Posted: 4/23/2012 9:53:19 AM EDT
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI
Watch the whole video. I did find Ms. McDermott more and more hot as the video went on. 
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In the 4th Grade we were taught the "New Math". Like the Wiki Article said, it didn't last very long. Off hand it looks like the very same people that couldn't work the Original New Math properly are still at their same old games at making students flunk math.
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that example of a "cluster problem" was a cluster fuck in its solution. looks like they tried to make it way harder than what it actually is. Eggzackly. She's full of shit and (I believe, intentionally) made that mental problem much more difficult than it actually was. She's also full of shit in saying people who learn to use math this way don't get to be proficient. Quite the opposite. They learn the hows and whys of math. The old algorythm gets the answer but it's abstract as to how and can't easily be done in your head. It's necessary to learn the standard way to do larger, more complicated problems. But the TERK method is extremely valuable in everyday life because you can figure things in your head with it. |
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LOL, that's the local weather gal on the TV thingy.
http://www.q13fox.com/about/station/newsteam/mcdermott/ |
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When I learned math, those alternate approaches were viewed as shortcuts which could be useful in certain isolated situations, but which broke down rapidly in most others. When they do, the standard algorithms are the absolutely dominant fallbacks.
Love this video, sending it to everyone. Thanks, OP. |
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I have no problem with the use of a calculator being emphasized. With the exception of the most basic of math problems, a calculator will always be faster and more accurate. My sister was taught for two years to only do math with a calculator because someone in the district offices thought a calculator was the way of the future. Then we moved and her new school wanted students to actually do the work without calculators. She never caught up. It's not allowing work to be done with the tool, it's teaching to use the tool instead of the brain that was the problem. |
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Quoted: I was never taught any of those other methods, but I was using them intuitively after the 2nd grade because the standard way is so boring. Made it through a MS in Engineering, so the alternate methods seemed to have worked.  Me too I've solved many problems when I didn't bother to memorize the algorithm by pounding them out and understanding the basic arithmetic involved. BS in Mathematics
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Here is a slide presentation of the teaching methods she refers to in the video.
http://www.yorkschools.org/~kkaknes/Everyday%20Math%20Algorithms |
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I was never taught "cluster fuck method" but thats how I do larger multiplications in my head. I dont know why you need to teach that, I thought it was common sense? There it is exactly. People who are naturally inclined to think about math will develop their own reasoning methods in their head, and form their own number relationships. Math becomes less about memorizing and numbers, and it opens up into some sort of puzzle. That puzzle may be geometric/spatial to some people, it may be linguistical (i.e. the relationship between number values follows a social or language-based pattern), and some rare folks even "think" in musical terms believe it or not. There are other "methods of learning" besides those three. But the fact is that many folks are NOT inclined to think about math. In the same way that you are probably not inclined to think about many other things, math simply does not naturally interest them. The goal of education, therefore, must be one of two things: 1) Keep it simple and get them to use math, just to get along in everyday life. 2) Getting them to think about it anyhow, knowing that they will never be practitioners of the art - sort of "math appreciation" type approach. It's easy to argue that calculators have eliminated the need for "type 1" math education, since you really don't "need" math to get through life anymore. That leaves "math appreciation." And in just the same way as an art appreciation class will never make you a painter, and a music appreciation class will never make you a musician, so too a math appreciation class can never make you a mathematician. The logic is that the people inclined to study it will do so (probably in college, where real learning belongs nowadays), and the people who aren't will at least have seen some of the ideas involved so they can inform their decision to give up on it. Only problem is... now you've got kids making decisions that will affect their entire lives, parents that don't understand, and a school that just wants to pass them and get onto the next batch of students and funding. The ONLY comprehensive solution is to put well-trained, intelligent, and empathetic teachers into classrooms with similarly-abled students who are supported by their parents to learn - and then taking the chains off. Just let them go. The teachers will present the material in whatever way is best for the students, regardless of curricula, and the students will drive the teacher at the pace they can handle. But then you have to accept teacher autonomy and learning level seggregation. Neither of which we can stomach as a society right now. So you live with what you get. |
Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Some people spend a lifetime resisting such removal. |
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In the OP video, the ability to solve math problems relies upon the student knowing "friendly" math relationships, such as 3x20=60 and 13-6=7.
Where and how do these students develop these skills? Do they still have to do rote memorization of basic math tables, such as 2x1, 2x2, 2x3 and etc? |
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Without underlying understanding, there is no true understanding. Terc and everyday teach some nice mental math shortcuts, but if you cannot do it properly, those methods will fade. It's not a shortcut. It's the ability to break down, rearrange and organize a problem into one that is easily, mentally doable. It lets kids "see" the numbers as values instead of the abstract symbols they are. We home school our kids. I, generally, teach math, especially when they come to a new concept with which they're having trouble, because I'm good at approaching the task of getting someone to understand something from a lot of different directions. The boy was having trouble with begining algebra because he is the type who has to understand the hows and whys of what's going on before he's comfortable. He'll never accept the answer,"Just because it works that way". I wound up bringin up a balance scale and explained that it was the equals sign. We used blocks and glued some together to make "unknowns". Once he saw how it worked, he breezed through it. Same with breaking down larger values to simpler terms so as to multiply. It lets kids think and learn about what's actually happening instead of, " You plug the numbers in here....do the calculating thusly and you'll get the correct answer".....Yeah, but why? |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Some people spend a lifetime resisting such removal. We're probably all guilty of that, to some degree, on some subjects.
I think one of the biggest hurdles in education is that a really good teacher is a rare thing. The best thing to teach a kid is how to learn and not just have them memorize things. But in the factory we call public education, there is no efficient way to do a "one size fits all" method of teaching them to learn. Nor is there enough true teachers to go around. So, we get baby sitters who are just competent enough to get the kids to soak up enough knowledge that they can function in society. |
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way.
I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. |
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg |
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that example of a "cluster problem" was a cluster fuck in its solution. looks like they tried to make it way harder than what it actually is. People do not all think in a uniform way, you start with what is familiar (what you are certain of) and work from there breaking things down via 5's or 10's and tacking on the leftovers for instance. Should cultivate different methods if needed and score for answers not method of attaining said answer. |
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg I'm with you there. I took all the accelerated math bullshit in high school, then had to sit through Algebra 1, trig, some sort of pre-calculus course, and a really fucked up logic course that when like "if a not a not c < not a not c if a" in college. The only thing it all really made me realize was how much I hated the shit and was definitely not going to pursue a career even remotely related to any of it. Too bad, I tinker with so much stuff, I probably would have been a hell of an engineer. All of that algebra, precalc, logic, has never meant a damned thing since I graduated. I've used a little trig, geometry, and some basic math and that's it. |
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There it is exactly. People who are naturally inclined to think about math will develop their own reasoning methods in their head, and form their own number relationships. Math becomes less about memorizing and numbers, and it opens up into some sort of puzzle. That puzzle may be geometric/spatial to some people, it may be linguistical (i.e. the relationship between number values follows a social or language-based pattern), and some rare folks even "think" in musical terms believe it or not. There are other "methods of learning" besides those three. <snip> So you live with what you get. I grew up thinking I was bad at math because I did these things. Figuring out shortcuts and cheats actually taught me more math than many of my teachers (especially the guys who split coaching and mathing ... Highschool basketball coach was also the geometry teacher, what a waste that guy was). But trying to teach that kind of thinking to kids is even more difficult than the old brute-force approach we learned. When his school started in with experimental methods for teaching when my oldest was in 3rd or 4th grade, I tried to show him how easy math could be if he just added 16 layers of complexity and could count to 9 on one hand and 90 on the other. That just made things worse. I suspect that I'm not a good teacher |
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In the 4th Grade we were taught the "New Math". Like the Wiki Article said, it didn't last very long. Off hand it looks like the very same people that couldn't work the Original New Math properly are still at their same old games at making students flunk math. Yep it WAS 4th grade that got me all fucked up with math. I was a straight A honor student till 4th grade then they changed the way they taught math .... I could get the answer but not the problem. 
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg I'm with you there. I took all the accelerated math bullshit in high school, then had to sit through Algebra 1, trig, some sort of pre-calculus course, and a really fucked up logic course that when like "if a not a not c < not a not c if a" in college. The only thing it all really made me realize was how much I hated the shit and was definitely not going to pursue a career even remotely related to any of it. Too bad, I tinker with so much stuff, I probably would have been a hell of an engineer. All of that algebra, precalc, logic, has never meant a damned thing since I graduated. I've used a little trig, geometry, and some basic math and that's it. Yeah exactly they focus too much on this bullshit math that most people won't ever use. I use geometry, sometimes trig, and add, sub, mult, division on a daily basis. They only taught me enough of that to get my through algebra. If I am framing and trying to figure out what the fuck angles I am trying to get I sure as shit am not gonna use algebra, except maybe the simple shit. This has really hurt me in that I am not as awesome at some of the basic important maths as I could have been. The school system should be modeled after the germans. You have a trade school tract, college tract, and I think an engineering tract. We had a German exchange student my junior year and he was fucking brilliant at math, he was also in the engineering tract. No sense in forcing kids to graduate hs up to standards for college if they don't desire that type of situation. |
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg Yeah I am way serious. Come hangout with me doing construction, building fence, bucking hay, driving tractor, and meching and you will see how little I use all the bullshit math and actually could use and do use the basic maths that seem to be forgotten by the school system. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Ridgerunner, I'll concede your point about ignorance (above in blue). It would be more accurate to say public school PERPETUATED ignorance. As for teaching kids to do math in their heads, I never criticized it. Actually I think it's a great idea, IF and only if the kids are provided the fall back tools (ie standard algorithm) for when they can't do the problem in their heads. The fact is that public schools are failing our kids. The evidence is all around us, and we see it damn near everyday. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic, that was formerly taught in grammar and high school (huh?, why did they call it grammar school), is now taught in remedial classes in "Junior" colleges. I know it's anecdotal, but here is a recent experience: I take the wife to Dairy Queen and buy her a cone costing $2.25. I pull up to the window (drive through) and hand the young lady (later learned shes a high school senior) a five dollar bill and a quarter. She hands me back a dollar bill and some coins. I tell her the change is not right. She tells me the register is broken and what she tried to give me is what another young girl working with her said was right (so much for collaborative math). When I asked her to stop and think about it she got pissed and told me to simply tell her what I should get for change. Sad, but a true story. And we live in one of the most sought after school districts in the area. Ridgerunner, sorry if I'm goring your ox, but our (USA) public school system is, on the whole, a failure and a disgrace. Kids are GRADUATING high school and they are barely literate and and can't do simple math. And this is in middle class schools. What is going on in the inner-city schools is simply criminal. FWIW, I am a product of the public school system (K-12 mid 50s through 60s). It was a time when they taught "standard algorithms" and is was a grind where you could and would be left behind unlike the present. I learned to hate school (only an average student), but I learned to read and write and do some math. And on the strength of that basic education, some selected junior college courses, and personal research (electronics) I was able to work my way up to an engineer's position, title and pay in the semi-conductor industry (relatively few non-degreed engineers existed as process and equipment engineers, but there were some). Yeah, I really did "rocket science" (literally, some of it may still be in orbit), on only a public school education. But that was in the bad old days when teachers didn't box so clever, and kids were expected to be know something to graduate. My apologies to Ridgerunner and anyone else my opinions may offend. We can argue methodologies all day. What you can't dispute are results. It is simply an objective reality that we spend more and more on public education only to achieve declining results year after year. We now spend more per student than almost all "1st world" nations, second only to what Sweden? Yet we rank below 20 some others in math and science. I heard a stat the other day, and can't speak to it's validity. Is it true that India graduates more engineers that all our graduates combined? You don't have to have Gypsy blood to see that we are in a bad way and at the heart of the problem is our school system. YMMV. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Ridgerunner, I'll concede your point about ignorance (above in blue). It would be more accurate to say public school PERPETUATED ignorance. As for teaching kids to do math in their heads, I never criticized it. Actually I think it's a great idea, IF and only if the kids are provided the fall back tools (ie standard algorithm) for when they can't do the problem in their heads. The fact is that public schools are failing our kids. The evidence is all around us, and we see it damn near everyday. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic, that was formerly taught in grammar and high school (huh?, why did they call it grammar school), is now taught in remedial classes in "Junior" colleges. I know it's anecdotal, but here is a recent experience: I take the wife to Dairy Queen and buy her a cone costing $2.25. I pull up to the window (drive through) and hand the young lady (later learned shes a high school senior) a five dollar bill and a quarter. She hands me back a dollar bill and some coins. I tell her the change is not right. She tells me the register is broken and what she tried to give me is what another young girl working with her said was right (so much for collaborative math). When I asked her to stop and think about it she got pissed and told me to simply tell her what I should get for change. Sad, but a true story. And we live in one of the most sought after school districts in the area. Ridgerunner, sorry if I'm goring your ox, but our (USA) public school system is, on the whole, a failure and a disgrace. Kids are GRADUATING high school and they are barely literate and and can't do simple math. And this is in middle class schools. What is going on in the inner-city schools is simply criminal. FWIW, I am a product of the public school system (K-12 mid 50s through 60s). It was a time when they taught "standard algorithms" and is was a grind where you could and would be left behind unlike the present. I learned to hate school (only an average student), but I learned to read and write and do some math. And on the strength of that basic education, some selected junior college courses, and personal research (electronics) I was able to work my way up to an engineer's position, title and pay in the semi-conductor industry (relatively few non-degreed engineers existed as process and equipment engineers, but there were some). Yeah, I really did "rocket science" (literally, some of it may still be in orbit), on only a public school education. But that was in the bad old days when teachers didn't box so clever, and kids were expected to be know something to graduate. My apologies to Ridgerunner and anyone else my opinions may offend. We can argue methodologies all day. What you can't dispute are results. It is simply an objective reality that we spend more and more on public education only to achieve declining results year after year. We now spend more per student than almost all "1st world" nations, second only to what Sweden? Yet we rank below 20 some others in math and science. I heard a stat the other day, and can't speak to it's validity. Is it true that India graduates more engineers that all our graduates combined. You don't have to have Gypsy blood to see that we are in a bad way and at the heart of the problem is our school system. YMMV. The engineers I have met are smart as fuck at the numbers and theories. When it comes time for the practical application of knowledge it is like two pigs fucking in a tow sack. They really don't have any. I would be willing to bet money if you put an engineer or designer for a tractor in the same room as me, I could fix a specific problem before he could. Not a slam on engineers by the way.They are way smarter than I ever will be. I'm sure they could tell me everything I needed to know about something in theory, but practice is a different story. We need engineers, by I'm tired of the love affair with engineers and people saying they are the best fucking thing on gods green earth. My grandpa never ever attended high school, but if you wanted something made it, or something fixed he could do it. Some of the early engine swaps such a cummins into whatever you wanted. He was fabbing up mounts, brackets, and adapters in the 70's and 80's. |
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg Yeah I am way serious. Come hangout with me doing construction, building fence, bucking hay, driving tractor, and meching and you will see how little I use all the bullshit math and actually could use and do use the basic maths that seem to be forgotten by the school system. I understand what you mean, but most higher level math courses primarily test your critical thinking and problem solving ability. They expect you will dump all of the trig identities from your memory once you leave college, but while you're there, they expect you to be able to use what you've learned to solve problems. Unless you're studying engineering. I always end up integrating something
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Half of the math taught in school is bull shit. For most people they don't need calculus or anything like that. It should be a choice as to what you want to learn. For what its worth I typically can get by without calc. Its easier for me to take longer and do it my way. I watched a girl yesterday use a calculator for this simply math. $20 bill, $10.75=$9.25 change.
That shit is way more important. notsureifsrs.jpg Yeah I am way serious. Come hangout with me doing construction, building fence, bucking hay, driving tractor, and meching and you will see how little I use all the bullshit math and actually could use and do use the basic maths that seem to be forgotten by the school system. I understand what you mean, but most higher level math courses primarily test your critical thinking and problem solving ability. They expect you will dump all of the trig identities from your memory once you leave college, but while you're there, they expect you to be able to use what you've learned to solve problems. Unless you're studying engineering. I always end up integrating something The issue is I don't need to know that shit for what I am interested in. Truck won't start. You need, spark, air, fuel. One of those 3 things is why it isn't starting. Combine ain't cutting, 9/10 times your sickle is broken. I could really use more knowledge in volume/area. It is very helpful to know how many bales of hay you have in storage, how much sq/ft you have left, and how many you have on your tractor. I will be honest fractions are the death of me. I was struggling with them even in school and was told its ok you don't need to learn, algebra doesn't really use them and you can use a calculator anyway. |
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this is probably why so many have difficulty passing math. http://www.math.harvard.edu/piday/2008/pi-m.png 5th graders, dude... 5th graders. |
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this is probably why so many have difficulty passing math. http://www.math.harvard.edu/piday/2008/pi-m.png Hahahaa.
Actually one of the reasons I took pre calc in hs. There was a hot girl I was trying to bang and I needed more time around her to work my skills. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Ridgerunner, I'll concede your point about ignorance (above in blue). It would be more accurate to say public school PERPETUATED ignorance. As for teaching kids to do math in their heads, I never criticized it. Actually I think it's a great idea, IF and only if the kids are provided the fall back tools (ie standard algorithm) for when they can't do the problem in their heads. The fact is that public schools are failing our kids. The evidence is all around us, and we see it damn near everyday. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic, that was formerly taught in grammar and high school (huh?, why did they call it grammar school), is now taught in remedial classes in "Junior" colleges. I know it's anecdotal, but here is a recent experience: I take the wife to Dairy Queen and buy her a cone costing $2.25. I pull up to the window (drive through) and hand the young lady (later learned shes a high school senior) a five dollar bill and a quarter. She hands me back a dollar bill and some coins. I tell her the change is not right. She tells me the register is broken and what she tried to give me is what another young girl working with her said was right (so much for collaborative math). When I asked her to stop and think about it she got pissed and told me to simply tell her what I should get for change. Sad, but a true story. And we live in one of the most sought after school districts in the area. Ridgerunner, sorry if I'm goring your ox, but our (USA) public school system is, on the whole, a failure and a disgrace. Kids are GRADUATING high school and they are barely literate and and can't do simple math. And this is in middle class schools. What is going on in the inner-city schools is simply criminal. FWIW, I am a product of the public school system (K-12 mid 50s through 60s). It was a time when they taught "standard algorithms" and is was a grind where you could and would be left behind unlike the present. I learned to hate school (only an average student), but I learned to read and write and do some math. And on the strength of that basic education, some selected junior college courses, and personal research (electronics) I was able to work my way up to an engineer's position, title and pay in the semi-conductor industry (relatively few non-degreed engineers existed as process and equipment engineers, but there were some). Yeah, I really did "rocket science" (literally, some of it may still be in orbit), on only a public school education. But that was in the bad old days when teachers didn't box so clever, and kids were expected to be know something to graduate. My apologies to Ridgerunner and anyone else my opinions may offend. We can argue methodologies all day. What you can't dispute are results. It is simply an objective reality that we spend more and more on public education only to achieve declining results year after year. We now spend more per student than almost all "1st world" nations, second only to what Sweden? Yet we rank below 20 some others in math and science. I heard a stat the other day, and can't speak to it's validity. Is it true that India graduates more engineers that all our graduates combined. You don't have to have Gypsy blood to see that we are in a bad way and at the heart of the problem is our school system. YMMV. The engineers I have met are smart as fuck at the numbers and theories. When it comes time for the practical application of knowledge it is like two pigs fucking in a tow sack. They really don't have any. I would be willing to bet money if you put an engineer or designer for a tractor in the same room as me, I could fix a specific problem before he could. Not a slam on engineers by the way.They are way smarter than I ever will be. I'm sure they could tell me everything I needed to know about something in theory, but practice is a different story. We need engineers, by I'm tired of the love affair with engineers and people saying they are the best fucking thing on gods green earth. My grandpa never ever attended high school, but if you wanted something made it, or something fixed he could do it. Some of the early engine swaps such a cummins into whatever you wanted. He was fabbing up mounts, brackets, and adapters in the 70's and 80's. And Chromekilla hit's on another of my pet peeves. The diploma mills our institutions of higher learning have become. Our universities crank out teachers that can't teach, engineers that can't engineer anything more complicated than a kegger and similar failures. The college system is a money game that sells dreams, and diplomas to people with ZERO aptitude for the given field. When I was in management in the chip industry I had to hire from this pool of people and I'll tell you it was a sad endeavor. The cream will rise to the top, but more in spite of the system than because of it. |
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Got a buddy who is an engineer. He does Vedic math whenever we have a math problem we ask him and POOF 3 seconds later he has the answer without a pencil or paper. How much common sense does he have? Not a dig just curious because brilliance and common sense/social skills are usually mutually exclusive. |
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Thank you for posting that video.
I now understand the reason behind the ignorance of certain young people I have met. And if you want to know the consequences to public school generated ignorance, read this book: Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and Its Consequences (Amazon link) Thanks again for educating me. So, teaching kids how to do multiplication in their heads and understand why and how it works is the same as keeping them ignorant? BTW ignorance is not generated. It is a state of being that everyone starts with and is removed through learning. Ridgerunner, I'll concede your point about ignorance (above in blue). It would be more accurate to say public school PERPETUATED ignorance. As for teaching kids to do math in their heads, I never criticized it. Actually I think it's a great idea, IF and only if the kids are provided the fall back tools (ie standard algorithm) for when they can't do the problem in their heads. The fact is that public schools are failing our kids. The evidence is all around us, and we see it damn near everyday. Basic reading, writing and arithmetic, that was formerly taught in grammar and high school (huh?, why did they call it grammar school), is now taught in remedial classes in "Junior" colleges. I know it's anecdotal, but here is a recent experience: I take the wife to Dairy Queen and buy her a cone costing $2.25. I pull up to the window (drive through) and hand the young lady (later learned shes a high school senior) a five dollar bill and a quarter. She hands me back a dollar bill and some coins. I tell her the change is not right. She tells me the register is broken and what she tried to give me is what another young girl working with her said was right (so much for collaborative math). When I asked her to stop and think about it she got pissed and told me to simply tell her what I should get for change. Sad, but a true story. And we live in one of the most sought after school districts in the area. Ridgerunner, sorry if I'm goring your ox, but our (USA) public school system is, on the whole, a failure and a disgrace. Kids are GRADUATING high school and they are barely literate and and can't do simple math. And this is in middle class schools. What is going on in the inner-city schools is simply criminal. FWIW, I am a product of the public school system (K-12 mid 50s through 60s). It was a time when they taught "standard algorithms" and is was a grind where you could and would be left behind unlike the present. I learned to hate school (only an average student), but I learned to read and write and do some math. And on the strength of that basic education, some selected junior college courses, and personal research (electronics) I was able to work my way up to an engineer's position, title and pay in the semi-conductor industry (relatively few non-degreed engineers existed as process and equipment engineers, but there were some). Yeah, I really did "rocket science" (literally, some of it may still be in orbit), on only a public school education. But that was in the bad old days when teachers didn't box so clever, and kids were expected to be know something to graduate. My apologies to Ridgerunner and anyone else my opinions may offend. We can argue methodologies all day. What you can't dispute are results. It is simply an objective reality that we spend more and more on public education only to achieve declining results year after year. We now spend more per student than almost all "1st world" nations, second only to what Sweden? Yet we rank below 20 some others in math and science. I heard a stat the other day, and can't speak to it's validity. Is it true that India graduates more engineers that all our graduates combined. You don't have to have Gypsy blood to see that we are in a bad way and at the heart of the problem is our school system. YMMV. The engineers I have met are smart as fuck at the numbers and theories. When it comes time for the practical application of knowledge it is like two pigs fucking in a tow sack. They really don't have any. I would be willing to bet money if you put an engineer or designer for a tractor in the same room as me, I could fix a specific problem before he could. Not a slam on engineers by the way.They are way smarter than I ever will be. I'm sure they could tell me everything I needed to know about something in theory, but practice is a different story. We need engineers, by I'm tired of the love affair with engineers and people saying they are the best fucking thing on gods green earth. My grandpa never ever attended high school, but if you wanted something made it, or something fixed he could do it. Some of the early engine swaps such a cummins into whatever you wanted. He was fabbing up mounts, brackets, and adapters in the 70's and 80's. And Chromekilla hit's on another of my pet peeves. The diploma mills our institutions of higher learning have become. Our universities crank out teachers that can't teach, engineers that can't engineer anything more complicated than a kegger and similar failures. The college system is a money game that sells dreams, and diplomas to people with ZERO aptitude for the given field. When I was in management in the chip industry I had to hire from this pool of people and I'll tell you it was a sad endeavor. The cream will rise to the top, but more in spite of the system than because of it. Yep it is all a game. There are several good documentaries on netflix that display this. They reference that ivy schools are best for networking, for profit colleges are scams, and public universities are mostly broken too. |
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Quoted:I will be honest fractions are the death of me. I was struggling with them even in school and was told its ok you don't need to learn, algebra doesn't really use them and you can use a calculator anyway.
Who told you algebra doesn't use fractions? That person is either a liar or outright stupid. |
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Quoted:I will be honest fractions are the death of me. I was struggling with them even in school and was told its ok you don't need to learn, algebra doesn't really use them and you can use a calculator anyway.
Who told you algebra doesn't use fractions? That person is either a liar or outright stupid. My 5th grade teacher Mrs. Hansen told me that in high school I could simply use a calculator and convert over to decimals. I can do basic fractions such as 1/2+1/2, but anything like 3/8+1/2 makes it take a while. I typically whip out a calculator and do decimals as it is much quicker for me. Interestingly enough in the 1st grade I was at a 9th grade reading level. I read all the fucking time. We had a program called accelerated reader where you read books and take tests on the material. Higher level books are worth more points. I won overall points for my k-8 school of 200 from 1-8th grade. It was done every quarter (tally of points) and you got $50 for winning, and a huge ass candy bar. So I made about $200 per year just from my reading ability. I really have no idea why, but today I don't really care for reading. I'd rather be doing hands on stuff. I had such a talent and don't really use it anymore. |
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this is probably why so many have difficulty passing math. http://www.math.harvard.edu/piday/2008/pi-m.png Hahahaa.
Actually one of the reasons I took pre calc in hs. There was a hot girl I was trying to bang and I needed more time around her to work my skills. YUP this happens a lot.
I use advanced math every single day in my job and I use basic math: add sub multiplication division, geometry, volume, and some calc for almost everything I do otherwise. If you cook, go to the grocery store and make a purchase, estimate time or schedule keeping, or operate a cell phone or the computer you in some way are using math. I think NEW math was the down fall of our education system. When I teach my kids the way we did used to do it they understand very quickly. More so than what is in their crappy books. Even in the trades you have to use math of some type. Everything is computerized. Probably one of the most important things we can teach our kids. I am horrible with spelling and grammar. It is just not my thing at all. |
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this is probably why so many have difficulty passing math. http://www.math.harvard.edu/piday/2008/pi-m.png 5th graders, dude... 5th graders. Like the 5th grade boys don't crush? And they get introduces to pi in math in the 5th grade.
Ps...not a DUDE 
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