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Posted: 6/30/2024 7:05:12 PM EST
[#1]
It's a bit of good luck for Max (and RB) that the three races he didn't win were won by three different drivers, giving him a bit of breather.
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Posted: 6/30/2024 7:38:56 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mars87: I'm not wasting my time looking at that because it isn't relevant to me. Lead lap cars shouldn't get DRS off lapped cars. Oh I agree. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:02:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: redfish86]
[#3]
Finally watching the replay of the race (missed it this am)
Fuck Checo, he’s a menace Max is a fucking clown. Lando got fucked dry “Track limits” is stupid Congrats to George for being in the right place at the right time |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:28:42 PM EST
[#4]
Great seeing fighting at the front, even though it ended prematurely. Even though Max has been my favorite driver since his debut, I’m at the point where I love to see anyone else perform and win (except Lewis).
Max was at fault in that case. Shit tends to happen when the heat is on. I for one hope every race has them battling like this. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:40:01 PM EST
[#5]
I was just watching the F2 highlight reel.
The names bandied about for an F1 seat are 9th, Antonelli, and 14th, Bearman, in the F2 championship. Why don't we hear about any of the top 5 ? |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 8:51:22 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: The DRS is why Lando was able to stay on Max. Go back and look, Max didn't have the DRS benefit most of the time while Lando did. Which offset his having to run in Max’s dirty air which killed his downforce. I thought we all understood this by now. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:02:25 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danpass: A bit surprised. Max was able to keep 5th for points so I imagine NOR could have come away with some points regardless. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danpass: Originally Posted By tifosi: Originally Posted By danpass: Is it known why McLaren DNF'd NOR's car? Just my guess. A bit surprised. Max was able to keep 5th for points so I imagine NOR could have come away with some points regardless. By the time Norris got back to the pit, he lost so many places there was no way. Besides, bits of his car were flinging all over from the shredded tire whipping around so lord knows how much shit was damaged beyond repair. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:04:00 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fredegar: Great seeing fighting at the front, even though it ended prematurely. Even though Max has been my favorite driver since his debut, I'm at the point where I love to see anyone else perform and win (except Lewis). Max was at fault in that case. Shit tends to happen when the heat is on. I for one hope every race has them battling like this. They were both driving aggressively. The actual contact in the crash was Max's fault and then Lando drove his car into Max on the 2nd contact. While I guess technically not against the rules dive bombing the corner was dangerous on Lando's part in the previous laps. I actually like Lando but he needs to own his own on track behavior. Last week on the start he pushed Max off the track into the grass which allowed Russell to go from 3rd to 1st in the very first corner of the race 
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Posted: 6/30/2024 9:48:40 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HRJ: Which offset his having to run in Max’s dirty air which killed his downforce. I thought we all understood this by now. LOL false, they were all running in dirty air bud. |
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Posted: 6/30/2024 10:33:54 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By danpass: I was just watching the F2 highlight reel. The names bandied about for an F1 seat are 9th, Antonelli, and 14th, Bearman, in the F2 championship. Why don't we hear about any of the top 5 ? That, is a very good question, and one a lot of observers are asking. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 5:03:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: Shung]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 462W1: I have a comparison. I coach American football. My kids like to come off the field complaining about holding or some other penalty. I ask if the ref threw a flag. If they say no then it's over. The ref makes the call. In F1 the stewards make the call on all of these penalties. They are all drivers who have raced at the highest level of motorsports. If they say it wasn't an unsafe release it's over. Doesn't matter what we think. Doesn't matter what Lando or anyone else thinks. Advocating for three pages isn't going to change it. Just beating a dead horse. While we are on the philosophical topic.. Same logic says Biden won the 2020 elections fair and square. The referee said so. Let it go then.. Now watch what happens in 2024 For referees to be trusted they need to show consistency. Which incidentally they haven’t in f1 for a long time |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 5:06:40 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By poison123: LOL false, they were all running in dirty air bud. Max was running in the dirty air ??? The lapped guys didn’t stay more than a few seconds in front of him |
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USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 7:15:32 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: They were both driving aggressively. The actual contact in the crash was Max's fault and then Lando drove his car into Max on the 2nd contact. While I guess technically not against the rules dive bombing the corner was dangerous on Lando's part in the previous laps. I actually like Lando but he needs to own his own on track behavior. Last week on the start he pushed Max off the track into the grass which allowed Russell to go from 3rd to 1st in the very first corner of the race Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Originally Posted By fredegar: Great seeing fighting at the front, even though it ended prematurely. Even though Max has been my favorite driver since his debut, I'm at the point where I love to see anyone else perform and win (except Lewis). Max was at fault in that case. Shit tends to happen when the heat is on. I for one hope every race has them battling like this. They were both driving aggressively. The actual contact in the crash was Max's fault and then Lando drove his car into Max on the 2nd contact. While I guess technically not against the rules dive bombing the corner was dangerous on Lando's part in the previous laps. I actually like Lando but he needs to own his own on track behavior. Last week on the start he pushed Max off the track into the grass which allowed Russell to go from 3rd to 1st in the very first corner of the race I agree with this but chalk it up to racing. As long as they are both being safely agressive shit will happen but that’s racing. Max came straight on the radio and said it was his fault. Shows a lot of respect. Max and lando are going to be a great battle to watch as time goes on. Happy for lando he’s in a car to do it with. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 8:47:00 AM EST
[#14]
Rewatching the race I was struck by how fussy Max seemed to be; a lot of anxious traffic about the car - he's out in front - I can't help but wonder if Norris had got into his head. He's such a strong kid but seemed to need a bit of an arm from GP.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 8:59:03 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: Rewatching the race I was struck by how fussy Max seemed to be; a lot of anxious traffic about the car - he's out in front - I can't help but wonder if Norris had got into his head. He's such a strong kid but seemed to need a bit of an arm from GP. They are all fussy under pressure. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 9:07:13 AM EST
[#16]
 Attached File |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 9:11:01 AM EST
[#17]
Lol.
Burn.... |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 9:17:57 AM EST
[#18]
Just caught up on the sprint and the race so I’m a little late to the party but here is my takeaways from the weekend.
1. I still really like the current sprint weekend format and look forward to them. Sprint qualifying and a sprint race are worlds more entertaining than FP2 and FP3. I’d like to see sprint weekends somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the calendar. 2. The black cloud that’s followed LeClerc his whole F1 career seems to be back. Ferrari doing Ferrari things screwed him in the sprint and the 3 into 1 Perez and Piastri sandwich screwed him in the race. Qualifying was on him but that’s to be expected with LeClerc, he goes 100% during qualifying and sometimes pushes a little too hard but he’s also got 24 pole positions and hasn’t had the best car on the grid for any of them, it’s pretty impressive what he can do over one lap. 3. The Lando/Max was in motion since lap 1, turn 1 last week in Spain. Lando had a whole week to stew about bitching out and going from 1st to 3rd, I think he had made up his mind before the weekend started that next time he wouldn’t back down. Combine that with Max’s well known “either you blink or we have a big crash” method of defense and it was always going to happen if they found themselves on the same piece of track at the same time. 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. 5. Checo fucking sucks. He’ll probably be 7th in the drivers championship by the summer break and 8th at the end of the season. Just give the seat to Lawson for the rest of the season, he couldn’t do worse. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 9:42:21 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. Norris caught up with Max and if he had passed him he very well should have pulled away based on his pace. I am not sure how that shows RB dominance? McLaren has obviously improved their car to the point where they are often faster than RB late race. It is really great to see honestly and gives me high hopes for the remainder of the season. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:07:23 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SemperGumbi: Norris caught up with Max and if he had passed him he very well should have pulled away based on his pace. I am not sure how that shows RB dominance? McLaren has obviously improved their car to the point where they are often faster than RB late race. It is really great to see honestly and gives me high hopes for the remainder of the season. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By Mblades: 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. Norris caught up with Max and if he had passed him he very well should have pulled away based on his pace. I am not sure how that shows RB dominance? McLaren has obviously improved their car to the point where they are often faster than RB late race. It is really great to see honestly and gives me high hopes for the remainder of the season. He only caught up to him because of the botched pit stop from RB(and also a bit of Max’s lockup on the out lap). Max had a 7 second lead when he pulled into the pits. If not for that long stop Lando would have had to use up his tire offset just to catch Max, then the problem of passing Max, all while staying within track limits with 19 laps to go is a tall order. Everyone hopes to see a fight for the titles and for things to get close the remainder of the season but I don’t see it happening. The RB is still that good. Right now max is 81 points ahead in the drivers championship and RB is 64 ahead in the constructors. I’d be willing to bet both of those margins are larger not smaller at the end of the season. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:36:14 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SemperGumbi: Norris caught up with Max and if he had passed him he very well should have pulled away based on his pace. I am not sure how that shows RB dominance? McLaren has obviously improved their car to the point where they are often faster than RB late race. It is really great to see honestly and gives me high hopes for the remainder of the season. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SemperGumbi: Originally Posted By Mblades: 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. Norris caught up with Max and if he had passed him he very well should have pulled away based on his pace. I am not sure how that shows RB dominance? McLaren has obviously improved their car to the point where they are often faster than RB late race. It is really great to see honestly and gives me high hopes for the remainder of the season. The bad Red Bull pit stop and then having to hold Max until Lando passed limited the late chase effort we have been seeing. Until that point, the sprint, qualifying, and the race were fairly classical examples of Max being a couple of steps ahead. The real difference maker recently has been the McLaren’s ability to push harder (and maintain tire deg) later in the race when the cars are lighter. We have also seen the Red Bull struggle to find the balance over the course of the three free practices. That didn’t happen this weekend when they should have been the most vulnerable. McLaren is “right there”, but for better or worse, it takes an uncharacteristic mistake from Red Bull or late lap heroics to have a chance. Odds are very high that Red Bull is going to “spend” aero credits and develop a similar flexible front wing concept as McLaren. We might see a version in free practice at Silverstone, but I would guess Hungary. As soon as they can get it to work, all bets are off. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:39:50 AM EST
[#22]
Are we seeing the Newey (not working or working hard for RB anymore) Effect on the RB20s?
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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:49:40 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stampkolektor: Are we seeing the Newey (not working or working hard for RB anymore) Effect on the RB20s? No. We are seeing a combination of convergence of philosophy in design, scaled aero restrictions, the law of diminishing returns, and a clever application of the rules from McLaren (and I’m not being derogatory). |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 10:51:14 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stampkolektor: Are we seeing the Newey (not working or working hard for RB anymore) Effect on the RB20s? I don’t think anyone can deny Newey’s ability to design and execute a car. But, he’s only one part of an enormous engineering team, which doesn’t get the credit they [most certainly] deserve. I highly, highly doubt RB put all their eggs into “one basket” with Newey. That’s a lot to say, I don’t think so. RB would have to be monumentally stupid to have placed everything on Newey. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 11:17:55 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sledhead907: I don't think anyone can deny Newey's ability to design and execute a car. But, he's only one part of an enormous engineering team, which doesn't get the credit they [most certainly] deserve. I highly, highly doubt RB put all their eggs into "one basket" with Newey. That's a lot to say, I don't think so. RB would have to be monumentally stupid to have placed everything on Newey. the moment they bought the Stewart/Jaguar team. He's been with them essentially from the start (except 2005). His departure is going to leave a big hole. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 12:40:41 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mblades: Just caught up on the sprint and the race so I’m a little late to the party but here is my takeaways from the weekend. 1. I still really like the current sprint weekend format and look forward to them. Sprint qualifying and a sprint race are worlds more entertaining than FP2 and FP3. I’d like to see sprint weekends somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the calendar. 2. The black cloud that’s followed LeClerc his whole F1 career seems to be back. Ferrari doing Ferrari things screwed him in the sprint and the 3 into 1 Perez and Piastri sandwich screwed him in the race. Qualifying was on him but that’s to be expected with LeClerc, he goes 100% during qualifying and sometimes pushes a little too hard but he’s also got 24 pole positions and hasn’t had the best car on the grid for any of them, it’s pretty impressive what he can do over one lap. 3. The Lando/Max was in motion since lap 1, turn 1 last week in Spain. Lando had a whole week to stew about bitching out and going from 1st to 3rd, I think he had made up his mind before the weekend started that next time he wouldn’t back down. Combine that with Max’s well known “either you blink or we have a big crash” method of defense and it was always going to happen if they found themselves on the same piece of track at the same time. 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. 5. Checo fucking sucks. He’ll probably be 7th in the drivers championship by the summer break and 8th at the end of the season. Just give the seat to Lawson for the rest of the season, he couldn’t do worse. Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance. McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 12:51:12 PM EST
[#27]
The field is getting a bit tighter and it’s making for an exciting season.
I wonder if Newey left his notebook at the lunch table?? 😁 |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 12:55:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: sledhead907]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: I don't disagree with your general point, but let's not forget that Newey was a key part of RB's long term plans from the moment they bought the Stewart/Jaguar team. He's been with them essentially from the start (except 2005). His departure is going to leave a big hole. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tifosi: Originally Posted By sledhead907: I don't think anyone can deny Newey's ability to design and execute a car. But, he's only one part of an enormous engineering team, which doesn't get the credit they [most certainly] deserve. I highly, highly doubt RB put all their eggs into "one basket" with Newey. That's a lot to say, I don't think so. RB would have to be monumentally stupid to have placed everything on Newey. the moment they bought the Stewart/Jaguar team. He's been with them essentially from the start (except 2005). His departure is going to leave a big hole. I can’t disagree. But, the honeymoon was always going to end. Newey, like much in F1, was only “theirs” today with no guarantee of tomorrow. I think we’ll see over the next season, and for sure 2026 what impact Newey leaving had on the team. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 12:58:24 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance. McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By Mblades: Just caught up on the sprint and the race so I'm a little late to the party but here is my takeaways from the weekend. 1. I still really like the current sprint weekend format and look forward to them. Sprint qualifying and a sprint race are worlds more entertaining than FP2 and FP3. I'd like to see sprint weekends somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the calendar. 2. The black cloud that's followed LeClerc his whole F1 career seems to be back. Ferrari doing Ferrari things screwed him in the sprint and the 3 into 1 Perez and Piastri sandwich screwed him in the race. Qualifying was on him but that's to be expected with LeClerc, he goes 100% during qualifying and sometimes pushes a little too hard but he's also got 24 pole positions and hasn't had the best car on the grid for any of them, it's pretty impressive what he can do over one lap. 3. The Lando/Max was in motion since lap 1, turn 1 last week in Spain. Lando had a whole week to stew about bitching out and going from 1st to 3rd, I think he had made up his mind before the weekend started that next time he wouldn't back down. Combine that with Max's well known "either you blink or we have a big crash" method of defense and it was always going to happen if they found themselves on the same piece of track at the same time. 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn't for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We'll see what happens next week but I'm guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. 5. Checo fucking sucks. He'll probably be 7th in the drivers championship by the summer break and 8th at the end of the season. Just give the seat to Lawson for the rest of the season, he couldn't do worse. Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance. McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. Lando would have had to run a perfect race to beat Max because of the track limit violations. He picked up a 5 second penalty by dive bombing a corner trying to pass Max. Just for that he'd have to pull ahead 5 seconds of Max (assuming he passed cleanly and the crash didn't happen) with less than 8 laps to go. Another track limit violation would have been 10 seconds. Could he pull ahead of Max by 5 seconds and not get a 10 second penalty? Maybe, but with the way he was driving a 5th episode wasn't a stretch of the imagination. Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 12:59:27 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance. McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By Mblades: Just caught up on the sprint and the race so I’m a little late to the party but here is my takeaways from the weekend. 1. I still really like the current sprint weekend format and look forward to them. Sprint qualifying and a sprint race are worlds more entertaining than FP2 and FP3. I’d like to see sprint weekends somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of the calendar. 2. The black cloud that’s followed LeClerc his whole F1 career seems to be back. Ferrari doing Ferrari things screwed him in the sprint and the 3 into 1 Perez and Piastri sandwich screwed him in the race. Qualifying was on him but that’s to be expected with LeClerc, he goes 100% during qualifying and sometimes pushes a little too hard but he’s also got 24 pole positions and hasn’t had the best car on the grid for any of them, it’s pretty impressive what he can do over one lap. 3. The Lando/Max was in motion since lap 1, turn 1 last week in Spain. Lando had a whole week to stew about bitching out and going from 1st to 3rd, I think he had made up his mind before the weekend started that next time he wouldn’t back down. Combine that with Max’s well known “either you blink or we have a big crash” method of defense and it was always going to happen if they found themselves on the same piece of track at the same time. 4. The crash overshadowed the fact RB is as dominant as ever. If it wasn’t for the botched pit stop Max would have finished 10 seconds ahead of anyone in the field. He won the sprint race by almost 5 seconds and qualified 4/10ths ahead of everyone on the shortest lap of the year. We’ll see what happens next week but I’m guessing the RB is going to be the fastest car out there again. 5. Checo fucking sucks. He’ll probably be 7th in the drivers championship by the summer break and 8th at the end of the season. Just give the seat to Lawson for the rest of the season, he couldn’t do worse. Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance. McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. TBF, Max was on a used set of Medium’s with unknown laps already accumulated. I don’t think Lando would’ve caught Max if it wasn’t for the slow stop; Max was much faster all weekend up to that point. That said, I think RB was compromised by not saving a new set of Mediums for the 2nd stop. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:09:58 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. They applied it in Austria. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:20:00 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: They applied it in Austria. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By Rebel31: Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. They applied it in Austria. I was told he gets a 3 place penalty at the start next weekend. I don’t agree with it. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:23:49 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Lando would have had to run a perfect race to beat Max because of the track limit violations. He picked up a 5 second penalty by dive bombing a corner trying to pass Max. Just for that he'd have to pull ahead 5 seconds of Max (assuming he passed cleanly and the crash didn't happen) with less than 8 laps to go. Another track limit violation would have been 10 seconds. Could he pull ahead of Max by 5 seconds and not get a 10 second penalty? Maybe, but with the way he was driving a 5th episode wasn't a stretch of the imagination. Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. In a move of brilliance the Mclaren team didn't touch Lando's car for 5 seconds after he returned to the pits with the shredded tire. Even though he retired they effectively served the penalty before doing so. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:23:50 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: I was told he gets a 3 place penalty at the start next weekend. I don’t agree with it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By fike: Originally Posted By Rebel31: Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. They applied it in Austria. I was told he gets a 3 place penalty at the start next weekend. I don’t agree with it.
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:28:14 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike:
Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:35:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: exDefensorMilitas]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By fike:
Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. The gravel wasn't there to indicate track limits. It was there to serve as a more severe consequence for going well past track limits; so there wasn't a repeat of last year since track limits violations are manually reviewed. ETA: Track limits in the "official" sense, that is still the white line. But what is the official track limit of a circuit and what is the drivable track limit are often different. The gravel was there to change the latter and not the former. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:43:52 PM EST
[#37]
Here are the gap times in the laps leading up to the pit stop where Max lost almost of his lead over Lando and a couple of laps afterwards.
44 6.761 45 6.583 46 6.706 47 6.778 48 7.192 49 7.093 50 6.901 51 PIT 52 1.792 53 1.036 So in the 7 laps before the bad RB pit Lando actually lost time compared to Max, and was only able to catch him because of the pit stop fuckup. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 1:55:55 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: because of the track limit violations. He picked up a 5 second penalty by dive bombing a corner trying to pass Max. He gave it back, and thus no advantage gained. My understanding of the rule is that the driver must gain an advantage to qualify for a penalty. For example, when Max then did it and used it to keep the place. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 2:40:49 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Lando was gaining on Max before the stop. No he wasn’t, Max had a little over 7 second lead on Lando when he pitted on lap 51, go back to lap 31 and his lead was 7 seconds, he was managing from lap 1 The stop just accelerated the closing of the gap. Lando then caught up because he got within DRS distance.the only reason he got within DRS was due to the slow stop McLaren had the better car. Max was defending the entire time Lando was on him. Mcalaren didn’t have the better car, they got smashed in the sprint, smashed in qualifying and Max had 51 of 71 laps of uneventful racing at the front. Max was defending because Lando had 3 DRS zones and 7 lap fresher tires Max had difficulty getting away from the Haas cars. I assume you mean Perez and if so that’s a testament to how shitty of a driver he is, not anything wrong with the RB |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 2:42:31 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By fike:
Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. What are you talking about? The gravel worked as intended. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 2:55:38 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Good Thanks. The gravel was useless for indicating track limits. Disturbing gravel should make it obvious. White line is what indicates track limits. The gravel was put in as extra deterrent to hopefully stop the drivers from doing it so frequently as the last race there. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 3:03:49 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captexas: White line is what indicates track limits. The gravel was put in as extra deterrent to hopefully stop the drivers from doing it so frequently as the last race there. Yet we still had tons of issues. My point is, they STILL had tons of problems with track limits that negatively affected the race beyond other circuits. Let disturbance of the gravel make the call so it is obvious to the drivers and stewards. Drivers should know immediately they had a track limits event. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 3:37:09 PM EST
[#43]
I feel like automating the track limits issue would be easy. Either through embedded sensors or cameras via AI.
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OR, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 3:39:42 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Yet we still had tons of issues. My point is, they STILL had tons of problems with track limits that negatively affected the race beyond other circuits. Let disturbance of the gravel make the call so it is obvious to the drivers and stewards. Drivers should know immediately they had a track limits event. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By captexas: White line is what indicates track limits. The gravel was put in as extra deterrent to hopefully stop the drivers from doing it so frequently as the last race there. Yet we still had tons of issues. My point is, they STILL had tons of problems with track limits that negatively affected the race beyond other circuits. Let disturbance of the gravel make the call so it is obvious to the drivers and stewards. Drivers should know immediately they had a track limits event. Tons of issues? Tons of problems? Did anyone but Lando get a penalty? Compare that to the 1200+ infringements in the race last year and I think the track limit issue was completely resolved by a couple strips of gravel and universally praised as the right solution. I think you are the only person unhappy with the track limit fix for this year. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:15:25 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Yet we still had tons of issues. My point is, they STILL had tons of problems with track limits that negatively affected the race beyond other circuits. Let disturbance of the gravel make the call so it is obvious to the drivers and stewards. Drivers should know immediately they had a track limits event. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By captexas: White line is what indicates track limits. The gravel was put in as extra deterrent to hopefully stop the drivers from doing it so frequently as the last race there. Yet we still had tons of issues. My point is, they STILL had tons of problems with track limits that negatively affected the race beyond other circuits. Let disturbance of the gravel make the call so it is obvious to the drivers and stewards. Drivers should know immediately they had a track limits event. That has never been a thing in F1, or really any top racing series that I'm aware. "Disturbing" gravel isn't a problem in F1/2/3, IMSA, WEC, Indy. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:20:02 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fike: The bad Red Bull pit stop and then having to hold Max until Lando passed limited the late chase effort we have been seeing. Until that point, the sprint, qualifying, and the race were fairly classical examples of Max being a couple of steps ahead. The real difference maker recently has been the McLaren’s ability to push harder (and maintain tire deg) later in the race when the cars are lighter. We have also seen the Red Bull struggle to find the balance over the course of the three free practices. That didn’t happen this weekend when they should have been the most vulnerable. McLaren is “right there”, but for better or worse, it takes an uncharacteristic mistake from Red Bull or late lap heroics to have a chance. Odds are very high that Red Bull is going to “spend” aero credits and develop a similar flexible front wing concept as McLaren. We might see a version in free practice at Silverstone, but I would guess Hungary. As soon as they can get it to work, all bets are off. Agree with this. People say that McLaren has the fastest car, but I’m not buying it. Their car appears faster in the later parts of a race, but before that, RB is faster. Even if a McLaren gets in front at the start, Max will usually get by. If Max is ahead and stays ahead, he usually can build a gap. McLaren always seems to be chasing, not leading, and doesn’t become a real threat until near the end of the race, suggesting their speed is due to better tire deg as the fuel weight comes off. To win, McLaren need to have the pace to get in the lead early and stay there, not stay behind for most of the race and hope you can get by in the closing laps. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:47:29 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: I could be wrong, but I thought the second contact was because of Max's puncture. I think Lando was just able to hold the line while Max couldn't because of the tire. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drewptwo: Originally Posted By D_J: Max definitely turned into Lando, trying to push him wide - hence the penalty. What he didn’t cause was Lando to intentionally hit him a second time with his right front. That was just retaliation. I also agree that Max probably made too many moves under braking at least once or twice while Lando made several unsafe dive bombs to the inside (a Hamilton signature move). So neither are innocent and it made for some exciting racing before they wrecked each other. I could be wrong, but I thought the second contact was because of Max's puncture. I think Lando was just able to hold the line while Max couldn't because of the tire. I didn't watch it multiple times, but they did replay it via multiple angles and I'm pretty certain Lando is clearly turning right into Max's rear wheel vs. continuing straight or sweeping around the car. I could be wrong, but it sure looked like that to me. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:51:42 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Lando would have had to run a perfect race to beat Max because of the track limit violations. He picked up a 5 second penalty by dive bombing a corner trying to pass Max. Just for that he'd have to pull ahead 5 seconds of Max (assuming he passed cleanly and the crash didn't happen) with less than 8 laps to go. Another track limit violation would have been 10 seconds. Could he pull ahead of Max by 5 seconds and not get a 10 second penalty? Maybe, but with the way he was driving a 5th episode wasn't a stretch of the imagination. Speaking of which did Lando actually serve the penalty? If not it will carry over to Silverstone. When lando stopped at the pit, the crew waited 5 sec before even touching the car, this paying the penalty |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:51:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: That’s what they told Galileo too ;) Ps: commentators and stewards are wrong more often than they are right ;) And this can be demonstrated ;) As for ‘people in this thread’ , joker ;) Then again, I might be wrong if Lando locked because he got scared. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Shung: Originally Posted By D_J: When everyone in the thread disagrees, and the commentators disagree, and the stewards disagree … that’s when it’s time to accept your opinion is wrong and move on. That’s what they told Galileo too ;) Ps: commentators and stewards are wrong more often than they are right ;) And this can be demonstrated ;) As for ‘people in this thread’ , joker ;) Then again, I might be wrong if Lando locked because he got scared. I would not put it past a driver - especially a driver fighting for a race win - to intentionally lock the brakes, trying to help convince stewards that the race leader unsafely left their pit. The drama and blame-game'ing in F1 rivals the fake injuries of soccer. |
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Posted: 7/1/2024 4:53:08 PM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Esterhase: He gave it back, and thus no advantage gained. My understanding of the rule is that the driver must gain an advantage to qualify for a penalty. For example, when Max then did it and used it to keep the place. Exactly. Track limits do not apply in case of loss of control or accident. Time must be gained |
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