Posted: 12/23/2008 2:31:49 PM EDT
I heard today from a State POlice officer that he got his Class 3 weapon on Department letter head. He said this weapon is his even when he seperates from the department. Is this True? I hope I hope I hope!!!
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| Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. |
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. He ain't keeping shit if it's a Post 86 gun. |
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. He ain't keeping shit if it's a Post 86 gun. Ding, ding, ding. There's your answer. If he has a dealer/class III license he could "keep it" in a sense. But it's not transferable to any private person or himself. |
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I heard today from a State POlice officer that he got his Class 3 weapon on Department letter head. He said this weapon is his even when he seperates from the department. Is this True? I hope I hope I hope!!! Nope.....he is lying. The only way he keeps it is if he goes through the same process that any US citizen must go through. |
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Of course there is the flip side of the coin...suppose it is a true pre-86 mg capable of being registered.
Would the state be so stupid as to give away a weapon worth $5k - $14k? I would hope not. Sounds as bad as this National Guard moron I once knew who claimed he kept his M16 at home and took it to the range, etc. When he showed it to me it was an Oly Arms AR missing a selector detent that allowed it to flip to position 3. Don't know if I'd call him a liar, probably just mistaken. There is another loophole to this, though now that I think about it. Some AR's are made for "Law Enforcement Only", this was crucial during the AWB years. They were exempt from the federal excise tax and Dept letterhead was required to buy them. At the time I was working for a manufacturer and the owner considered getting some to keep as samples. Never followed through. Maybe he has some kind of discounted AR15 and he's entitled to keep it after he retires? |
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. He ain't keeping shit if it's a Post 86 gun. Exactly. |
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. He ain't keeping shit if it's a Post 86 gun. Can you imagine how many ARFCOMMERs would be reserve deputies (briefly) if an idiotic loophole like this existed? |
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I heard today from a State POlice officer that he got his Class 3 weapon on Department letter head. He said this weapon is his even when he seperates from the department. Is this True? I hope I hope I hope!!! Negative Ghost-rider. That pattern is full. |
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From what I've been told is that if the officer buys the class 3 with a department letterhead and separates to another department then the transfere can still be upheld. If you leave the department then the firearm has to stay there if your not going elsewhere. From what I "heard" its called a lateral firearm transfere. I really can't back that up though. I haven't done it. I know this though. I could of purchased a class three firearm with a department letterhead but it would be like I was purchasing the firearm for the city. DON'T THINK SO!!!!!
Now I don't know what would happen if you did not go to another department I imagine it would probably have to stay with the department until you were cleared. Which I could see the FEDs coming and saying "well we will hold on to this for you right now" Six months down the road well we can't find you firearm or any paperwork. My advice would be get the stamp, get fingerprinted, wait the time, then purchase your firearm. Sounds like toooo many hoops to have to jump through. 
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From what I've been told is that if the officer buys the class 3 with a department letterhead and separates to another department then the transfere can still be upheld. If you leave the department then the firearm has to stay there if your not going elsewhere. From what I "heard" its called a lateral firearm transfere. I really can't back that up though. I haven't done it. I know this though. I could of purchased a class three firearm with a department letterhead but it would be like I was purchasing the firearm for the city. DON'T THINK SO!!!!! Now I don't know what would happen if you did not go to another department I imagine it would probably have to stay with the department until you were cleared. Which I could see the FEDs coming and saying "well we will hold on to this for you right now" Six months down the road well we can't find you firearm or any paperwork. My advice would be get the stamp, get fingerprinted, wait the time, then purchase your firearm. Sounds like toooo many hoops to have to jump through. If you plan on being able to keep it this isn't even an option if it's post 86. |
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Ok, I just got off the phone with Agent Foust or Fouts of ATF. He said a certified active duty officer can get a Department Letter Head from his Agency. The Letter must state that the Officer will use and qualify with the weapon while on duty. The problem comes if the officer seperates from his agency because the $200 tax was not paid due to the letter head. He will get back with me tommorrow to let me know if there is a procedure to pay the tax and keep the gun. He ain't keeping shit if it's a Post 86 gun. This |
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http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/ils/press/2006/Jan/01172005_ISPMachinegun.pdf
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- Three Illinois Officers Charged For Possessing Submachine Guns At Home By Michael Shaw St. Louis Post-Dispatch 02/03/2006 The charges: Three officers and a doctor are accused of having submachine guns What's next: All four face prosecution in federal court in East St. Louis. Three Illinois State Police officers, who could legally handle submachine guns for their jobs, have been charged with violating federal firearms regulations for allegedly having them at home, officials announced Tuesday. The troopers - two assigned to District 11 at Collinsville and one to District 18 at Litchfield - were placed on paid leave while their cases are handled in federal court in East St. Louis. Also charged is a doctor, formerly of Glen Carbon, who allegedly lent one of the weapons to a trooper who said he test-fired it and gave it back. There is no allegation that the men trafficked in illicit weapons or committed any crime beyond illegally possessing them. Authorities would not say what launched the investigation or how federal agents found out about the weapons. U.S. Attorney Ed McNally said the fact that three defendants are law enforcement officers does not matter. "Teddy Roosevelt said, 'No man is above the law and no man below it,'" McNally said at a news conference. "If the United States obtains sufficient evidence that the law has been violated, whether by a law enforcement officer or any other public official or a private person, they will be prosecuted." One of the defendants, Special Agent John Yard, 36, of Collinsville, had recently worked with federal agents investigating public corruption at East St. Louis City Hall. He's a nine-year veteran of the State Police. Charges say Yard admitted borrowing a Colt AR-15 rifle that could be switched to fire in a fully automatic mode. According to court documents, Dr. Harold Griffiths, 69, of Spaulding, Ill., formerly of Glen Carbon, told federal agents the gun had been converted into a fully automatic weapon. Spaulding is near Springfield. Griffiths was among those charged in indictments Jan. 11 that were unsealed Tuesday. The others are Sgt. James V. Vest, 39, of O'Fallon, who like Yard works in the Collinsville district, and Senior Master Trooper Greg Mugge, 51, of Jerseyville, who is assigned to Litchfield. Both admitted keeping rifles altered for automatic fire in their homes, according to the affidavits Vest, a 16-year State Police veteran, said he bought his M-4/M-16 rifle in 1998 in California, according to court documents. Mugge, with 21 years in the department, told officials he bought his AR-15 rifle from a now-deceased licensed dealer in Harrisburg, ll., in the late 1970s or early '80s. Under federal firearms laws, not even police officers can own weapons that can fire a steady stream of bullets with one squeeze of the trigger. All four entered pleas of not guilty Tuesday and were released without having to post bail. None of them could be reached for comment. They had agreed to be interviewed by agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, according to affidavits filed with the charges,and all consented to searches of their homes. The three weapons cited in the charges were all seized. The charge of illegal possession of an automatic weapon carries a maximum penalty of 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine, although federal guidelines suggest substantially less punishment for people with no previous criminal background. A State Police spokesman said that if the troopers are convicted, a merit board would decide the fate of their jobs. State Police Director Larry Trent attended the news conference and described his accused employees as "three otherwise good officers with good records." "I'm very disappointed and I deeply regret the judgment used by three of our officers," Trent said. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- Three state troopers, local doctor face machine-gun charges. By JIM SUHR THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published Wednesday, January 18, 2006 FAIRVIEW HEIGHTS - Three Illinois State Police troopers have been suspended from their jobs after being accused with a Springfield-area doctor of illegally possessing machine guns, authorities announced Tuesday. Troopers Greg Mugge, John Yard and James Vest each were charged last week with one count of illegally possessing a machine gun last year, as was Dr. Harold Griffiths, 69, of Spaulding. The U.S. attorney's office here unsealed the charges Tuesday. Mugge, 51, of Jerseyville, is a senior master trooper with the state police in Litchfield. Vest, 39, of O'Fallon, is a sergeant in Collinsville. Yard, 36, of Collinsville, is a state police special agent in Collinsville who once worked for the FBI's public corruption task force in Fairview Heights, authorities said. Griffiths, who recently lived in Glen Carbon, now practices medicine in Springfield, prosecutors said. None of the affidavits accompanying the criminal complaints revealed Griffiths' possible connection to any of the police officers, other than the allegation that he had lent one of the guns to Yard in October. Interim U.S. Attorney Edward McNally refused to discuss details of the cases beyond the criminal complaints. The troopers have been suspended with pay until formal charges are filed with the state police's merit review board, after which their leave would become unpaid, according to Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent. The four were arraigned Tuesday in federal court in East St. Louisand released on their own recognizance, McNally said. None of entered a plea, pending preliminary hearings set for Feb. 10 or the presentation of the case to a grand jury, McNally's office said. Each charge carries a possible 10 years in prison and $250,000 in fines, prosecutors said. "While I'm very disappointed and deeply regret the judgment used by three of our officers, they are not above the law," Trent said during a news conference. Trent said the three troopers could have lawfully possessed the machine guns if they had been assigned to them as part of their work duties but could not have them as private citizens. John O'Gara, a Belleville attorney for Griffiths, said his client - a Vietnam veteran and former part-time California police officer - "has been an upstanding citizen his entire life and was obviously upstanding throughout this investigation." "My client is a tremendous man and is at all times a gentleman," O'Gara said, deferring comment about the specific charges. The troopers could not be reached for comment, and it was not known whether they had hired attorneys yet. ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- |
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http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mie/press/2008/2008-3-7_gttheunick.pdf
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mie/press/2008/2008-4-8_fmackinnon.pdf Former Midland County, MI, prosecutor heading to prison for illegally obtaining machine guns and silencers by LaNia Coleman | The Saginaw News Wednesday April 09, 2008, 6:31 PM MIDLAND –– He used to help send people to prison; now, he's heading there himself. Former Midland County Assistant Prosecutor Frederick A. MacKinnon will spend five years in a federal lockup for abusing the authority of his office to obtain seven machine guns and nine silencers for personal use. MacKinnon was Ogemaw County prosecutor when the offenses occurred. A jury in August convicted MacKinnon and Maxwell L. Garnett, former Rose City police chief, of 51 charges. The jury found a third defendant, Gary J. Theunick, a former Ogemaw County chief assistant prosecutor and Saginaw police officer, guilty of 26 charges. All of the counts involve unlawful possession of machine guns and silencers, including four .22-caliber silencers, a .223-caliber machine gun, a .45-caliber submachine gun and a 9 mm submachine gun. U.S. District Judge Robert H. Cleland sentenced MacKinnon, 54, of Hale on Tuesday. Cleland earlier sentenced Garnett to 71 months in prison and Theunick to 63 months. The men started buying the guns in 1999. Federal law strictly restricts the possession of machine guns. Authorities indicted them in 2005. Former Midland Prosecutor Norman Donker hired MacKinnon in April 2001. Current Prosecutor Michael Carpenter took office on Jan. 1, 2005, and fired MacKinnon on Jan. 19, 2005, immediately after reviewing the criminal allegations against MacKinnon. Carpenter said he was "shocked and very disappointed" but "knew right away I had to terminate Mr. MacKinnon's employment. The criminal allegations and charges were extremely serious, and prosecutors must be held to the highest standards because they are responsible for enforcing the laws of the state." Theunick retired from the Saginaw Police Department in 1994 after 20 years as a patrol officer. |
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Drew Peterson Hit With Gun Charge
CHICAGO, May 22 (UPI) - Drew Peterson, a retired Illinois police officer suspected in the disappearance of his fourth wife, was free on bail Thursday on a gun charge, police say. Peterson surrendered to state police Wednesday on a charge of felony unlawful use of a weapon, which by law was too short, By mid-afternoon. he was on his way back to his suburban Chicago home after posting 10 percent of a $75,000 bond, the Chicago Tribune said. The guns, 11 in all, had been seized in a police search on his home. One assault rifle was deemed illegal because of the shortness of its barrel, a charge carrying a potential penalty of up to 5 years in prison. Peterson's attorney accused authorities of trying to rattle his client. Peterson, 54, a former Bollingbrook police sergeant, has been named a suspect in the Oct. 28 disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy, who was 23 at the time. He has not been charged. Authorities are also conducting a murder investigation into the 2004 drowning of his previous wife, Kathleen Savio. Peterson has not been charged in that case either and insists he has done nothing wrong. |
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I heard today from a State POlice officer that he got his Class 3 weapon on Department letter head. He said this weapon is his even when he seperates from the department. Is this True? I hope I hope I hope!!! It doesn't say Select fire/machine gun. It is probably an SBR. (also class III / NFA). He would then need only pay the $200 transfer tax to put it in his name when he leaves. |
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Once you leave the PD...it forever stays with the PD if you are talking select fire (pre-86). This was stated to me directly from the LE/MIL dealer from LMT just the other day. Your post should read POST-86. Not pre-86. Although, there are some guns that were pre-86 and still not transferrable. These are the rarity and not the norm. |
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Drew Peterson Hit With Gun Charge CHICAGO, May 22 (UPI) - Drew Peterson, a retired Illinois police officer suspected in the disappearance of his fourth wife, was free on bail Thursday on a gun charge, police say. Peterson surrendered to state police Wednesday on a charge of felony unlawful use of a weapon, which by law was too short, By mid-afternoon. he was on his way back to his suburban Chicago home after posting 10 percent of a $75,000 bond, the Chicago Tribune said. The guns, 11 in all, had been seized in a police search on his home. One assault rifle was deemed illegal because of the shortness of its barrel, a charge carrying a potential penalty of up to 5 years in prison. Peterson's attorney accused authorities of trying to rattle his client. Peterson, 54, a former Bollingbrook police sergeant, has been named a suspect in the Oct. 28 disappearance of his fourth wife, Stacy, who was 23 at the time. He has not been charged. Authorities are also conducting a murder investigation into the 2004 drowning of his previous wife, Kathleen Savio. Peterson has not been charged in that case either and insists he has done nothing wrong. 
They're pissed about the lack of developments in Lacey's disappearance as well as the fact that he ostensibly pulled the crime while a badged officer. Hate to sound like one of the GD JBT  crowd, but I wouldn't put it past the ISP - possibly at the direction of an elected official - to have measured the barrel after removing the pinned flash hider.
We're not exactly known as "Illannoys, the 'gun friendly' state". 
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