[ARCHIVED THREAD] - M17 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/25/2007 9:16:27 AM EDT
| Is the BUSHMASTER M17 anygood? i like the look as its different from everything else i've got, anyone got one/had one? |
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Here's a post from something I posted a while ago (so forgive my laziness if some of this is a little unrelated): --------------------------- The Busmaster M17S is a POTENTIALLY great rifle that was never properly developed by Bushmaster. They kind of gave up half-way, and just kept selling the occasional one. Unfortunately, it needs some work to make it a great rifle. So, to get a great rifle, you should expect to spend anywhere from $200 - $400 on modifications and optics. I really like the M17S, but I would NOT spend $700 for one. At most, I'd pay about $500, knowing how much I'd need to spend on mods. In short, the pros and cons of the M17S are: Pros: 1. Very long barrel in very short package 2. Very good ergonomics (extremely well-balanced and easy to shoot) 3. Very solid receiver 4. Very reliable - with a piston gas system that requires little cleaning Cons: 1: The stock rail (and base) suck, and should be replaced 2. Needs optics of some kind 3. Trigger is not great (although is not really worse than most military triggers) 4. Some people need to get used to unfamiliar mag changes (not really a problem with the rifle, per se - just with peoples' habits and preferences) Some people incorrectly claim that the M17S is "heavy" - but it is no heavier than a comparable AR. Since the barrel is 21.5" the correct comparison is an AR with a similar-length barrel, and an AR with a 20" barrel weighs about the same as an M17S. Since the rifle is shorter than a 14.5" AR, people often make the mistake of incorrectly comparing its weight to the shorter rifles. So technically, the M17S is actually slightly lighter than comparable ARs, even with its piston gas system. Fortunately, Kurt Wala at KKF can do extensive mods if you have the time and money to spend. He has a variety of rail options for the top, better charging handle, and can tweak the trigger. He can also do more extensive custom modifications. For the price, it is still the best deal in bullpups - and the only american factory-made bullpup I am aware of. With a few mods, it really is a great rifle (but, in it's stock configuration it deserves the hate). But, like I said, I wouldn't pay $700 for one - and I'm one of the people that like it best. |
I guess a quick reload is out of the question? |
If you are talking about hwo it is more "difficult" to change mags on a bullpup, I think it is mostly a matter of training and what you are used to. For people that were trained on M16's (or other traditional mag-fed semi-autos) I think it does seem strange and awkward. Having been initially trained on Garands myself, I think a regular semi-auto and a bullpup semi-auto aren't really that different - it's just a different movement, but really the same thing. Honestly, I don't think a British infantryman trained on the SA80 is necessarily going to be appreciably slower changing a mag in the heat of battle than a U.S. infantryman trained on the M16. Once the movement is trained into your muscle memory, I really don't believe it would be much of an issue. I'm sure GI's who were used to Garands thought that changing mags in an M14 or M16 made a "quick reload" impossible 
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Intresting, I've always like the looks of them but I've never actually handled one. |
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Dear God, that is probably the worst shooting stance I've ever seen. I own a 'stock' M17, and I have to pretty much agree with DK: It has great potential, even though it rather sucks right out of the box. If you do nothing else to it, get rid of the default 'iron' sights and sight rail, and get something lower. Unfortunately, I do not have the money to get mine sent to Kurt, though I think it pretty much is mandatory, unless you're any good at gunsmithing yourself. I've never had a rifle easier to clean. NTM |
Plus, in case it wasn't as well known over there - Bushmaster actually stopped manufacturing/selling them last year, so they might be very difficult (if not impossible) to export to the U.K. now. |
 Nice scarf, too.  
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did he get a kink in his neck OMG god bendy head batman 
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Yeah ive only ever seen one at Bisley, not something i would buy as it wouldnt lend itself very well to single action, nice though. |
I honestly think that if they'd hired Kurt 10 years ago as a consultant to create several different models of the M17, had offered some accesories for it, and had marketed the hell out of it, then they could have had a good piece of the U.S. bullpup market. That market is now going almost entirely to the FN Ps90 and F2000, and will likely be followed by a domestic AUG - but if Bushmaster had marketed a redesigned M17S for under $1000 I think they could have done well. Obviously, it would never have been a huge mainstream item, but I think they could certainly have made some money and enhanced their reputation. Still, there's nothing wrong with the business decision to focus on AR's, since that is their bread and butter. I don't see it as a mistake so much as a missed opportunity. |
They take AR mags. It's hard to say how much they cost since Bushmaster no longer makes or sells them. If you look around, I'd think you could find an original one in fine condition for about $500-$600. As I said in my initial post, I wouldn't pay more than that because of the cost needed to "fix" it. For modified/custom ones like mine, who know what they cost? I know roughly how much I have in it, but how much I could sell it for obviously completely depends on finding the right buyer. |
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Hmmm. So it's a bullpup that's cheaper than an AR, has a shorter length and long barrel, takes AR mags and ammo, and costs a little over half as much as an AR. Heck, I'll get one if I get the chance. Of course, unless a few thousand dollars just land in my lap some time soon, it'll be about a decade before I can afford one and they'll be banned by then. ETA: Actually, it just may get around the new AWB if it's implemented. It isn't based on any other receiver, it isn't use by LEO's or military, and it isn't included in the list of banned receivers. If the ban does pass, Bushmaster might start cranking these things out to stay in business. |
Wow... first time using a firearm and no one has the smarts or courtesy to give her a hand!??! This picture is the closest thing to an accident waiting to happen that I have ever seen. All you need is a guy saying... "I'm the only one here qualified to handle a M17!" For gods sake, take that picture down... it doesn;t make anyone or the gun look good. |
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shweeeeet!! liondog + pup + cx4stormer + cherry ridge == fun! |
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What does it say on the rear of the receiver? |
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I think they have ugly ass "styling" fences around the mag release  ridge lines that run down the length of the rifle carry handle/rails If needs a quad rail integral to the reciever near the muzzel and the top rail going all the way back, flush on the reciever for optics/irons. That and grip looks ugly as hell to. |
| Use quality ammo. Why? Because it shares the design of the AR with a small, unsupported section of the case. Normally, this part of the case is solid brass, being the web of the case. But several brands, like Federal American Eagle and Hirtenberger have had brass with dangerously thin webs, leading to failures. Although most of the failures happen with reloads, there is a distinct possibility of brass failure with factory ammo. In an AR, this results in a toasted magazine, bolt and possibly upper receiver. But in the M17..... |
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Something else Liondog's photos show is that the point of balance is pretty perfectly centred on the pistol grip. It's a very 'handy' gun. On the issue of cost, mine was new at about $600. A cheap optic went up top (Hakko Panoramic) as the default sights are pathetic. NTM |
IIRC make, model, SN# |
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I sold mine because the gas system is IMPOSSIBLE to clean...it is mounted above the barrel, and surrounded by the upper reciever. Completely impossible to get at, unless you were to take the barrel off. An interesting thing about it is that the barrel is "dynamically tensioned" by being rigidly secured both at the chamber and the front of the reciever. |
Like this????    Was below freezing temperatures at Fort Dix shoot, witnessed by 12+ ARFcommers. I never found the spent cartridge - there was a good foot of snow a ground. I was HAPPY to still have a shoulder and face - and a pretty one at that.  BM said it was my defective ammo - they cut me a break on a lower replacement.
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<Grumbles> OK, I'll go take a look.</Grumbles> ETA: Yup, It is what I said.
It is shadow that enhances a rather prosaic look. |