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Posted: 1/26/2021 4:56:23 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Small carbide burr on a 1/4” air grinder. Cut the pin in half lengthwise from the inside. That would work, messy though. You're going home covered in man glitter 
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Posted: 1/26/2021 4:58:36 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would work, messy though. You're going home covered in man glitter It sucks. Did it last week. Stabby glitter blows 
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:00:32 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/127998/download__2__jpg-1797816.JPG Can't be stuck if it's liquid. 
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:02:39 PM EST
[#4]
Run a brand new drill at very slow rpm with lots of thick oil and it will drill out.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:05:47 PM EST
[#5]
Center drill all the way through from the open side using the roll pin itself as a guide.
Then drill from the back side to make clearance to drive it out. eta: Oh, never mind. I see you can't access the other side. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:09:46 PM EST
[#6]
What kind of metal is the pin in? The metal the roll pin is made of?
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:26:14 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wonder if an easy out would grab it? This was my thought. It's a straight shot w/plenty of room. EZ Out should worky. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 5:37:25 PM EST
[#8]
Carbide ball
You could also take a torch to it to take the heat treat out of it and then drill it out. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 6:44:41 PM EST
[#9]
How about tap the hole 5/16" by whatever, wrench in a shoulder bolt with red Locktite, cut off the head of the shoulder bolt and call it a day?
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Posted: 1/26/2021 7:50:17 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This works! Just be sure to try it a couple of times on a piece of scrap. It will give you an idea of how much you need to turn the welder down. It wont do any good if you melt the rod into the hole  Gotta be fast! |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:01:34 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like a masonry or glass cutting bit? Aren't they likely to shatter if they get caught like a normal hss bit? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: At that diameter I would probably drill them out with a brazed carbide tip bit and a hand drill. Like a masonry or glass cutting bit? Aren't they likely to shatter if they get caught like a normal hss bit? It takes some finesse in your feed but it can be done. Down side is if you do lose the carbide tip your blind hole is now even harder to clear out, but it's low risk (to me, because I've done it vs the welding electrode anneal idea which is pretty good). Lowest risk idea is finding a cap screw that will thread in on friction. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:18:01 PM EST
[#12]
Quoted: fill the hole with grease then get a pin the size of the inside of the roll pin, tap the pin into the hole and hopefully the grease will drive out the pin. thats how you remove a throw out bearing. Quoted: I'll give this a try. I haven't had good luck using this method to get a pilot bearing out of a crankshaft (I ended up breaking up the bearing to get it out. Lol). I'll try it today for the sake of trying though. I use wet newspaper or paper towels for this method instead of grease. Less mess. Works wonders on pilot bearings/bushings. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:21:31 PM EST
[#13]
On the welder trick: I was always taught never to adjust amperage live, because it destroys the potentiometer on the welder (arcing across). Only adjust amperage when NOT currently welding. Thoughts?
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:30:20 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the welder trick: I was always taught never to adjust amperage live, because it destroys the potentiometer on the welder (arcing across). Only adjust amperage when NOT currently welding. Thoughts? Does your neighbor have a welder you can borrow? 
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:33:46 PM EST
[#15]
It's a split pin?
Can you get an awl/spike/small chisel under one side of the split, hammer it in (lifting the edge of the pin away from the hole and towards its own center) far enough that it removes the tension once the awl has been removed, and you can just pull it out with pliers (on the now lifted corner)? ETA: Sounds like the little old lady with the COMBLOC weapon below me is on exactly the same page. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:35:50 PM EST
[#16]
I just did something like this on a nuclear submarine hydraulic valve the other day.
It was a roll pin stuck inside a bore. I used my air motor with an 8” long tiny ass carbide ball. I just worked one side and was able to fold it in half towards itself and pull it out. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:37:16 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does your neighbor have a welder you can borrow?  |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:38:32 PM EST
[#18]
This is a situation where an assortment of carbide burrs is worth it's weight in gold. Grind through one side of the roll pin and use a punch to break it loose.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:50:01 PM EST
[#19]
Get a punch that fit snug inside the center, fill the center with grease and sharply tap the punch into the hole. The hydraulic pressure will force out the roll pin. You will need to do it a few times to get it totally out and lay a rag over it to stop grease from going everywhere.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:52:24 PM EST
[#20]
Whatever you do, once it's out and this is all over, replace the damn roll pin with some mild steel machined rod. Strong enough to prevent rotation but you'll be able to drill and tap to unfuck this engineer's nightmare. Brass and hardened steel are also options. Brass is chewy but comes in high-tolerance rods, and hardened steel can be shattered and extracted.
But the burr idea on a die grinder is probably your best bet. No Chinesium either. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 8:56:33 PM EST
[#21]
Try the grease method again, but not with grease. Use white bread. I've done this before, and it's much cleaner than the grease method, but works just as good. Just keep jamming bread in there, and it will come out.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:04:03 PM EST
[#22]
I know it sounds crazy.
Take bread and a punch that fits snug in the roll pin hole. Mash the bread into the hole and keep machining. You can use putty too. Fill and keep filling. Once full use hammer to smash in with flat nose punch then fill some more. The hydraulic pressure will push the pin out. Edit to add beat by two others lol. I was on page one! |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:12:41 PM EST
[#23]
Quoted: For the second time in two days, I've encountered broken roll pins in blind holes. They're broken far enough in the hole that welding something to the pin isn't an option. Roll pins are hardened enough that drilling them isn't an option.(maybe with a carbide tool in a mag drill, but that's beyond my means at this point) I've been getting by using a roll pin that fits the hole in the roll pin and sleeving the other component with a roll pin, but I'd prefer to fix it the right way if it's doable. Drilling the hole all the way through isn't an option due to it's location. Let's hear some suggestions! Is there enough meat in the broken roll pin to tap it, run a screw in and pull it out? |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:27:25 PM EST
[#24]
A roll pin in a blind hole is just silly. How the hell were you suppose to get it out even if it wasn't broken. This just doesn't calculate.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:33:46 PM EST
[#25]
That looks like a spring pin, different than a roll pin. A roll pin is stronger, might want to replace with one of those once you get the spring pin out.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:37:44 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A roll pin in a blind hole is just silly. How the hell were you suppose to get it out even if it wasn't broken. This just doesn't calculate. I’ve seen it on speed controls for mills. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:49:16 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty awesome. I'm not sure how low my stick welder goes though. The lowest mark is at 80 amps Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Found this online, might work out cleaner than the torch. "Another way to heat and anneal a roll pin is as follows........ Take a small stick welding rod and knock off the flux at the end. Grind it a bit so it'll go into the hole in the pin tight. Turn the amperage all the way down on the welder. Hook the stinger to the rod and gradually turn the amperage up, giving the pin time to heat up. You can probably get a 1/8 pin red hot with 30-40 amps at most. Once its hot, gradually reduce the amperage so it doesnt cool fast enough to reharden. At that point it should be fully annealed. It might come right out, but if not it'll be soft enough to easily thread a hard screw into it so you can get a slide hammer on it. It generally works much better than a torch because it puts the heat exactly where you need it." That's pretty awesome. I'm not sure how low my stick welder goes though. The lowest mark is at 80 amps That's way too much for that diameter hole. I would heat up the outer part and let the pin fall out after the steel expands enough. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 9:51:25 PM EST
[#28]
If it was me and I had the time. I'd use a 1/4" carbide ball end burr or end mill in a hand drill. To drill through the center of the roll pin. I'd have a couple on hand because they're brittle.
Get through the roll pin, then drill the rest of the way through the frame with a drill bit. Then use a punch from the inside to drive out the pin. And never have to worry about this shit again. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:04:20 PM EST
[#29]
I know you have a Milwaukee die grinder in your box. Stabby glitter is the only way I’ve been able to do exactly what you’re talkig about.
Bale clamp attachment? |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:11:37 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Like" them yes but they make metal cutting versions. The point of the steel shank is that it's not brittle like a solid carbide drill. It takes some finesse in your feed but it can be done. Down side is if you do lose the carbide tip your blind hole is now even harder to clear out, but it's low risk (to me, because I've done it vs the welding electrode anneal idea which is pretty good). Lowest risk idea is finding a cap screw that will thread in on friction. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:31:54 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use wet newspaper or paper towels for this method instead of grease. Less mess. Works wonders on pilot bearings/bushings. I used bread, easy cleanup and I had some. Damn should have read to the end. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:53:59 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Found this online, might work out cleaner than the torch. "Another way to heat and anneal a roll pin is as follows........ Take a small stick welding rod and knock off the flux at the end. Grind it a bit so it'll go into the hole in the pin tight. Turn the amperage all the way down on the welder. Hook the stinger to the rod and gradually turn the amperage up, giving the pin time to heat up. You can probably get a 1/8 pin red hot with 30-40 amps at most. Once its hot, gradually reduce the amperage so it doesnt cool fast enough to reharden. At that point it should be fully annealed. It might come right out, but if not it'll be soft enough to easily thread a hard screw into it so you can get a slide hammer on it. It generally works much better than a torch because it puts the heat exactly where you need it." That’s cool, I want try break a pin just to try that |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:54:23 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's pretty awesome. I'm not sure how low my stick welder goes though. The lowest mark is at 80 amps If its an old Lincoln Tombstone you could try it on 120V. It's just a big tapped transformer. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 10:55:41 PM EST
[#34]
Take awl (not a nice one) who's taper fits into the roll pin.
Hammer awl until roll pin is stuck to awl Pull awl and roll pin out I guarantee you can get the awl fitting tighter to the roll pin than the roll pin fits the hole.  |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 11:17:29 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched a guy drill a hole in a 1.75 inch die pin with a masonry bit in a BP once. He almost made it. Got it hot enough that the steel shank turned to butter. Nub it off with only .06 to go. That second layer of case did it in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Like" them yes but they make metal cutting versions. The point of the steel shank is that it's not brittle like a solid carbide drill. It takes some finesse in your feed but it can be done. Down side is if you do lose the carbide tip your blind hole is now even harder to clear out, but it's low risk (to me, because I've done it vs the welding electrode anneal idea which is pretty good). Lowest risk idea is finding a cap screw that will thread in on friction. |
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Posted: 1/26/2021 11:25:35 PM EST
[#36]
Pack hole in roll pin with grease. Use a syringe to shoot it into the bottom. Take a punch that barely fits in the hole n smack it hard. Hydraulic pressure will wan to make the pin shoot out. Probably take multiple grease folks n smacks but it'll finally come out .... wear gloves because you're going to get coated in grease
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Posted: 1/27/2021 1:27:42 AM EST
[#37]
Quoted: This is a situation where an assortment of carbide burrs is worth it's weight in gold. Grind through one side of the roll pin and use a punch to break it loose. I'm going to need to get some of these. Quoted: Try the grease method again, but not with grease. Use white bread. I've done this before, and it's much cleaner than the grease method, but works just as good. Just keep jamming bread in there, and it will come out. Now I need a loaf of bread in my toolbox. Lol. I'm not surprised it works. Probably much less "squirty" than the grease too. I was trying to pack the grease in but I kept getting air bubbles trapped in between the punch and the grease. Then i remembered that I have a needle fitting on one grease gun, so i was able to fill the hole from the bottom. Still made a giant mess and didn't work though. Lol Quoted: I know you have a Milwaukee die grinder in your box. Stabby glitter is the only way I’ve been able to do exactly what you’re talkig about. Bale clamp attachment? I don't have the die grinder. Yet. I actually just swapped to Milwaukee tools from rigid a couple of weeks ago because they have a lot more mechanic specific tools than rigid does. So far I have a 1/4" hex impact, drill, angle grinder and a heat gun. It's a cascade single/double pallet attachment. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 1:52:37 AM EST
[#38]
Drill out the back, punch pin through, weld the hole back up or tap the hole and red loctite a short bolt into the hole.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 11:30:20 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just keep jamming bread in there, and it will come out. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 11:43:44 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A roll pin in a blind hole is just silly. How the hell were you suppose to get it out even if it wasn't broken. This just doesn't calculate. Brandt / Homag pinned a sprocket on a hot glue roller with a blind hole for the sole purpose of making the assembly expensive and not repairable. It was an easy fix for our techs grind the sprockets off and replace them with off the shelf sprockets. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 12:03:46 PM EST
[#41]
Since you mentioned its a hard pin this probably won't work, but I have seen a self tapping screw and slide hammer used to extract pins in this situation. Screw into the pin and hammer it out.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 4:17:13 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going to need to get some of these. Now I need a loaf of bread in my toolbox. Lol. I'm not surprised it works. Probably much less "squirty" than the grease too. I was trying to pack the grease in but I kept getting air bubbles trapped in between the punch and the grease. Then i remembered that I have a needle fitting on one grease gun, so i was able to fill the hole from the bottom. Still made a giant mess and didn't work though. Lol I don't have the die grinder. Yet. I actually just swapped to Milwaukee tools from rigid a couple of weeks ago because they have a lot more mechanic specific tools than rigid does. So far I have a 1/4" hex impact, drill, angle grinder and a heat gun. It's a cascade single/double pallet attachment. Ahhh. I’m familiar with exactly what you’re talking about. We die grind. Don’t worry you’ll get your Milwaukee stash up. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:39:43 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched a guy drill a hole in a 1.75 inch die pin with a masonry bit in a BP once. He almost made it. Got it hot enough that the steel shank turned to butter. Nub it off with only .06 to go. That second layer of case did it in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "Like" them yes but they make metal cutting versions. The point of the steel shank is that it's not brittle like a solid carbide drill. It takes some finesse in your feed but it can be done. Down side is if you do lose the carbide tip your blind hole is now even harder to clear out, but it's low risk (to me, because I've done it vs the welding electrode anneal idea which is pretty good). Lowest risk idea is finding a cap screw that will thread in on friction. I've used carbide endmills to "burn" out more broken taps that I really care to admit. Crank up the R's, no coolant, and use .0001" on the jogwheel and just eat. Much prefer edm though. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:42:35 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sorry but this is my new favorite quote from arfcom. Ever. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just keep jamming bread in there, and it will come out. Iirc this site introduced me to the term "shim it with a ham". It was in reference to something totally different though. |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:45:30 PM EST
[#45]
Doesn't really help OP with his current problem, but they make dowel pins with threaded holes in them, specifically for making it possible to pull them out of a blind hole. Really handy. We call them pull pins, but there are a few different styles.
https://www.mcmaster.com/threaded-dowel-pins/ |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:49:50 PM EST
[#46]
Small grinder and grind it out or just run a drill in it . This is not a precision piece of equipment here.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:51:49 PM EST
[#47]
What is the base metal the pin is broken off in? If it is stainless or a high nickle content steel you could use a ferric chloride acid to dissolve the pin provided the pin is carbon steel.
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:55:15 PM EST
[#48]
Is that a cascade carton clamp, it looks like the same setup one of my customers have and they've ripped the hooks off enough times that I've just drilled out the roll pins and full drilled all the way threw the clamp.
Start small with drill bits and step up slowly a variable 1/2" hand drill go slow and you'll slowly chew that pin away. Sometimes you'll get lucky and the pin cracked and you can pick it out. I will recommend the hollow pins over the spiral pins if you through drill the attachment then they will just snap out when you need to remove them again |
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Posted: 1/27/2021 10:57:31 PM EST
[#49]
cant be stuck if the pins are melted
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Posted: 1/28/2021 12:24:56 AM EST
[#50]
Quoted: Is that a cascade carton clamp, it looks like the same setup one of my customers have and they've ripped the hooks off enough times that I've just drilled out the roll pins and full drilled all the way threw the clamp. Start small with drill bits and step up slowly a variable 1/2" hand drill go slow and you'll slowly chew that pin away. Sometimes you'll get lucky and the pin cracked and you can pick it out. I will recommend the hollow pins over the spiral pins if you through drill the attachment then they will just snap out when you need to remove them again It's a cascade single/double. I actually broke a drill bit in one. Lucky it was only a bit of the tip and it cracked into pieces so it didn't get stuck. Knowing this customer, I'll bet the attachments don't make it 6 months before one of these two are ripped off. The lower hooks are way looser than i normally run them, but there isn't a way to adjust them. I emailed pics of the ~3/16" space between the hook and the carriage to tech support at cascade and they said that the engineers said it was good to go. I said "we'll run it and see what happens". He responded with "they have a 3 year warranty". An operator at this customer ripped an attachment off so badly one time that it broke the top bar on the carriage. Lol These are the only two cascade single doubles at this customer. The rest are rightline. They seem way more simple and durable. They have a bunch of cascade slip sheet/push-pull attachments that seem pretty well built though. |
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