Posted: 9/17/2014 10:46:18 PM EDT
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I agree the Break shield seen here below in the story is not a suppressor but if the ATF stood behind the tester with a meter and one test with the shield off , the second test with the break shield in place it's going to be a lot less DB's behind the shooter. It says in the artical that it redirects gases & sound away from the shooter. The ATF is going to take the tact (possibly) that any drop in DB's in any direction is a suppressor? We all know some of testing done has been less than stead fast honest, like using soft primers to get a gun to double. http://soldiersystems.net/2013/01/02/qd-brake-shield-for-aac-mounts/   |
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. |
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Looks like a muzzle break... given how acoustics works, the 'report' noise is going to go somewhere - it'll come out the front in a wave - so anyone to the front of the shooter should hear the blast. Lessening the relative report for the shooter or those behind him is not the same thing as reducing the overall report of the weapon.
It'll still sound like a CRACK not a Pop. A silencer really does muffle the sound emitted by the expanding gases. That thing just redirects them. |
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. ETA: Seems like a pointless idea, anyway, reading the article. There's less sound forward of a shooter with a brake too. ATF is retarded. |
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There's less sound forward of a shooter with a brake too. ATF is retarded. Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. ETA: Seems like a pointless idea, anyway, reading the article. There's less sound forward of a shooter with a brake too. ATF is retarded. The ATF is retarded. But so is the way the NFA was written. |
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I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. |
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No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. What does the location of the device have to do with anything? |
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What does the location of the device have to do with anything? Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. What does the location of the device have to do with anything? For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Earplugs & muffs do not diminish the report of a firearm in any way, just the wearers perception of it. For a device to diminish the report of a firearm, it has to actually diminish the report of the firearm. Pillow on end of gun, could be a silencer. Pillow over your ears, can't be a silencer. |
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IIRC the device must attach to the firearm. Many shooters use old tires and a wood frame to shoot thru at their home range. It reduces the noise for good neighbor relationhs, however it is not a silencer since it does not attach to the firearm. I also believe that the ATF says a silencer is any device attached to a firearm that reduces the sound of the report. It never states where the sound is tested, so once again the ATF is allowed to interpret the law as they choose. |
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For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Earplugs & muffs do not diminish the report of a firearm in any way, just the wearers perception of it. For a device to diminish the report of a firearm, it has to actually diminish the report of the firearm. Pillow on end of gun, could be a silencer. Pillow over your ears, can't be a silencer. Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. What does the location of the device have to do with anything? For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Earplugs & muffs do not diminish the report of a firearm in any way, just the wearers perception of it. For a device to diminish the report of a firearm, it has to actually diminish the report of the firearm. Pillow on end of gun, could be a silencer. Pillow over your ears, can't be a silencer. What if the pillow over your ears was on the end of a gun? |
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Quoted: I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. Quoted: Quoted: If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. But the ATF has taken a co to task because the break caused a 2 DB drop, I was looking for the info, maybe someone has it? |
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For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Earplugs & muffs do not diminish the report of a firearm in any way, just the wearers perception of it. For a device to diminish the report of a firearm, it has to actually diminish the report of the firearm. Pillow on end of gun, could be a silencer. Pillow over your ears, can't be a silencer. Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. No, they don't do anything to quiet the report of a firearm, they cover your ears. If they went on a gun you'd be making sense. By that bizzare interpretation distance would be a silencer. What does the location of the device have to do with anything? For the purposes of the National Firearms Act the term Silencer is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(24) The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication. Earplugs & muffs do not diminish the report of a firearm in any way, just the wearers perception of it. For a device to diminish the report of a firearm, it has to actually diminish the report of the firearm. Pillow on end of gun, could be a silencer. Pillow over your ears, can't be a silencer. The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor. |
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Quoted: IIRC the device must attach to the firearm. Many shooters use old tires and a wood frame to shoot thru at their home range. It reduces the noise for good neighbor relationhs, however it is not a silencer since it does not attach to the firearm. I also believe that the ATF says a silencer is any device attached to a firearm that reduces the sound of the report. It never states where the sound is tested, so once again the ATF is allowed to interpret the law as they choose. |
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The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor. 
No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. |
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I agree But the ATF has taken a co to task because the break caused a 2 DB drop, I was looking for the info, maybe someone has it? Quoted:
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If that were the case, then all flash hiders would be suppressors since there is less sound behind a rifle with a flash hider than a rifle with a brake. I've said here in the past that, by a perfectly strict adherance to the (constitutionally) overbroad definition of a silencer in the NFA, headphone ear muffs and ear plugs are silencers. But the ATF has taken a co to task because the break caused a 2 DB drop, I was looking for the info, maybe someone has it? That was the original XM177 moderator. |
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Just look at the MPX-C from Sig right now, the ATF is considering the permanently attached muzzle brake on it a suppressor even though it by itself does not diminish the report of the rifle. Shouldn't be considered a suppressor, but ATF clearly has it's head up its ass, so there is that. Just to add fun to the discussion, what if you welded an end cap on it, would the flash hider/brake turn into a silencer part magically? 
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Quoted: Just look at the MPX-C from Sig right now, the ATF is considering the permanently attached muzzle brake on it a suppressor even though it by itself does not diminish the report of the rifle. Don't they do that with parts too? Even some washers? They ever get around to that adapter that allows you to use oil filters as a suppressor? |
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Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor. I imagine indoor ranges would be all over this if it would actually work. If it is not portable, ATF would ok it. |
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No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. Quoted:
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The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor.
No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. Is diminished a relative term or an absolute one? Diminished in relation to what? How about a firearm that emitted noise in a frequency above or below the range of human hearing? Get my drift? |
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Is diminished a relative term or an absolute one? Diminished in relation to what? How about a firearm that emitted noise in a frequency above or below the range of human hearing? Get my drift? Quoted:
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The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor.
No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. Is diminished a relative term or an absolute one? Diminished in relation to what? How about a firearm that emitted noise in a frequency above or below the range of human hearing? Get my drift? Diminished in relation to the report of the firearm without the device attached. Does going into a building away from a loud motorcycle make the motorcycle quieter? When you cover your eyes, does the world disappear? |
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Diminished in relation to the report of the firearm without the device attached. Does going into a building away from a loud motorcycle make the motorcycle quieter? When you cover your eyes, does the world disappear? Quoted:
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The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor.
No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. Is diminished a relative term or an absolute one? Diminished in relation to what? How about a firearm that emitted noise in a frequency above or below the range of human hearing? Get my drift? Diminished in relation to the report of the firearm without the device attached. Does going into a building away from a loud motorcycle make the motorcycle quieter? When you cover your eyes, does the world disappear? If there was a law against reducing the visibility of objects, then covering your eyes would count for the same reason I've stated above. The language is overbroad. Sounds ridiculous? Sure. The law is ridiculous if read plainly and without bias. |
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If there was a law against reducing the visibility of objects, then covering your eyes would count for the same reason I've stated above. The language is overbroad. Sounds ridiculous? Sure. The law is ridiculous if read plainly and without bias. Quoted:
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The phrase "diminishing the report of a firearm" is overbroad and includes diminishing the perception of it. Go make an electronic noise cancelling device with no baffles whatsoever and submit it to the ATF. See what they have to say about whether or not it's a suppressor.
No, it doesn't. Because covering your ears, going inside, walking away doesn't diminish the report of the firearm. Your second suggestion is impossible, but if it weren't, and it diminished the report of the firearm it could be a silencer. Is diminished a relative term or an absolute one? Diminished in relation to what? How about a firearm that emitted noise in a frequency above or below the range of human hearing? Get my drift? Diminished in relation to the report of the firearm without the device attached. Does going into a building away from a loud motorcycle make the motorcycle quieter? When you cover your eyes, does the world disappear? If there was a law against reducing the visibility of objects, then covering your eyes would count for the same reason I've stated above. The language is overbroad. Sounds ridiculous? Sure. The law is ridiculous if read plainly and without bias. It is ridiculous, and you are not making any sense. It has to affect THE FIREARM. The REPORT OF THE FIREARM. Not your fucking ears. |
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Why are you mad? Quoted:
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It is ridiculous, and you are not making any sense. It has to affect THE FIREARM. The REPORT OF THE FIREARM. Not your fucking ears. Why are you mad? 
If a gun fires in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it have a silencer? 
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