Well, which is it?



 

So sheriffs won't arrest people with the wrong mags? They'll arrest them all the while carrying what the second class citizen can't.

Shitty answer but, it depends. How much is a career worth? The ability to support your family?

Put that guy in the can overnight for dancing (charges dropped later)? Ok. Put that guy away for years over some metal boxes with springs inside (and mark him as a felon forever)? No, fuck you.

That is what I would do anyway.

I think a very very small minority on here actually relish the though of disarming LEOs or even disadvantaging them in the slightest. The rest of us just want to see ban states reap what they have sown. To be perfectly honest I don't think Magpul changing their stance would hurt a single LEO because they either already have mags or will get them somewhere else. The message it sends, however, would be impossible to ignore.





 

I think if you guys put that 2A support check box on your order form, it would be awesome. You could trip up some real assholes later, when they open their mouths and satisfy most of arfcom at the same time.

*cough*wyoming*cough*  

Possibly.  But it only does one thing for certain.

Does this mean companies such as LaRue and Bravo don't have such high principles as Magpul's? Are you committing that Magpul will not sell to these 100+ companies that don't share these same ideals? On one hand you say "we don’t believe a policy like this is the best way to achieve those goals for us" meaning it's really about the $$$ since Magpul is still doing business with those involved in the boycott, but also selling to those for whom the boycott is against. I may be a layman, but it sounds to me you guys want it both ways...

Fair enough. I can't agree with you, but I can damn sure respect a stand on your principles. You guys made one hell of a stand in CO, and nothing people disagree with Magpul about now erases that.



You guys ever want to explain on this part in red you probably have a bunch of people wanting to listen.
 

I've decided to contact those businesses who are involved in the boycott the following email. For those who want to use part of it may do so.

Dear_________________


Within the last few days Magpul Industries issued a statement involving the boycott that your company is a part of. Magpul has stated that they will not be involved in such a boycott. In part their statement reads;

"Regardless of political views, these guys face violent criminals, make 2 am traffic stops, serve felony warrants, raid meth labs, etc. We refuse to punish LE collectively for the anti-2A beliefs of some, or even of their politically appointed chiefs, who could care less about properly equipped officers in many cases. We see this as no different than demanding that legislators do not punish all of society for the actions of criminals by taking away rights from the law abiding. Because of this, we won’t bend from our principles, and if anyone decides they need to not buy our products based on this stance, then we are fine with you not bending on yours."

It appears that Magpul believes they have higher principles than you, but at the same time, continues to profit from your business and from those the boycott is against. While I find this a bit contradictory this is the message that Magpul has delivered, and ended their statement with the following;

"We encourage others, whether friends or competitors, to do what they think is best, also, even if it differs from our position. This may evolve, but for right now, that is where we are at, and while we are always open to listening to reason, no boycotts or flaming will change our minds from doing what we feel is the right thing to do"

While Magpul doesn't share the same opinion on the boycott as your business is a part of, I want to let you know, that I cannot, in good conscious, do business with those who carry products from manufactures who do not support our cause on this. This is action that we all must be a part of, and I will only do business with those who are in this battle to win it.

In closing, I want to thank you for taking the time in reading this, and I hope that your company has the right principles to see this fight through.

Sincerely,

Thank you Magpul.  There's a bunch of dumb fucks on this site that don't gave a rat's ass about the 2nd amendment they just don't like cops and like these business to stop selling to LE as a way of sticking it to the man.

That's fucked up

We don't want to punish LEO's.

The anti's, FOR DECADES, have exempted LEO's in their ban statutes for two reasons.......(1) to buy them off and (2) because they are perceived to need superior weapons than we are.

I believe number (1) to be the primary reason and this may be tinfoil on my part but that is what I believe is the PRIMARY reason.

Magpul has played into that strategy and made the anti's strategy successful IMHO.

I haven't seen anything posted about contracts with state/local LE agencies anywhere, so I'll just throw it in this thread.

Companies like Larue, Barrett and BCM do not have a whole lot of contracts with local/state LE agencies for actual weapons (not talking about accessories)***. They can decide to "stop" selling their weapons to LE agencies in those states, because most of their sales are made on an as-needed basis, so the total number of sales to agencies is relatively few. I quoted "stop" here because the nature of these companies' sales to LE agencies is usually infrequent and uncertain, so they never really "start" in the sense where sales normally begin and are ongoing. The important nature of these sales of these companies to LE agencies is they usually aren't being sold under long-term contracts, i.e. they have no obligation to continue producing weapons for said LE agencies.

Companies like Colt, Armalite, Smith & Wesson usually sell under large, long-term contracts and can't just decide to "stop" selling to LE agencies on a whim. These businesses have a legal obligation to continue producing/procuring/delivering weapons to LE agencies until existing contracts are fulfilled. If they stop, they'll be in breach of contract. I put "stop" in quotes here because these companies could continue production under current contracts until fulfillment, while refusing to negotiate new contracts. However, such a refusal to pursue new contracts would be very detrimental to these larger companies that many (but not all) of these larger companies. They absolutely rely on government contracts.

Additionally, whatever company decided to not extend any contracts for the provision of weapons to an LE agency would effectuate nothing; a counterpart company would step in and gladly negotiate a contract. In the case of Smith and Wesson, who do you think is going to step in? Without any doubt, Glock would fulfill most of the contracts. Ceteris paribus, I'd much rather have all those tax dollars be spent on equipment from a US manufacturer than going overseas. However, the potential for substitute fulfillment is not the point of my post.

In sum, at least for these larger companies, there are really only two tenable positions:
1) Damn the consequences, it is the principle of the matter: Stop selling to LE agencies in rights-restrictive states, our voice must be heard.
2) It is disappointing that the LE agencies of rights-restrictive states enjoy greater rights than these states deem the 2nd Amendment to provide citizens, and it is also disappointing that there is not much that these companies can do about it.

That said, I would advocate that you not waste your time bashing these larger companies - denigrating them is not going to change anything. Moreover, sitting on the computer bashing each other will certainly produce no results. I completely understand people not wanting to support a company, refusing to spend money on their products out of principle and then voicing their opinions here or elsewhere. That is absolutely your right and I doubt anyone would posit the contrary. Yet quarreling and haranguing each other is futile. Spend that time instead contacting as many representatives as you can. Hell, contact these larger corporations and demand that they engage in more proactive support of the 2A. Its not just the duty of the residents of those rights-restrictive states to prevent, stop, or end tyranny, it is the duty of every US citizen.

"Of Liberty, then, I would say, that in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will; but rightful liberty is unobstructed action, according to our will, within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law', because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual." - Thomas Jefferson (in his final letter to Isaac H. Tiffany, implicitly discussing the natural right of self government)


***Larue, Barrett, BCM, and Spikes may very well have some contracts with LE agencies, yet the volume of sales under these contracts to the volume of civilian sales is presumably very low. I would assume that Magpul and PWS fall under this category as well, but I am not certain. Please indicate if this is incorrect.

ETA: I've edited this a few times as I've continued to think about the matter. I've come back to the topic again and I'll edit it once more to add my position to the extent it was not previously ascertainable in the spirit of full disclosure and to promote discussion.

I understand many companies not joining the LE agency boycott, as it is not only their right to make this decision, but it is also entirely impracticable for some. At the same time, I am very happy that some companies have begun boycotting the LE agencies; this gives our cause a much stronger voice and offers the government new perspective. Moreover, the companies that have decided to refuse selling to LE agencies have put their reputations and businesses on the line in the face of lost profits and governmental and/or LE community retribution. For some of these companies, like Larue or BCM, I am in no way surprised. They are headed by highly convicted individuals with firm foundations who will not yield to the abrogation of the rights of US citizens. Their actions speak volumes and I cannot thank them enough for considering and giving deference my interests and rights over their bottom line. Nevertheless, my continued support of these companies via my minimal purchases will have to suffice.

As for the LE officers, they have very little to do with the current political sentiment; it is not the fault of LEOs in rights-restrictive states that citizens are being denied individual freedoms. I fully support the LEOs, thank them for their service and hope they can take some of the current negativity with a grain of salt. I hope they understand that the decisions of these companies is not a reflection on them, their agencies, or the value of their service, but rather, a reflection upon the failures of the representatives of the states in which they exist.

The point is not that all LEOs are bad.  I don't believe anyone has said that, but what it an easy and obvious approach is this:  if an item is banned from a state, the ban will be implemented and applied to the entire state, not against the majority, with exception for a small minority.


















 

LOL, GTFO.  The cops in NY just jailed and charged a war hero over mags.  The same has been going on in other states for decades.  In fact, when the guy in NJ got 7 years for all the "banned" stuff he had, the cops hammered his ass and the majority of ARFCOM said "well, it was the law and he broke it.  Play stupid games . . ."

All guilty of GD LEO hate apparently





 

Tag.

Sure it is, it's as easy to enforce as MAP etc.....you put it in our contract with your distributors and you ban hammer or sue the shit out of those who don't comply. Didn't we have a company here get in trouble with Aimpoint not long ago for "under selling"? That shit was fixed like RIGHT NOW as I recall!

Two things- What is the largest segment of their sales, Leo or Civilian? Do you work to preserve the largest portion of your income? Second in our free market economy people are free to spend their money as they see fit, part of that for some folks is spending it with a company that supports their values and beliefs. So while they are not "obligated" to help fight the consequences of not doing so should be painfully obvious.

Bravo Company gets it.



"While Bravo Company has made a great many friends with the fine
officiers that serve in the Milwaukee Police Department, regrettably as
of today, we will no longer do business with Chief Edward Flynn and the
Milwaukee PD."





http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1448362_Bravo_Company_cut_off_the_Milwaukee_PD_after_Chief_Flynn_went_on_a_tangent_yesterday_.html

 

After what happened with the trigger happy LAPD in the Dorner manhunt, LEO's are the last people in the country that I want to have 30 round mags!

Well, someone had to say it!!

And, AWAY WE GO!!

I'm sure I'm wasting my time, but it's a slow morning.

You don't get it.  This has nothing to do with cop hate, or sticking it to anyone.  This is completely about 2nd amendment rights.  Look at NY, and think, serriously think about that.  In the matter of an evening, the course of rights and freedoms for those there was changed.  Done.  That's it.  Imagine going to bed and then waking up to that news.  "Won't happen to me, I live in the great state of Texas".  Bullshit.  Before we know it, we could all be NY.

What Magpul is doing, makes no sense to me at all.  Laws are nothing without enforcement.  They're willing to move their entire operation out of state (and all that entails) to show their principles, but at the same time, will still provide to LE what is illegal to non-LE....having LE being those who enforce the law.  Not only that, but they'll fast-track their purchase.  In my opinion, this is counterintuitive.

What Magpul is doing, is arming those who would disarm us (us being you, too).  LEO are the ones raiding meth labs, so they deserve their 30rd mag more than I do protecting my children and wife in the middle of the night when a methhead comes through my front door.

Time to break out the milspec aluminum mags.

Bye bye PMAGs.

I've got no problem boycotting Quislings.

Fuck Armalite.  I wouldn't take one of their rifles if they GAVE it to me.

And at this point, ditto for Magpul.  I've bought my last Magpul product.

Fuck them.

Someone else will bring a better product AND a willingness to hold EVERYONE, civilian and government alike, to the same standards on sales.

Tapco and century

Because nobody else can make a high quality magazine out of plastic, ever......Jesus Christ I hope a meteor doesn't hit their plant it would be the end as we know it.....

I am going to buy an Oly because of this. I was looking at buying an AR-10, but will probably get some sort of Oly 9mm, 45acp or something instead. Not sure, I have to look into once demand dies down. I'll still keep a few P-Mag around, probably 100 less than I otherwise would. I really don't care for the LEO fastlane.

I don't know

I use USGI, made in Hartford, CT

Smart ass!!

Oly is not milspec

THIS!  

Oh, and I'm sure my county would grant a tax abatement here in Texas if your looking for new scenary in a Pro 2nd Amendment state  

See my post above and I'm calling the same bs here as well.

This isn't about cop hate.  It's about cops deserving/needing/have access to a 30rd mag that I can't.

So tell me, Mr. gbcop...why is ok for YOU to protect yourself with a  30rd mag, but not for me?

So quit and move somewhere else to hope to get a job in this wonderful economy while starting from bottom pay?

FUCK  MAGPUL

They are playing both sides of the fence. Talk a big show about moving out of CO in a principal stand for citizens 2A rights -- and at the same time have a special LEO fast track setup.

What the fuck don't some of you dipshits see about this????

- we will leave CO in a stand for 2A rights
- and at the same time we fast track equip THE VERY LEO that will enforce the death of those 2A rights

FUCK YOU MAGPUL

Don't tell me you stand for my rights when at the same time you make special provisions to equip the very jack booted thug who will kick my door in and arrest me to confiscate the very product he carries in his magwel. (figuratively speaking, my state is not currently a ban state)

And I bet a damn dollar to a hole in a donut that you DON'T leave CO either.

Now, having said all that, I love your products, always have and have spent thousands of dollars on it.
BUT DON'T PISS DOWN MY BACK AND TELL ME IT'S RAINING.

YOU ARE EITHER FOR THE SECOND AMENDMENT OR NOT.
There is no middle ground.

...
...



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

I'm gonna sell my remaining peemags to cops

pick a  side of the line and stay behind it.

Because the cops made the law? What have you done to fight the laws passing? More than magpul? I doubt it.

So where does Lancer stand on this issue?

My money has to go somewhere.

No more Magpul for me. I've got about three dozen Pmags and from now on it'll be D&H.

There is a well-coordinated and well-financed effort to pass similar laws in multiple states, starting with those most likely to adopt (New York being the best example)

The problem with the 'we will not sell to departments, but will sell to officers on letterhead' dodge is it undermines the ability of a unified front against these laws.

Every legislature now knows that any LE opposition will evaporate, since some manufacturers (Armalite, Magpul, Colt etc) will continue to arm those who will enforce these laws, either overtly, or with end-around moves like the letterhead two-step.

The manufacturers are either blindly or willfully ignorant of this, and value only their bottom line. That is business.

It is also myopic, as the end game is get enough states to ban, and the rest will fall, if not individually, then by Federal mandate.

By then, the manufacturers in question will have effectively eliminated their own consumer/civilian markets.

They may not be thinking this through, or they may just not care.

Either way, they are selling us, and the 2nd Amendment out. No matter how much they claim to support it.



Edit: spelling

These really are symbolic gestures, guys. You must realize this.

How do we really know until it is played out and LEO's can't get the weapons/accessories, etc., they thought they could get via special exemptions?

if i'm interpreting your meaning correctly agree.  companies showing that they stand behind the 2nd is what's important,  not whether cops get to have 30 rounders or not.

I made this offer in a previous (now locked) Armalite thread. But it bears updating and repeating...

For all of you Armalite (and now Magpul) owners with your panties in a bunch, please feel free send me any of your functioning Armalite & Magpul products. I will make sure they are thoroughly used and abused. I'll even cover shipping and any transfer fees.

Hopefully my offer will allow anyone who takes it up to sleep a little better at night knowing you no longer have to worry about those evil Armalite/Magpul products no longer in your possession.

Disappointing, I liked Magpul products.