[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Nevermind (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 12/27/2010 9:08:12 PM EDT
| Gonna just keep doing what I love |
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Not law. You don't have to take my word for it. Read some news stories about the job market, some of these fools are actually trying to sue their schools to get their tuition money back because NOBODY is hiring. I myself have been practicing for seven years now, and am in the process of shutting down my practice. I closed my office in July and I still have cases pending because shit drags out so long. I also left my wife in August and I'm getting a divorce, partially because my law practice has poisoned my mind, fucked up my morals, made me perpetually worried and afraid of everything and basiclly turned me into the hateful little man I am today. I'm one of those guys who is looking forward to a Katrina-type event in the city where I live, cause I have a list of wrongs that need righting and I'm just hoping for an opportunity. By the way I'm $107,000 in student loan debt although I entered law school with no debts at all. All that debt came in just three years of tuition and expenses at the Univeristy of Missouri, Columbia School of Law (otherwise known as Mizzou). So if you want to know how long it would take to work your way through, take how much money you have to spare each month, divide a hundred grand by it, and that's how many months. But no school I know of actually does it that way, you take a full battery of classes each semester and its basically a full time job just to sit on your ass and read what Judge Learned Hand wrote in a 1913 case about railroads, day and night. Going to law school was the biggest mistake of my life. My plan now? I think I want to work at a grocery store for awhile, just be a regular guy working a regular job, and not have drug dealers calling my house a 10:30 on a Saturday night because they just got arrested again. Not have crying women calling me at 7:00am the next morning because the Sheriff is there with paperwork saying that their abusive husband's family access motion was granted and he gets to take the kids and beat on them for a week or so. Not put drunk drivers on probation for the 2nd or 3rd time because the jails are full and they used their grandad's money to buy their way out of it, AGAIN. Oh, and I made NO money at it even though I worked up to 60 hours a week. My (soon to be ex-)wife cleared more than I did every year as a public school teacher. If you want more, just IM me. I've got all kinds of hate and discontent for this career choice. |
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a JD is at least 5 years away for you, if you start tomorrow and double up on your undergrad course load. Plus unless you go to a top school, you'll be one of thousands of lawyers skimming the bottom, chasing ambulances, and spending all day on the phone with insurance adjusters and 'clients'
For what, 50k a year? No thanks. Unless someone else (employer) is paying for it, the show isn't worth the ticket price. Get a 4 year degree in a hard skill. No liberal arts, and definitely no criminal justice make-believe degree. Stick with the job you have now. If they offer tuition reimbursement, even better. Go to your local state school while you're working - undergrad is a piece of piss ... two classes a day. Definitely doable if you're motivated, single, and can use some down time at work to get some of the work done. |
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I would not bother going to law school unless you are able to get into a top tier law school. The competition for high-paying law firm jobs is intense at lower tier schools.
Plus, since you don't have a bachelors degree, that's another at least 3 years, so realistically you won't graduate law school for 6+ years, so you'll be 32+ and about $50-60k in debt, assuming you go to a state school with lower tuition. Here's a link to the employment statistics for the University of Wyoming Law School, with some basic salary information as well. http://www.uwyo.edu/law/_files/docs/Career%20Services/Career-Services-2010-SalaryInfo-2009.pdf As you can see, the mean (average) salary in-state is about $50k, is that much higher than your current cop salary? I'm guessing no. There are other career options other than law. |
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I was seriously considering pursuing law school, but at the advice of attorneys I know, and the general hiring market, I decided against it. I got a pretty good LSAT score and could have gone to some good public law schools, but not quite the top 10 Law school territory. It would have only been worth it to me if I had gotten into a top tier school, but even after that, jobs are nowhere near certain. Now, I feel that I made the right decision that is leading me down a different and potentially lucrative path. |
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Quoted:
a JD is at least 5 years away for you, if you start tomorrow and double up on your undergrad course load. Plus unless you go to a top school, you'll be one of thousands of lawyers skimming the bottom, chasing ambulances, and spending all day on the phone with insurance adjusters and 'clients' For what, 50k a year? No thanks. Unless someone else (employer) is paying for it, the show isn't worth the ticket price. Get a 4 year degree in a hard skill. No liberal arts, and definitely no criminal justice make-believe degree. Stick with the job you have now. If they offer tuition reimbursement, even better. Go to your local state school while you're working - undergrad is a piece of piss ... two classes a day. Definitely doable if you're motivated, single, and can use some down time at work to get some of the work done. So apparently the idea that being a lawyer means a great career and income is no longer valid in today's economy. What sort of hard skills are you recommending? If SKILLS are truly the key ticket then wouldnt I be better off at a trade school or just picking up classes and certs relevant to a particular career? Not law. You don't have to take my word for it. Read some news stories about the job market, some of these fools are actually trying to sue their schools to get their tuition money back because NOBODY is hiring.
I myself have been practicing for seven years now, and am in the process of shutting down my practice. I closed my office in July and I still have cases pending because shit drags out so long. I also left my wife in August and I'm getting a divorce, partially because my law practice has poisoned my mind, fucked up my morals, made me perpetually worried and afraid of everything and basiclly turned me into the hateful little man I am today. By the way I'm $107,000 in student loan debt although I entered law school with no debts at all. All that debt came in just three years of tuition and expenses at the Univeristy of Missouri, Columbia School of Law (otherwise known as Mizzou). So if you want to know how long it would take to work your way through, take how much money you have to spare each month, divide a hundred grand by it, and that's how many months. But no school I know of actually does it that way, you take a full battery of classes each semester and its basically a full time job just to sit on your ass and read what Judge Learned Hand wrote in a 1913 case about railroads, day and night. Going to law school was the biggest mistake of my life. My plan now? I think I want to work at a grocery store for awhile, just be a regular guy working a regular job, and not have drug dealers calling my house a 10:30 on a Saturday night because they just got arrested again. Not have crying women calling me at 7:00am the next morning because the Sheriff is there with paperwork saying that their abusive husband's family access motion was granted and he gets to take the kids and beat on them for a week or so. Not put drunk drivers on probation for the 2nd or 3rd time because the jails are full and they used their grandad's money to buy their way out of it, AGAIN. Oh, and I made NO money at it even though I worked up to 60 hours a week. My (soon to be ex-)wife cleared more than I did every year as a public school teacher. If you want more, just IM me. I've got all kinds of hate and discontent for this career choice. Thanks for the detailed personal info. Sorry it turned out so poorly for you. I guess this re-enforces the point that having a law degree doesnt assure you of much in this economy. |
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I would not bother going to law school unless you are able to get into a top tier law school. The competition for high-paying law firm jobs is intense at lower tier schools. Plus, since you don't have a bachelors degree, that's another at least 3 years, so realistically you won't graduate law school for 6+ years, so you'll be 32+ and about $50-60k in debt, assuming you go to a state school with lower tuition. Here's a link to the employment statistics for the University of Wyoming Law School, with some basic salary information as well. http://www.uwyo.edu/law/_files/docs/Career%20Services/Career-Services-2010-SalaryInfo-2009.pdf As you can see, the mean (average) salary in-state is about $50k, is that much higher than your current cop salary? I'm guessing no. There are other career options other than law. Good info. What "other career options" would be more attractive than law right now? And yeah, I will pull pretty close to 50K with all the OT this year, working 4 days a week. Once I get my EMT-B I will be able to earn another 10-15K per year riding the ambulance on some of my days off. why not just look for a LEO job in another state?
This is actually a really good state to be a cop. I am not in the best town for it but there are several places that pay 25 bucks an hour or better. I am looking into options for making 6 figures, really doing something to set myself up for the rest of my life. |
Yep, the L.A. Times newspaper ran a story on law schools a few months back, they said the same thing. Wayy too many lawyers. It even got to the point in the story that the school wouldn't even hire its own graduates. So save your hard earned money, and use it for something else.
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I'm just talking out of my ass here, but if you are truly smarter than the average bear, and have some LE experience, then there may be something for you in the private investigator arena.
As I understand it, the hours suck just like LE, but the pay _can_ be better. It's not just a private cop license, though, the rules/laws/regulations/permits are different and vary from state to state. It can be interesting if you are into solving puzzles etc. However, the basic problem is that anything relating to on-the-scene security/le/etc. involves shitty hours. That in itself may be ok, but it plays hell with a family/social life as far as I can tell (not from personal experience, just an observation) Maybe something along the lines of the forensic sciences would be a good fit? Maybe arson investigator? Not sure where you should look for that sort of thing, but the FBI does a lot of that kind of work I think. |
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Quoted: Honestly? If it were me, and I had your experience, and your background––there would be no question: I would get a job with DHS or BATFE. There's no reason to be insulting. He seems like an ok guy to me. I know times were tough in Germany in '35 but I wouldn't tell good men to go join the SS. |
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Honestly? If it were me, and I had your experience, and your background––there would be no question: I would get a job with DHS or BATFE. I guess since I mentioned an interest in being a lawyer you automatically assumed I had no morals?  I have zero interest in working for the F troop, or the Obama army. Heck, I dont even have an interest in Highway Patrol and writing tickets.
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fed, state or large city leo job? there are good paying med tech jobs, good pay and don't require the years to be an md Currently work for a small town PD. If I were young enough to start again I would look at gunsmith, hunting guide, forest ranger, or firearms instructor. As much fun as all that sounds, none of them are gonna have much of a chance of making me much more than I am making right now 
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Ditto on the med tech job. MD jobs are not all that lucrative because of super high liability insurance. 2 LVN/RN or 4 year RN are possible, BUT there is huge waiting list to get into these programs at the local community and 4-year colleges because of huge funding cutbacks at least in Calif. Maybe at private school?
fed, state or large city leo job? there are good paying med tech jobs, good pay and don't require the years to be an md |
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fed, state or large city leo job? there are good paying med tech jobs, good pay and don't require the years to be an md Currently work for a small town PD. If I were young enough to start again I would look at gunsmith, hunting guide, forest ranger, or firearms instructor. As much fun as all that sounds, none of them are gonna have much of a chance of making me much more than I am making right now I'll add this to my earlier comments... The first rule of career choice really is to seek a job that you would do for nothing. Loving (or at least liking) to do what it is you do makes up for a lot of money issues as long as you can live within your means. At least try for something you like to do that has some prospects for improving in salary/pay/profit in the future as you gain experience. But don't try for a different job just because it pays more...sometimes the only reason it pays more is because it sucks more... |
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Quoted: I know, that's why I suggested something in the same field that pays better, since you said you like it. A small, rural PD around here could pay shit and maybe not even be full time while a State Trooper responding to the same call might make six figures with overtime if he has been on the job long enough. Quoted: fed, state or large city leo job? there are good paying med tech jobs, good pay and don't require the years to be an md Currently work for a small town PD. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Ditto on the med tech job. MD jobs are not all that lucrative because of super high liability insurance. 2 LVN/RN or 4 year RN are possible, BUT there is huge waiting list to get into these programs at the local community and 4-year colleges because of huge funding cutbacks at least in Calif. Maybe at private school?fed, state or large city leo job? there are good paying med tech jobs, good pay and don't require the years to be an md None of the tech jobs make doctor money around here, but some of them make pretty good money without the years of training and residency |
| Engineering is a pretty good deal still. If you get the degree you have a good chance at starting over $45k. I have a BA in History, took the LSAT, realized it would be dumb to go to law school, and started a second degree in Electrical Engineering. I like school so far. |
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Pharmacist. There's always openings, you start at around $75k a year and it's not very difficult... ...as long as you don't mind staying in school––and getting accepted to a school––and earning your PharmD. Also: Many outfits going to robotic pharmacies, or a senior pharmacist with "pharm-techs". Pharmacy ain't what it used to be. |
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nurse anesthetist In the United States, numerous salary reports throughout the years indicate that CRNAs remain the highest compensated of all nursing specialties. In 2009, the median annual salary for nurse anesthetists was $157,724 annually as reported by the AMGA Medical Group Compensation and Financial Survey.
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Regardless of what a lot of folks say, damn near any four-year degree is a good jumping-off point. You can't jump into a forensics gig with just a CJ major, but there are a lot of opportunities out there where a four-year degree is a minimum requirement. Hiring sucks right now, so it's still a good time to go back to school. If you are serious about it, see if you can get family to help kick in some tuition money. My big problem when I was about to graduate college was that I couldn't wrap my head around all of the possible careers out there. I kept thinking of the boardgame, "LIFE," and thought I had to choose doctor, cop, fireman, or teacher. I chose teacher. Don't do that.  Go to various company websites for insurance, oil, manufacturing, etc. Look for their job postings. I have found nothing but scams and bullshit on Monster.com and other employment websites. I think companies are slightly more impressed when you find a posting off their website and not some classifieds site. You look like you aimed at the target instead of bumpfiring. If you get called in for ANYTHING, whether it's a phone interview or open house, be prepared. Know the company history, market share, etc. If you are meeting in person, even for a group session, where a suit. If you don't have a suit, buy one. I'd go with a dark gray or blue to avoid the funeral look. - BG |
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Honestly? If it were me, and I had your experience, and your background––there would be no question: I would get a job with DHS or BATFE. There's no reason to be insulting. He seems like an ok guy to me. I know times were tough in Germany in '35 but I wouldn't tell good men to go join the SS. Quoted:
I guess since I mentioned an interest in being a lawyer you automatically assumed I had no morals? I have zero interest in working for the F troop, or the Obama army. Heck, I dont even have an interest in Highway Patrol and writing tickets.
 Yeah, I sort of expected to hear those answers from this crowd...but I seriously would do it. I'd do it now, had I the intelligence and athleticism required.
I believe in this country, and I'm passionate about the things I believe in. I would do everything in my power to restore my fellow citizen's faith in what is supposed to be public service. I would enjoy being on the inside, and strive to be that which I haven't seen yet: A Federal Agent that actually helps solve problems for gun guys, instead of creating them. One who is interested in catching crooks, as opposed to harrassing law-abiding citizens. A voice of reason, if you will. A BATFE agent that actually believes in the 2nd Amendment (and the rest of the Bill of Rights). As far as DHS goes: The writing is on the wall. I'd rather be in the know, and have a leg up...and there are bad guys out there. I'd like to think that I could be useful in actually helping to protect the country, as opposed to just being a faceless, helmeted, security enforcer. I'm one of us––being in the DHS wouldn't change who or what I am. I'd really, really like to have more patriotic, liberty-minded individuals performing both jobs. |
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35 years practising. The rules change at least once a year and the fees charged by the court change at least once a year. The bar dues are really high and I am required to do public service. Throw in a week a year on required classes and several hundred dollars for the classes as well. Do you do drugs, drink, sexually harrass people? No. TS. You will be required to pay for and take such classes every year.
Should have taken my mother's advice, cut school down, and gone for a job. My nephew graduated with a bachelor's in Engineering, a master's in Business, a law degree. He was hired by the biggest firm in San Diego. He is a member of the Bar and the Patent Bar. After everyone clerking at the firm who had not passed the bar was fired for lack of work, he was let go in his second year of practice. Tells you something about the job market, right? I had a professor who always muttered that if he knew when he was a youngster what he knew now, he would have chosen a different occupation. 1. find something you like 2. work at being socialable 3. learn to dance 4. marry a rich woman |
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I'm in a similar situation and I just turned 28. I spent 5 years at a small/medium sized PD before I transfered into the reserve officer program 6 months ago in order to go back to school on the post 9/11 GI bill. I graduate with a BS in Global Security and Intelligence Studies in 3 to 4 semesters. Not exactly sure what I will do but some sort of Federal LEO job is pretty appealing. |