Posted: 2/21/2003 3:12:29 PM EDT
|
The scene: An airplane about to take off The Players: An airline attendant and 2 black women The script: >The plane is about to take off and the attendant is trying to get the passenegrs seated. She comes up with a little rhyme to be funny and hurry the passengers along< Attendant: "Eeny meenie miney mo, pick a seat its time to go." 2 Black Women: "That rhyme is offensive, it used to have the word "nigger" in it, were suing." Well they did and unbelieveably a judge let the case go to trial. The women say the rhyme is historically racist because the original was "Eeny meenie miney mo, catch a nigger by the toe..." This coupled with that story about the illegal immigrants getting in state tax breaks on college tuition really makes me think twice about bringing children into this world... |
|
[url]http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascitystar/5144735.htm[/url] Rhyme at center of lawsuit against Southwest Airlines By ROBERT A. CRONKLETON The Kansas City Star A widely recognized rhyme -- and how it was used on a flight -- are the focus of a case headed for trial in federal court in Kansas City, Kan. Louise Sawyer, 46, of Merriam, and Grace Fuller, 48, of Lenexa, have sued Southwest Airlines alleging that they were discriminated against and suffered physical and emotional distress on a crowded February 2001 flight after an attendant uttered the rhyme. Trying to get passengers to take their seats, Southwest Airlines flight attendant Jennifer Cundiff said over the intercom, "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; pick a seat, we gotta go." The two African-American women, who are siblings, contend they were the only passengers standing in the aisle at the time. Cundiff has contended that several others were in the aisle. Sawyer and Fuller said the rhyme immediately struck them as a reference to the original, racist version, which begins with the words: "Eenie, meenie, minie, moe; catch a n----- by his toe...." Cundiff, who is white and was 22 at the time, said in court papers that she had never heard the offensive version of the rhyme and that she had used the phrase on several flights as a humorous way of getting passengers to sit down. The second line of a modern version usually goes, "Catch a tiger by the toe." The rhyme is part of a counting-out expression used in children's games to determine who will be "it" among a group of players. On Wednesday, U.S. District Judge Kathryn H. Vratil ruled in Kansas City, Kan., that the case could proceed on the plaintiffs' claim that Southwest discriminated against them. Vratil ruled in favor of Southwest on another point, however, by dismissing the plaintiffs' claims for intentional and emotional distress. "The court agrees with plaintiffs that because of its history, the phrase `eenie, meenie, minie, moe' could reasonably be viewed as objectively racist and offensive," Vratil wrote in her ruling. "The jury, however, must decide whether Cundiff's remark was racist, or simply a benign and innocent attempt at humor." Also, the jury will have to decide whether Southwest denied Sawyer and Fuller the same enjoyment that others experienced on that flight. The trial is scheduled for March 4. John W. Cowden, a lawyer with the Kansas City law firm of Baker Sterchi Cowden & Rice, which represents Southwest, said the flight attendant was not discriminating against Sawyer and Fuller. "Southwest denies anyone intended to discriminate against any passengers, let alone these two ladies," Cowden said Friday. This is not the only time a variation of the rhyme has raised complaints. Last November, University City, Mo., reprinted 18,000 copies of a city calendar for residents after a city employee found it racially offensive. The complaint centered on the calendar's cover photo of five children's feet -- one bare, the others with shoes. A finger is touching one of the shoes. A majority of the children taking part were black. A statement under the picture read, "Eeny...meeny...miny...moe." The woman who took the picture, Tamara S. Walker of St. Louis, said at the time that she was surprised by the controversy. Walker, who is black, said that while growing up, she used the word "tiger" in the rhyme. It was not until she was an adult that she heard the racist version. A city official for University City, a suburb of St. Louis, apologized and ordered the calendar reprinted. The new version had no photo on its cover and did not include Walker's photo inside. Although many books that trace the history of words and phrases do not contain an entry for "eenie, meenie, minie, mo," at least one does. The Facts on File Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins by Robert Hendrickson dates the rhyme to the mid-19th century and says that the original version was "insensitive at best." Hendrickson adds that "happily, the second line is much more frequently today `Catch a tiger by the toe.' " Sawyer and Fuller said Friday that their case against Southwest evolved from a vacation to Las Vegas. On the return trip, they failed to arrive at the gate at least 10 minutes before departure and were not allowed to board. They were placed on "priority standby" for the next flight. After boarding, they had trouble finding seats. As they stood in the aisle, Cundiff said the rhyme over the intercom. "I was infuriated by the comment," Sawyer said Friday. She said fellow passengers snickered at the rhyme, which further made her feel alienated. Fuller said that she, too, felt that the rhyme was directed at her. "It was like I was too dumb to find a seat," she said. Fuller, who has epilepsy, said the comment upset her so much that her hands shook during the flight and that she has "unexplained memory gaps" about the flight. Later that night, she said, she had a "grand mal seizure" and was bedridden for three days. Because she did not have health insurance, she did not seek medical attention, she said. After Sawyer and Fuller complained to Southwest, the airline investigated the incident and asked Cundiff to write a report. In her report, Cundiff wrote, "The statement I made on Flight 524 was not racist or discriminating, and I am offended that because I have white skin suddenly I am a racist. Maybe those that run around pointing fingers yelling racist should stop and turn that finger around." Cundiff, according to court documents, had used the rhyme on other flights after learning it from co-workers who, like other Southwest attendants, frequently employ humor on flights. Cundiff, who grew up in Texas, said she only used the rhyme when flights were full and passengers were in the aisle. According to court documents, Southwest did not believe the phrase was racist and did not reprimand Cundiff or ask her to stop using it. However, Cundiff no longer uses it because of the incident. Sawyer and Fuller filed the lawsuit, without an attorney, in August 2001 after they didn't get a satisfactory response from Southwest. Scott A. Wissel, a lawyer with the Kansas City law firm of Lewis, Rice & Fingersh, which is representing Sawyer and Fuller at no charge to them, said they are seeking injunctive relief to have Southwest stop using the rhyme and to provide employee training to prevent such things from happening again. They are also seeking an unspecified amount in compensatory and punitive damages. |
|
I don't get it . . . how can this lady be sued? Doesn't the constitution gaurentee us the right to free speech? Oh yeah, I forgot, that part of the constitution continues, ". . .unless said speech can be construed as racially insensitive". EDITED TO ADD: This is such a great quote! "The statement I made on Flight 524 was not racist or discriminating, and I am offended that because I have white skin suddenly I am a racist. Maybe those that run around pointing fingers yelling racist should stop and turn that finger around." |
|
The politically correct culture of victimhood, grievance, and complaint has led to this. It's like walking in a minefield, isn't it? Since all overt offensive or insensitive comment have been edited out, the victims have to invent new ways to get offended and victimized, even if it's by stuff you didn't even say. I wish there was a way off this planet sometimes. |
|
Quoted: We live in the age of entitlement. I see this over and over... You get a new toy or tool, because you have worked and saved to make the money to purchase said tool or toy. "Where is mine?" is the response from some "downtrodden, discriminated against" life form when they overhear you talking to a friend about your goodies. Sorry to sound sour, but I got out of bed at 2200 Thursday night after a 14 hour work day, washed my goat smelling ass, worked my regular job from midnight till 0800, got away from there, worked 6 hours for a loyal client of 5 years (at a very nice rate of pay, I might add), came home, showered, missed the UPS man who was delivering a toy or 3 from an advertiser here, went to my fun store to pick up a toy I ordered 2 weeks ago that has been sitting there for 10 days because I have not had time to pick it up on account of working 10 to 14 hours a day and living almost an hour from my "real job", went back home to meet the wife coming home from her day shiftie job, sat around and shot the shit with her about how her week has been (since my communication with her is limited to a 2 or 3 minute phone call once a day during the week.. we leave weekends open for "our time"), went out to eat, went to the bowling lanes and kicked the everlovingshit out of 4 people who we really like, came home, put some pRon on CD, had a drink or 3, and saw this post. Damn, that was a long sentence. Every day of my life seems like a long sentence. As of now, it is 0244 EST. Saturday. I have worked nearly 100 hours this week, between my "real" job, and making cash on the side. I have not slept in 29 hours. I only sleep 6 [b]days[/b] a week. I make good money, for a scumbag electrician. Damn good money. This is what "entitlement" is all about. I am titled as an electrician. I rely on my title to the fullest. I have a valid NC Contractor's License, and use it to [i]entitle myself to make a better life for my wife and I[/i]. Rant off... If you have a problem with my views, go talk to a fucking brick wall. But be sure to get permission from the Mason who laid it...... NOTHING IS FREE!!!! ok... now the rant is off.. |
|
Quoted: "The court agrees with plaintiffs that because of its history, the phrase `eenie, meenie, minie, moe' [red]could reasonably be viewed as objectively racist and offensive[/red]," Vratil wrote in her ruling. "[red]The jury, however, must decide whether Cundiff's remark was racist,[/red] or simply a benign and innocent attempt at humor." "Objectively"... as in meaning it stands alone as being racist with no subjective connotations needed??? So why does the judge THEN say that the "jury must decide" whether the remark was racist? If it's "objectively racist" then no jury is needed - it must be OBVIOUSLY racist. What a load of hogshit!! We we got here is a bunch of hypersensitive money-grubbing bitches who SEVERELY need a LOT of psychological counseling because they just can't live in a NORMAL American society without being horribly offended because of their OWN excessive racial obsessions. Get a fucking life you bitches... ...and get out of the fucking aisle already!!! [;D] Yeah-yeah... I edited out the "offensive" fucking words so just unwad yer panties! |
|
We used to say it in elementary school, back in the 60': "Eeny meenie miney mo, catch a tiger by its toe." I never heard of the 'N' version. If they ever used the 'N' word, it was a long time ago. In fact, odds are the flight attendant never heard the derogatory version in her lifetime. |
|
Quoted: In fact, odds are the flight attendant never heard the derogatory version in her lifetime. Racism is in the eye of the beholder. If some ignorant bitch [b]thinks[/b] you said something racist... well then dammit, [b][red]YOU SAID SOMETHING RACIST[/red][/b]. Case closed, end of story, sayonara Charlie! Remember that Washington D.C. staff worker who was fired because he PROPERLY used the word "niggardly" in a private meeting. The dumbfuck black guy who heard it was too ignorant and racist to understand it's actual meaning - and it didn't even matter after it was explained to him. [b]He heard a racist-sounding word![/b] So the dumbfuck racist black mayor fired the white guy because some other dumbfuck racist black guy was too ignorant to understand plain English. Calling something "racist" needs no explanation - therefore there's no defense that can be put up against it. |
|
My GOD! That person (Prince Charles, Queen Elizabeth II) is BRITISH!! I am offended, since the British persecuted the Scots, took our land, and sent us over to Canada, Ulster, and the Colonies as indentured servants!!! HOW DARE THEY EXIST?!?! What a bunch of horse crap. |
|
Ok, here I go.... 1) Some have said they thought of money first. The news story says, "Sawyer and Fuller filed the lawsuit, without an attorney, in August 2001 after they didn't get a satisfactory response from Southwest. How many times do I see shitty customer service threads here? Hell, we have gunstuff dealers who have shitty service. 2)unlike mattja, I have NEVER heard tiger, and from childhood it has always been nigger. I can still see the face of the little white girl who said it the first time I heard it. 3) I am glad you guys only have the luxury of bitchin about this issue. Its a fucked up thing to be on the receiving end of the whole nigger deal. Period. And thank goodness, its some shit none of you will ever have to deal with. To Wit; I have a group that I shot with. I have been around or with this group for some time. It is a small group with most knowing each other very well. We have camped, shot and broke bread frequently. In the last week, someone posted a reply on the board "shutup nigger". It was not directed to me, but it was posted nonetheless. I was actually told that "If I knew him, I'd know he meant nothing by his little "n" word usage". Damn, he meant nothing, little n word. I guess I am amazed at how those around me act as much as I am the initial action. They tolerated it, which to me tolerance is acceptance, even approval by proxy. I know its something that none of you can understand. Thats life. Trust me when I tell you, there is SO much attached to that word, every time I go through this shit, it freezes me in my tracks. I constantly hear how Black people are fucked up like this, and fucked up like that. Does the Black race have issues? Damn skippy. One less Jesse and one less Al and we would have a lot less issues, but I am in the personal responsibility camp. I do what the fuck I am supposed to do, and no matter what I do, it always comes back to the nigger shit. Fuck that. Wonder why some Blacks act the way they do towards Whites? I often wonder that myself. Why should I continue to be civil, accepting and courteous to a group that [b]always[/b] ends up coming back with the nigger shit. Time in and time out. |
|
I try to treat people the way I would like to be treated in the same situation. That being said, these folks sound like they are professional victims. I've been beaten, abused, spat upon, and generally mistreated all of my life. Now, where do -I- go to pick up my effing check? I don't. I just try to treat people the way -I- would like to be treated. This crap of having to consider what someone's grandfather may have heard is a bunch of crap. The reference was to their hesitancy to pick a seat, not to their FU*(ING skin color! They were holding up a plane, for Pete's sake! Damn! Where does personal responsibility end and the nanny state begin? CavVet: You are a good man, and deserve to be treated as such. If someone treats you differently, they'll have to face ALL of us. You may notice that skin tone doesn't have a whole lot to do with how it comes out in the pixels on the screen. Semper Fi. |
|
Quoted: CavVet: You are a good man, and deserve to be treated as such. If someone treats you differently, they'll have to face ALL of us. You may notice that skin tone doesn't have a whole lot to do with how it comes out in the pixels on the screen. Semper Fi. [b]Wonderfully said![/b] |
|
Here I go again! (BTW, I have nothing against you, CavVet) I was just discussing this with a friend of mine earlier tonight. He told me that he was rejected by other black people in America because he has a Nigerian accent. He only has white friends, because the whites don't care about his skin color or his accent. Strange where the rejection of differences is occuring, isn't it? Racism is alive and well, on both sides. Pretty much all of it is reactionary racism - adopting an opinion against another race because of a perceived act of racism against the adopter of the opinion. Maybe I have the "luxury" of not being around racism, and having intelligent, well mannered friends of all skin colors (if they aren't, they aren't friends for long). Or maybe this is the IDEAL situation, that those who have been wounded by racism desire? The friend I was talking to says he has been subjected to racism, and his reaction has been to immediately find an alternative. By that I mean that if he was called a name by a white store clerk, he would go across the street to the other white store clerk who [i]wanted his money[/i]. On dealing with racism from individuals, he would say "There is nobody here by that name. That's not my name! My name is --------." |
|
Quoted: Wonder why some Blacks act the way they do towards Whites? I often wonder that myself. Why should I continue to be civil, accepting and courteous to a group that [b]always[/b] ends up coming back with the nigger shit. Time in and time out. You said a lot that basically all comes down to perspective. You've been on the receiving end of a lot of bullshit racist harrassment and that's not right no matter what. But no one called anyone nigger on that plane - not even close. It was all in the head of those who heard it. Is Southwest Airlines responsible for what they PERCEIVED it to mean? No. And customer service has nothing to do with it. But what I really find interesting is what you said above. You seem to imply there may be a reason why some blacks act the way they do towards whites. Like whites "got it coming" to them or something. Well that's the same BS thinking that KKK and AN dickheads say about blacks - that "there's a reason" why they don't like blacks. Seems nowadays instead of trying to raise society OUT of race-centered interactions, especially regarding the Gov't, we have now put EVERYTHING in terms of race. Divide and conquer. America can't survive that. And I guess that's the whole idea. |
|
Quoted: If someone treats you differently, they'll have to face ALL of us. Using the shooting 'club' I mentioned above as an example, I think, from the face value of the actions of those in the group, I kinda expected that attitude. It wasnt there. As I said, that was as troubling as the initial incident. It was tolerated with silence, it was condoned. Quoted: You seem to imply there may be a reason why some blacks act the way they do towards whites. Like whites "got it coming" to them or something. Well that's the same BS thinking that KKK and AN dickheads say about blacks - that "there's a reason" why they don't like blacks. First I gotta say I sure had you pegged wrong. My assessment of your posts for a long time, here & FA (long ass list with you near the top), I had you down as klansmen with 3 stars. I think maybe I gotta do a better job reading what you say, or you gotta watch how you say the things you say, or both.Back to the topic. I wasnt meaning to infer some Blacks act like they do because... 'They' act like they do from free will. I do as I do for the same reasons. What I question is why I respond like I do, when I know, no matter how hard I work, no matter what I do, it will [b]ALWAYS[/b] comes back to the nigger shit. [b]THEN[/b] when it does go there, I will [b]ALWAYS[/b] be told; They meant nothing by it, its nothing, [b]I caused it to happen[/b]. The last one cracks me up the most. I cause people to act in a blatant racist manner towards me. Seems nowadays instead of trying to raise society OUT of race-centered interactions, especially regarding the Gov't, we have now put EVERYTHING in terms of race. I live daily trying to not be race conscious, but again, it always comes back to that. [b]I never in a million years[/b] expected this behavior in the shooting group I referred to earlier. But then again, I should have seen it coming. It always comes. It is so repetitive, that a few shooting groups ago (I'm a Haile Berry/Sinbad color) I made sure there was no mistake what I was, as I didnt want any accidents or mistakes. (BTW, it never came from that group either). You think we (Americans) put everything in terms of race? Arfkom is a reflection of society. Everyday, day in and day out there are race threads here. Is discussion needed? Sure it is. But in your words, we need to move on. But we dont. |
|
Hey, CavVet: Just be yourself, stand up, and don't put up with stupid shit. That's what we're trying to do. You have to admit that the woman at SWA was referring to them picking a seat, not picking cotton. Some people just go out of their way to be offended, and there isn't a damned thing you can do about it. Especially if you're a white male. |
|
So, it would have been better to have the Stew say "Sit the F*ck down, Shut the F*ck up, We need to take off" rather than use a rhyme? I had never heard it as nigger in the rhyme until fairly recently, and I'm in my 4th decade of life and lived in the south for a number of years. Far as I'm concerned, what would be right in this case is for the two ladies to bring the lawsuit, and if they CANNOT PROVE that it was known by the Stew that the origin of the rhyme was racial, they should have to pay SW's legal fees. I would be willing to bet that the "Lack of Satisfaction" they got from SW was trying to force a free ticket or two out of SW for the "insult" they suffered, and when they didn't get it, they got even more insulted. AFARR |
| This reminds me of the new type of racism I have been told about recently...It is apparently now racist to be sensitive to a minority, or even try to be friends with one, simply because the goodness actually comes out of a supposed well of evil and racist feeling whites feel deep down inside, and try to cover up by being nice. Hmmm, when will this country stop pandering to the weakest link? I am so sick of this! Grrrr....... |
|
Quoted: Ok, here I go.... 1) Some have said they thought of money first. The news story says, "Sawyer and Fuller filed the lawsuit, without an attorney, in August 2001 after they didn't get a satisfactory response from Southwest. How many times do I see shitty customer service threads here? Hell, we have gunstuff dealers who have shitty service. 2)unlike mattja, I have NEVER heard tiger, and from childhood it has always been nigger. I can still see the face of the little white girl who said it the first time I heard it. 3) I am glad you guys only have the luxury of bitchin about this issue. Its a fucked up thing to be on the receiving end of the whole nigger deal. Period. And thank goodness, its some shit none of you will ever have to deal with. To Wit; I have a group that I shot with. I have been around or with this group for some time. It is a small group with most knowing each other very well. We have camped, shot and broke bread frequently. In the last week, someone posted a reply on the board "shutup nigger". It was not directed to me, but it was posted nonetheless. I was actually told that "If I knew him, I'd know he meant nothing by his little "n" word usage". Damn, he meant nothing, little n word. I guess I am amazed at how those around me act as much as I am the initial action. They tolerated it, which to me tolerance is acceptance, even approval by proxy. I know its something that none of you can understand. Thats life. Trust me when I tell you, there is SO much attached to that word, every time I go through this shit, it freezes me in my tracks. I constantly hear how Black people are fucked up like this, and fucked up like that. Does the Black race have issues? Damn skippy. One less Jesse and one less Al and we would have a lot less issues, but I am in the personal responsibility camp. I do what the fuck I am supposed to do, and no matter what I do, it always comes back to the nigger shit. Fuck that. Wonder why some Blacks act the way they do towards Whites? I often wonder that myself. [red]Why should I continue to be civil, accepting and courteous to a group that [b]always[/b] ends up coming back with the nigger shit. Time in and time out.[/red] What horseshit!! Perhaps you should become a "separatist", like Randy Weaver..... You sound just like Al Sharpton, and we all know what HE is. Is THAT name calling?? |
|
Okay CavVet, explain something to me. Why is it okay for a gangster wannabe to call his "friend" nigger? I hear the word nigger come out of a lot more black people than white. i hear the black and hispanic kids use it as , when they arn't saying bitch of mf'er. And these kids arn't even 10 yet. You really think that they heard their cracker neighbor say it? Nope. Does the saying "calling a spade a spade" bother you? Or how about niggardly? Do you even know what the original meaning of the word nigger is? It seems to me that these "ladies" of African decent are looking for a score, just like all the rest of the "gimme, gimme" people out there. I'm 32, lived MOST of my life in the south (mostly Mississippi, Flordia, NC), and never heard the racist version of "Eni, Meni, Miny, Mo" until I saw Pulp Fiction. But I hear blacks using it all the time. And don't give me that crap about blacks using it as an empowerment word. It is either a racist wor or it isn't. Can't have it both ways. |
|
I have never heard the word "nigger" being used in that rhyme, ever. I never knew "nigger" was the word for "tiger." Edited rest of text out of respect for Cav-vet. Maybe there is a way to say what's on my mind that won't get me called a racist. Then again, maybe not, given the way this country is. |
|
BTW, I think I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that [b]NO ONE[/b] on this board has experienced racism point-blank and in-your-face like I have. I don't hold any grudges against black people in general because of what happened. Not at all. That would be stupid. However, I think I've earned the ability to say what those black women did is insulting to the human race. Oh, and it's also racist too. |
| As my second post here, this may not be the best place for me to start but heres my 2 cents. This whole event like many others is just about people wanting something for nothing. It is sad to see that the majority of the population today is unwilling to work for anything. It seems they just want everybody to give them everything and this event just proves my point even more. Why does everything said today have to be a racist comment? I'm a young white male and if I say something that even remotely offends somebody I'm labeled a racist. Why? It's perfectly alright for the rappers to call each other niggers and talk shit about themselves. More and more I see people of other races bitch about the "white man" and how we discriminate against them. Granted there are some sick and stupid white people but the same can be said about every race. I've grown up all my life being taught respect and everyday I try my best to respect other people, regardless of race. One thing I will not do is respect or be nice to assholes that hurt other people. Above all other things I am tired of people trying to weasel their way into some money, regardless of skin color. If the people of today had any respect stupid shit like this wouldn't happen. End of my rant guys. Sorry if this post seems like a jumbled mess, I'm not to good at conveying my thoughts onto the computer. I'm more of a speaking kinda guy. Peace guys. |
|
I think these two women are looking for a free ride PERIOD. The stewardess never heard the racist version(nor have I and I am 41 and have traveled the globe extensively)and she meant nothing racial in her rhyme. As for the race/ethnic thing: people are people and good or bad knows no boundries. If someone's feeble mind does not realize good people and bad people come in all colors, then they really should get out more. |