Posted: 9/20/2002 6:10:28 PM EDT
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So now we find out that those guys they stopped in Florida didn't drive through the toll booth. They show them both stopping and paying. Where is the apology to them for the cops lying. I wonder about lots of what's going on. We talk about our rights has gun owners being taken away. We don't trust the government lots of times. Look at our posts about Calf. or the ATF or the Government. Do you really think ALL Muslims are bad people. This is why we can't jump to conclusions about anything. Even War and sending our family over to die. Could it all be made up for some other reasons. I want to trust our government to do the right thing for all of us. I will stand and go to war myself if needed. We need to really take a look at what's going on before we blow everything up. I know the WTC was real and people hate us. I know Bin Boy and Saddam need to be stopped. Are we treating the whole Islamic world like they all drove through a toll booth without paying. |
| Out of curiosity how, where were the cops lying? All I heard is that a toll both operator said they didn't pay a toll. Cops eventually gave one of them a ticket for that. After reviewing some tapes of the toll booth the 'cops' determined it wasn't true, and voided the summons. How is that lying, do you know something else?? I find it ironic that most people think the cops are lying all the time. Most arrests are based on complainants, not what the cop saw, but.. what was told to them by another. |
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It was said by the police that they darted through the booth without paying. They didn't ask the person in the booth. I am not picking on anyone. First when they were stopped they should have worked with the cops. But let me ask this because I see it alot. You get stopped cop asks you have a weapon...You say what business is it of yours. Are you coporating I think these guys were scared they were going to wind up in Cuba and never be seen again. I still do not condone if they were playing a trick to mess with this woman's head. It comes out they were talking about a car they were going to bring to where they were working. My point which I am sure you understand seems everyone is freaking out. With good reason and I might have thought the same sitting at the table. But to out right lie to make the stop. They were doing racial profileing with a reason. There is nonthing wrong with that. You need to stop them why use a bogus toll booth run to do it. You stop them and say we are here to check your vehicle for possible bomb material. This came on a tip, please coporate and it will be done has easy as possible. From what I know it didn't go like that. But I will not jump to conclusions. |
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Hate is fun; discrimination is pleasurable; stereotyping makes it easy to comprehend the world without all sorts of burdensome thinking. We do it to the Arabs; they do it to us. As Pogo once said in a somewhat different context: “We have met the enemy and he is us.” As far as Iraq, I’m withholding judgment. I was on the receiving end of the “old men sending young men to war” situation many years ago. I’m ever so reluctant to be on the sending end now. Not that I wouldn’t ultimately support a war, but I want more than “smoke and mirrors” to justify it. Thanks for the post. Expect to be pilloried! Also sincerely hope things are starting to turn around for you! |
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Quoted: It was said by the police that they darted through the booth without paying. They didn't ask the person in the booth. Umm.. you said they were 'lying'. I asked you about it.. please tell me how they were... Were the cops manning the toll booths to see them 'dart through'? Or perhaps, when the alert about the vehicle they were driving came out the booth operator confused which car didn't pay? The cops weren't at the booth whatsoever, it's solely based on information from the operator who got 'confused' in all the action. And, I'd wager they were 'screwing' with the woman, perhaps cause she seemed alarmed with them in the first place. |
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You mention the profiling and jumping to conclusions. On Sept. 10 this year, a car pulls up next to me asking for directions to the IRS building. It's a building made up mostly of glass. The people in the car were very polite, clean looking, and had a Middle-Eastern accent. I gave them directions, it was a natural reaction. Instead of turning right into the parking lot, they turned left going very slowly. I went around the block, and when I got into their parking lot I noticed that the car was parked there. I figured it was legit, but I went in and gave the car/people info to an investigator that I knew. I never heard anything else, so it must have been o.k. Would I have gone in there if these people were white/black/oriental/hispanic. No, of course not. If it had been April 14 instead of Sept 10, no. Would I go in and tell again, yes. Their race/religion/culture whatever you want to call it hit us hard. They flipped us over and did us in the dirt-hole. That's too bad if we're a little slow to welcome them with open arms. Can anyone in the U.S. honestly say that they don't look at Middle-easterner differently. |
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Profiling is a police job. I don't agree with this operation T.I.P.S. / spy on your neighbor / Red China / Nazi B.S. It is truly sad that anyone can report anything about anyone and have that person's freedoms taken away until the report is proven false. Right now its a damned if you do damned if you don't situation. I hate that the citizens have been put in this position by our over powering government. If we only had better immigration standards and a more effective border patrol, our threats would be limited ( not eliminated ). An uncountable number of immigrants have come to our country and walked straight to the welfare office to collect the money we've all earned - absolutely, positively unacceptable. Our resources are stretched too thin. We should allow only those who can contribute to our society - not soak up unearned benefits (but that's another topic). People are forgetting that the term, "policing ourselves," means keeping our government in check - not spying on our neighbors. This also means doubting authority. This is the land of the FREE and any entity / organization that has the authority to limit that FREEDOM should ALWAYS be questioned. Even if you, yourself, are a law enforcement officer. We all live under the same flag - lets not tear it. |
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Well, it appears that this incident was certainly either a mistake or a bad joke. I saw these Doctors on Gretta and they certainly seemed to be normal everyday sorts of guys caught up in a bad situation for who they are. FWIW my dept has been pilloried over the last several months in the press about stopping some Muslim folks on 9/12 of last year. My guess ( I was not there) is that through fear and histeria a young deputy over reacted and a family spent 8 days in the clink for buying gas at a gas station. It is not right. The judge through out all the charges and found no PC for the stop. One conviction for disorderly conduct. Still not right. I would however contend and caution that in the Same time period an AlQueda Cell was broken up and several arrest of US citizens loyal to the enemy were arrested in Buffalo. Unfortunately this war will have its casualties in the form of a few trampled rights and alot of inconvenience. I justify this in my mind knowing that we are fighting a wicked insideous enemy who is known to use stealth and deception. We are in fact fighting for our way of life and that of our children. I for one think it sad that some innocents may get run over in the process, but that is the way of war. |
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Am I "racist" against middle easterners, well lets just say after fall of 2001 i am definately predjudiced against a religeon not a race per say! I will not not go around beating them up being rude to them or treating them bad,but that said I will NEVER EVER TRUST A MUSLIM again,and never turn my back on one, not on MY LIFE!!!!!! |
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What about the story out of New York City where a group of 20+ Muslims jumped & beat up 2 Jews on the street in a reaction to Yassar Arifart being under siege by the Israeli Army again ? Religion of Peace my fucking ASS ! Take out Yassar NOW !!!!! ON TO BAGHDAD !!!!!!!!!! GO GW , GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [usa][usa][usa][usa][usa][usa] |
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Degradation of civil liberties is always a concern. But not when they're getting the bad guys. I hate when bad guys get away on technicalities when the smoking gun or body is found on them, in their car, house... Civil liberties or not, as long as it turns out ok in the end (with the ticket), I could give a shit about these rag head fucks. They want to make up a story to scare people, then they themselves should be scared. The cops did the right thing Marc, but I see your point about the future. It CAN happen to any of us, but you and I don't fit the current profile...wait a minute...1-gun owners, 2- disgruntled with gov powers, 3- thousands of posts to a conservative web board for gun owners....ok, maybe we do fit some profile! Would you prefer that they were arrested AFTER something occured though? By the story they told, the attack was eminent. That means, stop them first, ask questions about civil liberties later. |
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Quoted: Yeah. This whole Islamic terrorism thing has been blown way out of proportion. It's a religion of peace, remember? [rolleyes] Yeah exactly, there are millions and millions of Muslims in the mideast that are perfectly okay with our way of life and really have no beef with the Iraelis etc. They dont want to harm anybody....... |
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It was the right thing to do and I would rather have it done before anything happened. My concern is the other reason they used to stop the car. Toll Booth running, they knew the toll was paid. Just on what this women said was just cause to stop and search. Why did they have to say they ran a toll booth to stop them. Like I keep saying if it was anyone of us we would be all over here saying those A-H LEO's. Look how people act for speeding and then JUST asked if they had a gun. Since I put a Bushmaster Sticker, Freeport Gun Club and NRA sticker on my truck. I get looks like I am a Terrorist from people in cars. One even said how could you support the NRA. I also see some police cars slow up has they pass me. Trust me that never happened before. We need to be vigilant but when we are wrong meaning the Government we need to say we made a mistake. Look what they did to that guy who was suppose to have planted the bomb at the Summer games in Atlanta. Look what they are doing to this guy with the Anthrax. He has moved lost his job and still they have nothing on him. Remember todays friendly Country is tomorrow's enemy. You could put has many pictures of Middle Eastern People giving the finger. That does not make THEM all giving us the finger. I DO SUPPORT OUR COUNTRY. |
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I believe those 3 arabs were lying to an extent.I do believe these 3 thought they were gonna play a joke on this poor "redneck". Post 9/11 everything has to be taken seriously. Do i believe these guys were Al Quaeda, no. The guy with the Arab costume didnt really blend in like they are taught. Down deep Muslims believe in religion first country second. Thats why Al Queada is scary they are muslims from all countries and all socio-economic groups, they are not the run of the mill animals throwing rocks at Israeli tanks in the west bank. now we see what happened in Buffalo, US citizens were recruited, religion first. Down deep the huge majority of muslims may not act out terrorism but they condone it and rationalize it in some way. They will get around profiling because they are everywhere. they come from the M. east, Africa, Asia and the Balkans. Its like trying to profile Catholics, 99% of Hispanics,Italians, French, Poles, Filipinos,Croats, Romanians etc. are catholic. I believe you are fighting the Muslim religion. Marc i find it admirable that you havent given up your beliefs after what u went thru. |
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Thank You part of the reason is until you have been and seen what I have. Just like lots of others people will understand. I will not hold the whole for a few. Gut when those few are shown and proven to be the problem. I swear on my beliefs to survive. That I will protect and do what I have to. I will tell you and I pray it isn't Children or Women. If it will be they will be the casualties of war. I will take up arms to save my ability to survive. I also know that after if I live and so does my family. I will help bury those who fought against me. I will pray for their soul or allow a holy man pray for them. In a war being shot at you must really try to keep your perspective. Yes it will start with a gang going after each other. If you make it through that phase, it becomes a little more personal. Unless you fought like that it is hard to explain. I have found in the 2nd part of the fight is Look,Listen.Learn. Stay close to the ground and understand what is going to be thrown at you, It's going to be hard with Israel trying to stay out at first. You need to be a ground level and have an escape plain. This one is going to bend out of shape fast,,,,,,,I feel that in my Bones and heart. Talking is just about over after Sunday |
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Uh huh. Okay, Marc. You know, when you were first here, your writings were sometimes a little bit hard to understand. Spelling was terrible (probably attributable to the drugs aiding in your recuperation), but I see that's not a problem anymore. Progress! One step at a time. |
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i dont buy any of this BS regarding islam. were fighting a religion? doesnt make sense to me they hate us cuz were free and have a different lifestyle? dont believe it all muslims condone the bombing and rationalize it ? bullshit religion may play as a driving force to these groups (even the israelis) but i dont think its the reason for there hate. islam must be a religion of peace because the 7 million american muslims havent gone on a bombing campaign within the states. why havent they blown up or protested on jewish holidays? why hasnt every palestinian person gone into attack mode on israel? in israel, religion may be how the sides are picked, but isnt the hate/fighting have more to do with land than anything else??? IMO we are dealing with religious extremists (like the KKK) that use there religion as a driving force, BUT the spark for there fire and hatred has more to do with american miliary and corporations sticking there noise where it doesnt belong. call me a troll or POS and maybe get me kicked off the site, but thats how i see things. and YEAH i do look at muslims differently, i feel sorry for them, cuz i know there are assholes out there that blame them, and would have no problem giving them a beating. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Yeah exactly, there are millions and millions of Muslims in the mideast that are perfectly okay with our way of life and really have no beef with the Iraelis etc. They dont want to harm anybody....... Bullshit. I was being sarcastic, I dont believe that bovine hocky either. |
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Quoted: i dont buy any of this BS regarding islam. were fighting a religion? doesnt make sense to me they hate us cuz were free and have a different lifestyle? dont believe it all muslims condone the bombing and rationalize it ? bullshit religion may play as a driving force to these groups (even the israelis) but i dont think its the reason for there hate. islam must be a religion of peace because the 7 million american muslims havent gone on a bombing campaign within the states. why havent they blown up or protested on jewish holidays? why hasnt every palestinian person gone into attack mode on israel? in israel, religion may be how the sides are picked, but isnt the hate/fighting have more to do with land than anything else??? IMO we are dealing with religious extremists (like the KKK) that use there religion as a driving force, BUT the spark for there fire and hatred has more to do with american miliary and corporations sticking there noise where it doesnt belong. call me a troll or POS and maybe get me kicked off the site, but thats how i see things. and YEAH i do look at muslims differently, i feel sorry for them, cuz i know there are assholes out there that blame them, and would have no problem giving them a beating. I believe that religion is precisely the issue here. Have you forgotten about the little tiff in Northern Ireland. The Protestants and Chatholics have been beating the shit our of each other in the name of religion for some time. It may not all be religion but its at the heart of things. What we call "Extremist" when referring to Islam is in reality fundamentalism. The basic tennants of the religion allow for the kind of activity going on now and even laud those that die doing these things. Over 80% of the male population in Pakistan thing Osama bin Laden is a hero and we are a POS. I would not call millions of muslims wanting you dead isolated extremism. Its part of their religion and it doesnt allow for peacful coexistance. You are either with Allah or you are a non-human. |
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i know or try to know as much as i can about the northern ireland conflict, and like the israeli and palestinian conflict at the HEART of the matter is NOT religion but LAND. the protestatn english took and hold northern ireland land away from the catholic irish the jewish israelis took and hold palestinian land away from the islamic palestinians. everyone is fighting everyone to take the land back or hold on to it. the spark for the fire is the Loss of Land, the driving force or how the sides are chosen is through religion. the northern ireland conflict -- does this mean that all catholics and protestants are TERRORISTS because there are a few radical groups who choose to fight that war? should ALL forms of christianity be wiped out to keep the those christian terrorists from doing there dirty work? most of the worlds muslims will Generally side with palestine, just like most jews will side with the israelis, just like most protestants will side with england, and most catholics will side with ireland. |
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Quoted: i know or try to know as much as i can about the northern ireland conflict, and like the israeli and palestinian conflict at the HEART of the matter is NOT religion but LAND. the protestatn english took and hold northern ireland land away from the catholic irish the jewish israelis took and hold palestinian land away from the islamic palestinians. everyone is fighting everyone to take the land back or hold on to it. the spark for the fire is the Loss of Land, the driving force or how the sides are chosen is through religion. the northern ireland conflict -- does this mean that all catholics and protestants are TERRORISTS because there are a few radical groups who choose to fight that war? should ALL forms of christianity be wiped out to keep the those christian terrorists from doing there dirty work? most of the worlds muslims will Generally side with palestine, just like most jews will side with the israelis, just like most protestants will side with england, and most catholics will side with ireland. The fact that the two peoples or religions are unable or unwilling to co-exist is not a land issue. I think you have it backward. Religion is the reason why the need for land exists. History is full of these examples. The reason that Rome was so successful in keeping their captured land is that they tended absorb the people of their captured lands into their society and even used them in their army. Land was taken in the name or Religion, not the other way around. You make a big logical jump with assuming I am calling all muslims terrorists. I am calling the majority of mid-east muslims "Fundamentalists". That is they hold more strictly to the written word of their religion or are more fervent practitioners than us Sunday Christians. Yes there can and have been comparisons with Christianity's violent past but I see it this way. In Israel there are Bahai religious centers, Chistian churches and other religious groups and they dont go around killing each other and teaching their kids to do the same. They co-exist. Something that Palestine will not do. I would hazard a guess that if the Palestinians stopped the terrorist activity then the Israelis probably wouldnt attack them. Sounds like a good idea but they dont seem to be hearing that. The basis for this inability to come to some kind of agreement when obviously the world is ready to back them is their "Fundamental" religious beliefs. Im willing to give every religion a fair shake but when they have a tendency to kill randomly I feel its time to stop seeing their side. Yep the Catholics and the Protestants were essentially forced to co-exist by the British government. The inability isnt because Bob has Joes land but because a Catholic has some former Protestant land. If it were the other way around it would be a civil suit instead of a civil war. |
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As far as racial profiling in the US. Here's my 2 cents: I do think that the Muslim population in the US is probably having to endure a fair amount of racial profiling. I DO NOT think that will change anytime soon. After Pearl Harbor, American citizens who were Japanese were being interned all over the country. I have recently seen several interviews on tv which included some of those Japanese that were interned after the attack at Pearl, and all of those interviewed were not bitter, in fact they all stated that they understood that the country at the time was very worried about another attack and that the government felt that it would be best to put them into camps to minimize the chance of sabotage within the country by those Japanese who were sympathetic to the Emperor's war with the US. No such thing is being done to the Muslims, and I'm not saying that it should. I do think that the Muslim population should tone down the bullsh*t about all this racial profiling. They are not in camps and they are still enjoying every freedom that this country has to offer. That said, I am having an increasingly difficult time in obtaining the patience to "understand" the Muslims who reside back in the Holy Land. When I turn on the news, quite often I see the American flag being burned and life size dolls of our leaders being burned. Muslims cannot expect that kind of behavior to bring sympathy to their cause, their religion or their lives. If they are not willing to figure a way out of this mess peacefully, if they must target and kill civilians then F*CK em and their cause. I would prefer no war, I hope a peacefull way will be figured out. JMO I do think we should flatten Iraq |