Posted: 3/16/2004 12:26:09 PM EDT
|
This is the first anniversery of bulldozer girl getting run over. Has anyone thought of anything appropriate to do to mark this occasion? I thought driving over some pie might be appropriate. Maybe later having some pizza. |
|
[blue]Rachel Corrie (1979-2003). A 23-year-old American student at Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington, took a semester off to be a peace activist, shielding Palestinians from Jewish aggression in Gaza. She was murdered by an Israeli soldier on 16 March 2003. Before the killing, the IDF soldier had already menaced the activists by using the Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer (serial number 949623) to press huge piles of dirt and rubble against them, pushing Rachel back against a fence on one occasion and pushing another activist (Will) into some coils of razor wire. In doing this, the bulldozer driver was intimidating the activists by demonstrating his disregard of their safety. "Don't get in my way, or I'll hurt you!" is what he was conveying with his actions. The peace activists refused to be intimidated, so the Israeli bulldozer driver became murderously resolute. He aimed his bulldozer at Rachel Corrie, who was initially sitting in between the bulldozer and a house belonging to Dr. Samir Nasrallah1, a Palestinian physician. The Jew wanted to knock down the doctor's home. Rachel Corrie was determined to protect that house. She would either move or she would die, decided the bulldozer driver. As the bulldozer approached Rachel, she stood up and climbed a pile of dirt that the bulldozer had shoveled up, in order to remain in the driver's direct view. She was the most visible object in the driver's forward direction, since not only was she in plain sight, she was also wearing a high-contrast fluorescent orange jacket. 1The Palestinian doctor's name was given elsewhere as Samir Masri. She [Rachel] got so high onto it [the mound of dirt] that she was at eye-level with the cab of the bulldozer. Her head and upper torso were above the bulldozer's blade, and the bulldozer driver and co-operator could clearly see her. Despite this, he continued forward, which pulled her legs into the pile of rubble, and pulled her down out of view of the driver. If he'd stopped at this point, he may have only broken her legs, but he continued forward, which pulled her underneath the bulldozer. We ran towards him, and waved our arms and shouted, one activist with the megaphone. But the bulldozer driver continued forward, until Rachel was underneath the central section of the bulldozer. At this point, it was more than clear that she was nowhere but underneath the bulldozer, there was simply nowhere else she could have been, as she had not appeared on either side of the bulldozer, and could not have stayed in front of it that long without being crushed. Despite the obviousness of her position, the bulldozer began to reverse, without lifting its blade, and drug the blade over her body again. He continued to reverse until he was on the boarder strip, about 100 meters away, and left her crushed body in the sand. [/blue] I google'd it. ETA: Brave girl, REALLY stupid choice of sides to fight for. |
| I love the typical litigious American logic she used. He won't hurt ME(as opposed to the palis) or he'll get in big trouble. They are so used to American police/companies/etc... backing down rather than risking harming a hair on their chinny chin-chins, that they are dumfounded by this operators 'callous' actions. "How dare he do that!" Out of the US, means out of the reach of US tort law. |
|
Quoted: Brave girl, REALLY stupid choice of sides to fight for. I'll agree with that, brave as all hell, but made mistake. [img]http://www.palaestina.org/bilder/rachel-corrie3.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.federalobserver.com/content_images/rachel_corrie_death.jpg[/img] |
|
Quoted: [blue]Rachel Corrie (1979-2003). ETA: Brave girl, [red]REALLY stupid[/red] choice of sides to fight for. Brother at arms your killing me here! Brave? Hardly. Brave is raising a three kids as a single mom and being succesful. Brave is walking down to the recruiter and enlisting amongst the protests of your family. Brave is racing into a buring house to save someone Brave is carrying your wounded brother/sisters off the battelfeild at ANY COST! Standing in front of a bulldozer the size of an aprtment building lacks even the most remote hint of bravery. Its just plain stupid no matter which side your on. I feel ABSOLUTLY NO FEELINGS for that girl as she got EXACTLY what she deserved. [rant off] |
|
Quoted: So you think someone deserves death for practicing their 1st amendment right to protest? or is there more to it than that? fill me in. Uh, she was in ISRAEL protesting in what is essentially a WAR ZONE. What part of the First Amendment (or any amendment) of the United States Constitution applies to a US Citizen in another SOVEREIGN NATION? Answer: ZERO. When you enter another nation you play by their rules. Period. |
|
Quoted: So you think someone deserves death for practicing their 1st amendment right to protest? or is there more to it than that? fill me in. Yes there is more to it. As an American, your 1st amendment rights don't have to be respected by a foreign government in their country. If you want to go to Isreal/Palistine, you have to play by their rules. I beleive that the Isreali rules include don't support the palistinian terrorists and don't get in the way of a big A$$ bulldozer. Paraord16 Edited to add Airwolf beat me by 9 seconds. I got to learn to type faster. |
|
Quoted: So you think someone deserves death for practicing their 1st amendment right to protest? or is there more to it than that? fill me in. When a person regardless of political position "Chooses" to ignore common sense and any form of logical thinking and act in the fashion she did, yes I do. THis is not about dying for a cause its about paying for your actions. Like the girl that was protesting logging in the NW and fell from a 150 foot tree after she "disconnected her safety line". Again, if you decide to act without regard for your personal safety you pay the price. I get really tired of people using the 1st amendmant as a reason to act like an idiot. We "LIVE" by it, not behind it. Again, she got what she deserved as she made her own choice. CH |
|
You know, that pic. It doesn't really look like the corpse of somebody who's been run over, twice, by a bulldozer with the blade down. This is a lesson that rights, as we have here, are not god given, nor are they universally accepted. They only exist where people, with guns, say they do. Go outside that area and you play by others rules. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: [blue]Rachel Corrie (1979-2003). ETA: Brave girl, [red]REALLY stupid[/red] choice of sides to fight for. Brother at arms your killing me here! Brave? Hardly. Brave is raising a three kids as a single mom and being succesful. Brave is walking down to the recruiter and enlisting amongst the protests of your family. Brave is racing into a buring house to save someone Brave is carrying your wounded brother/sisters off the battelfeild at ANY COST! Standing in front of a bulldozer the size of an aprtment building lacks even the most remote hint of bravery. Its just plain stupid no matter which side your on. I feel ABSOLUTLY NO FEELINGS for that girl as she got EXACTLY what she deserved. [rant off] Worth repeating. |
|
Quoted: I agree brave but stupid . She died for something she believed in . Can you do the same thing? Your fucking kidding right? NO I couldnt, because I have the intellagence to know that if I stand in front of a bulldozer thats plowing down a building I am going to die. What good would that do? What a joke. CH |
|
Quoted: She died for something she believed in . Can you do the same thing? Hey man, everybody dies. Martyrdom is the world's easiest profession. It's what you do up to the point that you die that matters. You honor a posthumus(sp) MOH winner not because he died, but because of what he did before he died (which often caused his death). Since what she was doing up until the point of her death was protecting terrorists, she's crap. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: She died for something she believed in . Can you do the same thing? Hey man, everybody dies. Martyrdom is the world's easiest profession. It's what you do up to the point that you die that matters. You honor a posthumus(sp) MOH winner not because he died, but because of what he did before he died (which often caused his death). Since what she was doing up until the point of her death was protecting terrorists, she's crap. |
|
Quoted: I'm not kidding . I never said what she did was smart , but it was brave , and if you can't see that it is your own fault not hers. Explain to me and the others here, exaclty how what she did was brave? Is a person that puts a gun to there head and pulls the trigger brave? Wake the fuck up! There is NOTHING brave about what she did. CH |
|
Quoted: I don't believe she thought she would get ran over. She was most likely sure the dozer would stop, just like it would have if this took place in the US. She played a deadly game of chicken, and lost! exactly right! Brave?...heres her last thought...Oh my God!!!he's not stopping..Oh my God!!!...I'm stuck...OH my...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....crunch.... |
|
hmm... if it were anything like Austin Powers I, i bet it would be pretty funny to watch on streaming video. too bad it wasn't a steam roller.[;D] its a bummer ,all that college edumakation must have failed at that moment when she thought the D9 would just leave a bump. seems the pali's knew better to get the hell out of the way. on a different note...doesnt it seem weird that whoever wrote the article included the D9' serial number? |
|
How about that kid in Tinemen Square in China who stood up to the tanks. If I remember correctly he got squished too. He died for what he believed in. Was that bravery or stupidity? Being killed while fighting for what you believe in seems brave to me. Passivly getting run over by a bulldozer seems rather stupid. On the other hand that kid in China seemed pretty brave, and various missionaries who have been murdered in places like Africa and Asia over the years seemed pretty brave even though some had plenty of chances to bug out in many cases. In either case, as a parent, I wonder how one reconciles her death. Does one say, "well she died for what she believed" Or, do you say, "Damn, I thought I raised her to have more sense than that." |
|
Quoted: How about that kid in Tinemen Square in China who stood up to the tanks. If I remember correctly he got squished too. He died for what he believed in. Was that bravery or stupidity? The Chinese guy was pulled out of the way of the tank by another guy. No squishee from what I remember. The lady died stupidly. She thought she could stop the dozer by standing in front of it. She may have died because of her beliefs or because she thought she could play chicken with it. |
|
Quoted: How about that kid in Tinemen Square in China who stood up to the tanks. If I remember correctly he got squished too. He died for what he believed in. Was that bravery or stupidity? Being killed while fighting for what you believe in seems brave to me. Passivly getting run over by a bulldozer seems rather stupid. On the other hand that kid in China seemed pretty brave, and various missionaries who have been murdered in places like Africa and Asia over the years seemed pretty brave even though some had plenty of chances to bug out in many cases. In either case, as a parent, I wonder how one reconciles her death. Does one say, "well she died for what she believed" Or, do you say, "Damn, I thought I raised her to have more sense than that." You did a good job of addressing both sides of the issue but what outweighs the other? I mean is it still brave to stand and die if you have a choice? Dying while "fighting" for what you believe in can be considered brave, I will not argue. But willingly dying is nothing more then suicide. I really dont know enough about the kid in China to comment as I have seen the pictures and thats about it. But if he stood there and let that tank run over him, then it was as stupid as bulldozer girls choice to die. With regards to the missionaries you talk about, yes I think that some are brave and the work they do can be good. Comparing them to this girl is apples to oranges. I dont think any of them would willingly let you stick them in the arm with a needle filled with AIDS tantned blood because the believe in their cause. That would likely mean certain death and would be just plain stupid. That is what this girl did, she chose to die. CH |
|
Quoted: In either case, as a parent, I wonder how one reconciles her death. Does one say, "well she died for what she believed" Or, do you say, "Damn, I thought I raised her to have more sense than that." Thought this deserves its own reply. As a father of 3 I gave that exact thing some serious thought, both in regards to this girl and the one the fell from the tree I mentioned earlier. Since I havent got thru it I can only speculate, but here goes. After thinking about it I think most would use the "died for what she believed in" excuse to mask the their ture feelings, to make her death mean somthing. I personally would feel as though I let her down by not enforcing and teaching more of the value of just plain old common sense. I would feel as though I let her down because I did not teach her to tell right from wrong. Most likley I, like many others, would hide that all behind saying "she died for what she believed in". Thats the easy way for most. Saying that your own daughter was an idiot, however true, would not go over real well at a funeral. CH |
|
I have heard her mother on the radio talking about her. She is from a big time lefty family. Her mother makes her sound like some kind of hero. I know that as a parent you would not want to come across as saying I raised my kid to follow stupid causes, but to go on and on about how your kid was this great champion of lefty causes, and then died for them, really sounds heartless. Going toe to toe with a dozer over a mud hut, is not what I would call heroic. |
|
Quoted: Quoted: How about that kid in Tinemen Square in China who stood up to the tanks. If I remember correctly he got squished too. He died for what he believed in. Was that bravery or stupidity? The Chinese guy was pulled out of the way of the tank by another guy. No squishee from what I remember. And he was Executed |
|
She didn't think she would get run over. Not very brave. Just stupid. To stand in front of a tank is much different. The chinese army ain't the Israeli Army. Bet that Chinese guy thought he was going to get run over and was willing to give his life to make a point. Rachel was out fucking off with her college buddies and fucked up. boohoo. |