[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Night Vision for SHTF (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/16/2009 5:37:43 PM EDT
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So I want some night vision. I can't spend the $3000+ for some Gen 3 stuff, but I want something for SHTF. My main question is for SHTF would it be better to have a rifle mounted NV or a head mounted NV? I'm looking at two different options from ATN.
This is the ATN rifle mounted NV. $319 http://www.opticsplanet.net/atn-aries-mk300-riflescope-nvwsm30010.html I'd have to get some sort of QD mount and I might need it to clear my rear BUIS. I think. 
This is the ATN head mounted setup. $269 http://www.opticsplanet.net/atnamvipmodh.html# 
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SAve up and watch the EE for deals I just got a good one. ( I hope I get it this week, I have 3 days to try it out) anyways you don't need 3 grand to get in Gen 3 if you watch the EE I've seen 2 go for 2200-2400.
Most of the ones you are going to want will be both weapon mount and helmet mount, |
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save your worthless paper...or at least go with us nightvision.. Get as used set of PVS-7's. The performance is almost as good as the best PVS14's at a price better than a Russian Gen 2 device. BTW: Where exactly does one send a Russian NVD for repair, especially once the economy takes out all the dealers? You can still get parts support for the first NVD's the US military ever fielded, right now, with a phone call. |
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There is an article in the Shotgun News about ATN budget NV. It really looks promising for very little cash. I probably wouldn't use it for SHTF anyway. He mentions the biggest drawbacks of a gen 1 as well. If you want a gen 1 you will want a very good dedicated IR illuminator, or at least good light with IR filter, but those usually can be seem with the naked eye.
I might look for a gen 1 soon too. If you buy one keep us updated. |
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There is a night vision forum on this site somewhere, lots of good info there to read.
I vote avoiding those things you posted and looking for head mounted since it lets you move and use the nightvision. Something mounted on the rifle means you have to point the rifle at anything you wish to look at and that is not a good idea most of the time. I try to avoid using the phrase "all the time" so that is why it is not used above. I own a pvs14. Mine is set up to be head mounted and I don't have anything weaponwise to set up for it to mount onto and I am fine with that. Being able to see and move in the night is nice. There are ways to be able to also shoot in the night. |
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There is a night vision forum on this site somewhere, lots of good info there to read. I vote avoiding those things you posted and looking for head mounted since it lets you move and use the nightvision. Something mounted on the rifle means you have to point the rifle at anything you wish to look at and that is not a good idea most of the time. I try to avoid using the phrase "all the time" so that is why it is not used above. I own a pvs14. Mine is set up to be head mounted and I don't have anything weaponwise to set up for it to mount onto and I am fine with that. Being able to see and move in the night is nice. There are ways to be able to also shoot in the night. The problem with our NV forum is that they tend to only look at the highest end NV as worth having at all. The truth is that most of them have only ever had what they bought and no experience with anything else. They just know that NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING is comparable to what they bought recently from their Favorite Dealer. Couldn't be, because if it was it would cost $3-4k also. |
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I bought a head mount, but got a rifle mount for it, but would rather have a head mount and an infrared laser on my gun. I can't figure out how to get an infrared laser yet. I am trying to figure out how to get one.
btw, I also bought a cheap russian NV when I started for a couple hundred bucks. I literally couldn't see shit with it. some kids were running through our back yard and I couldn't see it. I could see some shapes etc but nothing really usable. I scrimped and saved and sacrificed and stole most of a tax return one year and wound up buying a PVS 14. Goshdamn that hurt. I bought it from tactical night vision on the board. I bought a hand select tube but it has a little hair or something in it so it's got a dark line near the top of the FOV. noticeable but still infinitely better than any GenI stuff. I have never seen or used GenII but I have heard some of it is OK. I would still recommend finding a good Gen III tube and having something usable. Victor was good to deal with and has tons of stuff available for NV. He's got the most knowledge of anyone I could find in the industry about this stuff and will be very willing to help you find what you need yes it will hurt, but when you need it, you'll be glad you have it. |
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The bushnell tactical monocular is the only 1st gen mono worth a damn. It can also be adapted to the rhino mount and headmounted easily. (It comes with a headmount, but it sucks.) You can actually ID targets at 100 yards if you have a good IR illuminator with it. (The built in one is good, but not for long range.) The resolution is spectacular for a 1st gen device. I've owned probably 20 different NV setups, and aside from the huge and ancient PVS2, it's the only cheapie you should consider.
Otherwise save up for some good US made gen II or gen III. You'll never be unhappy with good NV. (Buy once, cry once.) |
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A couple years ago I bought a Gen1 ATN NV riflescope with the chevron, bullet drop compensator, etc. and, well, it sucked. Crappy resolution, IR illuminator was shit, thing was huge and heavy (looked cool though). I kinda swore off NV because I just couldn't justify spending $2000+ for splendo-vision.
OK, so I was at the West Palm Beach (FL) gun show a couple weeks ago, and this guy was selling NV stuff. He had a head-mount binocular NV set-up for $800 bucks. I was bored by all the NcStar and pots and pans vendors, so I asked the guy if I could look at the head-mount thing. It was a brand-new Gen 1 rig made by Luna Optics (?), so I wasn't expecting much. He said he ran the batteries down on it (dead) but handed me a hand-held jobbie that had the same guts as the head-mount one. He left the caps on (to prevent damage to the tubes) and when I took a peek, it looked pretty damned good. Great resolution, focus, etc. Way better than other Gen 1 stuff I've looked at. He couldn't find an extra set of batteries for the head-mount rig, but offered to sell it to me for for $600 bucks ($200 off). He told me to drive down the street to Walgreens, buy the batteries, and if I didn't like it, bring it right back and he would give me my money back. Well, I bought it, took it home, bought 2 new batteries and waited for dark. I figured if he fucked me, I would go back on Sunday and shove it up his ass. I'm friggin AMAZED! This thing (Luna Optics LN-PBG 1) is VERY GOOD for a Gen 1 NV device. Resolution is great, the binoculars have both adjustable eye relief and focus, and the IR illuminator works great for CQB. It also has an electric "eye" which shuts down the tubes if the ambient light is bright enough to damage the device. You can actually see very minute details out to about 100yds. The head gear is very adjustable, secure and comfy even with my giant melon. Just for shits and grins, I ordered "Da Torch" from TNVC, which doubled the effective range of the NV. I guess my point is that the head-mounted NV stuff is way more versitile than a weapon-mounted scope, and for casual zombie hunting or sneaking around the 'hood, there are some good, reasonably priced Gen 1 NV options out there. Is it Gen III? Nope. But for my use it's more than satisfacory, especially when combined with a good IR illuminator (although not absolutely necessary). On this particular rig, the built-in IR works pretty damn good. I'm usually not happy when I spend $600 bucks on anything, but I feel I got my money's worth on this thing. |
I voted "head mount". Short of buying both a dedicated helmet NOD and a dedicated weapon NOD, the PVS-14/MUM NOD's are hard to beat. All decent NOD's are expensive, to me anyways, so I didn't want to buy both. Which left me with the choice of an MUM type or an AN/PVS-14 for the best bang for the buck. I chose the latter.   ... since those photos were taken I have went with the GG&G flex mount to make switching between head/weapon easier. **FED TROLLING FOR AN EASY CASE DISCLAIMER** My AN/PVS-14 came from Victor at Tactical Night Vision Company, my MICH/ACH is a civvie' available MSA made one, not stolen military. Thank You.  |
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I couldn't afford a gen III either, but I got one anyway. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/GySgtD/100_1321.jpg How are you liking the Streamlight Sidewinder? |
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IR laser diodes are not restricted, only complete devices. If you are having trouble, think about rolling your own by replacing a diode.
Also, A Comp M2 or Eotech with NV capability works well for shooting with NV on. I have all 3. (Like Eotech 553 best at night.) |
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Having a PVS14 sure would be nice. But every time I started to buy one, I started thinking how much food I could put away for the cost of a single NV monocular. Hell, for $3500, you could easily put away enough food to feed 3 people for a year! So I always just ended up buying more food instead.
NV gear is nice to have. But there are other things more critical when it comes to SHTF. Therefore I would only recommend spending lots of $$$ on NV after you have addressed the needs of food, water, shelter, etc. Once you are good to go in that department, then start to look at NV gear. |
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Opps. I voted for headmount, before seeing that your options were gen I. Save up your money. I know, you want it now, but you won't be happy with those. Save you money. I thought "eh, any NV is better than no nighvision, those people in the NV forum just have too much $ to burn, I'll be fine with Gen I stuff." Went to the stores and checked out gen I stuff. It's really not THAT much better than nothing sadly. So, while I have no NV, and likely won't be able to afford any for several, several years, at least I didn't spend my hard earned $ on something that I will hate.
Save you money. |
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My friend, niether of those devices are worth your money. Think about it like this: if good NV costs 2K+, what is this stuff they are peddaling for $350?
You would be wasting money that could be saved for much better kit. With that kind of coin, you would be better served buying a case of ammo. As for ATN, do a quick search on a couple different formus before parting with your money. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I couldn't afford a gen III either, but I got one anyway. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/GySgtD/100_1321.jpg How are you liking the Streamlight Sidewinder? It works just fine. Long battery life. It does, however, tend to catch vegetation when helmet mounted. I reckon the Surefire helmet light would be a bit better in this regard, but it is much more expensive.  |
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I'd love to, but if I did, my wife would likely be ... not my wife anymore...
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