User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 7/11/2024 7:44:32 PM EDT
[#1]
How many spaces is the panel? Is it a cookie cutter house in a development? I always try to get at least a 40 space panel for a 200A service. If it's a development house, they probably didn't think too much about wiring and saving space, they just throw shit in a go.
Dual breakers or a subpanel would work, but you need to verify the panel can use dual breakers. |
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Posted: 7/11/2024 8:36:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: So we just had a new home built (~2900 sqft finished), and I noticed that the electrical panel they installed is already completely full. We have circuit breakers for everything, it seems we have so much isolation. This seems problematic for a number of reasons: 1) If we finish the basement, we won't have any room on the panel to add circuits 2) If I want to add an electric vehicle charger, no room for that 3) No additional outlets in the garage Is it even code to build a house this way? Probably is, but who knows. I can post a pic later if that's useful or entertaining. Also I have no idea why in 2024 people are still hand-writing barely legible labels on the panel. ETA: Looks like "Sub Panel" or "Dual-Pole breakers" are my only 2 realistic options. You didn’t pay for a bigger panel. Was it not an option to have a bigger panel put in? Did you ask? You should have asked for more when you signed the contract to buy your new house. People hand write because pens and tape are cheaper than forgetting a label maker you ran out of printer tap for. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 9:42:57 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: So we just had a new home built … Is it even code to build a house this way? Are you complaining just to complain? If it was against code to use up all the slots then you couldn’t add breakers laters because it would be… wait for it…. against code to use up all the spots. But yes, what you describe is common practice these days. It takes less thought/planning and the electricians get to sell more supplies. My dad renovated his childhood home (an old farm house) around 20 years ago and the wiring is a mess - there is a 40 breaker panel and a 20 breaker sub panel and all are full. The circuits are combined in a thoughtless manner and the only common theme is that they were laid out in the way that requires the most wire. There is a breaker dedicated for under cabinet lights in the kitchen for example - a breaker and separate circuit for about 30w of led lights. After the work was done the breakers weren’t even labeled. If you need more breakers then consolidate existing circuits, add a sub panel, or use the 2-in-1 breakers. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 9:48:42 AM EDT
[#4]
Some panels can use half width breakers at the bottom.
I'm planning on adding a sub panel when I add on to the house. I'm getting close to full on my 40 panel breaker. I think I'm down to three free spots after the two mini splits I put in. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 10:13:09 AM EDT
[#5]
I like a lot of isolation personally. I greatly dislike lots of rooms on one circuit, or lights and outlets for a room on the same circuit. It’s annoying to work on outlets without lighting for example. Also the isolation stops the shit I’ve seen in several houses I’ve owned that had all the bathrooms on one circuit. That’s annoying when someone needs to use the bathroom with the power off.
It does require more material to do this ( wire, breakers, larger panel) but doing so in the original building phase is much much cheaper than fishing wire after the fact. Not to mention addition romex and breakers have little impact on your mortgage payment vs buying all the additional materials at one and the much more expensive labor to install later. As suggested tandem breakers if compatible and or a small sub panel. It’s not a big deal or end of the world. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 11:22:40 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You didn’t pay for a bigger panel. Was it not an option to have a bigger panel put in? Did you ask? You should have asked for more when you signed the contract to buy your new house. People hand write because pens and tape are cheaper than forgetting a label maker you ran out of printer tap for. It was not a listed option, but I probably could have had it done if I would have asked. The electrical subcontractor basically said anything was possible if we paid enough. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 11:34:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it a cookie cutter house in a development? I always try to get at least a 40 space panel for a 200A service. If it's a development house, they probably didn't think too much about wiring and saving space, they just throw shit in a go. Dual breakers or a subpanel would work, but you need to verify the panel can use dual breakers. Well I know terms like "Cookie Cutter" and "Tract Home" are often used a pejorative terms. Houses are expensive in this area; in my zip code the median selling price of homes is over 700k. In a developement: yes. My friend built a fully custom home in "The forest" and it was 1.5 mil a few years ago. My co-worker just finished his fully custom home up the hill from me and it was 1.2 mil. So I would say, halfway between "cheap tract home" and "fully custom". There's not another house within a mile that looks just like mine. Turns out I'm an idiot because there are 6 free slots near the top.  Attached FileThis has now become a "rate my panel" thread 
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Posted: 7/12/2024 11:58:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Where's your main breaker?
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:05:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where's your main breaker? Ah! I'm glad you asked. The local building code now specifies an EXTERNAL shutoff. So it's on the exterior wall of my home on the other side of the wall from this panel And yes anyone with a bolt cutter could shut off the power to my house. Isn't government wonderful? Yeah it's dumb. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:08:37 PM EDT
[#10]
Looking at the panel, I see a single pole for the furnace and water heater, which tells me you have NG or a propane tank. If you switch the oven, dryer and cook top over to gas, you'll free up space as well. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:10:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah! I'm glad you asked. The local building code now specifies an EXTERNAL shutoff. So it's on the exterior wall of my home on the other side of the wall from this panel And yes anyone with a bolt cutter could shut off the power to my house. Isn't government wonderful? Yeah it's dumb. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:11:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where's your main breaker? lol - thinking the same thing. Op responded and agreed that is a shit sandwich. Now some asshole can come along and turn off your power, especially if your on a trip and screw your good. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:19:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol - thinking the same thing. Op responded and agreed that is a shit sandwich. Now some asshole can come along and turn off your power, especially if your on a trip and screw your good. On the plus side, makes it really easy to replace your own panel (if allowed). No need to contact the power company to shut off, just disable at the main cutoff. It's kind of shitty, but really not that big of a deal. If someone wanted to cut off the power to a place, all they'd need to do is cut that tiny tamper resistant tag on the meter, and pull it. Not as simple as pulling a lever...but...not hard either. 
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Posted: 7/12/2024 12:20:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the plus side, makes it really easy to replace your own panel (if allowed). No need to contact the power company to shut off, just disable at the main cutoff. It's kind of shitty, but really not that big of a deal. If someone wanted to cut off the power to a place, all they'd need to do is cut that tiny tamper resistant tag on the meter, and pull it. Not as simple as pulling a lever...but...not hard either.
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Posted: 7/12/2024 1:15:16 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/12/2024 1:31:28 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looking at the panel, I see a single pole for the furnace and water heater, which tells me you have NG or a propane tank. If you switch the oven, dryer and cook top over to gas, you'll free up space as well. NG for sure. My wife decided she wanted an electric cooktop. For the price we paid, could have gotten a nice gas unit. You have to understand how stubborn my wife is. If she ever dies I am doing gas. |
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Posted: 7/12/2024 10:08:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yes anyone with a bolt cutter could shut off the power to my house. Isn't government wonderful? Quote HistoryQuoted: And yes anyone with a bolt cutter could shut off the power to my house. Isn't government wonderful? Only need dykes - cut the security tag off your meter box and pop the meter out of the socket. Been that way for a few generations. Quoted: Turns out I'm an idiot because there are 6 free slots near the top. I’ve seen panels that use the same faceplate for boxes with different numbers of sockets. Ie. A 10 breaker panel and 20 breaker panel have the same faceplate with 20 slots, but the 10 breaker panel doesn’t have sockets under 10 of the slots in the cover. In fact, the subpanel in our house is like that - there are 4 slots at the bottom that do not have sockets under them. Pop the cover off your panel, there might not be sockets under those 6 slots. |
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Posted: 7/23/2024 9:25:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only need dykes - cut the security tag off your meter box and pop the meter out of the socket. Been that way for a few generations. I’ve seen panels that use the same faceplate for boxes with different numbers of sockets. Ie. A 10 breaker panel and 20 breaker panel have the same faceplate with 20 slots, but the 10 breaker panel doesn’t have sockets under 10 of the slots in the cover. In fact, the subpanel in our house is like that - there are 4 slots at the bottom that do not have sockets under them. Pop the cover off your panel, there might not be sockets under those 6 slots. He is going to ask how to add sockets to a panel next. |
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Posted: 7/23/2024 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#19]
I have two sub panels. It is a thing. It is nice having my garage and out building breakers easy to access.
Now that I have a bigger main panel, I have extra slots. I installed a two pole TVSS, still have extra slots. 
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Posted: 7/23/2024 10:23:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Every one of those breakers has the ability to feed two circuits. You just add the wire under the clamp.
It's not 'code' but you could easily combine a couple low-draw circuits by just moving wires to combine. Code here mandates a single breaker for both refrigerator and for furnace. I've never checked the draw on either but I find it hard to believe that both are going to exceed 75% of 20A so....if I needed an EV circuit, there's one down and one to go... I understand the fear of external cutoffs, but if it means the FD gets in faster to save my shit, I'm up for it. I know my house in the dark and I can live the rest of my life without electricity, so I'll risk it. |
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