Posted: 5/1/2003 6:00:11 PM EDT
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I am looking to purchase a pistol for my wife. (New Shooter) and would like to direct mail a purchase to a local FFL holder. I am looking for someone in St. Cloud or Kissimmee area (Holopaw is good also)in Florida,who will accept pistol from a wholesaler. Pistol is not C&R. Thank you, JC [pistol] Marksman, what I strive to be. |
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Here is one place you can do a search for a local FFL: [url]http://www.auctionarms.com/help/fflnetwork.cfm[/url] ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. |
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Thanks for the Auction Arms Info. Went there and the one near me went out of business and two others were over 1.5 hours away. Currently of the three shop owners I have been dealing with... One won't accept transfers. I have to buy from him. The second wants $100 to accept transfer and the third wants 12% of total cost of anything I have transfered. I checked two other shops... one wants $50 and the other wants $40 I was told it should not be hard to find someone who will accept transfer for less. Thank you for the help John |
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Quoted: Bump, let's help this guy out. The FFL he has been dealing with is being a prick and trying to rip him off. Del Gee how is he ripping him off? By not letting him order at wholesale? I can't imagine why any dealer wouldn't want to order a gun for someobody at dealer cost. I mean isn't that why we got in the business to give guns away for free? Maybe if he was willing to actually pay a retail price for his guns (instead of wishing to pay FFL prices without the inconveninece and expense of being a FFL) he might have better luck securing a firearm for his wife. Btw that reminds me, I need a new car for my wife. Any of you guys know any dealers who are willing to sell me one at cost? I'd be willing to pay a transfer fee (say $10-15 but any more than that is a ripoff). Also do any of you guys have your own business? Please tell me what you do for a living because I could really use some plumbers, electricians, etc. who are willing to sell me parts and equipment at cost and install them for me. Of course I'd be willing to give them a few bucks for their time. |
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Puleez Steyr, don't try to tell us that you go into a car dealership and pay the asking price. You try to haggle a little, don't you? If you don't, then I guess it explains why you have to charge such a premium. It's called Capitalism. It's not always pretty, but it's one of the things that makes this country great. BTW- I understand you veiwpoint: I lost my job because people refuse to pay retail when they fly these days. Just curious, do you buy the $1100 tickets at American or the $200 ones? |
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Quoted: Puleez Steyr, don't try to tell us that you go into a car dealership and pay the asking price. You try to haggle a little, don't you? If you don't, then I guess it explains why you have to charge such a premium. No but I don't expect to buy it at wholesale either. Do you? I'm not suggesting he pay full retail, I just pointed out he should expect FFL prices without being a FFL. Also your example is just ridiculous. Almost everyone owns a car and they buy a new one every few years. Gun deealers don't get a fraction of that kind of business so the idea that they can survive on "volume" is absurd. Also cars cost quite a bit mroe than guns. Probably a car dealeship could keep it's doors open on 5% markups (given that cars cost $30,000) but gun dealers don't get a 1/10 of that traffic and guns cost nowhere near what a car does. However if you buy 30,000 woth of guns I could probably do 5% for you. Quoted: It's called Capitalism. It's not always pretty, but it's one of the things that makes this country great. EXACTLY. Buy at "dealer" and sell for a profit. Bingo. Problem is this guy wants to buy AT dealer price. That is not capitalism. Quoted: BTW- I understand you veiwpoint: I lost my job because people refuse to pay retail when they fly these days. Just curious, do you buy the $1100 tickets at American or the $200 ones? I'm a FFL I can't afford to fly at all. Too many assholes that think a 10% markup on dealer price is me trying to rip them off. |
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Bottonline in business is: Seller = Wants top dollar for his/her goods. Thinks product is the best in the world. Buyer = Wants the best product, but wants to pay the lowest amount possible. Below cost is better. In answer to your question: Try [url]www.gunsamerica.com/transfer.cgi[/url] |
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Quoted: Bottonline in business is: Seller = Wants top dollar for his/her goods. Thinks product is the best in the world. Buyer = Wants the best product, but wants to pay the lowest amount possible. Below cost is better. LOL. I can see you've never owned your own business. Bottom line is "keep the doors open." Sure I could sell LOTS of guns at dealer + $5.00. But I wouldn't sell enough to keep the doors open. If the business does not pay for itself it won't survive. Every new dealer thinks he's gonna corner the market and undercut everyone and get "all the business." Problem is there are 25 guys in every area with the exact same idea fighting over the crumbs. Never works. You have to actually do something besides "fill out the paperwork and get your $10.00" if you wanna be in business next year. I'm going on my second year of owning my own business and I'm out of the red. I'm not making money hand over fist, but I'm not slashing prices for a "Going out of business sale" either. |
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Quoted: LOL. I can see you've never owned your own business. Bottom line is "keep the doors open." Actually I did. I ran a martial arts school. It became too much of a "business". I got tired of it. Sold it. Made a slight profit and never turned back. Yup Steyr, I can relate. That is why I never bitch about dealer prices. Money has to be made. This is ones living. No one works for free. But this doesn't prevent me from shopping [;)] |
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Quoted: Quoted: LOL. I can see you've never owned your own business. Bottom line is "keep the doors open." Actually I did. I ran a martial arts school. It became too much of a "business". I got tired of it. Sold it. Made a slight profit and never turned back. Yup Steyr, I can relate. That is why I never bitch about dealer prices. Money has to be made. This is ones living. No one works for free. But this doesn't prevent me from shopping [;)] I actually feel the same way about martial arts. I never looked at the arts as a business. I am a member of a not for profit martial arts fraternity. I was involved in some schools, but as soon as it became apparant to me that they "had" to be run as a business (ie. things had to be done for financial reasons) I looked for something else. I do a LOT of things that aren't about money. In fact when I teach/train students no money is involved at all. But selection and training are very different from a commercial school. But firearms are my business. And no matter how nice you want to be, all your efforts will be for nothing if the business does not pay for itself. And I have yet to figure out how to buy at dealer, sell at the same price, and still stay in business. That said, I try and hook you guys up as much as possible and not end up on welfare myself. |
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Quoted: Money has to be made. This is ones living. No one works for free. But this doesn't prevent me from shopping [;)] There's the widget, the price AND the [u]customer service[/u] too. I tip well. Maybe too well sometimes. If I go out to eat I'm not really looking at the price - I want a good product and good SERVICE too - and THAT is what I reward with a good tip AND me coming back to that establishment again. Same with a lot of things. Same with guns. A 10% difference in price means diddly squat to me if the dealer with the lower price is a jerk. I walked out of gunstore once with a over a grand in cash still in my pocket after I walked in WANTING to buy a gun he had at the cheapest price around - simply because of the SERVICE. No effenWAY I'm gonna reward a jackass with my business just because he's got a gun at 5%-10% lower than the nearest competitor. Life's too short to be THAT much of penny pincher (for me at least). The extra money I'm willing to pay to a guy who treats his customers right and stands behind his product doesn't phase me a bit because I know I'm paying for that good service (and "rewarding" him for being a good guy too) - not just the product. But that's just me. |
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Steyr- I'm looking for a good FFL in my area right now. I would not begrudge him a fair profit. I hold gun dealers in high esteem. If I find a gun that I want in the equipment exchange, and have it sent to him, I am happy to pay about $25.00 for the transfer. For about 15 minutes work, I feel that is fair. It also builds good will, and I would be much more likely to buy other things there. Why do some FFL's only accept guns from another FFL? Any legal basis for this? Just wondering. BTW- your car analogy does not hold up with me. I have bought 1 car from a dealer, and 10 times as many guns. |
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Quoted: Steyr- I'm looking for a good FFL in my area right now. I would not begrudge him a fair profit. I hold gun dealers in high esteem. If I find a gun that I want in the equipment exchange, and have it sent to him, I am happy to pay about $25.00 for the transfer. For about 15 minutes work, I feel that is fair. It also builds good will, and I would be much more likely to buy other things there. And THAT is the crux of the problem. I will also transfer a gun for $25.00. BUT buying from a wholesaler is NOT a transfer. If you were local to me and bought a gun from a private seller on the EE I'd happily receive it for you. But going to one of my supplers and trying to do the same thing (but buying the gun at dealer price) is NOT a transfer. For new guns I usually sell about halfway between my dealer and retail price. There is just no way I'm gonna get you a gun from one of my suppliers at dealer price + $25.00. Quoted: Why do some FFL's only accept guns from another FFL? Any legal basis for this? Just wondering. Many reasons. Libility being one fo them. If they receive a gun from another FFL they can be reasonably assured it is not stolen or in illegal config, etc. If they receive a gun from a guy named "Fred" it is not the same. Also it is done to protect their own business. A lot of guys know FFLs who will sell them guns at cost for a beer. Same guys then turn around and sell the gun on a auction site for what they paid + $25.00. FFLs hate to help these guys who are undercutting their sales (since they have no overhead at all except the beer) so they refuse to accept guns from them. They only deal with other FFLs who have a vested interest in the business. Quoted: BTW- your car analogy does not hold up with me. I have bought 1 car from a dealer, and 10 times as many guns. Yes it does hold up. You are NOT gonna single handedly support the gun industry with your 10-20 guns. More people buy cars than guns, you happen to be one of the few exceptions when compared to the population at large. If guns sold as frequently as loafs of bread dealers could get the kind of volume that would allow them to survive on smaller profit margins. They don't and never will. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Here is one place you can do a search for a local FFL: [url]http://www.auctionarms.com/help/fflnetwork.cfm[/url] ____________________________________ Thanks for that link COLT- got 10 new leads. You're welcome BoR, glad I could help! Damn SteyrAUG, are you one of the dealers he was trying to deal with or are you hijacking his thread just because you're not one of the dealers he is trying to deal with?? [;)] ____________________________________ The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you are already dead. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you will be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function, without mercy, without compassion, without remorse. |
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Bump Thanks for the info. I did got to my dealer and I do not begrudge them a fair profit but, the dealer will not give you a fair price.... Then you look for someone else.... I did. I think $100 is a little steep. I just found a good deal in CDNN investments and wanted to get the pistol for my wife. She is a new shooter and does not like lots of recoil. She is a recent convert from the "ban all guns" camp and if I need to buy her something she likes to keep her shooting, I will. Being just back to work from being laid off, buying her somthing expensive is a little hard considering we just went through $8,000 since last October. My wife does not work as she is disabled. I love my 1911 and I want her to love her pistol just as much. I heard AR15.COM was a great board. Sorry for the controversy. |
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BTW, check with your local pawn shops, most of them will do transfers without a problem. Steyer is right r.e. gun business. A transfer is this: the buyer orders the gun,pays for the gun, brings a SASE to dealer for him to mail FFL to seller. Upon arrival of the gun, the dealer records the info in the book, does the 4473 and sends customer on the way. I give the 4473 to the customer before hand and let him fill it out on his own time then bring it back and have him sign it etc. depending on waiting period etc. So that my time isn't tied up. He gets his gun in the box, no personal instruction, no inspection, no Q&A, call the seller for that, I don't even break the seal on the box if it's a new factory gun with the s/n on the case. If it arrives damaged, not my problem. Anything outside of that is too much to expect, customer must do all the leg work including any phone calls etc. Gun business is the pits for profit, go anywhere and see. Used to make some profit on ammo sales, but that has gone down to the tubes to a good extent as well, hunting accessories, clothing etc. is about the only profit center left and the dealer has to tie up his money in alot of inventory. Even though I can personally order guns at cost, I have bought guns from other local dealers both for myself & my wife along with ammo & accessories and yes, I have paid typically $75 above what I could get the gun for but I went to their store, I handled the gun that they had in inventory, I spent their time talking to them and trying different guns. I could have left and ordered the gun the next day providing I could find it in stock, but I received service from the stocking dealer and I feel obligated to pay for that service and the fact that he had a particular gun on the shelf. As long as his price is fair and in line with other dealers and he's not a prick, then I don't mind paying. I'm in business as well, I know what it costs for insurance, electricity and to keep the door open. It's one thing if you are selling gasoline or food, folks can't do without those items but, guns, jewelry, Harleys, etc. are luxury items and they don't need those things everyday (unless you're a gun junkie like me)That makes the biz difficult and the costs high. So for anyone who want's to order direct from CDNN, fine but at least go buy your ammo, holster, cleaning kit etc. from your local dealer so he can keep the lights on. The whole "buy it wholesale" mentality I blame on Sam Walton, he created the scroungy "Walmart Mentality". Cheap is the only consideration, quality means nothing, service means nothing. If Walmart sells a bike for $99.95 and I sell one for $399.95 the customer thinks I'm ripping him off for $300 and there is no difference in the product. (I do not sell bikes BTW) I deal with this in our business with the products that we sell. And it is the same with Home Depot. The minute the customer has a problem, they call us and I get to tell them that I don't service that brand of product, I don't know who does, just keep calling around. There reply is "well they're made all the same aren't they?" Nope, too bad, so sad. That's why they are cheap, throw it away and buy another or buy one from me and you'll have it 10 years and get parts & service. Sorry, did't mean to rant, but just got carried away. BTW, check with your local pawn shops, most of them will do transfers without a problem. |
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Quoted: Damn SteyrAUG, are you one of the dealers he was trying to deal with or are you hijacking his thread just because you're not one of the dealers he is trying to deal with?? [;)] Neither. I don't transfer guns from wholesalers. I was just letting him know why there isn't gonna be a long line of dealers waiting to sell him a gun at wholesale prices. Then someone asked a couple questions. [;)] Then well, you know. [:D] |
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While Steyr does have a bit of a point on the dealers P.O.V., However... His view is simplistic and short sighted at best. The customer who has a good sale(treatment) will return to the store to buy other things. Or will buy other things while in the store. Or they will shop where the bargains are. Every Sunday my newspaper is filled with coupons of all sorts. You have to ask yourself why. Maybe it's to bring customers to the stores to do what...? I'll give you a hint... It's to buy things. (aka spend money) And not just the things that they have coupons for. It's far more likely that you will stay in business giving your customer the occasional break. Be it $2, $20 or $200 or a couple thousand, the Customers perception will dictate where they spend their money. PERIOD! |
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Oh, BTW, My Prof. Land Surveying Business that has been in existence since 1976 often gives breaks to my customers. My 2 man crew rate is $175/hr. + Most Mortgage Inspections that I do usually take several hours. Sometimes days. Want to talk "Overhead"? I have close to $150k in related equipment and a two story office to heat/cool/keep cleaned. The Company makes most of it's money on bigger projects.Such as Schools, D.A.F.B Runway Projects, State Highway projects, State Plane GPS... Yes, Steyr, The Company gives the Little Guy a break now and then. And you know what? He comes back. To me that's more important than a couple bucks, today. |
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Ps, Steyr, What's your markup? (rhetorical) 20-50-100%? If you are charging $700 for a gun that only costs $300 then you are ripping off your customers. If I find out I am being ripped off by you, I will no longer buy from you. All my friends will know and they will tell their friends... If you do not have a gun in stock, I would expect that if I do all the ground work finding the best prices and all you have to do is receieve it and then put 1 # into 2 books for a Nominal fee say $30 then I expect you will do so or I will get someone else to do so. Consumer Ec.101. However if this said item is regularly ordered by you and in stock when I come in then I don't expect for you to cut your price. RRA 's 2001 LEGP was $660 delivered. The Dealer that received it for me was bent that I didn't buy the $1300 Bushmaster that was on his wall. But, you know what? He did it anyway. Because a good customer will come back again. I have since spent well over the price of that Bushy with that dealer. |
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Quoted: While Steyr does have a bit of a point on the dealers P.O.V., However... His view is simplistic and short sighted at best. The customer who has a good sale(treatment) will return to the store to buy other things. Or will buy other things while in the store. Or they will shop where the bargains are. Every Sunday my newspaper is filled with coupons of all sorts. You have to ask yourself why. Maybe it's to bring customers to the stores to do what...? I'll give you a hint... It's to buy things. (aka spend money) And not just the things that they have coupons for. It's far more likely that you will stay in business giving your customer the occasional break. Be it $2, $20 or $200 or a couple thousand, the Customers perception will dictate where they spend their money. PERIOD! Here is what you missed in your assessment. The gun buyer who is only willing to pay dealer + a "small" transfer fee will have the same approach to everything you sell. You have a holster for $3.00 above dealer? He will buy it somewhere else for .25 cents less. The kind of person who is unwilling to pay anything more than $10 above dealer price will NOT support any business in any way, shape or form. He does not remember you, he does not get you next time, he only uses the service until the next guy comes along willing to sell for $9.00 above dealer. In the two years I've been in business I've watched dozens of "transfer" FFLs go under because they just cannot keep the doors open. they transfer guns for $10.00 but just don't get the volume to pay the bills. Also the guys who come looking for "transfers" certainly don't buy their ammo, Wal Mart is cheaper. And they don't buy anything else, they can finds it online for .50 less. The ONLY "transfer" dealers I know who are still in business all have a day job and do transfers for basically "beer money." |
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Quoted: Oh, BTW, My Prof. Land Surveying Business that has been in existence since 1976 often gives breaks to my customers. My 2 man crew rate is $175/hr. + Most Mortgage Inspections that I do usually take several hours. Sometimes days. Want to talk "Overhead"? I have close to $150k in related equipment and a two story office to heat/cool/keep cleaned. The Company makes most of it's money on bigger projects.Such as Schools, D.A.F.B Runway Projects, State Highway projects, State Plane GPS... Yes, Steyr, The Company gives the Little Guy a break now and then. And you know what? He comes back. To me that's more important than a couple bucks, today. Yes but there is a huge difference between giving the little guy a break and trying to stay in business on $10.00 per sale. I charge what I charge because it is my intention to remain in business. It's working. As for breaks, what do you call the Group Buys? Hell for Christmas I hooked up several "little guys" with guns at cost, I made "no money." It was simply me doing something nice. When your business is successful and run responsibly, you can "afford" to give the little guy a break now and then. And 90% of my business is repeat customers. |
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Quoted: Ps, Steyr, What's your markup? (rhetorical) 20-50-100%? If you are charging $700 for a gun that only costs $300 then you are ripping off your customers. If I find out I am being ripped off by you, I will no longer buy from you. All my friends will know and they will tell their friends... What a fucking laugh. Full MSRP is 30-40% and NOBODY has ever gotten full price for a gun EXCEPT you guys when you sell in the EE. I usually charge in the midrange between my dealer price and MSRP, this comes out to around 10-15%. On the DSA Group Buy I estimate I will make 4% and people were bitching about that. Bottom line if someone expects to buy at dealer price, ANTHING above that is too much. Quoted: If you do not have a gun in stock, I would expect that if I do all the ground work finding the best prices and all you have to do is receieve it and then put 1 # into 2 books for a Nominal fee say $30 then I expect you will do so or I will get someone else to do so. Consumer Ec.101. Nope sorry. I got news for you, flipping through SGN and making a phone call is NOT doing all the work. Operating and maintaining a firearms business is doing all the work. A customer attempting to order direct from my wholesalers is NOT a transfer. It is him trying to undermine my business. The simplist part of my job is making a phone call so I don't think I'm gonna cut my profit margin from 10% to 2% because you made a phone call. If you want a gun I don't have in inventory I will gladly special order it for you at a price somewhere between dealer and retail. I'll gladly do all the work including the dreaded phone call to order it from my supplier. Quoted: However if this said item is regularly ordered by you and in stock when I come in then I don't expect for you to cut your price. This is ridiculous, I should have to cut prices on special orders? How absurd. I deliberately don't stock every model. I special order most things. This way the customer gets exactly what he wants and I don't try and talk him into something else simply because I have it "in stock." What you have to understand is that your copy of SGN does NOT make you a FFL. It does NOT entitle you to special discounts. You want FFL prices, pull a FFL. Quoted: RRA 's 2001 LEGP was $660 delivered. The Dealer that received it for me was bent that I didn't buy the $1300 Bushmaster that was on his wall. But, you know what? He did it anyway. Because a good customer will come back again. I have since spent well over the price of that Bushy with that dealer. The LEGP was not a item the dealer could order. I'd have received one for you too. I will also receive items ordered from private parties (such as in the EE). Those are actually "transfers." What is NOT a transfer is you trying to order from my wholesalers listed in SGN at "dealer price." There is a big difference. |
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I just want to say: I visit my local dealers. Over the past ten years I have tried to give them 90% of my business. Then I found this site. To put things in perspective, these are prices I have paid for stuff over the last 10 years to local guys who I visited religiously. Preban M1A $1400 post ban Bushy 20" A2 $999 Pre-ban Bushy 11.5" $1400 used Ruger 44 mag. Carbine $650 used SKS $450 used Marlin 25n 22lr $195 Remingtin 1187 police Special 12ga $950 Mossberg 590 $325 Firestar 9mm $375 S.A. Standard 1911 $575 Taurus Titanium .357 $550 SW 686 .357 $425 S.A. Micro 45 $800 SW model 13 $325 used Ruger single six .357 $325 used Bushy 16" a2 upper $550 used Star megastar .45 $450 Beretta 92fs $575 0%-25% 30rd USGI AR15 mags $25-$30 20%-50% AK mags $25- $50 New USGI AR mags $30-$35 USA brand AR mags $25 M1A mags USGI $45-$60 FN FAL mags $10-$20 Ammo -too embarassed to say Scopes -even more emarassed to say Accesories never got a deal. In 1999 I found AR15.com In 2001 I started purchasing things over the internet and thru the EE. Live and Learn. Edelmans LI NY T&T Gunnery LI NY D&L firearms Warwick RI Arquebus Arms West Warwick RI The Range Stafford VA For anyone that doubts that I was stupid enought to pay some of these very high prices go check into these stores yourself and see what they are charging today. |