There may be a reason for his cunty-ness, such as obnoxious city folk cutting across his property to get to the river, or stopping on his bank to take a dump or leave their trash, or just deciding to pull out and camp there without his permission.  I would bet all three have happened at least once to this guy.

Everyone is tolerant of seemingly "innocent" behavior until it happens on their property.

North Georgia Appalachian mountains.

That's why it's good fishing:  It's not open to every Orvis clone who shows up, ignores take limits and size restrictions, and doesn't know how to release a fish without causing harm.  

Here in Oregon, it also includes rivers and streams that you were able to float timber down, even if you had to wait for the waters to rise in the winter.

A lot of mills were built right on the river, and the logs were floated to them rather than hauled by truck.

Log drivers back in those days must have been absolutely crazy!

Attached File


One last note... I think our waterway rights extend to the high water mark, not low water, iirc.

Attached File

I own some land that has 1800 feet on the Dan River. It would never occur to me to yell at someone on the river. I believe the survey shows the bank as the property line. Never really gave it much thought. Mike

Lot's of trout in the mountains, Ted Turner owns a big stretch of river N of here and they zealously keep people away because he has huuuuge trout there.

Man made canals can belong to an adjoining land owner, an HOA, or even the developer who developed the neighborhood.

There is some submerged land in Florida that was severed from state ownership despite having been sovereign, and there is some Spanish land grants that include submerged lands.

We are a hotbed of this type of issue, particularly in and around St Augustine

I am aware of both parties in this dispute. I think fishing guy is legally wrong here, but that doesn't mean the law is right or good. In cases where the law is wrong and bad, I tend to ignore it.

They posted the flint when some big landowner bought both sides for shoal bass fishery. It's kind of a mess. I don't want shot at, so I avoid it.

I fish for smallmouth out of Kayaks religiously...Tournaments and open fishing days all the time.


Never had anyone harass me for fishing their docks.
In fact last summer had a guy on the far side of the lake start yelling at me about something so I paddled over. He asked what I was fishing for and then freaked out telling me the smallies spawn under his deck. He literally told me I HAD to see if I could catch a few underneath his feet, boat and dock...
I did, released them as well and the dude was tickled. Yelled for me to have a great day waving as he walked back up to his house.

Depends on the state.

MT land ownership is only to the high water mark.

CO land ownership extends to riverbed, you can float and fish, but can't anchor.

I pissed off a trout ranch on the Rio Grand River in CO. I caught a fish while floating, but with rapids coming up I needed time to deal with the fish before I went through the rapids. I put my foot down to deal with the fish and some due on a side by side and gun came out of no where. Threw fish back and floated on down.

In MT I'd tell him to fuck off.

Was Deliverence filmed in Georgia? Just saying!

Don't care about state laws, low tide level A ok as far as I'm concerned, unless I'm drowning and need immediate relief.

That's not the case. You can fish right up to the shore, just cannot land on the shore. And do not touch a private dock, as that would be trespassing.  All surface water in MN is considered public property as long as there is public access.

A lot of lake associations have their own BS rules as well as most of those lakes do not have public access and they have their special HOA style rules. And the first 25' of land from shore is controlled by the DNR. They have height and setback rule and laws. Not all lake or rivers are the same, if there is no public access you just need written permission from a lake shore lot to access the lake. And You can only build on 25% of the lot size for lakeshore lots.

I grew up on WBL and learned all about it as my dad still lives on the lake and now my brother and I manage the property. If you want to so much as plant a new tree within 25' of the shore you need to get a permit through the DNR.

https://www.dnr.state.mn.us/waters/watermgmt_section/shoreland/property-owners.html#:~:text=The%20state%20shoreland%20rules%20establish%20that%20all%20structures%20in%20residential,height%20allowed%20on%20your%20property



As noted above, ALL surface water is open for public use as long as there is public access.

There is a slew of youtube videos of fishermen being hassled by folks for fishing docks, canals, etc.. by douchbag homeowners that think they own the world.

The videos of kids getting screamed at for shore fishing in a HOA behind their house always gets me.

There is a video out there of a guy taking golf balls and hitting in their direction pissed me off.

Not the video I was thinking about, but here is a guy getting golf balls lobbed at him.

And our Choo Choo.

Most landowners own land to the middle of roads on their border but you are not trespassing by travelling on that road. Hopefully someone will find that SCOTUS case about navigability that was previously mentioned.

In NH, all streams belong to the state.   You can fish any brook anywhere as long as you remain in the stream (standing or floating) and not on the land.   Land has to be posted every 200' to keep you off the land, either to or from the water.
Some landowners are just dicks.   Some hunters and fishermen are also dicks and brought things on everyone with their poor behavior.

Interesting discussion about navigable waters in this SCOTUS case.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/21/21-454/221232/20220418120921558_Sackett_04.15.2022PDFA_FINAL.pdf

Mostly just waiting to die, they half survive in the mountains, but only a few places have successful reproduction in the wild. Guess I'm half glad they keep stocking them since they're tasty, but isn't the most successful program. Supposedly even if temperature isn't a problem, there isn't enough calcium in the water due the whole clay thing.

There's a youtube channel dealing with motorized bicycles, and the guy has a video where (if my memory isn't off) a woman gets onto him for riding on a dirt road that happens to run behind her backyard.  The woman doesn't want anyone passing behind her place, so she hoses that section of the dirt road down to make it muddy, thinking it will convince people to stop using that road, but it probably makes it more attractive to some people (and makes more noise for her, when they power through the mud).

Crazy people (at least some of them) like to tell other people what they can and cannot do.

From what I've heard, that's how Tennessee Wildlife Resources views it.  Floating through private property is OK, but touching the bank or bottom can be considered trespassing, if the property owner doesn't want you there.

The only road I have ever owned to the middle was a private driveway that part of my land and part of the neighbor's were given to provide an easement for access to a landlocked property. I have never owned to the middle of a public road.

Its actually always been the opposite, at least for me. I have owned to the road, but the town or county has a five or ten foot easement for utilities or maintenance purposes.

How many streams have a low and high tide water level?
Streams are fed by surface runoff and springs, neither of which would result in high or low tides. Around here many "streams" run entirely dry in the summer
Named " Creeks" in my area on the other hand flow year round; which is ironic, given that "creek" is more synonymous to "stream" in volume of water flow  than to "river".
Maybe people in some parts of the country are calling a "river" which flows into the ocean and so has a low or high tide a "stream".

Sounds like something that's ripe for an updating, given the relatively small draft of small pleasure boats, kayaks etc that would make a lot of waterways a "navigable" body of water with no commercial application.

Not surprising.  One guy I worked with is a big bass fisherman (large and smallmouth).  He will hit some of the empty slips and walls by the marinas in Erie, making sure to avoid occupied spots and boat traffic.  It's about 50/50 that someone yells at him, and threatens to call cops (he's actually a cop, himself).

I get that they're paying to be there, and it probably weird to have random people pull up and fish, but they're paying to dock and use the clubhouse.  It's like the people who complain when someone parks on the public street in "their" spot in front of their house.

We need that changed IMO.

LOL water laws are COC.

Been there, done that.  Had a landowner come out with a rifle, then had the local Sheriff waiting for me at the take out on public land.  He had his deputy Barney threaten us for about 10 minutes, including basically saying they did not want to follow the State law, it was their county.  I happened to be kayaking with an assistant State AG, he kept a copy of the State Attorney Generals ruling on the topic in his car.  We knew the worse that would happen is we would get locked up for a few hours.  There was at least a question to the streams navigability - but it was well within the limits that day of what the state defined as navigable (streams do not need to be navigable every day, what matters is the cut bank).  One thing on our side is mineral royalty laws in Texas.  The state owns the mineral rights within the cut bank.  They can not keep us out without giving up millions in royalty income.  The stream we were on was only navigable a few weeks every few years.  But the cut bank was definitely present.

So we went out of our way to obey every fucking letter of the law.  We were assaulted with a deadly weapon and harassed by the county sheriff.  He got to tell the land owner he was on his side - to make sure he would get the votes in the next election.  Meanwhile I was well aware his district attorney had gotten a nice slap down from the state about 2 weeks earlier over this same bullshit.  Damn the rains made for a great spring of paddling that year.

Another trip - different river, different county.  We had the county judge taking photo's of us with a huge ass telephoto lens so he could be using it as evidence.  That trip I was paddling with one of the local State game wardens.  He warned us the judge was an asshole, to not get out of our kayaks within sight of the judges house, not to touch the bank, etc...  None of which was law - we could have gotten out, walked on the bank, etc... under the Texas law regarding the right of downstream passage.  We could have walking in the stream as well, as landowners in that part of the state don't own the land under the water.  It was just easier to slide by while knowing the fuck did not care about the law - because he believed he was the law.  At least he did not pull a rifle on us.  Once again, the problem was the river in front of his house, while probably there most of the time, was not always deep enough to paddle.  It was possibly the most beautiful place I ever paddled (and why the game warden asked to do the trip with us.  There was an issue with legal access - we got around that by putting in at the game warden's house. Most any other paddler would have had to trespass access that river (and the judge would have had his case).  FWIW this was the Blanco River (a popular river in Texas)

That said, also had a rifle pulled on me while I was fishing from a boat.  Sure I was fishing near the bank - that is where the fish were.  But I was not within 1/2 mile of any man made structure on that bank.  I was not even tied up to the bank or anchored by it.  Bastard just thought he owned the whole GD river.  At least on this one there was no question that was not true, as I was in a fucking lake and used a public boat ramp about 1/2 mile away to gain access.  Sadly, the land owner happened to have a pasture next to one of the best fishing spots - so I guess he got a LOT of boat traffic.  I miss that spot - but the damn blew and it is now dry.  FWIW, this was the Guadalupe River (a major recreational river in Texas, I suspect it gets more traffic than any other river-due to tubing).
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Texas law defines navigable waterways based on the width of the cut bank.  It is absurdly small amount - 50' I think.  Cut banks are often hundreds of feet away from where the water level is.  That said, we have 2 different rules depending on the dead of the property.  If the property was deeded before Texas Independence - we have have one set of laws IIRC Spanish Land Grant laws - you can float because the state owns the water, but can not touch the banks or the bottom - this consists of a very small number of waterways (I think less than 1/2 dozen, and I can only think of one offhand that people paddle - the Devils River (abet it is supposed to be one of the most beautiful paddles in the state), mostly in western Texas.  The rest of the state, the land under the water and within the cut bank is ok to walk on (it is kind of state property that the land owner has an easement to).  Sucks some for land owners, but that law is probably 150 years old.

Paddling the Devils River is a royal pain in the ass - and I have never really attempted it.  The state has a park on both sides of the part paddled, but one of them is not open to the public.  You have request permission, and a park officer will unlock the gates and escort you to the water.  I think as part of the permission, you have to prove you have access to either private property, or the Nature Conservancies camp site (it is a 2 day paddle).  I suspect they also have a usage limit in issuing the permits both at the parks and at the Nature Conservancy site.  Then you can take out as usual at the end.  I suspect the land owners are informed of every group that legally launches - so they not only will report illegal groups, but make sure you don't even step foot out of your boat to take a piss.  Added to the fun, you better make sure the water levels are high enough that you NEVER have to portage.

Note the term "easement". that is your land but they have legal access.

My point was that, in my experiences, I have always owned up to the middle of a privately owned road, but only to the edge of a public road. I am guessing that ownership concerning roads can vary as greatly as waterways.

In Michigan it’s the high water mark, which means you can walk all the way around a lake along the beach or along a river. It’s nice. Most property owners know that, but naturally you get the rare guy like the cranks in this video.  

There’s an old guy up on Elk Lake that spends all summer yelling at everyone that walks by, even if they are in the water and 10 feet out from the beach. He’s had the le explained to him countless times so he obviously knows, but he persists. Who knew how many thousands of people he has wasted time yelling at. Crazy. A few years back as were transiting by on foot in the water we came across a bunch of broken glass in the water in front of his place - we’re pretty sure he’s tossing broken bottles out there. Stunningly gorgeous lake and the guy is tossing broken glass into it.

There was some crazy lady who yelled at some guy fishing near her dock in Sebastion.  They made it a event.

Joyces dock


Fish Joyce's dock event

I had a moron yelling at me because I was fishing his shoreline. I’m in a boat on a public lake.

A few years ago, a landowner in Missouri got in to a fight with floaters on the Meramec.  Landowner pulled out a gun and shot one dead on the gravel bar.  Around here people go on "float trips" and get absolutely shit hammered, leave trash and shit all over peoples property.  Where the floating occurs is very rural.  Every weekend in the summer, thousands of Citiots flock there and have little respect for the land/river.  

https://fox2now.com/news/one-dead-following-float-trip-fight/

That is too funny!  I couldn't imagine getting upset at people paddling or boating or fishing along my land.  People are insane.

Around here on our local river, there are several places that historically have allowed access for kayakers, fishermen and boaters.

But, what usually happens is, bubba bass boaters and partiers think that "access" means "I can do as I please" and do as you said...leave trash everywhere and mess up the place.

Then, the people who allowed access just to be a good neighbor have to shut it down because people are morons.

I never understood the mentality of, "I'm on someone else's property; let's trash it."

In Texas the river or creek has to be officially “deemed navigable”, not just meet the definition of average 30 feet between banks. A ton of creeks meet this definition but haven’t been officially studied by the state, therefore it can be considered private property until that happens, so it’s a grey area that can only be settled in court basically, in the meantime it can erupt to a battle than neither side needs to engage in, best handled amicably.

To complicate matters the Spanish land grants considered waterways private which the state going back to the Republic recognized. These videos are usually people looking for a fight for more views. I don’t agree with the a hole landowners harassing sportsman and people enjoying nature, but there are also a lot of asswipes who trash up a river and try to sue landowners if they slip and fall on the banks.

My thought is creeks and rivers are a life source and something humans and all animals are attracted to, if you don’t like people coming and going, don’t own land on a popular waterway.

Used to deal with crazy fucks like that in FL fishing canals around docks. Homeowners losing this shit.

The low water mark is measured in "normal/average" conditions - the real catch here is what is considered navigable.  It could be interpreted that the small boat clause above would means that the stream is not navigable as far as public usage goes; this is one of those cases where a lot of legal and historical background research comes in handy.

JFC OP, put the timestamp of the yelling in the first post.  I am not watching some dude fish for two hours.

Landowner sounds like a yankee.

Every year there are some lakefront property owners who call DEC upset that duck hunters can set up on their boats  right outside the callers houses and blast away as long as they're shooting out over the water

Those people exist everywhere. Both here and back in Alaska you can hike into some spot with minimal foot traffic and there will be trash there. Some people truly don't care. What sucks here is that it got a lot of our shooting areas shut down.

Yeah, it's fucked up here. Landowner owns to the middle of the stream, and it's tied to whether of not it is a "navigable" stream - a nebulous definition. This is common all over GA, even on big rivers like the Flint (an excellent shoal bass fishery). If you get out of the craft onto the shoal rocks, you can be charged with trespassing and fined, and many have. On world-class trout streams like the Soque, almost all of the river is private, and they get pretty dang ornery about it. I fish a lot, but I don't really care about trout, and only go to the Flint maybe once or twice a year. I have a COE permit to carry on all COE impoundments and waters of both the Mobile and Savannah districts. I keep a shorty on the big boat, and am never without a handgun in the small ones. I avoid confrontation, but I am prepared for the worst. People are the worst.

People seem to get confused about that.

You own the river bed....but not the river or what's floating in it.

There's a section of river that I hunt where I have to take a dog when we float it, because legally I can't get out of the boat except to portage, if a duck sails onto the bank I can't retrieve it myself.