Posted: 3/9/2003 9:27:30 AM EDT
|
I've been seeing a few posts lately that include quotes from Ayn Rand or mentions of her writings. How many Objectivists do we have here? 1. Me |
|
Objectivism as I understand it is the belief that everyone does what feels best for them. If it makes you feel great to feed the homeless, ladling out soup is as selfish an action as a miser who collects gold. It really makes sense to me. I have only read "We The Living" and the John Galt book. There is also an Ayn Rand website you may want to check out. |
|
From aynrand.org Ayn Rand named her philosophy “Objectivism” and described it as a philosophy for living on earth. Objectivism is an integrated system of thought that defines the abstract principles by which a man must think and act if he is to live the life proper to man. Ayn Rand first portrayed her philosophy in the form of the heroes of her best-selling novels, The Fountainhead (1943) and Atlas Shrugged (1957). She later expressed her philosophy in nonfiction form. Ayn Rand was once asked if she could present the essence of Objectivism while standing on one foot. Her answer was: Metaphysics: Objective Reality Epistemology: Reason Ethics: Self-interest Politics: Capitalism She then translated those terms into familiar language: “Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed.” “You can’t eat your cake and have it, too.” “Man is an end in himself.” “Give me liberty or give me death.” The basic principles of Objectivism can be summarized as follows: Metaphysics “Reality, the external world, exists independent of man’s consciousness, independent of any observer’s knowledge, beliefs, feelings, desires or fears. This means that A is A, that facts are facts, that things are what they are — and that the task of man’s consciousness is to perceive reality, not to create or invent it.” Thus Objectivism rejects any belief in the supernatural — and any claim that individuals or groups create their own reality. Epistemology “Man’s reason is fully competent to know the facts of reality. Reason, the conceptual faculty, is the faculty that identifies and integrates the material provided by man’s senses. Reason is man’s only means of acquiring knowledge.” Thus Objectivism rejects mysticism (any acceptance of faith or feeling as a means of knowledge), and it rejects skepticism (the claim that certainty or knowledge is impossible). Human Nature Man is a rational being. Reason, as man’s only means of knowledge, is his basic means of survival. But the exercise of reason depends on each individual’s choice. “Man is a being of volitional consciousness.” “That which you call your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and that which you call ‘free will’ is your mind’s freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom. This is the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and character.”Thus Objectivism rejects any form of determinism, the belief that man is a victim of forces beyond his control (such as God, fate, upbringing, genes, or economic conditions). Ethics “Reason is man’s only proper judge of values and his only proper guide to action. The proper standard of ethics is: man’s survival qua man — i.e., that which is required by man’s nature for his survival as a rational being (not his momentary physical survival as a mindless brute). Rationality is man’s basic virtue, and his three fundamental values are: reason, purpose, self-esteem. Man — every man — is an end in himself, not a means to the ends of others; he must live for his own sake, neither sacrificing himself to others nor sacrificing others to himself; he must work for his rational self-interest, with the achievement of his own happiness as the highest moral purpose of his life.” Thus Objectivism rejects any form of altruism — the claim that morality consists in living for others or for society. Politics “The basic social principle of the Objectivist ethics is that no man has the right to seek values from others by means of physical force — i.e., no man or group has the right to initiate the use of physical force against others. Men have the right to use force only in self-defense and only against those who initiate its use. Men must deal with one another as traders, giving value for value, by free, mutual consent to mutual benefit. The only social system that bars physical force from human relationships is laissez-faire capitalism. Capitalism is a system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which the only function of the government is to protect individual rights, i.e., to protect men from those who initiate the use of physical force.” Thus Objectivism rejects any form of collectivism, such as fascism or socialism. It also rejects the current “mixed economy” notion that the government should regulate the economy and redistribute wealth. Esthetics “Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist’s metaphysical value-judgments.” The purpose of art is to concretize the artist’s fundamental view of existence. Ayn Rand described her own approach to art as “Romantic Realism”: “I am a Romantic in the sense that I present men as they ought to be. I am Realistic in the sense that I place them here and now and on this earth.” The goal of Ayn Rand’s novels is not didactic but artistic: the projection of an ideal man: “My purpose, first cause and prime mover is the portrayal of Howard Roark or John Galt or Hank Rearden or Francisco d’Anconia as an end in himself — not as a means to any further end.” |
|
objectivism is a sort of 'things are as they seem' type of thing. see post above. objectivism is also a prime example of what a colleague of mine referred to as "naive pragmatism." continental philosophers had a good laugh at ayn rand. they looked on her as a simpleton. a good contrast to ayn rand would be marx. he held, which was revolutionary at the time, that yeah, we could describe things that happened in the real world. imagine that. but, at the same time, he held that the superficially obvious was not the root cause of whatever. ayn tends toward the immediately present as explanation for all manner of phenomena, where karl would say there is something behind it. e.g. ayn would say "trade" and karl would say trade and then go on about the relatiohsip between the buyer and seller, the translation of productive relations to a number (money) and so on. skipping stones v. deep dive type of thing. i find marx vastly superior in this respect, that is, describing stuff. too bad i disagree entirely with his political trajectory and moralizing. but one need not be naive like ayn to agree with some of here views e.g. being procapitalist. |
|
I went thru a little Ayn Rand phase during my Atheist teen years (17-18). I respect her work, and agree w/ much of it. I't's been a long time since I considered myself in a pure sense, an Objectovist (or an Atheist for that matter. Her writings did help pull me out of the Communist sink hole I was in. "Religion is the opium of the people." -Marx "Vodka is the religion of the communist." -HS |
|
Quoted: Quoted: I'm too much of a individual to join a collective "ism." [:D] Aren't you a member of Mensa?[:D] You are thinking of McUZI. Mensa is a fine organization for people who are intelligent but still feel the need to band together as a support group of intellectual cheerleaders. |
|
based on deliverator's excellent post, i would have to say that i am certainly not an objectivist, as i do not adhere to what is commonly accepted as objective reality, and though i reject the concept of a 'supernatural' plane, my ideas regarding the metaphysical are somewhat...esoteric. evidently, i do not believe in concise sentences, either. |
| I just recently discovered Ayn Rand's stuff, thanks to SteyerAUG. I agree w/ a lot of Objectivism and think it can serve as a sound baseline for many conservative views. I like the view that "A is A", and just because you feel a certain way about something doesn't mean you can alter reality b/c of your feelings. It really puts the liberal movement in perspective, and shoots holes in the postmodern movement. |
|
My major issue with objectivism is that the application - as in laissez fair capitalism - assumes man will act in his own rational self-interest. If life has taught me anything, it is that most people are anything BUT rational. People will all too often act for short-term gain even at their own long-term expense. I am much more a fan of the Margaret Thatcher school of capitalist thought. |
|
About 2 years ago I considered myself an "objectivist." I've been a libertarian for quite a long time, but objectivism seemed to tie it all together. However, reading other authors and just more in general showed me quite a few flaws in objectivism. Objectivism and the Corruption of Rationality: A Critique of Ayn Rand's Epistemology http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595267335/lewrockwell/002-9335601-0704041 Here's a good one too: [URL=http://www.free-market.net/forums/main0211/messages/794318371.html]On the sociology of the ayn rand cult[/URL] Mind you, I'll still get along w/ an objectivist more than most other 'ist's' out there. But I happen to like the TOC(the objectivist center) guys more than the ARI(ayn rand institute) guys, as they are MUCH less dogmatic. My main issues with modern objectivism are, their irrational support of israel and taxation to fund it and their complete DENIAL of MODERN PHYSICS. I'm sorry but just because 'A is A' doesn't mean that the last EIGHTY YEARS of physics are Bunkem. atek3 |
|
Neil Peart was an Objectivist. Listen to all the songs on Moving Pictures, almost all Objectivist in tone, esp. Red Barchetta, Free Will, and The Trees. Rand is a good read, though she could have learned to edit a bit. Reading Atlas Shrugged and paralleling it to what is happening today would be a good school exercise. I was in my Libertarian club in college, which is the appropriate place to discuss such things, and we would debate this stuff ad naseum. But then you get beyond the esoteric discussions and apply what is appropriate to your life. I look at objectivism as a guide out of late teen existentialism. A way to bring the philisophically misguided back to the real world. But eventually it denegrates in to semantic bullshit arguments, devoid of any real action. Plus her relationship ideas are the shits, as look how they turned out for her. Eventually we all have to decide our own guiding principles to make a happy life for ourselves. Great Rush album though. |
|
Quoted: About 2 years ago I considered myself an "objectivist." I've been a libertarian for quite a long time, but objectivism seemed to tie it all together. However, reading other authors and just more in general showed me quite a few flaws in objectivism. Objectivism and the Corruption of Rationality: A Critique of Ayn Rand's Epistemology http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0595267335/lewrockwell/002-9335601-0704041 Here's a good one too: [URL=http://www.free-market.net/forums/main0211/messages/794318371.html]On the sociology of the ayn rand cult[/URL] Mind you, I'll still get along w/ an objectivist more than most other 'ist's' out there. But I happen to like the TOC(the objectivist center) guys more than the ARI(ayn rand institute) guys, as they are MUCH less dogmatic. My main issues with modern objectivism are, their irrational support of israel and taxation to fund it and their complete DENIAL of MODERN PHYSICS. I'm sorry but just because 'A is A' doesn't mean that the last EIGHTY YEARS of physics are Bunkem. atek3 And this is the inherent problem with any "ism." Once you define it rigidy, you confine and restrict it as a result. And complete reality will never truly conform to those strict limitations. As for myself (and I imagine most others), I loosly subscribe to Objectivism, Libertarianism and Conservatism based upon how well it applies to what seems to be the truth based upon my current understanding of reality. |