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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:04:10 AM EST
[#1]
FIA doing liberal things, choosing both track limits minutiae and physical restraint in the form of gravel.
The idea of the gravel is that it is supposed to negate the “time advantage” when crossing over the track limit, by slowing the car / forcing a strong correction, and yet they’re issuing track limit penalties anyway. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:05:27 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: I'm honestly starting to wonder if they truly drive the same car |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:09:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: fike]
[#3]
As much as I’m not a fan of David Valsecchi’s commentary generally, you have to give him credit for standing between Buxton’s and Palmer’s hype and blame game and saying “this is F1. This is what we rave about from 20 and 30 years ago with legendary drivers”.
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:13:02 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: As much as I’m not a fan of David Valsecchi’s commentary generally, you have to give him credit for standing between Buxton’s and Palmer’s hype and blame game and saying “this is F1. This is what we rave about from 20 and 30 years ago with legendary drivers”. Did you know that he was actually a decent driver too ? |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:13:51 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: As much as I’m not a fan of David Valsecchi’s commentary generally, you have to give him credit for standing between Buxton’s and Palmer’s hype and blame game and saying “this is F1. This is what we rave about from 20 and 30 years ago with legendary drivers”. He is very marmite to people, but he's not wrong here. People are talking about something other than another Verstappen win (I thought it would be another Verstappen win). |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:15:11 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: I use to say the same thing about RIC's car when he was with Merc with Hammy. But lately I have been wondering about RIC's driving ability being so inconsistent. ? Ric with Mercedes ? Am I missing something or having a Mandela effect moment ? |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:15:52 AM EST
[Last Edit: 20andOUT]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: PER getting beat by VER after a collision, tire death, limping back to the pits, and a 10 sec pen just says volumes about PER. I'm starting to wonder if his contract renewal had a siesta clause in it for during each race. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: Originally Posted By fike: Neat to see George and Oscar be able to clean up the pieces. Max was already in Lando's head going into the race, now ..lol. Insult to injury, Max still finished 5th. Sergio getting beat by a Haas .. I'm starting to wonder if his contract renewal had a siesta clause in it for during each race. In his defense he was in a long battle with Haas. I really don’t think that is an argument in his favor though. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:16:56 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: ? Ric with Mercedes ? Am I missing something or having a Mandela effect moment ? I'm guessing he meant Nico? |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:18:20 AM EST
[#9]
Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore.
lol Lando to Sky Italy: "Will the friendship between Max and me end? I don't know, it will depend on him and how he explains: if he claims to be right it will be over, if he admits that he did something stupid then I will understand." |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:19:10 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: I'm guessing he meant Nico? If that’s the case, the Ham did indeed beat Nico for a few champs but the gap in between the two was never in the same universe than max/checo right now |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:19:32 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Lando to Sky Italy: "Will the friendship between Max and me end? I don't know, it will depend on him and how he explains: if he claims to be right it will be over, if he admits that he did something stupid then I will understand." Post race Max sounded at least unwilling to point blame to Lando. But stopped well short of admitting fault. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:20:01 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Max knows Lando is the only guy that can barely worry him this year. He is trying to kill that hope in the egg |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:20:43 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 20andOUT: Post race Max sounded at least unwilling to point blame to Lando. But stopped well short of admitting fault. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 20andOUT: Originally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Lando to Sky Italy: "Will the friendship between Max and me end? I don't know, it will depend on him and how he explains: if he claims to be right it will be over, if he admits that he did something stupid then I will understand." Post race Max sounded at least unwilling to point blame to Lando. But stopped well short of admitting fault. Said he needed to watch the video, which is about as fair as you can get. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:20:45 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: I use to say the same thing about RIC's car when he was with Merc with Hammy. But lately I have been wondering about RIC's driving ability being so inconsistent. Umm huh |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:23:26 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: ? Ric with Mercedes ? Am I missing something or having a Mandela effect moment ? |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:25:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: Getting old, brain fart got me. I meant RB and Vettel not Hammy. Scrambled eggs for brains this morning Ok, that makes sense. I think the comparison is quite valid then. Vettel was superior for as long as the rules favored a car that matched his driving preferences. I think for Red Bull it’s the same. They are creating and developing a car that suit max driving preferences and abilities 100% . And as they develop it further that way it becomes harder and harder to checo. Still he sucks |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:28:07 AM EST
[#17]
Great race for Hulkenberg!
First time I've seen Toto smile in several years I think. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:28:26 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Said he needed to watch the video, which is about as fair as you can get. Agreed. Impossible for him to judge in the heat of the moment |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:28:29 AM EST
[#19]
Ahhh that was epic.
Monza 2021 vibes all over again. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:29:00 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zhukov: Great race for Hulkenberg! First time I've seen Toto smile in several years I think. Which is the worst thing we got today (Toto smiling) |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:32:03 AM EST
[#21]
I remember Schumacher's teammates used to experience it too; Michael put a lot of time into understanding the car and figuring out that it didn't have to be pleasant to drive to be very fast. His teammates never got over that first hill, so they were always sitting midfield while he was at the front (with the exception of one Martin Brundle...).
I think we're seeing that with Perez. The field has shifted forward slightly, Max knows how to maximize the car, Sergio is stuck unable to find a way to make it go quick. So weird exactly the same thing happened last year. The mid-season plummet in form, I mean. He just cannot get a time out of it. The difference between him and Gasly/Albon is he usually starts out well, but loses momentum. Those guys looked lost from the first lap. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:32:23 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Lando isn’t going to be Max’s friend anymore. lol Lando to Sky Italy: "Will the friendship between Max and me end? I don't know, it will depend on him and how he explains: if he claims to be right it will be over, if he admits that he did something stupid then I will understand." Seems Lando has drawn a line. Max should claim to be right, skip the drama and move on. From my peon perspective, it’s racing put on your big boy pants. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:35:51 AM EST
[#23]
It's a bit weird to me that Max seems more concerned about Lando beating him than the whole WDC. He's winning that easily, and yet we're seeing a response to pressure which seems to be unusual. Perhaps the championship is so devalued to him (because he's walked it twice now) that it's more important to be seen as the top guy than anything else.
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:35:54 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: As much as I’m not a fan of David Valsecchi’s commentary generally, you have to give him credit for standing between Buxton’s and Palmer’s hype and blame game and saying “this is F1. This is what we rave about from 20 and 30 years ago with legendary drivers”. +1....I noticed that also. They were really laying into Max. But...this is literally how Schumi and Senna raced. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:36:57 AM EST
[#25]
Regardless of where you come down on the incident, I think we can all agree that we need an update from Rocketpoweredmohawk.
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USA
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:39:02 AM EST
[#26]
For all the clowns arguing. Riddle me this and tell me what the fall out would have been if it was Hamilton in the lead and he moved under breaking to keep Ver from passing and the same punctures.
Red Bull would have gone nuclear. Calling for Toto to resign. Some of You all posting on here are dense. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:39:02 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: It's a bit weird to me that Max seems more concerned about Lando beating him than the whole WDC. He's winning that easily, and yet we're seeing a response to pressure which seems to be unusual. Perhaps the championship is so devalued to him (because he's walked it twice now) that it's more important to be seen as the top guy than anything else. As I said, I think he knows Lando is the only danger toward his next WDC. (Not a huge one either) I think he wanted to kill that momentum asap. Psychologically max starting losing fair races vs lando could make lando start believing in himself a little too much |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:39:26 AM EST
[#28]
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:40:11 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: It's a bit weird to me that Max seems more concerned about Lando beating him than the whole WDC. He's winning that easily, and yet we're seeing a response to pressure which seems to be unusual. Perhaps the championship is so devalued to him (because he's walked it twice now) that it's more important to be seen as the top guy than anything else. Bro....ask yourself what would Schumi or Senna have done......its an easy answer. Max wants to win Period, because he is the best on the grid. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:42:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: Bro....ask yourself what would Schumi or Senna have done......its an easy answer. Max wants to win Period, because he is the best on the grid. And Shumi once lost all his championship points for bringing it too far. (all while Villeneuve would have never made that corner, if he simply let him through and cross trajectory behind him) |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:42:26 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117:
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:43:13 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: As I said, I think he knows Lando is the only danger toward his next WDC. (Not a huge one either) I think he wanted to kill that momentum asap. Psychologically max starting losing fair races vs lando could make lando start believing in himself a little too much You make me think of how Senna responded to Schumacher in 1992; telling him off in public (Magny Cours) because it was obvious he could see where the next rival was. All because Schumacher in his first full season had the audacity to race Senna. And so it came to be... |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:43:15 AM EST
[#33]
I just hope everyone had a good time
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:43:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117:
I for one miss seing v10s at 18k rpm go out in smoke and flames These were the good days! |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:44:11 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DCV_117:
We don’t need grojean, we’ve got magnussen |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:57:19 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: As much as I’m not a fan of David Valsecchi’s commentary generally, you have to give him credit for standing between Buxton’s and Palmer’s hype and blame game and saying “this is F1. This is what we rave about from 20 and 30 years ago with legendary drivers”. Yep. I've watched the older races and just counted the track limits violations per the modern rules. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:03:31 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Some Red Bull or max fan care to explain why max didn’t get an unsafe release penalty for his first pit stop release ? Because it wasn’t unsafe. The announcers even said it was normal distances before the stewards agreed. You can think it was unsafe, but you’ll be wrong and in the very small minority. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:05:51 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: That’s exactly why this rule exist. It was created when gravel pits were removed and drivers were gaining time by going wide in certain corners You go 5 times in the gravel you never going to get a track limit penalty. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas: That's not how track limits work at all. It doesn't actually matter if you gain time or not. That’s exactly why this rule exist. It was created when gravel pits were removed and drivers were gaining time by going wide in certain corners You go 5 times in the gravel you never going to get a track limit penalty. Norris didn’t get a penalty because he gained time in that instance, he got a penalty because he’d been warned already for doing it too many times (and possibly gaining time on those instances). |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:07:01 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Care to explain why max didn’t get a unsafe release penalty at the first pit ? The reality is that max would rather fuck both of their races rather than lose his duel with lando Croft said it in commentary. They’ve had closer ones that didn’t get a penalty under safety car conditions. Stews probably looked at other precedents in that one. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:14:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: I don't have a dog in the Lando-Max incident, but being as impartial as I can be, it seemed pretty clear that was Max's fault. Is what it is. As least it spiced up the end of the race and has given us five different winners so far this year. It's made this season more interesting than last season, so there's that. Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn’t cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:16:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: Norris didn’t get a penalty because he gained time in that instance, he got a penalty because he’d been warned already for doing it too many times (and possibly gaining time on those instances). Except the fact that the last one he got the penalty for was not the type that the rule exist for in which you gain time. Hell, he even did give the position back and lost even more time for that. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:16:46 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sgthatred: PER getting beat by VER after a collision, tire death, limping back to the pits, and a 10 sec pen just says volumes about PER. 
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:17:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Teamer: Croft said it in commentary. They’ve had closer ones that didn’t get a penalty under safety car conditions. Stews probably looked at other precedents in that one. But this wasn’t under safety car. And lando had to lock tires to avoid the collision. Those excuses don’t stand I’ll post a video as soon as it is available. You can clearly see that Lando must brake to avoid colliding Ie was the one being in the pit lane and had priority. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:23:45 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: Because it wasn’t unsafe. The announcers even said it was normal distances before the stewards agreed. You can think it was unsafe, but you’ll be wrong and in the very small minority. It was so ‘safe’ that Lando had to lock his front wheels to avoid a collision… I guess I was in the minority at the A1 ring today. The majority was wearing orange tshirts ;) ps: not the McLaren orange (wink) |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:29:19 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: It was so ‘safe’ that Lando had to lock his front wheels to avoid a collision… I guess I was in the minority at the A1 ring today. The majority was wearing orange tshirts ;) ps: not the McLaren orange (wink) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Originally Posted By D_J: Because it wasn’t unsafe. The announcers even said it was normal distances before the stewards agreed. You can think it was unsafe, but you’ll be wrong and in the very small minority. It was so ‘safe’ that Lando had to lock his front wheels to avoid a collision… I guess I was in the minority at the A1 ring today. The majority was wearing orange tshirts ;) ps: not the McLaren orange (wink) When everyone in the thread disagrees, and the commentators disagree, and the stewards disagree … that’s when it’s time to accept your opinion is wrong and move on. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:29:28 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn’t cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. I could be wrong, but I thought the second contact was because of Max's puncture. I think Lando was just able to hold the line while Max couldn't because of the tire. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:33:42 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: When everyone in the thread disagrees, and the commentators disagree, and the stewards disagree … that’s when it’s time to accept your opinion is wrong and move on. That’s what they told Galileo too ;) Ps: commentators and stewards are wrong more often than they are right ;) And this can be demonstrated ;) As for ‘people in this thread’ , joker ;) Then again, I might be wrong if Lando locked because he got scared. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:46:22 AM EST
[#48]
Its racing w big boy pants Lando. Put them on or shut up.
IDC if its Max fault, in all honesty this should help Lando understand better on how to deal w Max. You cant outbully him so he needs to be better at other aspects. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 11:50:02 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: I could be wrong, but I thought the second contact was because of Max's puncture. I think Lando was just able to hold the line while Max couldn't because of the tire. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: Originally Posted By D_J: Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn’t cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. I could be wrong, but I thought the second contact was because of Max's puncture. I think Lando was just able to hold the line while Max couldn't because of the tire. That was my take as well. The second bit of contact was because Max was only on three tires already. There’s some seriously good reactions on page 137. Anyone blaming Lando for that contact is delusional. At the end of the day both drivers crossed the line throughout the entirety of the battle. And we get to do it again next week.  |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 12:12:16 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn't cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By D_J: Originally Posted By tifosi: I don't have a dog in the Lando-Max incident, but being as impartial as I can be, it seemed pretty clear that was Max's fault. Is what it is. As least it spiced up the end of the race and has given us five different winners so far this year. It's made this season more interesting than last season, so there's that. Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn't cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. I think they were both getting frustrated with each other at that point . Plenty of blame to go around, as I see it. |
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