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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:36:00 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: They’re fighting our (certainly Europe’s) fight. We should be paying them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By AROKIE: Does Ukraine have any obligation to pay any of the billions loaned so far back?. That is of course they prevail They’re fighting our (certainly Europe’s) fight. We should be paying them. We are paying them |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:38:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: MattyCR]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: We know Russia has 76 BTGs in Donbas. What is opposing them? Ive seen 22 RU BTGs capable, (defending) basically everyone that has been in the east (a lot) and a lot of infantry from the north have moved into the area to defend and push through. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:41:14 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: We know Russia has 76 BTGs in Donbas. What is opposing them? My growing list so far: Directly engaged along the front line stretching from N of Kharkiv to Kherson (Includes National guard, local units like TDF and other established groups, active army/navy maneuver units) 34 Brigades (Inf, Mech, Motor, Tank, AirAslt etc) 7 Battalions 5 Regiments There's an easy 10 more brigades Ukraine can redeploy from Odessa/Kyiv. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:44:05 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattyCR: We are paying them That’s my point. What’s this about “paying back” the aid? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:49:51 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 58Teague: My growing list so far: Directly engaged along the front line stretching from N of Kharkiv to Kherson (Includes National guard, local units like TDF and other established groups, active army/navy maneuver units) 34 Brigades (Inf, Mech, Motor, Tank, AirAslt etc) 7 Battalions 5 Regiments There's an easy 10 more brigades Ukraine can redeploy from Odessa/Kyiv. Odessa troops arent going anywhere, Kyiv is rolling in though. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 12:49:58 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: I can't comprehend it either. I think a lot of them are just eaten up with the Q psyop, but that seems like an oversimplified excuse for it. Outside of church, they seem to have lost it locally. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grambosc: Originally Posted By racer765: all of my conservative friends/family are "fuck vlad" the few rinos and libs in my life are also "fuck vlad" I don't comprehend anyone taking a different position on this. did thy also back Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait? I can't comprehend it either. I think a lot of them are just eaten up with the Q psyop, but that seems like an oversimplified excuse for it. Outside of church, they seem to have lost it locally. The goal of most really effective propaganda is to get your to personalize and internalize it. Once their positions become YOUR positions, nothing is harder than admitting you were wrong. Most people will turn backflips justifying why they aren’t wrong even when any reasonable examination shows they are. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:40:19 AM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: When this party first kicked off, it was really hard to imagine any outcome other than Russia wrecking Ukraine and taking over. I expected Kyiv to last maybe 2-3 weeks, but at the end of the first week, there started to be more and more eyebrow raisers. After a few weeks had passed, the reality of the situation seemed clearly and obviously to be the opposite. The Russian military is a total goat rodeo, and they failed at the most basic things. They don't have secure comms, they don't have stable logistics, their systems aren't maintained and don't function... That's before we get into one of the most powerful forces in combat, and that's motivation. The Ukranians are VERY motivated. The Russians are not. While the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence, their homeland, and their sovereignty, there's no cause for the Russian soldiers to want to fight, and quite a few of them have chosen not to. With the amount of equipment we've seen abandoned and the various reporting we've seen, the number of deserters is probably very high. Perhaps 10k+. When you combine that motivation with NATO supplied weapons, it's a solid no-win scenario for Russia. Even if they had taken out the Ukrainian government, the subsequent occupation scenario would have made US operations in OEF and OIF look like easy mode. An educated and highly motivated resistance/insurgency with an endless supply of advanced weapons and intel from the world's most capable nations? Fuuuuuuuuck that. No military in the world can hold that ground. You’re a solid unit Bassgasm. I salute you. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 1:53:14 AM EST
[#8]
 WAR 2022 - ????? ????? |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 2:37:29 AM EST
[#9]
 Failed To Load Title Attacks on the positions of in the industrial zone of Mariupol  Failed To Load Title Footage of the work of helicopter crews to cover and escort columns in the Kharkov direction  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 3:14:25 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Not slang, he’s talking about hp/expanding bullets vs fmj. That is why he is gesturing with and displaying the mag at the end. The video isn’t clear enough to make that apparent (or maybe they aren’t?). To me all I can tell is they *might* be black tipped, thus AP. Which are not prohibited, but I can’t tell. So yes, the Orcs are dropping missiles on well-marked civilian shelters, and then publicly whining about the fact that Ukr forces might have had to scrounge up commercial small arms ammo… As mentioned, I think it may be jsp. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By realwar: It's probably a Russian slang for confiscated weapons. Not slang, he’s talking about hp/expanding bullets vs fmj. That is why he is gesturing with and displaying the mag at the end. The video isn’t clear enough to make that apparent (or maybe they aren’t?). To me all I can tell is they *might* be black tipped, thus AP. Which are not prohibited, but I can’t tell. So yes, the Orcs are dropping missiles on well-marked civilian shelters, and then publicly whining about the fact that Ukr forces might have had to scrounge up commercial small arms ammo… As mentioned, I think it may be jsp. So Russia can make it a crime to call it a war but then claim War Crimes. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 3:57:25 AM EST
[#11]
Mariupol On The Brink Of Surrender With 21,000 Dead
 Mariupol On The Brink Of Surrender With 21,000 Dead |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 4:44:07 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Russian MLRS Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glock63: Originally Posted By cpermd: What are grads? Russian MLRS MLRS has become like the term Coke and used to refer to many things that are not Coke. In the case of MLRS it refers to the M270 series rocket launcher. All others are multiple rocket launchers or MRLs |
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NZL
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Posted: 4/19/2022 4:59:24 AM EST
[#13]
UA artillery strike on dispersed and camouflaged RU position. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:21:55 AM EST
[#14]
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:25:51 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: You’re a solid unit Bassgasm. I salute you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dillydilly: Originally Posted By Bassgasm: When this party first kicked off, it was really hard to imagine any outcome other than Russia wrecking Ukraine and taking over. I expected Kyiv to last maybe 2-3 weeks, but at the end of the first week, there started to be more and more eyebrow raisers. After a few weeks had passed, the reality of the situation seemed clearly and obviously to be the opposite. The Russian military is a total goat rodeo, and they failed at the most basic things. They don't have secure comms, they don't have stable logistics, their systems aren't maintained and don't function... That's before we get into one of the most powerful forces in combat, and that's motivation. The Ukranians are VERY motivated. The Russians are not. While the Ukrainians are fighting for their existence, their homeland, and their sovereignty, there's no cause for the Russian soldiers to want to fight, and quite a few of them have chosen not to. With the amount of equipment we've seen abandoned and the various reporting we've seen, the number of deserters is probably very high. Perhaps 10k+. When you combine that motivation with NATO supplied weapons, it's a solid no-win scenario for Russia. Even if they had taken out the Ukrainian government, the subsequent occupation scenario would have made US operations in OEF and OIF look like easy mode. An educated and highly motivated resistance/insurgency with an endless supply of advanced weapons and intel from the world's most capable nations? Fuuuuuuuuck that. No military in the world can hold that ground. You’re a solid unit Bassgasm. I salute you. He's 100% right. Between their national identity, the absolute lousiness of what awaits them if the Russians take over, and the genocide/atrocities, the motivation of the Ukrainians is off the charts. They are fighting to avoid a genocide. It is absolute total war for them. The only reason anyone thinks that is the case is people assume if the Russians lose Putin would be deposed. That's debatable, and that explains why one man is motivated. The indicators are everywhere as to Russian lack of fighting spirit for this. It is both vitally important and hard to quantify. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:28:21 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't find the heart to forgive them for what they did to Hungary in 1956. My grandfather and great grandfather died together frozen and naked in a prison.. Beaten..starved..tortured and left naked . They died clinging to each other as a father and son...and the fucken Russians and commie Hungarians thought it was funny.... I hate communism with all my heart.. I hate russia with every fiber of my being. I want them to apologize and beg forgiveness to my dad for putting a bullet in his back and shrapnels also. I want them grounded to powder into a nothing burger. 3rd world shithole.. Of nothingness..I want them shitting in the ground and wiping their ass with their hands...that's how savage I want them return to. It blows my mind. Imagine being so smooth brained that someone actually backs the Orcs in all of this. The lesson they are being taught, is a lesson 80+ years coming. It will be epic. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:33:58 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: All this heavy equipment needs fuel. If Ukraine forces can shut down the fuel supply the equipment is useless. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MADMAXXX: Originally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. If Ukraine forces can shut down the fuel supply the equipment is useless. Agreed. I have noticed that the damage assessments have been stuck at 76 Russian fuel trucks for awhile now. Some reports of Russia making efforts to disguise fuel trucks as normal supplies. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:37:51 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MostlyPeaceful: Agreed. I have noticed that the damage assessments have been stuck at 76 Russian fuel trucks for awhile now. Some reports of Russia making efforts to disguise fuel trucks as normal supplies. Also don't forget about the pipeline troops. Any established Russian position is likely supplied by pipelines at this point. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:45:56 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Go whine somewhere else. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By FALFOX: I have been avoiding posting here because I know it will likely turn into a pissing match, and no one wants that. However, I need to say my piece. A great many of you have lost your fucking minds. Listen, I'm a cold war kid - I love seeing Russian tanks go boom just like everybody in here. I want Russia to lose this war. But they're not going to. Why? Because they are all in. They are about to roll over the fucking country, moving city to city, pounding them with MLRS and turning them into rubble one after the other, and the only question now is whether the world is willing to risk nuclear war to stop them. We are damned if we do, and the Ukes are damned if we don't. Hell they may pop tac nukes just out of spite, and if it seems like they are losing you can be effin SURE they will crack open that canned sunshine. UKRAINE. CANNOT. WIN. THIS.  So. What then. World War 3? Sorry, but my answer is YES. Unless some kind of miracle happens and Putin is deposed, the options remain either Ukraine is subject to a crushing defeat or Poland/NATO intervenes and we are in WW3. OK, there is another possible scenario, we pour weapons into Ukraine and draw Russia into a terrible quagmire, and they somehow brainlessly spend the next 3 or 4 years wasting the entirety of their armed forces beating their heads against a javelin anvil, Ukraine is turned into a wasteland that would make wartorn Syria look inviting, and nearly every man, woman, and child still in the country dies in a twenty-first century reprise of the Holodomor. So WW3 it is. I'm predicting it. I give it two more months, and it will go nuclear within weeks of Nato stepping in. Maybe days. Prepare yourselves.  Go whine somewhere else. Yeah, he should have kept not posting. What a genius. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:57:39 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Also don't forget about the pipeline troops. Any established Russian position is likely supplied by pipelines at this point. I've read about this system several times but is there any evidence they've been able to get it up and running anywhere? I spent a lot of years working at chemical plants and refineries and while I'm not a pipefitter myself I spent a lot of time watching them do their thing. Going off what we've seen of Russian "competence" I have a hard time buying that a system like that manufactured in Russia and maintained by drunken conscripts is going to be in any way reliable if they can make it run at all. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:58:40 AM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GreenMushroom: I've read about this system several times but is there any evidence they've been able to get it up and running anywhere? I spent a lot of years working at chemical plants and refineries and while I'm not a pipefitter myself I spent a lot of time watching them do their thing. Going off what we've seen of Russian "competence" I have a hard time buying that a system like that manufactured in Russia and maintained by drunken conscripts is going to be in any way reliable if they can make it run at all. I've seen it in exactly 1 picture and ive read this entire thread. So take that for what it's worth 
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Posted: 4/19/2022 5:58:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: Finslayer83]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: We know Russia has 76 BTGs in Donbas. What is opposing them? ETA: 58 with the info |
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NZL
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:02:27 AM EST
[#23]
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:03:53 AM EST
[#24]
Russia launches 'Battle of Donbas' on eastern front, Ukraine says
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-says-russia-launches-new-eastern-offensive-with-blasts-all-along-front-2022-04-19/ LVIV/KYIV, April 19 (Reuters) - Russian forces tried to push through Ukrainian defences along almost the entire front line in eastern Ukraine on Tuesday, launching what President Volodymyr Zelenskiy called the "Battle of the Donbas" - the long-awaited second phase of the war. A "very large part of the entire Russian army is now focused on this offensive," Zelenskiy said in a video address overnight. "No matter how many Russian troops they send there, we will fight. We will defend ourselves." ... Meanwhile, in the besieged, ruined city of Mariupol, Russia gave the last Ukrainian defenders holed up in a giant steel works an ultimatum to surrender by noon (0900 GMT) or die. Russian-backed separatists said the pro-Moscow forces were preparing to storm the Azovstal factory, believed to be the last base of Ukrainian troops who have survived the longest and most brutal siege of the war. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:08:12 AM EST
[#25]
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:10:42 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sq40: Your take is well understood, and the majority of Arfcom shares it. My take was the same as yours initially as well. I heard nothing but comments from analysts and experts about how quickly Ukraine would fall, and how it was powerless to do so. Those same people also said that the Russian buildup was a bluff to keep Ukraine out of Nato. But then Ukraine stood up. I took the opportunity to learn more about the country and its people. I found out that Ukraine is kind of like the “Texas of Europe”. They were rapidly pushing back against corruption in recent years, pushing to westernize. Looking to be free. And here comes Russia, and the brutality and horror they imposed, unprovoked. They also showed how vulnerable they are. I grew up in the cold war too. And I had expected a conflict to come any time. I also remember how many hundreds of thousands of Americans have died at the hands of the Russians and their proxies and the cold war itself. It brought it all back. Russia is still Russia, out greatest foe. They could have changed and embraced a better way of life, but they really didn’t. And now we are facing them down again, where we are the strongest we have been militarily, after 20 years of war fighting, and they are the weakest they have ever been. As a cold war kid, I see we have unfinished business, and we should take them off the table while we can. And in the process, we should rid Ukraine of them as well. It’s well past time to put that Bear down. This is an excellent post. More folks should read it, and understand. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:15:06 AM EST
[Last Edit: GTLandser]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By elcope: Please escort Comrade NBCMarine to the local party headquarters. Thank you for your service in this thread, You're excused. https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/20/590x/secondary/what-happened-to-boris-from-chernobyl-1905587.jpg?r=1561585559098 💖 |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:16:00 AM EST
[#28]
US to train Ukrainians on howitzer artillery systems in next days
Artillery is part of $800m military aid package that US says will help Ukraine defend against Russian offensive in east. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/18/us-to-train-ukrainians-on-howitzer-artillery-systems-in-next-days The United States plans to begin training Ukrainians on how to operate howitzer artillery systems in the coming days, a senior US defence official has said, as the Biden administration seeks to bolster Ukraine’s defences against an expected Russian offensive in the east. The 155mm howitzer cannons are part of an additional $800m weapons package for Ukraine that US President Joe Biden announced last week. It also includes other artillery systems, artillery rounds, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:18:22 AM EST
[#29]
Updated maps and order of battle info. Read this thread!
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:22:20 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump sounds a lot like some of the Putinistas in this thread. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:23:30 AM EST
[Last Edit: ServusVeritatis]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Wow. He’s a dumb ass (voted for him twice) if he thinks Russia will “sit down and compromise”. ETA: it’s not going to help with all the Russel Bentley GDers. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:27:02 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: US to train Ukrainians on howitzer artillery systems in next days Artillery is part of $800m military aid package that US says will help Ukraine defend against Russian offensive in east. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/18/us-to-train-ukrainians-on-howitzer-artillery-systems-in-next-days The United States plans to begin training Ukrainians on how to operate howitzer artillery systems in the coming days, a senior US defence official has said, as the Biden administration seeks to bolster Ukraine’s defences against an expected Russian offensive in the east. The 155mm howitzer cannons are part of an additional $800m weapons package for Ukraine that US President Joe Biden announced last week. It also includes other artillery systems, artillery rounds, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters. But Moscow, which launched its invasion on February 24, recently warned the Biden administration in an official diplomatic note of “unpredictable consequences” should Washington provide further weapons to Kyiv. Lol |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:33:01 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArmoredDerp: There were some pictures posted of St. Genghis Khan/Russo-Christopher Columbus in a Russian Museum. I can't seem to find them by going back through scores of pages. Can someone post the link to them? Thanks! Nah, but I bet I can find some video of the protest in Chi-Raq when the cops got attacked by the Rustifa who were trying to destroy the Columbus statue. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:40:48 AM EST
[#34]
the Ukrainians will also presumably increase their commercial drone forces exponentially.
By now they appear to have really perfected the ones dropping grenades, which they should be able to order from the Chinese by the shipping container.... they appear to be an extraordinary force multiplier and can be operated I would assume by entirely non trained personnel.... |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:43:44 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cobradriver: ... A guy by the name of Chesty Puller, some Marines and even Army dudes stacked fuckin chinese like cordwood. They should have been obliterated. I'll take a cohesive, motivated fighting force any day of the week... A neighbor of mine (PFC) found himself sitting on a log on Guadalcanal beside Lt. Col. Puller and talked to him a few minutes about their sucky situation. Two years later Puller saw him on Peleliu and called him by name. Amazed my neighbor. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:44:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: Naporter]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Wow. He’s a dumb ass (voted for him twice) if he thinks Russia will “sit down and compromise”. ETA: it’s not going to help with all the Russel Bentley GDers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Wow. He’s a dumb ass (voted for him twice) if he thinks Russia will “sit down and compromise”. ETA: it’s not going to help with all the Russel Bentley GDers. Putin's simply too far in to this how to simply back out. It would show weakness and he won't allow that. I agree it's nonsense to expect honest peace negotiations while he is in power. Any olive branch he offers is a distraction from the knife he's about to stab you with. Trump is right about the end result though. While Ukraine is likely to prevail in the end, it will be at a tremendous cost in blood. Short of the Russian officers defying orders and retreating back to Russia, I don't see how this ends without rivers of blood flowing from Ukraine. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:44:22 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By _disconnector_: Yes. I was specifically thinking of Kursk and the battles for the Caucasus in 1945. Yes, that was the Sovs though. They were brilliantly planned battles of mass attrition - just huge WWI style meat grinders that wore the Germans down. This is the warfare that the Russians are best at. The Russians appear to be following the 1939 plan for offense though - just pour in metal and men at the point of contact until the enemy breaks and then rush for the rear areas. It's literally Barbarossa in reverse. And that's why they got their asses handed to them - blitzkreig style warfare only works if your enemy cannot see the point of concentration and act early. Drones, ISR, and SAR have completely changed that game for good. Here's the bottom line. If Ukraine directly slugs it out with Moscow they will lose. The Russkies have the material and mass advantage (for now!). Ukraine is smart enough not to do this though. They have to fight intelligently whereas all the orcs have is brute frontal attacks. Eventually I believe that Ukraine will have the manpower/mass advantage as well but it will take another 12 months to build it. The Ukes have been getting deep inside the Russian OODA loop and they hopefully aren't letting up the pressure. The Russians are fighting stupid and it shows. Heavy bombers would change that up in about a day. Carpet that whole area. Too bad they gave up their bombers for that now forgotten Budapest thing they agreed to. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:47:35 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BUCC_Guy: They have assloads of material. No matter what guesstimate we make about the failure rate or maintenance issues, their fieldable heavy equipment dwarfs Ukraine's. There's trainloads of heavy equipment on the way, and even if it's only a fraction of their reported amounts, it still outweigh's UA's trickle from the west. I want Russia to get its shit pushed in, but they don't care about personnel losses and they can swallow failure for months. The Ukrainians can't take the losses. There is no "good" outcome for them. They get bogged down in an insurgency if UA forces falter. Possible coup if they turn tail and run. The only face-saving move is to secure the east, double-down on Crimean border, and claim victory. UA says that aint an option. Historically, they've had no problem throwing bodies and shit equipment around until they get results. Yes, there's plenty of footage of shit equipment, from their boots to rotten food. But this is also an entity that would send conscripts in with knockoff Adidas and a Mosin if they had to... and they'd field more bodies than UA. There's no good outcome for any party here, because anything other than "my bad, I'll go home now" is a shit show. You need motivated people to operate equipment. Russia has few motivated people and it’s only getting worse. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:53:06 AM EST
[#39]
Ultimatum has come and gone.
Ukrainians post intercepted orders to level Azovstal |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:53:36 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALFOX: FINALLY someone who understands. All I can hope is that we have an ace in the hole in the form of advanced missile defense hidden from the public eye. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALFOX: Originally Posted By TTTSNB: if you also mean to say that we should shrink away from WW3, I would disagree with that. Russia hasn't changed from the evil bastards they were over the last 100 years and are proving themselves a blight on the face of the Earth. I think the position early in the war was that UKR wasn't our business too much and we could tolerate atrocities by secluding RUS from the West, but it is becoming apparent they are genocidal expansionists and further such incursions are inevitable. Let the natural conclusion come even if it is WW3, we can't be held hostage with a threat of nuclear war. if it comes it that, it comes to that. they won't win. is it worth it? that has been the question so far. the answer is increasingly tilting toward Yes. actually it would be better to get it over with now. they will have more and better nuclear armaments in a few years. It's not so simple. You're opinion seems based on trying to predict the future. Here is an option Russia secures the two separatist oblasts in the coming days. Russia finishes clearing the AZOV battalion. Russia and Ukraine then return to peace talks. Ukraine cedes control over the separatists oblasts and Crimea (which by the way were major hurdles to joining NATO) and Russia leaves the rest of Ukraine. -Russia "beat the Nazis" and obtained land -Ukraine continues to exist and solved its civil war and can join NATO and EU. While I'm certain this isn't the outcome Ukraine or Russia wanted, it's a possibility, no nukes were needed and Western support halted the creation of another Putin Puppet state. Am I right, who know. We might all die in nuclear fire next week, but your certainty is incorrect. There are plenty of possible outcomes. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:57:48 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: Updated maps and order of battle info. Read this thread!
And another thread w/ battle map w/ oob info.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:57:59 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Featureless: I'm not surprised there are morons in GD. What's perhaps a bit surprising is the Russians seem to have spent at least some effort to swim in our little pool here. Jade helm was one pretty specific to this site and groups/sites like it. I posted the FBI documents showing that the whole 'The government is going to use abandoned walmarts to jail conservatives' was a Russian deal, and was promptly called a democrat. People don't like being told they're wrong, they REALLY REALLY don't like it. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 6:58:46 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: all of my conservative friends/family are "fuck vlad" the few rinos and libs in my life are also "fuck vlad" I don't comprehend anyone taking a different position on this. did thy also back Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By racer765: Originally Posted By grambosc: It's bad, but my local real life acquaintances are even worse. I left a conservative gathering last month over the pro Russia parroting, convinced that at some future point we may come to violence over irreconcilable differences. They basically accused anyone not embracing Team Russia of being hostile, and brainwashed, and implied that during an emergency they'd just come help themselves to our preps. Maybe they were joking, but I now have to consider the possibility that I might have to use lethal force to defend myself and family from them at that point. I've cut off all communications cold, and hopefully they'll just move on now. However, I'm glad to have learned their true colors now instead of after a big SHTF event, when I may have hoped for their help. all of my conservative friends/family are "fuck vlad" the few rinos and libs in my life are also "fuck vlad" I don't comprehend anyone taking a different position on this. did thy also back Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait? It's weird. I haven't met or talked to anyone who supports russia on this. All of my friends are pro UKR and fuck russia. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:02:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: US to train Ukrainians on howitzer artillery systems in next days Artillery is part of $800m military aid package that US says will help Ukraine defend against Russian offensive in east. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/4/18/us-to-train-ukrainians-on-howitzer-artillery-systems-in-next-days The United States plans to begin training Ukrainians on how to operate howitzer artillery systems in the coming days, a senior US defence official has said, as the Biden administration seeks to bolster Ukraine’s defences against an expected Russian offensive in the east. The 155mm howitzer cannons are part of an additional $800m weapons package for Ukraine that US President Joe Biden announced last week. It also includes other artillery systems, artillery rounds, armoured personnel carriers and helicopters. Currently Ukrainian 152MM ML-20 has a maximum firing range of (10.7 miles) US 155mm can fire a 100lb HE projectile to a maximum range of (14.7 miles) *Excalibur rounds - Excalibur was developed as a longer-ranged alternative to conventional artillery shells, with GPS guidance for improved accuracy. Excalibur has a range of approximately (25 to 35 mi) depending on configuration, with a circular error probable (CEP) of 4 m. The extended range is achieved through the use of folding glide fins, which allow the projectile to glide from the top of a ballistic arc towards the target. The munition was co-developed by United States-based Raytheon Missile Systems (guidance system) and the Swedish BAE Systems Bofors (body, base, ballistics and payload). Excalibur is used to minimize collateral damage, for targets beyond the range of standard munitions, for precise firing within 150 meters (490 ft) of friendly troops, or when firing in a straight line from the launching cannon is limited by terrain. It has a multi-function fuze that can be programmed to explode in the air, once it hits a hard surface, or after it penetrates inside a target. One Excalibur projectile can accurately hit an intended target that would require the use of between 10 and 50 unguided artillery rounds.  
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:04:11 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Ultimatum has come and gone.
Ukrainians post intercepted orders to level Azovstal They know they are fighting to the death. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:04:59 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: I can't find the heart to forgive them for what they did to Hungary in 1956. My grandfather and great grandfather died together frozen and naked in a prison.. Beaten..starved..tortured and left naked . They died clinging to each other as a father and son...and the fucken Russians and commie Hungarians thought it was funny.... I hate communism with all my heart.. I hate russia with every fiber of my being. I want them to apologize and beg forgiveness to my dad for putting a bullet in his back and shrapnels also. I want them grounded to powder into a nothing burger. 3rd world shithole.. Of nothingness..I want them shitting in the ground and wiping their ass with their hands...that's how savage I want them return to. I agree with you. Both of my grandfathers spent a few years in Siberia. They had to eat grass to survive while walking home to Hungary (actually Romania by the time they arrived home). My Great Uncle and many other Hungarian soldiers were executed by them after surrendering in our home town. We only know about the incident because one of them managed to escape. I'm shocked that more Hungarians dont remember this. I wish Orban would distance himself (and Hungary) from Russia. I understand the game and I know Hungary is a tiny country between BIG hostile neighbors. It does seem that there is personal animosity between Orban and Zelensky for some reason. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:05:29 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By rca2222: Did this get posted yet? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/176088/FQqPzxWWUAYrGXc_jpg-2354354.JPG Trump needs to go away. Russia needs to be defeated and its people humiliated and ashamed for generations. |
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:06:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#48]
.....
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:06:33 AM EST
[Last Edit: realwar]
[#49]
.....double tap
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2022 7:06:49 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxtrot08: The older equipment is less reliable, harder to get running and harder to keep running. Less likely to have usable parts laying around. Less likely to have people who can work on it due to Russias turn over. Also, the Ukraine isn’t Russias only hotspot they’re dealing with. They still have to maintain a force across their country. If they commit everything they have to the Ukrainian battle field, they’ll be extremely weak elsewhere. Also, cost vs reward. If Russia blows 30+ years of ammo, vehicles and man power in this war. They’re going to be useless for 30-40 years. No longer a major threat. Just another bunch of idiots with nukes, essentially, a bigger Pakistani or North Korea. Isolate, alone, with a dying population. Russia can’t sustain this forever, neither can the Ukraine. But currently, the Ukrainian military is making the orcs bleed by a casual estimate of about 3.5 deaths to 1 death. The Ukraine doesn’t have 350,000 people to throw at this militarily. But Russia isn’t going to lose 1m men and equipment over it either. Russia has a bleed out point. We just don’t know where it’s at yet. 50k? 100k? 200k? Add in approximately 3x the wounded. 50k deaths would also mean 150k wounded / captured. As Russias more experienced forces get killed off, their casualties are going to climb faster and faster. Older equipment, supplies, etc just means they’re going to have more casualties faster. The more this war drags on. The more helicopters fall out of the sky from lack of maintenance. More planes crash from bad tires. Etc. Where is Russia’s bleed out point? As throwing all 1.2m men into this grinder isn’t going to happen. Which overall is a good observation, but to add : Ukraine has a substantial manpower pool as well. Right now the estimate i around 1m men/women willing to fight for the Ukraine, and that's without a threat of rape or jailtime. I think Russia's going to be hard pressed to find 1 million men for their army, let alone 1 million MOTIVATED men. On top of it, Ukraine is constantly sending soldiers for training westward to Poland/Slovakia/CZ Republic, to be trained by western groups, while Russia gets to rely on their own crappy system to train high quality soldiers. I just don't see how this ends in either bleeding Russia dry (And it's done a good job so far), or them claiming victory in a few months when a little more territory is claimed. If Ukraine starts getting even a little momentum, Russia is in big trouble. |
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