Warning

 

Close
Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Cancel Confirm
AR15.COM
6/30/2009 9:59:41 PM EDT
Ok, so I was wondering if someone could help me with this problem.

A light source is located over the center of a circular table of diameter 4 feet. Find the height h of the light source such that the illumination I at the perimeter of the table is maximum if I= k(sin(alpha))/(s^2), where s is the slant height, alpha is the angle at which the light strikes the table, and k is a constant.

6/30/2009 10:02:02 PM EDT
[#1]
87


Maybe possible for me with pic
6/30/2009 10:06:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
87


Maybe possible for me with pic


If i had a pic I would give it to you...
Sadly I do not
6/30/2009 10:13:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Ive got one wrote out, sadly Im just through my first year of college. But maybe with a buddys help it can be done
6/30/2009 10:14:35 PM EDT
[#4]



Quoted:


Ive got one wrote out, sadly Im just through my first year of college. But maybe with a buddys help it can be done


Me too. I'll hopefully be better at this crap after another year or two.




 
6/30/2009 10:26:01 PM EDT
[#5]
If the light is emitting in all directions, then the greatest intensity is when s is smallest, and so h should be 0?  Or am I missing something?
6/30/2009 10:29:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Carry the 2
6/30/2009 10:29:35 PM EDT
[#7]
well im assuming you are an engineering or physics student. I personally would make a computer program or even using excel and changing my variables s and alpha until illumination is a maximum.

I would start out with making alpha some reasonable arbitrary angle and then setting up a plot/graph "I vs s." So the maximum on the curve should be your optimal height for that given angle. Going further, you could try again both increasing and decreasing alpha and seeing if illumination increases (or improves). Essentially I would solve it using an iterative process. If you are an engineering student, I would use matlab, fortran, C, or excel. It would be pretty easy i think if you follow along with what i mentioned.
6/30/2009 10:35:06 PM EDT
[#8]
Since k is a constant, it does not matter what it is. Assume it is 1 to keep things simple.

sin(alpha) = h/s (draw a picture)

The equation then simplifies to:
I = k(sin(alpha))/(s^2)
I = 1(h/s)/(s^2)
I = s/(s^2 * h)
I = 1/s*h

The rest of the math is yours.

Assuming you gave us the correct equation, the lower the light the greater the intensity. When h––> ZERO, the intensity approaches infinity.

Please check the equation.  
6/30/2009 10:41:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Since k is a constant, it does not matter what it is. Assume it is 1 to keep things simple.

sin(alpha) = h/s (draw a picture)

The equation then simplifies to:
I = k(sin(alpha))/(s^2)
I = 1(h/s)/(s^2)
I = s/(s^2 * h)
I = 1/s*h

You got it from there?


FAIL :-)

i = k(h/s)/s^2
i = kh/s^3

so what use is this?  s depends on h.
6/30/2009 10:43:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since k is a constant, it does not matter what it is. Assume it is 1 to keep things simple.

sin(alpha) = h/s (draw a picture)

The equation then simplifies to:
I = k(sin(alpha))/(s^2)
I = 1(h/s)/(s^2)
I = s/(s^2 * h)
I = 1/s*h

You got it from there?


FAIL :-)

i = k(h/s)/s^2
i = kh/s^3

so what use is this?  s depends on h.


i = kh/s^3  correct

s = sqrt(h^2 + r^2) where r = diameter of table = 2 feet.

I = k h/(h^2 + 4)^3

Maxmimize h = take derivative and set = 0

d/dh of h(h^2 + 4)^-3/2

= (h^2 +4)^-3/2 +h(-3/2)(2h)(h^2 + 4)^-5/2 = 0

simplify into a fraction
then choose the numerator = 0 = 4 - 2h^2
2h^2 = 4
h^2 = 2
h = sqrt(2) ~ 1.4 ft
6/30/2009 10:50:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:

FAIL :-)

i = k(h/s)/s^2
i = kh/s^3

so what use is this?  s depends on h.
D'oh!!  You are right. I'm rusty and made a basic math error.

To answer your question -
Plot the equation and you'll find a max value of I. If this were differential (beginning) calc, take the derivative of the equation and set it to zero. That will be a max or a min of the graph.
The nature of this problem pretty much assures us that it will be a max.
6/30/2009 10:51:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Since k is a constant, it does not matter what it is. Assume it is 1 to keep things simple.

sin(alpha) = h/s (draw a picture)

The equation then simplifies to:
I = k(sin(alpha))/(s^2)
I = 1(h/s)/(s^2)
I = s/(s^2 * h)
I = 1/s*h

You got it from there?


FAIL :-)

i = k(h/s)/s^2
i = kh/s^3

so what use is this?  s depends on h.


i = kh/s^3  correct

s = sqrt(h^2 + r^2) where r = diameter of table = 2 feet.

I = k h/(h^2 + 4)^3



i = kh/(h^2+4)^(3/2)

Now, to find the maximum I,

fire up Mathematica and take the first derivative of i with respect to h.

Solve for 0's
6/30/2009 10:54:32 PM EDT
[#13]
well im assuming you are an engineering or physics student. I personally would make a computer program or even using excel and changing my variables s and alpha until illumination is a maximum.

I would start out with making alpha some reasonable arbitrary angle and then setting up a plot/graph "I vs s." So the maximum on the curve should be your optimal height for that given angle. Going further, you could try again both increasing and decreasing alpha and seeing if illumination increases (or improves). Essentially I would solve it using an iterative process. If you are an engineering student, I would use matlab, fortran, C, or excel. It would be pretty easy i think if you follow along with what i mentioned.


adding to what i said above, and after rereading the problem, i have one question to ask, is k a constant that is given or what? Im not sure what exactly k is for in the problem. I am also seeing the problem as a 2 part problem that involves trial and error.

If i am understanding what s represents, it is the distance from the light source itself to the perimeter of the table (in other words the hypotenuse of "triangle"). If so i would use trig and find a s value and angle that satisfies the condition for the adjacent side of the triangle, which would be the radius of the table. After doing that, then plug in your s and alpha angles to your original equations and see what your illumin. is. Then try again with a smaller and larger alpha and see whether I increases or decreases based on s increasing. In other words if you increased alpha and found I to be higher than your first trial, then repeat with an angle higher then your previous alpha. You should eventually converge to an optimal I for a given I and alpha, which using trig will give you h.

One note on the angle alpha, is im not sure if the angle is from the vertical to the "light" or from the table to the "light", if that makes any sense.
6/30/2009 10:56:22 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
well im assuming you are an engineering or physics student. I personally would make a computer program or even using excel and changing my variables s and alpha until illumination is a maximum.

I would start out with making alpha some reasonable arbitrary angle and then setting up a plot/graph "I vs s." So the maximum on the curve should be your optimal height for that given angle. Going further, you could try again both increasing and decreasing alpha and seeing if illumination increases (or improves). Essentially I would solve it using an iterative process. If you are an engineering student, I would use matlab, fortran, C, or excel. It would be pretty easy i think if you follow along with what i mentioned.


adding to what i said above, and after rereading the problem, i have one question to ask, is k a constant that is given or what? Im not sure what exactly k is for in the problem. I am also seeing the problem as a 2 part problem that involves trial and error.

If i am understanding what s represents, it is the distance from the light source itself to the perimeter of the table (in other words the hypotenuse of "triangle"). If so i would use trig and find a s value and angle that satisfies the condition for the adjacent side of the triangle, which would be the radius of the table. After doing that, then plug in your s and alpha angles to your original equations and see what your illumin. is. Then try again with a smaller and larger alpha and see whether I increases or decreases based on s increasing. In other words if you increased alpha and found I to be higher than your first trial, then repeat with an angle higher then your previous alpha. You should eventually converge to an optimal I for a given I and alpha, which using trig will give you h.

One note on the angle alpha, is im not sure if the angle is from the vertical to the "light" or from the table to the "light", if that makes any sense.


isotropic radiation is spherical
I = power/4 pi r^2 (power spread over surface area of sphere)

Here r is slant range s

the constant k absorbs the power/4pi terms into one for easier manipulation.
6/30/2009 10:56:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Thanks everyone

7/1/2009 2:21:48 AM EDT
[#16]
I want to thank all the OP for picking my brain and thank all who responded, makes sense to me but I haven't done complex math in years.