Posted: 9/27/2013 6:52:52 PM EDT
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Three weeks ago my nephew was life flighted from a car wreck from Angleton TX to Houston TX approximately 45 miles each way. Today he was told by his lawyer that the cost of the air ambulance is $100,000.dollars. I think this is BS . I think his lawyer is trying to screw him around.
His emergency surgery cost $26,000 and is not being included with the cost of the flight. The flight was out of Herman Hospital. I need some help guys with what the price of this flight should cost. |
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Four or five years ago a friend of mine was flown about 100 miles one way here in Nevada and it was about $20,000.00 For people doing a lot of backcountry activites around the Reno/Tahoe area the REMSA 'Flight Plan Membership' is a not a bad idea. $55/year. Also covers CALSTAR currently. http://www.care-flight.com/membership.html |
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It's not cheap to fly a patient but you should be able to get an itemized bill explaining the charges. It costs a lot for a helicopter with two highly trained critical care staff to come pick up a patient. The more critical the patient, the higher the bill. They also get to charge for the distance transported.
I'm assuming it was a rotor flight if they picked him up at the hospital but if it was a transfer to a fixed wing at an airport that can drive the cost up. |
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EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene.  For good reason sometimes. It can be 30-45 minutes from the call to lift-off. If it's a rural area I want them en route as soon as possible. I would often put a bird on standby as soon as I had dispatch info if there would be an extended response time, it was in a rural area or I knew that there would be a delay for fire and extrication. Multiple patients that put me into MCI would also prompt a request for a flight team. |
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For good reason sometimes. It can be 30-45 minutes from the call to lift-off. If it's a rural area I want them en route as soon as possible. I would often put a bird on standby as soon as I had dispatch info if there would be an extended response time, it was in a rural area or I knew that there would be a delay for fire and extrication. Multiple patients that put me into MCI would also prompt a request for a flight team. Quoted:
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EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene. For good reason sometimes. It can be 30-45 minutes from the call to lift-off. If it's a rural area I want them en route as soon as possible. I would often put a bird on standby as soon as I had dispatch info if there would be an extended response time, it was in a rural area or I knew that there would be a delay for fire and extrication. Multiple patients that put me into MCI would also prompt a request for a flight team. This. You can always turn the helo back. $100k seems high. 20k-30k seems about right. |
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EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene. Nobody gets billed if a patient isn't transported. If we think that a helicopter is needed then they want to be put on standby early. Plus in the winter they have to wait until the gearbox is warmed up. It they aren't put on standby it can take quite a while for them to be ready for lift off. |
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EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene. they can always be called off. no one has ever died because the chopper got there too soon. my flight was in the neighborhood of 15-18k |
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Wow! When I flew Police Air Support we only turned out for critical/life threatening or inaccessible to ground units, but we did it for free. Every medevac in our region is owned by a private company and operated out of a hospital. Keeping those birds running and staffed with amazing crew doesn't come cheap. |
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Quoted: Every medevac in our region is owned by a private company and operated out of a hospital. Keeping those birds running and staffed with amazing crew doesn't come cheap. Quoted: Quoted: Wow! When I flew Police Air Support we only turned out for critical/life threatening or inaccessible to ground units, but we did it for free. Every medevac in our region is owned by a private company and operated out of a hospital. Keeping those birds running and staffed with amazing crew doesn't come cheap. I think all of ours, except the London based machines are funded by charities, or they were. Police machines have a scoop & run capability, casualty plus Paramedic and his/her essential gear to get them to a trauma unit inside that golden hour. The Police observer usually lends a hand once the pilot is pointed in the right direction. |
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Totally depends on the area here. There are three birds run by Virginia State Police, they're all free. Most of the others in the area are run by hospitals, or by PHI a private company that contracts with hospitals.
Maryland State Police has a very well funded program with something like 10-11 birds across the state, staffed entirely by troopers (even the medics are fully trained sworn troopers) |
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Most helicopter flights run $15,000-$30,000. There's a flat fee for the transport, then so much a mile after that. Most do not charge for all the individual supplies used, like a hospital would. The billing is very similar to a ground ambulance, but most insurance companies and the government wrote their air ambulance reimbursement policies off the ground policies.
Hermann used to be a completely independent program owned and operated by the hospital, so if still that way, there's no telling what they charge. My guess is that the $100,000 will be for EVERYTHING. The ground ambulance, the air ambulance, the ER, surgeries, rehab, etc. -------------- Also, to follow-up on a few other things, YES the helicopter is put on standby or launched prior to the ground unit reaching the scene. The reason is, it may take up to an hour to get a helicopter there depending on the location--if the nearest one is busy, if it's a multiple patient scene, they need to fly around weather, etc. Everyone isn't lucky enough to have an EMS helicopter sitting 5-10 minutes away. The ground ambulance crew, dispatcher, and air ambulance crew do not make this call to launch.......set protocols by the district's medical director makes the call. Falls over a certain height, ejection, rollover, etc all may have an auto launch criteria in most districts. If the ground crew gets there and the helicopter isn't needed, they are disregarded and no one gets a bill. ------------ Finally, in regards to Maryland and Virginia.....those flights are not "free" by any means. Those folks pay a lot more money for their license plates and that's what pays for the helicopter(s). And like all government run programs, it has it's flaws. |
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EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene. we do it all the time on potentially bad stuff along with an ambulance. there is ZERO charge if they do not transport. about 80% of the time we end up transporting by ground. if the patient is critical that time difference can be the difference in dead or survived. |
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Because he's trying to get a third of it.  Quoted:
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Why is a lawyer telling someone how much a Life Flight cost? Because he's trying to get a third of it. This should be a huge factor in your acceptance of the number the lawyer is throwing out. Never forget they want to take 33% of whatever they're getting for you.
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I work for a Air Medivac company .. I believe it's approx $40k to start up, $5k an hr... And that's on a AW139 And for the record NO I don't agree with the prices!!! I don't think that's correct. While a AW139 is a very expensive aircraft to operate, you can't charge the patient to "start up"--there's a flat fee for transport though.......then so much a mile for reimbursement. I wouldn't doubt that $5K an hour is the operating cost on that thing. I could be wrong as reimbursement varies from state to state, that just seemed exorbitant. Critical care transport is across the board, and you can't charge the patient more just because you choose to fly a very expensive helicopter. They may attempt to charge that, but good luck ever collecting. If it's part of the hospital maybe that's their write off.....who knows. |
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Quoted: Nobody gets billed if a patient isn't transported. If we think that a helicopter is needed then they want to be put on standby early. Plus in the winter they have to wait until the gearbox is warmed up. It they aren't put on standby it can take quite a while for them to be ready for lift off. Quoted: Quoted: EMT buddy of mine says it's $4000 to turn the blades and goes up from there. Local first responders put in a call for the bird before they ever arrive on the scene. Nobody gets billed if a patient isn't transported. If we think that a helicopter is needed then they want to be put on standby early. Plus in the winter they have to wait until the gearbox is warmed up. It they aren't put on standby it can take quite a while for them to be ready for lift off. ETA: 30-40k is not out of line for a rotor response and transport. |
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The patient doesn't get billed, and the requesting agency certainly doesn't get billed, but CMS allows air ambulance companies to bill for the initial response. Even if they are later cancelled, as long as the patient was still alive when they lifted off, it's a covered service. Hence the reason why air ambulance companies beg pre-hospital providers to request them even if they are cancelled later. They don't mind, because they get paid. ETA: 30-40k is not out of line for a rotor response and transport. I have been flying EMS for 10 yrs in a lot of different states and this has never been the case........we cannot bill if we do not render patient care. Even if we arrive on scene or at the hospital and the patient expires or AMA's, we cannot bill unless patient care was transferred to us. What state is this and/or who are you getting this information from? |
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Quoted: I have been flying EMS for 10 yrs in a lot of different states and this has never been the case........we cannot bill if we do not render patient care. Even if we arrive on scene or at the hospital and the patient expires or AMA's, we cannot bill unless patient care was transferred to us. What state is this and/or who are you getting this information from? Quoted: Quoted: The patient doesn't get billed, and the requesting agency certainly doesn't get billed, but CMS allows air ambulance companies to bill for the initial response. Even if they are later cancelled, as long as the patient was still alive when they lifted off, it's a covered service. Hence the reason why air ambulance companies beg pre-hospital providers to request them even if they are cancelled later. They don't mind, because they get paid. ETA: 30-40k is not out of line for a rotor response and transport. I have been flying EMS for 10 yrs in a lot of different states and this has never been the case........we cannot bill if we do not render patient care. Even if we arrive on scene or at the hospital and the patient expires or AMA's, we cannot bill unless patient care was transferred to us. What state is this and/or who are you getting this information from? |
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Department of Health and Human Services, more specifically the Center for Medicare/Medicaid Sevices.Chapter 10 of the Medicare Benefit Policy Manual. Quoted:
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The patient doesn't get billed, and the requesting agency certainly doesn't get billed, but CMS allows air ambulance companies to bill for the initial response. Even if they are later cancelled, as long as the patient was still alive when they lifted off, it's a covered service. Hence the reason why air ambulance companies beg pre-hospital providers to request them even if they are cancelled later. They don't mind, because they get paid. ETA: 30-40k is not out of line for a rotor response and transport. I have been flying EMS for 10 yrs in a lot of different states and this has never been the case........we cannot bill if we do not render patient care. Even if we arrive on scene or at the hospital and the patient expires or AMA's, we cannot bill unless patient care was transferred to us. What state is this and/or who are you getting this information from? I am familiar with that manual and the ONLY time you can bill Medicare for non-transport is when the patient dies before you load them. And then it's the base rate, no mileage. ETA: That's Medicare getting the bill for that, not the patient's family or their insurance. Who knows what they actually reimburse on that--my guess, not much. |
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Quoted: I am familiar with that manual and the ONLY time you can bill Medicare for non-transport is when the patient dies before you load them. And then it's the base rate, no mileage. ETA: That's Medicare getting the bill for that, not the patient's family or their insurance. Who knows what they actually reimburse on that--my guess, not much. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The patient doesn't get billed, and the requesting agency certainly doesn't get billed, but CMS allows air ambulance companies to bill for the initial response. Even if they are later cancelled, as long as the patient was still alive when they lifted off, it's a covered service. Hence the reason why air ambulance companies beg pre-hospital providers to request them even if they are cancelled later. They don't mind, because they get paid. ETA: 30-40k is not out of line for a rotor response and transport. I have been flying EMS for 10 yrs in a lot of different states and this has never been the case........we cannot bill if we do not render patient care. Even if we arrive on scene or at the hospital and the patient expires or AMA's, we cannot bill unless patient care was transferred to us. What state is this and/or who are you getting this information from? I am familiar with that manual and the ONLY time you can bill Medicare for non-transport is when the patient dies before you load them. And then it's the base rate, no mileage. ETA: That's Medicare getting the bill for that, not the patient's family or their insurance. Who knows what they actually reimburse on that--my guess, not much. |
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...in regards to Maryland and Virginia.....those flights are not "free" by any means. Those folks pay a lot more money for their license plates and that's what pays for the helicopter(s). And like all government run programs, it has it's flaws. Maryland State Police helicopters used to be funded by the Maryland Lottery. There were ads on the TV telling folks how they ought to play the lottery to help support the MSP helicopters. Then along came Art Modell and his "need" for a new football stadium for the Baltimore Ravens. Modell and his cronies in Annapolis fixed it so that he got a new stadium paid for by the state. So now all of the lottery proceeds goes to pay for the new stadium, and the cost of the MSP helicopters is paid by the taxpayers. ETA: Not only did Modell get a new stadium, but he gets to keep all the admission fees, parking fees, and concession fees. And the citizens get to pay. |
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That sounds about right. Emergency medicine in general and Life Flight in particular are exceedingly expensive. YUP..when the dept I intern for sends out a rescue..the cost just to start the truck is $2K 
That is a BLS rig and a fire rig..you want ALS just add another zero...it is insane |