked out. |
Hey exocet you squirrely bastard, don’t post garbage like this in a different thread adding nothing to the conversation because you don’t like what I say in THIS THREAD!!! If you have noting to say to my comments above, dont attack me in a different forum, my guess is it’s probably against the rules. Do yourself a favor and look up 'multi-level marketing', or 'MLM' companies. KRAV MAGA IS A MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING PROGRAM, IT'S LIKE PRE-PAID LEGAL!!! What I said must have hit pretty close to home for you to start an ad-hominem attack in another thread? |
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but Scott and Brett McQueen of ITTS give their strong endorsement to Krav due to it's simplicity and practicality. Edited to add: If you can find a Krav class, give it a try and decide for yourself if it meets your expectations. |
And we care becuase why?  |
Maybe because Scott and Brett's opinions and experiences carry more weight than some anonymous pogues posting on the internet? 
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Conversely, why should anyone care what you endorse? Your posts indicate that you have a limited knowledge of Krav, how are you qualifed to comment on the effectiveness of the system? I don't know where Krav has been proven; outside of the ring, where has BJJ or Muay Thai been proven? I'm sure there are instances where all three have been used to good effect in non-permissive engagements. |
Please avoid ad-hominem attacks… they will serve you no point. This isn’t about me; it is about Krap Maga being a multi-level marketing program. There are schools popping up all over the place, just like there are new people every day trying top sell you pre-paid legal (not that I am saying having a legal plan is a bad idea, I think the service is great). How am I qualified to comment on the effectiveness of the system? Well, who says that I am qualified to tell you which car to buy, same difference? I will say, however, that a couple of Krav Maga instructors that I have met in the Austin area told me how they got certified, and admit that BJJ is superb and that it is about nothing more than way to make a living. In one seminar, I submitted one pretty effortlessly… but then there is always the ‘but it’s to deadly to use in sparring, etc”, man I’m so sick of hearing that. I can tell you from speaking with several MMA fighters that are friends of mine that in Thailand, and Brazil, that their arts are used with lethal consequences there. It’s the reason I have said all along that they work so well in the ring. I think the fact that you don’t know where it has been proven says a lot. Again, it appears to be little more than a multi-level marketing scheme. |
So basically you're telling us that you're not really personally qualified to comment on the effectiveness of the system.
The fact that I don't know where it has been proven says only that I don't have the inclination to actually go and research where it might have been used to success. The fact that you're basing your argument on the superiority of BJJ and Muay Thai over Krav on conjecture, submitting an opponent in an controlled environment and unsubstantiated claims speaks volumes. |
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Fine... you win; I'm tired of talking about fighting. I'll study what works; a mix of Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Not because I want to be on spike TV, those guys are incredible athletes. However, they have moved away from what the Brazilians train for Vale Tudo, Portuguese for 'anything goes', it's the REAL ultimate fighting challenge; it’s where things get proven. This website has so many wondrous threads that are informative, and shame on me for getting stuck in a, nuh-uh, uh-huh thread. I would, in closing, like to offer that it is not logical to argue a point if you have not the inclination to actually go and research your point. Yet calling someone who has taken the time, lost blood, been injured, and done what you claim you have no inclination for is a bit moronic. If you enjoy Krap Maga, have fun with it... as far as I am concerned, this topic is over, so I go in peace. |
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Krav Maga is the official combat system from the Israeli Defense Forces. Also it is used in various law enforcement and military units all over the world: US, Europe, south america... It became widely available to civilians for the last 15/20 years since before it was classified by the Israel gvt. |
My original point was that two highly respected indivduals in the weapons and tactics training community who have BTDT stongly endorse the Krav system, and that anyone interested should give Krav a try to see if it meets their needs. Nothing more, nothing less. Feeling the need to challenge that assertion would be closer to the defintion of moronic. As I said, I don't have a dog in this fight, but based on ITTS endorsement of Krav, I would be more inclined to at least give it a chance before I dismissed the system in it's entirety. |
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I just started Krav Maga in the San Francisco East Bay. I do not understand about the comments about pay money and in one week become an instructor. From what I understand from my instructors is that it is a 4 to 6 week course 6 days a week 8 to 10 hour days. Unless you have alot of time to dedicate it may take years. This is after you have become a Black Belt. Maybe the keyboard warriors should try Krav Maga instead of Krap Maga. The school I am attending has a combined martial arts. Strikes, grappling, etc... I don't know anything about martial arts but so far it seems to be pretty vicious. I don't understand the comment that Krav is to fight someone just standing there, so far in my limited experience it is very dynamic? I have done a search and have not seen posts that this has been talked about extensively, I only looked back three months. I have been fortunate to work out with a few officers in class. Anyways... Take it easy. Dan |
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My limited experience with Martial Arts has been to train in Shotokan karate and Krav Maga. Of the 2, I prefer Krav. Reason being, karate seemed to focus more on the Kata's (forms) than actually "using" the self defense techniques we were taught. Maybe its the dojo I attended. Krav seems to use simpler techniques, and we are taught "hands on". We are shown a technique, and then we immediately practise the technique with the other students in the class. We have done defense against choke holds, defense against bear hugs, and right now we are doing defense against take downs, and ground fighting. If it is bs, who knows. But it is nice to know someway to defend yourself, rather than knowing nothing at all. Of those who say that Krav is total BS, what are you basing your decisions on? Have you taken a Krav class? Have you taken other types of Martial arts? I know for a fact that there are different "schools" ( read business entities) that teach Krav. The school I attend is affiliated with www.kravmaga.com These are just my opinions, take them for what they are worth. |
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Opey, second that. My first day students and instructors were encouraging me to join them on the mat. No form, no stances, no egos, and no attitudes. Learn a technique and practice it. Keep it simple. Use what ever works for your body and ability. We just practiced breaking the choke hold and disableing your attacker last week. Last night was how to strike properly and judge distance. Bags first then with instructors. I kept on slightly dropping my right before I delivering the "time to go home punch". Instructor would "pop" me up side my head. As a warning, if I keep on dropping my "I like my face" protection my opponent will take me out. Going tonight. My partner might not make it. His calves are real sore from the last two workouts. Dan |
+100,000 Krap Maga posers are more irritating than Segal Fans, Bruce Lee disciples, and the 'I've never lost a fight' TKD jack-holes. 6 months of BJJ and some boxing is all you need, that and some common sense like knowing when to shut up and walk away. |
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I agree with the Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu, but with more than 6 months training. Some boxing? Some boxing is not enough. Boxing is great, teaches disclipline, punching, moving, etc... Need to incorporate street fighting techniques. Practice also defending against kicks, elbows, stick, knife, gun, etc... The Krav school I go to teaches Mixed Martial Arts. Krav, Tae Kwan Do, Kenpo, Boxing, Kick Boxing, Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu, "Fit to Fight" Fitness Classes, Sparring Classes, and Core Strength and Conditioning. Our schools police instructor utilize real life police experiences of what worked, what didn't work, and why. Practice what works. The KM symbol, the open circle around the KM is supposed to signify "open thinking", adapt, if something better comes up, or if find weaknesses; observe, modify, incorporate, adapt. I am fortunate to attend a real school and not a poser school. I am grateful for the instructors, professional, make the class fun, and learn something everytime I go. I hope I will never have to use it in a street fight... My $0.02 Dan |
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I don't like going to the ground & I don't want to go to the ground BUT we still learn/teach ground fighting in KM because you might end up there so you wanna be able to get the hell out of that situation and get back on your feet. I don't want to fight on the ground and get kick in the face by my opponent's buddies nor rolling on broken glasses in a bar. Street is not a mat. I like BJJ and respect it but I 'll use only what's good for me at that specific time of a fight. Again this is not KM vs whatever other Martial Arts. Pick the one you think is efficient to protect yourself and quit bitching about the others. To each their own. |
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I know 2 Krap Maga instructors; they admit that they do it for the money. It's Tae-Bo, as far as I'm concerned. Fights go to the ground, period... 99% of the time. It is VERY easy to take someone to the ground, no matter their size. A friend, who is probably 6’5” and 275 lbs (who was an offensive line man from the Air-Force academy football team) told me I couldn't take him to the ground, I did it EFFORTLESSLY, 3 times. Each time landing in different variations of side mount or knee on stomach, etc. Striking is great, but it's a LOT better if you’ve got them on the ground where you can sit on them for ground and pound. I can't tell you how many MMA tournaments I've seen where someone wore down in under 90 seconds, letting themselves get taken down by the simplest 8 year-old Judo move. A mix of boxing/Muay Thai/Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and a little common sense is all you need. Krap Maga is for people who think that Steven Segal is a bad-ass; you may as well study Kung Fu… it's a waste of time, it's not hands on, and it's not full-contact. I’ve never seen a fight in the bar, on the street, or a police arrest on video that didn’t go to the ground. Never… |
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GlockandRoll, I guess I should tell the person whose knee I ended up spraining last week will doing a take down drill, the person whose shoulder I ended dislocating while trying to escape from a choke hold, and the person who after tonights class now has a fat lip and will probably have a swollen eye tomorrow because I was going full speed that " it's a waste of time, it's not hands on, and it's not full-contact." Again, I'm just curious if anyone who is bashing Krav has actually taken any classes. Since my first class, every class has covered some aspect of ground fighting, some of the moves have not been very pleasant feeling to have performed on you. Trust me, my right elbow and right shoulder are still hurting from last weeks class |
I don't know how close you are to Tulsa but try this: LX Jiu-Jitsu School of Edmond, Oklahoma Academy: Redline Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Location: 707 Centennial Blvd - Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 Coach: Ty Gay Phone: (405) 341-1175 Webpage: http://www.redlinejiujitsu.com Schedule: kids m-th 6-7 pm / adults m-th 7-9 pm |
then you haven't seen any good fights. |
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I'm new to the forum, and I'd hate to start argueing with people but you've got to be horribly over-weight and out of shape to have tried Krav-Maga and then said it sucks. It teaches you all the principles you need for an instant take down, and keep your enemy down, instead of you spending 9 years learning how to do the monkey dancing - dragon breath stance of the wolves and 3 inch punches of the samurai crap. Israeli SF are most likely the deadliest SF in the world especially in hand to hand combat, Spetsnaz has switched to Krav Maga just recently. Haganah & Krav Maga, combined make you extremely deadly with your hands. To the person who wants to try it, ignore the "Krap Maga" Jackie Chan wanna-be's. Find a fighting center, go there and spectate a class or two, I guarantee you'll laugh at the people talking down Krav. EDIT: Also, to whoever was saying 6 months of BJJ and boxing is enough has got to be kidding me. I've been boxing for almost 6 years now, and I have noticed extreme difference in my fighting style/endurance/power |
Where did you come up with that? My instructor was telling me about the instructor quals and even had some footage of it. Everyone who attended his did not pass. While he was telling me about it, I was thinking how that didn't square with either your post or one similar to it on a different thread. |
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Speaking purely as someone on the outside looking in, the truth is probably somewhere between the groups "Krap" and "Krav". My experience is limited to second-hand knowledge, books, and reading forums like this. I've heard it said that its not so much the system that is being taught, but rather the way it is taught. Detractors here say that Krav has very low barriers to entry and is a no-contact system via training. I believe that due to the commercialization of Krav Maga, there are many, many schools that teach it the "safe" way. In other words, the way that will keep paying customers on the mats and avoid lawsuits. However, there are also likely those that adhere more towards the true nature of the system, and teach it under "harsher" conditions. Krav Maga certainly isn't the only system to suffer from bad teaching and commercialization. When I asked the people I know what I should look for, they said to look for a system that is taught in a way where you get up there and spar against real opponents who are fighting back, not simply a place that will teach you dance steps. |