[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Opening a range/training facility? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 3/8/2017 10:59:07 AM EDT
|
Disclaimer - this is a cross post from the Training section, there's so little traffic there I really haven't received any feedback on this topic, so I wanted you animals here at the zoo to take a swing at it.
The focus would be an indoor range (pistol focused but with frangibles for long guns available for purchase on site only). Location wise I'd want to be in southern NH to target the MA law enforcement communities and the MA tourists (as much as I would want a simple, club/pros only range I think the money would come in from the tourist renters, correct me if I'm wrong? I really want to angle for a "club" focused approach rather than rental based, as my personal passion with firearms is pistol training/defensive usage, and my desired target audience would be law enforcement professionals, competitors and plain old enthusiast like me. In my head I see lanes of traditional firing lines that can be accessed by tourists in groups NO SINGLES, that rents by the hour, and pays to play with hardware and edibles. But what I really want is a "VIP" members area that's basically multiple modular USPSA/IDPA indoor course (or two or 3 or a hundred, you know, however many courses I can afford) Members would pay a due to keep the lights on - maybe even group retainers from counties or PDs to float me - I don't know that's kind of why I'm posting this. So this plan is long term, I'm currently not even residing in that state, that said when I am ready, I should have some decent financial momentum to actualize this. Also, if I can't get in the black with the "club" approach that would mean fleshing out the tourist rental side pretty buff - full auto, short barreled, suppressed stuff from video games. The only experience I have with NFA stuff is a suppressor currently in jail that I paid the silencershop to write a trust up for. Please understand I would always have public firing lines available , the "club" aspect would just be a push for very nice dynamic, advanced ranges with barricades for club members to pay a higher-than-average rate for, or like have schedules nights for different police departments to get their reps in. I was hoping from input/feedback from other range owners, small business owners, or general input from the pistol community community on what they would "pay to play" on. EDIT: I'm thinking individual rooms like an "airport" bay or a "bus station" or "grocery store" or "gas pumps" - does that make more sense? The courses would be modular but would be better representations of environments than some tires and netting. I'm getting pretty lofty here aren't I? Can you imagine two shot-to-shit SUVs crashed head on in the middle of an indoor course with loudspeakers blaring "ambient city noise" and "heckling crowds" as you drill?!?!?!?!? The big thing I'm seeing is a need to understand zoning ordinances before choosing a location - this is another factor leaning me towards indoor range only. I'm not asking for you guys to do my research for me, I'll be periodically revisiting the thread with more questions I've uncovered in my research. Thanks folks. |
|
Quoted:
What will be your fee per hour? Thats pretty much what folks care about. hour for non members to use the basic slow fire lanes. I would think I would need to be at least there, if not higher for the basic lanes for non members, I'd like to be able to facillitate members running on the basic lanes for free too, or maybe having a few basic lanes reserved for members and I would imagine the "advanced" modular shooting booths would be basically members only with no additional hourly rate - but a limit of use per day so no one hogs it. Also like I said a big angle would be getting entire PDs on retainer for a steady inflow of cash and assigning scheduled hours and times for them to have at it - lots of liability for 360 degree, on demand dynamic shooting. I don't know, how does USPSA handle that? They must have some premium insurance. In terms of regular joe-schmo memberships for people like me, I think between $360 - $720.00 a year to get (1) hour a day on the advanced course is reasonable? (works out to $10-$20 an hour for the fancy stuff) Thoughts? |
|
Quoted:
Hire someone with the skills, education, and experience to write a business plan for you. |
|
A few things you need to look into.... Do some online research and find all the indoor ranges in the area, and find out what they offer and for how much. Try and figure out where they are under serving the market and how you can approach that. You can have the most amazing setup in the world but be screwed by awful location.
What exactly is qualified by "financial momentum"? A proper target carrier system, HVAC, and backstop costs serious coin. Costs just continue to rise if you start segmenting rooms, etc. Full Auto can be a lot more complicated than you think. It's easiest to get an 07/02 and Form 2 some machine guns by punching a hole in an AR receiver, but to get "the good stuff" you have to be able to find it, and get a Demo Letter or pay a premium from a "No Law Letter" Post Sample from a closing SOT. Not impossible, but can be difficult depending on the area. Lastly, liability and safety is one of the biggest issues at indoor ranges. Accidents will happen. It is inevitable. The best you can do is minimize the risk as much as possible. Having a more complicated shooting setup just makes it that much more difficult to properly monitor safety. I would also look into the huge advent of "Premium Gun Ranges/Clubs" that are popping up all over the place. The market is certainly headed that direction. Keep in mind, at that level we are talking $5 Million+ in a lot of cases. I even know of one that has a shoot house inside the indoor range with simunitions(might be a possible direction to go). |
|
See if you can get a job working for Battlefield Vegas for a while to get a handle on what you'll be dealing with. It sounds like you've never worked for a range before and I promise you'll screw up and lose hundreds of thousands.
You need to help run USPSA/IDPA matches and train the public too before you do anything. None of that addresses how resistant to outsiders the folks in NH may be trying to pull this off in "their" town. |
|
Its smart to open a small part of the range to the public. This gets people in the door, and if they can look over and see all kinds of tacticool stuff going they will want to join in. Just put up a sign that says "Members only past this point. Ask the front desk how to join!"
FWIW I belong to a small members only tactical range. Things I Like: Its self serve open 7 days a week, 10am - 8pm its rarely busy Things I dont like: cant shoot full auto or bump fire they dont consider pointing your rifle in the air a safe direction. This makes tactical reloads awkward and the opposite of how I like to train. They only have one 70 yard pit for rifles. But have 6-7 pits for pistols. |
|
Quoted:
See if you can get a job working for Battlefield Vegas for a while to get a handle on what you'll be dealing with. It sounds like you've never worked for a range before and I promise you'll screw up and lose hundreds of thousands. You need to help run USPSA/IDPA matches and train the public too before you do anything. None of that addresses how resistant to outsiders the folks in NH may be trying to pull this off in "their" town. Southern NH is like MA , a lot of democrats . |
|
I appreciate the thorough reply
Quoted: A few things you need to look into.... Do some online research and find all the indoor ranges in the area, and find out what they offer and for how much. Try and figure out where they are under serving the market and how you can approach that. You can have the most amazing setup in the world but be screwed by awful location. Excellent advice - I have not done any research on this front yet and have been working off of my 8 year old anecdotal perspective of the supply and demand in the region, I will need to cover this. What exactly is qualified by "financial momentum"? A proper target carrier system, HVAC, and backstop costs serious coin. Costs just continue to rise if you start segmenting rooms, etc. It's way more money than I've ever seen before, but most assuredly WAY fucking less than I will need for this undertaking, if I was to spitball a number I'd say a quarter million + good credit. Full Auto can be a lot more complicated than you think. It's easiest to get an 07/02 and Form 2 some machine guns by punching a hole in an AR receiver, but to get "the good stuff" you have to be able to find it, and get a Demo Letter or pay a premium from a "No Law Letter" Post Sample from a closing SOT. Not impossible, but can be difficult depending on the area. This entire sentence is moonspeak to me - this is my biggest fear - the NFA paperwork shitshow, it's also the least interesting part to me, I want to stay "software" focused vs "hardware" focused, I guess the driving factor will be what actually gets me paid. Lastly, liability and safety is one of the biggest issues at indoor ranges. Accidents will happen. It is inevitable. The best you can do is minimize the risk as much as possible. Having a more complicated shooting setup just makes it that much more difficult to properly monitor safety. I would also look into the huge advent of "Premium Gun Ranges/Clubs" that are popping up all over the place. The market is certainly headed that direction. Keep in mind, at that level we are talking $5 Million+ in a lot of cases. I even know of one that has a shoot house inside the indoor range with simunitions(might be a possible direction to go). Yikes, these numbers, man I'm a small fish...Thing is I don't want to do this in increments I want to take a home run swing at it, I might have unrealistic expectations of my options here.... |
|
Good luck.
We have rentals available for out of staters and I hate dealing with them. Foreigners are worse though. Very stressful. We are about 30-40 minutes south of the mass boarder. We are a public range now but will be more private when we hit a certain number of members. I've heard the owner talk about how much he has into the place. It's a lot. |
|
Quoted:
See if you can get a job working for Battlefield Vegas for a while to get a handle on what you'll be dealing with. It sounds like you've never worked for a range before and I promise you'll screw up and lose hundreds of thousands. That is excellent advice, unfortunately I'm moving back to NH in a few months so there is no wiggle room to cut my teeth at such a bad ass place like that. I will definitely try to farm some experience at a range in NH though before I commit. You need to help run USPSA/IDPA matches and train the public too before you do anything. I begrudgingly admit you are correct here, I'm totally lacking the experience from these angles. None of that addresses how resistant to outsiders the folks in NH may be trying to pull this off in "their" town. Fuck them, NH is my home state, the Snowbirds, new yorkers and massholes can suck a bag of dicks. That said I have read horrer stories about zoning and local resistance, that's one reason I'm set on an indoor facility and I'm preppared for a lengthy war if need be to actualize this. |
|
Quoted:
Why do you think the LE community is your target audience ? Most LE in MA have their own facilities they practice at for free . They also do attend the S&W facility from time to time. |
|
Quoted:
I didn't know that, I guess I can still try to promote that angle but I will start brainstorming alternative angles of "safe consistent cash drip" You could luck out. There's been a problem with a cop range or two around here. Plus, being indoors they can turn off the lights and do their low light qual whenever they want without messing up guys schedule. In the year we've been open the local cops from a couple towns have worked out some packages with the owner. We also have the security guards from Electric Boat(EB) train here. |
|
Quoted:
Good luck. We have rentals available for out of staters and I hate dealing with them. Foreigners are worse though. Very stressful. We are about 30-40 minutes south of the mass boarder. We are a public range now but will be more private when we hit a certain number of members. I've heard the owner talk about how much he has into the place. It's a lot. Initially I wanted to completely ignore the general public as to me this isn't a plinking range so much as a training facility for people who have a similar mantra as me - that self defense pistol training is modern martial arts. But I've been told the snooty exclusionary attitude is off putting to potential customers/members. Quoted:
Good luck. We have rentals available for out of staters and I hate dealing with them. Foreigners are worse though. Very stressful. We are about 30-40 minutes south of the mass boarder. We are a public range now but will be more private when we hit a certain number of members. I've heard the owner talk about how much he has into the place. It's a lot. Initially I wanted to completely ignore the general public as to me this isn't a plinking range so much as a training facility for people who have a similar mantra as me - that self defense pistol training is modern martial arts. But I've been told the snooty exclusionary attitude is off putting to potential customers/members. Quoted: Its smart to open a small part of the range to the public. This gets people in the door, and if they can look over and see all kinds of tacticool stuff going they will want to join in. Just put up a sign that says "Members only past this point. Ask the front desk how to join!" FWIW I belong to a small members only tactical range. Things I Like: Its self serve open 7 days a week, 10am - 8pm its rarely busy Things I dont like: cant shoot full auto or bump fire they dont consider pointing your rifle in the air a safe direction. This makes tactical reloads awkward and the opposite of how I like to train. They only have one 70 yard pit for rifles. But have 6-7 pits for pistols. |
|
Quoted:
Disclaimer - this is a cross post from the Training section, there's so little traffic there I really haven't received any feedback on this topic, so I wanted you animals here at the zoo to take a swing at it. You know why nobody cares and provides feedback.....because you are full of shit. You will never open a range, you will never offer training, and this is a wild dream that will only exist in your head. You don't have the money, the land, nor the ability to follow through on any of this. Because if you had any of the above, you wouldn't bother with a thread....you would be actually doing it. That is why I know you are full of shit, and just a dreamer. Now...go slap yourself in the face as hard as you can for wasting everyone's time. . |
|
Quoted:
I didn't know that, I guess I can still try to promote that angle but I will start brainstorming alternative angles of "safe consistent cash drip" I have memberships at two shooting clubs in CT One has a 100 yard rifle range and an indoor 25 and 50 yard range. The other has skeet , two pistol ranges and a outdoor 400 rifle range. The waiting list to join the one with the indoor range is none, anyone can join at any time. The waiting list for the club with the 400 yard rifle range is about two years at present . What we don't have in abundance in this part of the country is long range shooting. We have plenty of indoor ranges and clubs with pistol ranges in MA and CT If you could find an area where you could open a long range facility , when I say long range I mean 1000 yards plus with steel including movers etc... you would have so many people trying to join you would have to stop taking applications . just a thought |
|
Quoted:
You know why nobody cares and provides feedback.....because you are full of shit. You will never open a range, you will never offer training, and this is a wild dream that will only exist in your head. You don't have the money, the land, nor the ability to follow through on any of this. Because if you had any of the above, you wouldn't bother with a thread....you would be actually doing it. That is why I know you are full of shit, and just a dreamer. Now...go slap yourself in the face as hard as you can for wasting everyone's time.. You are assuming a whole lot, feel free to fuck off now faggot. 
|
|
Quoted:
I have memberships at two shooting clubs in CT One has a 100 yard rifle range and an indoor 25 and 50 yard range. The other has skeet , two pistol ranges and a outdoor 400 rifle range. The waiting list to join the one with the indoor range is none, anyone can join at any time. The waiting list for the club with the 400 yard rifle range is about two years at present . What we don't have in abundance in this part of the country is long range shooting. We have plenty of indoor ranges and clubs with pistol ranges in MA and CT If you could find an area where you could open a long range facility , when I say long range I mean 1000 yards plus with steel including movers etc... you would have so many people trying to join you would have to stop taking applications . just a thought From my research the outdoor range angle would be significantly harder to get moving, as ordinances are much more restrictive and the anti-gunners are more concerned/aware of outdoor facilities. I'm going to have to consult with my architect buddy on the realities of building a 100 yard indoor rifle range, seriously I wonder if it's possible...... |
|
This place really went all out. Similar to the grandiose dream you have.
https://88tactical.com/ |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
I appreciate the thorough reply
Quoted: A few things you need to look into.... Do some online research and find all the indoor ranges in the area, and find out what they offer and for how much. Try and figure out where they are under serving the market and how you can approach that. You can have the most amazing setup in the world but be screwed by awful location. Excellent advice - I have not done any research on this front yet and have been working off of my 8 year old anecdotal perspective of the supply and demand in the region, I will need to cover this. What exactly is qualified by "financial momentum"? A proper target carrier system, HVAC, and backstop costs serious coin. Costs just continue to rise if you start segmenting rooms, etc. It's way more money than I've ever seen before, but most assuredly WAY fucking less than I will need for this undertaking, if I was to spitball a number I'd say a quarter million + good credit. Full Auto can be a lot more complicated than you think. It's easiest to get an 07/02 and Form 2 some machine guns by punching a hole in an AR receiver, but to get "the good stuff" you have to be able to find it, and get a Demo Letter or pay a premium from a "No Law Letter" Post Sample from a closing SOT. Not impossible, but can be difficult depending on the area. This entire sentence is moonspeak to me - this is my biggest fear - the NFA paperwork shitshow, it's also the least interesting part to me, I want to stay "software" focused vs "hardware" focused, I guess the driving factor will be what actually gets me paid. Lastly, liability and safety is one of the biggest issues at indoor ranges. Accidents will happen. It is inevitable. The best you can do is minimize the risk as much as possible. Having a more complicated shooting setup just makes it that much more difficult to properly monitor safety. I would also look into the huge advent of "Premium Gun Ranges/Clubs" that are popping up all over the place. The market is certainly headed that direction. Keep in mind, at that level we are talking $5 Million+ in a lot of cases. I even know of one that has a shoot house inside the indoor range with simunitions(might be a possible direction to go). Yikes, these numbers, man I'm a small fish...Thing is I don't want to do this in increments I want to take a home run swing at it, I might have unrealistic expectations of my options here.... If you haven't done the basic research for the area, and are surprised by the actual cost of building a Range, you shouldn't be doing it. I hate to be What you have outlined would be a multi-million dollar facility, just to build, not including operating costs. You need to do research into what it actually costs to properly build and run a range. 250k isn't even close. If you do want to do it, start small. Starting with small manageable ideas, and building on them with success is how you grow a business. |
|
Quoted:
From my research the outdoor range angle would be significantly harder to get moving, as ordinances are much more restrictive and the anti-gunners are more concerned/aware of outdoor facilities. I'm going to have to consult with my architect buddy on the realities of building a 100 yard indoor rifle range, seriously I wonder if it's possible...... A 100 yard indoor range is possible. We had one in the area that was built at least twenty years ago. It was a very nice facility but ultimately failed. Price tag back then was $750,000. It was on its third owner when it finally closed for good. It's a warehouse now. |
|
Quoted:
See if you can get a job working for Battlefield Vegas for a while to get a handle on what you'll be dealing with. It sounds like you've never worked for a range before and I promise you'll screw up and lose hundreds of thousands. You need to help run USPSA/IDPA matches and train the public too before you do anything. None of that addresses how resistant to outsiders the folks in NH may be trying to pull this off in "their" town. Quoted:
See if you can get a job working for Battlefield Vegas for a while to get a handle on what you'll be dealing with. It sounds like you've never worked for a range before and I promise you'll screw up and lose hundreds of thousands. You need to help run USPSA/IDPA matches and train the public too before you do anything. None of that addresses how resistant to outsiders the folks in NH may be trying to pull this off in "their" town. You would be surprised how folks in a largely republican community would respond as well. While I didn't attend any of the City Meetings, the city we are building in had all sorts of random people coming in to "voice their concerns". "Oh no, the range is within a few miles of a school", etc. That was for establishing ordinances go though, if the area already has a range the waters will be easier to navigate. Quoted: No problem. Currently involved in a project at the moment(wall forms are being poured as I type). Those numbers are for massive facilities that post a whole retail facility, etc. If you are interested a few off the nicer indoor ranges, off the top of my head: Ready Gunner Defender Outdoors Blackstone Indoor Armory Point Blank Range 88 Tactical Frisco Gun Club Scottsdale Gun Club Liberty Firearms Institute The Range at Austin Lotus Gunworks You can certainly build a smaller facility with a significantly smaller amount of money. HVAC/filtration is a significant cost. The NSSF is one of the best resources you can use for information, in addition to a huge survey they do which helps you gauge the market. The major concern for me would be constructing a smaller range only to have a huge McRange pop up right down the street. My numbers could be slightly off but just thinking from memory I think $30-60k per lane is about the average cost. Bare minimum on equipment and such will probably be $500K. Add in building and other stuff and you are looking in the neighborhood of $1 Mil. As far of the full-autos go the main thing to know is that it's largely money-centric and networking based. The paperwork isn't too bad though and most guys in the small market will certainly help you navigate it. Keep in mind with a daily rate only business model indoor ranges usually aren't sustainable. The reason you see these(larger and larger) facilities popping up is largely a factor of necessity. You have a proshop to generate extra money ... then you start doing training because it's one of the best methods for making generating revenue so that necessitates a classroom, etc. |
|
Not much to add besides seems like there is getting to be a high level of range saturation
for the last 30 years around here there were 2 indoor ranges in a 60 mile radius Now there are 7 the start up and maintenance costs are insane and it seems like they are all fighting furiously for customers. |
|
Quoted:
Not much to add besides seems like there is getting to be a high level of range saturation for the last 30 years around here there were 2 indoor ranges in a 60 mile radius Now there are 7 the start up and maintenance costs are insane and it seems like they are all fighting furiously for customers. must be nice...I'm in the middle of two, each about 20 miles away in opposite directions. two outdoor ranges an hour plus away |
|
Quoted:
If you haven't done the basic research for the area, and are surprised by the actual cost of building a Range, you shouldn't be doing it. I hate to be the one piss in your cheerios - but what you have is great idea in theory, but it isn't grounded in reality. What you have outlined would be a multi-million dollar facility, just to build, not including operating costs. You need to do research into what it actually costs to properly build and run a range. 250k isn't even close. If you do want to do it, start small. Starting with small manageable ideas, and building on them with success is how you grow a business. What? I'm supposed to know everything and never ask for someones perspective and that's the only way to qualify as having a legitimate chance? At least the last sentence you typed was constructive, thanks I guess? EDIT: and so far there are exactly two negative nancy posters contributing nothing. The hyper retarded loud mouth and your passive aggressive ass. Everyone else is contributing and delivering content. See ya pal. 
|
|
Quoted:
This place really went all out. Similar to the grandiose dream you have. https://88tactical.com/ |
|
Quoted:
Not much to add besides seems like there is getting to be a high level of range saturation for the last 30 years around here there were 2 indoor ranges in a 60 mile radius Now there are 7 the start up and maintenance costs are insane and it seems like they are all fighting furiously for customers. A few years back I went to Charlotte to do some market research, and was amazed at not only the amount, but the quality of the Indoor Ranges. I have a personal theory that it's largely a factor of the competitive market. Having a range and a store is much more attractive than just a store to a lot of consumers, and so once someone does it, someone else has to do it bigger and better, so on and so forth. Interesting thing is there you have Hyatt(largest gun store), which is absolutely spectacular in terms of inventory, and they don't need a range to be competitive. |
|
Quoted:
must be nice...I'm in the middle of two, each about 20 miles away in opposite directions. two outdoor ranges an hour plus away Quoted:
Quoted:
Not much to add besides seems like there is getting to be a high level of range saturation for the last 30 years around here there were 2 indoor ranges in a 60 mile radius Now there are 7 the start up and maintenance costs are insane and it seems like they are all fighting furiously for customers. must be nice...I'm in the middle of two, each about 20 miles away in opposite directions. two outdoor ranges an hour plus away For years my boss wanted to open a range but just could never get the numbers to work out as the costs of a range are staggering. It will be interesting in a few years how many are left , with no other research except for driving by and looking at the parking lot a couple look like they are constantly busy , the rest are ghost towns. |
|
Quoted:
This place really went all out. Similar to the grandiose dream you have. https://88tactical.com/ I've been miring the hell of that place from a distance. Absolutely love the approach they took, including the rappel tower and the Ammo Box Cafe. I've been debating making a trip up there way to check it out. |
|
Quoted:
From my research the outdoor range angle would be significantly harder to get moving, as ordinances are much more restrictive and the anti-gunners are more concerned/aware of outdoor facilities. I'm going to have to consult with my architect buddy on the realities of building a 100 yard indoor rifle range, seriously I wonder if it's possible...... It's certainly possible, and multiple ranges already have it or are doing it, including the one we're building. |
|
Quoted:
I've been miring the hell of that place from a distance. Absolutely love the approach they took, including the rappel tower and the Ammo Box Cafe. I've been debating making a trip up there way to check it out. Quoted:
Quoted:
This place really went all out. Similar to the grandiose dream you have. https://88tactical.com/ I've been miring the hell of that place from a distance. Absolutely love the approach they took, including the rappel tower and the Ammo Box Cafe. I've been debating making a trip up there way to check it out. that's one of the 7 that have recently popped up in my AO nice place , most of the people involved are decent guys |
|
Quoted:
This place really went all out. Similar to the grandiose dream you have. https://88tactical.com/ Why would you open a facility in the one city/county in the entire state where you don't have 2A rights and have to beg permission to buy a handgun? And even having read their "about us", where they talk about the name being Nebraska police code... really? 88 Tactical? Place looks slick, but geez... |
|
Quoted:
This is why I am asking for input from people with experience. And I have been doing research for two weeks now - this is how the researching process works, you make assumptions and then attempt to verify them or not, dismissing the data that is invalid. What? I'm supposed to know everything and never ask for someones perspective and that's the only way to qualify as having a legitimate chance? At least the last sentence your type was constructive, thanks I guess? The point isn't meant to be mean, but to give you truth. Some people have grandiose ideas that are not feasible. You wanted advice? That's mine - you should focus your investments somewhere else. If you've been researching for 2 weeks, and haven't realized that the cost of the structure alone for a small indoor range is close to a million bucks (sticks and bricks), then either you haven't really been researching anything other than what guns you want to have to rent, or you are totally unable to see reality. Starting a business is a great endeavor, and I applaud anyone that takes the leap to do so. But a lot of people fail because they get so caught up in their idea, and wanting to see it come to life, that they are not capable of taking an objective look at what they're planning. Maybe I mis-read your prior info, but I think you said you have 250k + Credit. That doesn't even build a decent CBS house on a slab. And even with good credit, you'd need a pretty sizable loan to accomplish what you're looking for, even if you put all 250k down. If you are dead set on this - you need to first research online what it costs to build a range - there's plenty of advice already available, because someone comes up with this idea every other week and gets pretty much the same response. Then start visiting some of the facilities like you have outlined. Ask to speak with the owner, and see if they'll give you an idea of costs (construction and operating). Then talk to some contractors in your area and see what a structure like that would cost. Finally take all that info and compile it into a business plan. ETA: you need a business plan to get any kind of loan - and if isn't air tight and supported with actual figures and projections, you're going to get laughed out of every lender you speak to. |
|
Crowded market.
Differentiate your facility somehow (find your niche) and market the heck out of yourself (exploit the niche). Let me or any of Arfcom's design crew know how we can help. Edit- this is once you get all the other sundries sorted, like building the place and attracting training talent.
|
|
Quoted:
that's one of the 7 that have recently popped up in my AO nice place , most of the people involved are decent guys Seems like it. I think they have the best execution of most of the facilities I've seen pop up over the last three years. You can certainly see the market really moving towards training more than anything, and they went all out on that aspect. |
|
Quoted:
I work for a company that had a small chain of gun stores ( we have focused on the internet the last few years and now just have 1 location ) For years my boss wanted to open a range but just could never get the numbers to work out as the costs of a range are staggering. It will be interesting in a few years how many are left , with no other research except for driving by and looking at the parking lot a couple look like they are constantly busy , the rest are ghost towns. Have you been to Take Aim? I started going there over The Bullet Hole (crap). My days off are usually during the week and it was always pretty empty. I have yet to check out Omaha Gun Club. Only 50 yard indoor which is nice. Shooting the AR at 25 yards is rather boring. |
|
Quoted:
If you've been researching for 2 weeks, and haven't realized that the cost of the structure alone for a small indoor range is close to a million bucks (sticks and bricks), then either you haven't really been researching anything other than what guns you want to have to rent, or you are totally unable to see reality. But way to be condescending in a manner totally inappropriate and unwarranted. You completely lack reading comprehension and rational sequitur conversation skills. You are literally repeating things I previously acknowledged with a smarty pants air of cache you simply don't have on the subject. I don't need anymore of your purported advice, Sorry to all the other guys who are making meaningful contributions that I have no responded to yet - work just picked up, I will revisit later. I just kind had to take this farthead dead on because I'm sick of his tone. EDIT: because I'm legit triggered at this windbag and am slamfiring on my keyboard EDIT2: OK I didn't acknowledge my financial shortcomings in the OP - I felt like I had but it wasn't stated clear. But I did immediately address that in my follow up post. For the sake of posterity that needed to be said. |
|
Quoted:
This is why I am asking for input from people with experience. And I have been doing research for two weeks now - this is how the researching process works, you make assumptions and then attempt to verify them or not, dismissing the data that is invalid. What? I'm supposed to know everything and never ask for someones perspective and that's the only way to qualify as having a legitimate chance? At least the last sentence you typed was constructive, thanks I guess? EDIT: and so far there are exactly two negative nancy posters contributing nothing. The hyper retarded loud mouth and your passive aggressive ass. Everyone else is contributing and delivering content. See ya pal. Well to be fair anyone who is serious about opening up a range should have a better understanding of the potential market, costs and things that your OP made sound like you do not. That you think having multiple rooms with shit like multiple vehicles in them is just something you do cause it sounds cool tells me you just have no idea what you are talking about. If you are serious just call the NSSF and the NRA to get an idea what others do, why they do it and the challenges that are universal with indoor facilities. Asking random people on the internet what they think would be cool to do at a range you haven't built in a state you don't even live in yet kind of sounds like the kid going to the recruiting office talking about how cool being a SEAL will be. Something I learned long ago is ask the people who are doing what you want to do about how they do it. Asking random people "Does this sound cool and do you have any cool ideas" is just mental masturbation. No one has any skin in the game. No one is actually going to put up any time, money or effort to prove their good idea. Shit that works in one part of the country won't work in another. One little local ordinance can make the whole thing impossible. No one knows because the idea/plan is so broad and unfocused its really just more of a daydream. Which is cool, lot of shit starts that way but don't get all but hurt when strangers don't take you serious. Especially when it sounds like your family is going to be both the brains and the money behind the theoretical project. |
|
Quoted:
A few years back I went to Charlotte to do some market research, and was amazed at not only the amount, but the quality of the Indoor Ranges. I have a personal theory that it's largely a factor of the competitive market. Having a range and a store is much more attractive than just a store to a lot of consumers, and so once someone does it, someone else has to do it bigger and better, so on and so forth. Interesting thing is there you have Hyatt(largest gun store), which is absolutely spectacular in terms of inventory, and they don't need a range to be competitive. Quoted:
Quoted:
Not much to add besides seems like there is getting to be a high level of range saturation for the last 30 years around here there were 2 indoor ranges in a 60 mile radius Now there are 7 the start up and maintenance costs are insane and it seems like they are all fighting furiously for customers. A few years back I went to Charlotte to do some market research, and was amazed at not only the amount, but the quality of the Indoor Ranges. I have a personal theory that it's largely a factor of the competitive market. Having a range and a store is much more attractive than just a store to a lot of consumers, and so once someone does it, someone else has to do it bigger and better, so on and so forth. Interesting thing is there you have Hyatt(largest gun store), which is absolutely spectacular in terms of inventory, and they don't need a range to be competitive. Hyatt competitive???? 50% over everyone else maybe. I have always thought it was just a front to launder money because I can't see anyone ever paying their prices. |
|
What do you bring to the table? What is your street cred? LEO, Military, National Champion in one of the shooting sports? If you say you're an NRA Certified Instructor, just stop. There are thousands of them in circulation (I've been one for twenty years). Being an NRA Instructor and having $5 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.
The LE market is effectively closed to you. Most departments have access to ranges and their own LE instructors. Most cops hate playing with civilians. Places like Gunsite can attract some LE participants but most of them are doing so on their own dime. What is your experience at retail? Essentially you're going into the specialty retail industry. It's brutal. How do you like dealing with customers? Suppliers? Lenders? Have you constructed a detailed business plan? Can you live for a year without taking a salary out of the business? Do you like working 80 hours a week? Can you read a financial statement? Can you construct a financial statement? Do you know the difference between a partnership and an LLC? Have you spoken with an insurance agent? Planning and Zoning Department? I've been in commercial lending/economic development for close to forty years. These questions barely scratch the surface. |
|
Quoted:
Well to be fair... It's my fucking money It's my fucking brain It's my fucking research My pop writes business plans all the time, that would be his utility. To be fair, you're full of shit and didn't contribute jack shit except underhand passive aggressive manure. OK so I have a reasonable immediate "to do" list. 1) Contact NRA and farm them for info 2) Contact Architect friendo and farm him for info 3) Scour over the shitton graciously of provided links 4) Significantly trim the fat on my business model - drop the notion of doing it all in one shot 5) Move back to NH (my home state guys, I own property there - I'm not a fucking stranger to it) 6) Begin "boots on the ground" location scouting, feel out the locals and the demands of the area 7) Work at a gun range to farm real experience 8) get involved with USPSA/IPSC on the management side This looks like about 1-2 years worth of stuff I now have lined out. To all the retards assuming this is hot air, I'll start a thread in the coming months about my progress. |