Posted: 3/8/2005 11:04:06 AM EDT
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OK, guys, I'm currently talking to Mueller Optics about some scope ideas. It would help if you guys would post your thoughts/opinions on a few items we're discussing. I was discussing with them their current 4-16x50 AO mildot illuminated tactical scope. I noted that some reviews (and my personal preference) was against the 1/8" turret click adjustments in favor of 1/4" adjustments. This allows fewer clicks for longer ranges, and eliminates the weird final "missing" clicks (60 can be divided by 4, but not by 8 - this leaves some extra clicks, and it gets tough to figure out your MOA adjustments. Not to mention having to keep track of a ton of clicks.) I also think that 50mm objective is just too damn big - there really isn't a huge incerease in light transmission between 44mm and 50 - and on a "tactical" scope I would rather have a lower scope mounted for better cheek weld. Here is what my email pal said "Actually producing a 4-16x44AO with 1/4moa can easily be done but we haven't really seen any requests for such or we would produce it." What do you all think? Would you prefer 44mm objective AND the 1/4" click adjustments? Post here and I'll send the link to him to check us out here. |
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I'd agree that anything over 40mm is a little overkill. 1/8 clicks are a pain as well, for all but the most accurate bench guns too. A 40mm or so, with 1/4 clicks, is just fine. A bullet-drop comp model with interchangeable cams on that scope would be sweet too, but I'm sure that's a lot more than you're looking for suggestions about. Mil-dot is good, no doubt. A BDC would just be an added plus, but probably make the scope rather expensive, when all is said and done. |
I'd go at least 1/2MOA adjustments on the turrets. I have that on my IOR and love it to death. Not as fast as a military scope with a full MOA per click, but faster than 1/4MOA per click. As to the objective size, 42-44mm tops. even though I have a 50mm objective on mine, that was the compramise. It ahd everything else I wanted but a 42mm or 44mm objective. Zero stop. What else...... |
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1/4 minute adjustment is a lot better. 1/8 min is for bench shooting. 44mm objective is just right. Sometimes 40mm just doesn't gather quit enough light. 50mm objective lens is too big and gets your cheek weld off the rifle and becomes a chin weld on some rifles. Front parrallax adjustment like the Unertl where you dial it in for you and lock it down is the cats meow. You never have to mess with it again. Have the elevation knobs as an external adjustment, not covered up like the sport scopes. Offer a blank elevation knob that you can mark your dope on in 100m increments. Don't have it cluttered with the 1/4 min hash marks. leave the marks unpainted. When the owner gets the rifle dialed in for that 100m line, he can use a paint marker to mark that line. That way it's marked only for the 100m, 200m, 300m and so on that the rifle will shoot. The shooter can then go straight to the whatever hundred meter mark immediately. If it's currently zeroed at 200m, he knows the distance is 500m, he can click straight to 5 and be on. I bought an extra Mk4 Leupold elevation turret like that. On my 308 heavy barrel rifle I can go straight from 100m to 1000m just by taking the turret knob from 1 to 10(1000m) without counting clicks. On my wish list has always been a left sided windage adjustment. I hate taking my hand of the grip area of my 700 and reach reach up to make windage adj. Make it so the shooter can keep his hand on the grip area, reach up with the left hand and make a windage adj. You won't have to re-aquire your grip if you are right handed and have to make a windage adjustment using your right hand. An Anti Reflective Device would be a nice plus for the objective lens. Shooting .50's for a living has made me think of these things a lot. Geez, got a bit long winded there didn't it? 
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Great suggestions, guys. Keep em coming - the people at Mueller seem genuinely interested in creating a product that we would like. So far from what I have seen they make a very nice product for the money - VALUE seems to be a word thrown around a lot when talking about these scopes. True, they are not going to be as good as the Leupolds, Zeis, S&B, US Optics, etc. - BUT those scopes are 3-7 times higher. I'm also talking to them about some interesting CQB style scopes with magnification a la the Leupold CQ/T scopes, but at a much better price. |
I think a LOT of others might be as well - I'll see what the guy at Mueller has to say about this - he is an engineer, after all - nothing like throwing down the guantlet to an engineer and challenge them to build a better mousetrap :) BTW - here is a link to the 2-7x scope I have on order - I really like this reticle too. www.muelleroptics.com/multi-shot.htm |
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The turrets need 1 full turn for 10 minutes of change to make keeping track and figuring out a change easier. A true 55 mm objective has (55/40)^2= 1.89 times the area of a 40 mm lens. The problem is that some manufacturers put small optics tubes inside a large housing so they can charge a high price. |
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First they have to make their optics tough as nails. Second, have a tactical with a real Mildot. 4X 14 X 40 or 44 mm with a 30 mm tube. Low profile tactial turret knobs with 1/4 MOA clicks. And a kill flash. Tell them to make a scope bomb proof, repeatable zeros, and enough MOA for 1000 meter shooting for the recoil for a rilfe up to .50 BMG. And make it a price where people can afford. OH YEAH, AND NOT MADE IN CHINA! |
Well, unfortunately, doing all that and not making it in China means that it won't be at a price where people can afford it. |
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Go 40mm with the objective, side focus, and 1 minute elevation with big target turrets......... Never mind, I'll just come out and say it. Make a scope with the same features and quality as the Loopie Mk4 M1 Mil Dot at $400 street. Or even a Bushnell Elite 3200 Tactical but with AO/side focus and variable power, at $175 street. They could triple the size of the company, make a killing, and still not be able to make them fast enough. |
Followed the link. The AO on the scope at the top of the page screams "made in China". It's almost a dead ringer for the objective bell used on the Tasco/BSA 2.5-10X42 Tactical/Varmint. The caps are very similiar too. |
Like that, but: 30mm Tube, 44mm Objective, Side Fodcus, Mil-Dot, illuminated reticle optional. |
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I agree on the 30mm tube - and I like 4-16x. 16x is about the maximum you can have in any optic before distortion starts to play havoc at long ranges. The nice thing about the illuminated reticles is that you can turn it off and still have a reticle. Side focus is the bomb, too. I like the idea of having the windage on the left side, though - that is really a good idea. Ship with butler creek caps. I hate having to try and figure out which ones to get. An extra $15-$20 cost for the scope with the caps is no big deal - I'll bet most people would love that. Longer eye relief is essential - at least 3.5" |
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Guys, the owner of Mueller and I are in the process of nailing down interest in a special Tactical scope. He is very eager to get input. One question he had - would you prefer a fixed Objective, or an Adjustable Objective? He said that side-focus objectives would add to the cost, though. Also, he is really trying to guage interest in a special Tactical scope offered exclusively a yet-to-be-named comany - depending on the price and features, he can have these scopes ramped up and produced pretty quickly if there is enough interest to justify it. Here's another quote from him for your consideration: We need to emphasize that if cost is a concern, keep the features realistic and don't ask for features that will drive the costs up. A Side AO is a nice feature but will begin to drive the costs up. I also see another post where the user wants full target turrets with out turret covers. If that's the users desire, he can just leave the covers off our scopes and have exposed target style turrets, that's the reason behind our current design (multi-purpose). Leave them on for protection or leave them off for accessibility." |
Hmmm, I seem to remember that from somewhere.  Just messing with you. I've always wanted that in a scope. A adjustable objective that you could lock down with a collar that will hold your parrallax adjustment would be good also. Football mil-dots are much better than round also. |
LOL - yes, it was your idea - which I really liked. |