OSHA -- Fines 110K and Citation for gun Range - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - OSHA -- Fines 110K and Citation for gun Range (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 6/23/2012 1:04:13 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations ........

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific ........

People have been bathed in the plumbophobia for years now, mostly through the EPA and OSHA to where they think touching lead will cause lead poisoning.

The only hazard lead from a firing range poses is BREATHING.

You could lick the floor and get lead poisoning. The most likely method is lead contamination of the instructors clothing and then close contact with a child at home who ingests the lead over a period of time. This is the result of controls that were put into place last year and includes remodeling of any building built before 1978.

Posted: 6/23/2012 1:26:33 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Here's more info in the IL HTF. I've never shot at this place myself, but it sounds like the owner basically got down on his knees and begged for the citation.

Well damn...

Posted: 6/23/2012 7:24:17 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
osha hit a few ranges in the chicago burbs. while i admit illinois is a shit state... don't think this kinda crap can't or won't happen in your state.

all in the name of making money and paying the bills.

IIRC wasn't the lack of indoor ranges originally how Chicago was preventing people from owning guns?

Perhaps someone in the system is trying to get this back in effect by having the ranges cited

Posted: 6/23/2012 7:59:30 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The article is a little hazy on what all the violations were but if the range had Hoppes for personnel to use than they are required to have a MSDS sticker/label on it with the data sheet. As for suggestions they will make a million of them and if you were to follow even a portion of them you will price yourself out of business. Their suggestions you should note and file it away under "shit I don't fucking care about but have to remember for the next visit." But violations are violations. Many are technical but on a firing range how much do you want to risk?

Shit like this is what kills entrepreneurship and keeps people on unemployment and welfare instead of starting a business.

And it is also how people end up with lead contamination. The citation was very specific that it is not the instructor retrieving the round off of the ground but it is the fact that they did so without gloves with a copious amount of lead dust on the floor. The business did not have the controls in place to lower or mitigate lead contamination. This is their fuck up not the .gov.

The citation went on to talk about the hearing protection too. Simple fix is buy better ear muffs or hire more range masters.

Its bullshit. Inorganic lead compounds, like what comes from lead bullets is minimally absorbed.

People have been bathed in the plumbophobia for years now, mostly through the EPA and OSHA to where they think touching lead will cause lead poisoning.

The only hazard lead from a firing range poses is BREATHING.

Well, I can think of three ways.

Ingestion: Lead gets on the hands, the hands are not washed, the hands touch food, and lead transfers via contact to the food and is ingested. This is circumvented by washing your hands before eating, or better yet, when you're done shooting.

Breathing: Like you mentioned, could be a big problem...On a badly ventilated indoor range. If you shoot outside, I bet your exposure is greatly reduced. If you shoot f**ktons of ammo, buy ammo with enclosed bases on the bullets if this concerns you.

Absorption through skin: Wash your damn hands and this won't be a problem.

So basically it comes down to fresh air and washing your damn hands.

Posted: 6/23/2012 8:11:49 PM EDT

[#5]

the fuck is this bullshit....
employee was not told to reach across the line, employee could double up on muffs, but didnt.
FUCK OSHA

Posted: 6/23/2012 8:22:12 PM EDT

[#6]

of

Posted: 6/23/2012 8:44:20 PM EDT

[#7]

Land of the free indeed.

Posted: 6/23/2012 8:48:32 PM EDT

[#8]

Just make as many laws and regulations as you can and fine businesses you don't like and make activities you hate so cumbersome they'll no longer exist.

Yep. Land of the free.

Posted: 6/23/2012 8:57:16 PM EDT

[#9]

OSHA is an organization that is completely out of control. Their actions and mandates border on criminally insane.

OSHA interjects itself into industrial situations where the consequence of failure is already painfully well understood, and then imposes absolutely asinine regulations over the most meaningless minutia, ultimately distracting the operators from the original tasks at hand.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:13:00 PM EDT

[#10]

Illinois Gun Works has been advertising very heavily on conservative AM talk radio in Chicago, marketing their services to Chicagoans who want to get their Chicago handgun permit.

OTOH, some of the ranges around Chicagoland are real shitholes.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:26:21 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
OSHA is an organization that is completely out of control. Their actions and mandates border on criminally insane.

OSHA interjects itself into industrial situations where the consequence of failure is already painfully well understood, and then imposes absolutely asinine regulations over the most meaningless minutia, ultimately distracting the operators from the original tasks at hand.

OSHA is the metaphorical momma sea lion who is screaming "I'm trying to protect you!" as she crushes her pups to death under her massive bulk.

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:34:57 PM EDT

[#12]

they must have had a lot of violations, OSHA fines are small for the regulatory agency, i think the highest is 70,000$ for a willful violation leading to a death. EPA on the other hand will screw you so hard that your ancestors will cringe. From what i know about OSHA (including talking to the 3rd man in charge for a while and being a industrial hygienist) this article sounds a little fishy

Posted: 6/23/2012 9:42:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
they must have had a lot of violations, OSHA fines are small for the regulatory agency, i think the highest is 70,000$ for a willful violation leading to a death. EPA on the other hand will screw you so hard that your ancestors will cringe. From what i know about OSHA (including talking to the 3rd man in charge for a while and being a industrial hygienist) this article sounds a little fishy

They're only small until you realize that they quantify them by individual infractions. So if the fine for picking up a round of the floor, without gloves, was $7000, and the guy picked up 20 rounds, there's $140,000

Posted: 6/23/2012 10:45:07 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

..

Well, I can think of three ways.

Ingestion: Lead gets on the hands, the hands are not washed, the hands touch food, and lead transfers via contact to the food and is ingested. This is circumvented by washing your hands before eating, or better yet, when you're done shooting.

Breathing: Like you mentioned, could be a big problem...On a badly ventilated indoor range. If you shoot outside, I bet your exposure is greatly reduced. If you shoot f**ktons of ammo, buy ammo with enclosed bases on the bullets if this concerns you.

Absorption through skin: Wash your damn hands and this won't be a problem.

So basically it comes down to fresh air and washing your damn hands.

Lead is from PRIMING, not bullet bases or even cast/swaged bullets.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:13:27 PM EDT

[#15]

OSHA game by my place of employment 2 weeks ago, we got 28 citations. Mostly minor, but one was that no one was wearing latex or nitrile gloves. I'm a tech at a dealership and we got blasted for bunch of stupid shit.

Posted: 6/23/2012 11:15:26 PM EDT

[#16]

OSHA is a motherfucker. They come into the shop writing tickets for crazy ass shit every now and then. Just another part of overhead imposed by government helping keep my wage down and your prices up.

Posted: 6/24/2012 12:09:38 AM EDT

[#17]

Illinois runs it's own OSHA program. So, even though the press release says "fed osha" because it's a state plan location for the public sector, the decisions about where to conduct OSHA inspections, and how much to fine locations is initially determined by the state OSHA organization. So, one can safely assume that the inspection could have been motivated by the gun ranges political views.
Having said that, a lot of OSHA regulations significantly impact shooting ranges. The Lead standard being one, Hearing Conservation another, and god knows how many more. Complying with regulations could close a lot of marginal indoor ranges, and increase operating expenses of remaining ranges.

Posted: 6/24/2012 3:45:37 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
OSHA is a motherfucker. They come into the shop writing tickets for crazy ass shit every now and then. Just another part of overhead imposed by government helping keep my wage down and your prices up.

But you are so safe right now and the murderous intentions of your greedy boss have been restrained by our wise and benevolent government. You should be grateful your pay is lower, because your life is longer and safer from unrestrained capitalist greed.

Posted: 6/24/2012 3:47:50 AM EDT

[#19]

Just another liberal tool against gun enthusiasts.

Posted: 6/24/2012 4:05:13 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Article
http://www.volokh.com/2012/06/23/osha-targets-shooting-range/

The federal Occupational Safety and Health Administration has issued a citation, along with a proposed fine of $111,000 fine (OSHA press release here), against Illinois Gun Works–a gun store and gunsmith business which has a shooting range and teaches safety classes.

Many of alleged OSHA violations at the safety training range involved noise exposure for the instructors. Among OSHA’s suggestions were to eliminate training in “larger caliber” handguns such as “9 mm Luger and/or .45 Colt” and substitute “handguns of smaller caliber,” such as .22LR. And “Prohibition of any shotguns and/or rifles firing in the firing range."

“A gun range instructor conducting shooter instruction was observed reaching down on the range floor to collect a loaded handgun cartridge. The employee was not wearing any hand protection such as gloves. The gun range floor was contaminated with lead. The gun had misfired and it required manual cycling of the barrel slide to remove the defective round which then fell on the gun range floor.”

And the press release
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=NEWS_RELEASES&p_id=22524

Large caliber handguns? Gloves?

You can't make this up...
Or are these really regs for Illinois?

If it's OSHA it's federal. Coming soon to a range near you.

So is osha, a federal agency, telling us that the use of supressor is required to meet acceptable noise levels?... After all its for the children...

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