Posted: 9/4/2009 12:50:57 PM EDT
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I've been wanting a few extra drops installed in my house. The guy came out today from the company that we use. He didn't want to run the phone line thru the attic to the wall and drop it that way. Instead he wanted to run it across the front of the house, staple to the sophit (spelling?) and then drop it down to the exterior wall to the room that it was going in, drill a hole, and then install the box inside the house. Something about that does not seem right. I want it run thru the attic. Really, how hard is it to run the line thru the attic down the wall and then cut a small hole to fish it out and then make the hole for the phone jack? It just seems like the guy is being lazy to me. Am I wrong here?
Oh, they charge 60 bucks an hour or 1$ a minute. One more thing, the guy said he didn't like the idea of going thru the attic and down the interior of the wall because it's possible that he could cut a hole in the wrong spot on the wall.  
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Find someone else to do the install. No big deal running a line in the attic, and if he cant make sure to drill the hole in the right spot, then he shouldn't be installing lines. That's what I was thinking. My wife thinks I'm being critical of something I know nothing about. Hell, I may not know how to run lines and splice telephone line but that just seems like the lazy way to do it. Not the "right" way to do it. |
its only a two wire connection.| Doing it outside is the quick and dirty method. Cable guys do it all the time. When I bought my my house,it was wrapped in cable. pulled it all and redid it myself.Drilling and fishing take a lot of time. I did all mine inside the wall. The best thing to do its to do it yourself and bring all the wires to a central point so the tech can connect them all at the same place. The charge may be 60 bucks,but I'm very confident he does not get it all. |
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Just cut a hole in the drywall inside where you want the phone jack and use a "caddy fastener", then mount a wallplate with a jack to that. Thats how i would do it, really easy
Do you have a fishtape? you just need some rigid wire to push up the wall, through the insulation. Tape the cable to it, and pull it back down the wall. You can run the new wire all the way from your TNI (telephone network interface) box it's usually outside your house somewhere. or cut your existing phone line and use a connector to splice your new cable in there. I would use some sort of connector, don't just twist them together and use electrical tape. Caddy Fastener Phone Jack Wall Plate B-connectors Splice 3M UR Splice Connectors |
If it is an uninsulated interior wall then its no big deal. Use a string, tape measure, magnetic telescopic stick and metal washer. Interior walls are easy to find because normally you can see the top plates in the attic. then just measure off known point, drill big enough hole for washer to fit, tie washer on end of string, tie other end to phone line, cut your holes same distance from known point, lower washer down to a little lower than the hole in the wall, use magnetic stick to find the washer and pull it thru opening.( You can use fish tape but I think that they are a pain) As far as splicing into existing its easy you just unplug your main phone line coming into the house in the phone box(small current running thru phone line and small chance of causing a short if you don't). Same color wires all get wire nutted togeter(2 greens from existing line that you cut to the new green, blues to blue, etc.) Then check your existing jacks to make sure of how they are wired and copy that when you wire your new jacks. Plug main back in and done. Oh ya and make your wife clean up the mess.
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I just looked it up. I just might do it myself. One thing, do I mount the phone jack box to a stud like you do with other types of boxes? I prefer to, but it's not 100% necessary. You can get jacks that have adhesive on the back to mount almost anywhere. |
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Tell him, "You're fired. Leave now." He is a lazy bum. You NEVER run cable outside like that. If he works for a company, call his boss and tell why you fired him. Pretty much everyone runs cable outside, Get DISH or DirecTV installed. I almost guarantee you they'll run the cable outside. It'll cost you extra if they fish the wall. Most companies don't like trying to fish the wall, so they just take the easy route. |
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dumb stupid lazy guy find a good low voltage electrition by calling your local elect supply store $25 dollar job Not a 25 dollar job at all. I do exactly this type of work, although I only do commercial and not residential for my employer. Residential is usually more complicated. Finding the right spot in an attic to drill a hole and hit the wall is challenging. Also, outside walls of a house can be more challenging depending on which wall it is. If it is a side of the house that the roof slants toward it is very hard to drill into the deck as the slope of the wall will not allow the room to even get a drill into. Even then it is easier than running all the way around the house and drilling in from the outside thats just sloppiness, we call companies that do shit like that 'trunkers'. As they work out of the trunk of their car. You can't just shove bailing wire up the wall it's not stiff enough and besides, you will run into the ceiling deck, They make a tool for doing this that is called a fish tape. Inexpensive at you local hardware store. All you have to do is find where an electrical wire drops down that wall and make sure you drill even with that, 3/8 is the largest that you would need depending on the cable you are using it could be smaller, should put you right in the middle of the wall. Cut a hole where you want the new line to be that is barely large enough to fit one of those blue elect. boxes and run your fish tape down from the top. Grab it at the bottom then tape your new phone cable to it and pull the tape down till you have the phone cable, then pull the tape back up the wall. If it were me I would charge between 60 and 100, depending on how far away the nearest line in the attic to splice into was, and which wall of the house it was on. You don't have to go out and buy a fish tape specifically either, anything straight and stiff that is long enough to get through insulation and down to the hole in the wall will work. If it is not long enough to pull more out at the bottom tape your phone cable to the leading end when you push it down. Goes better with two people. The splicing is the easiest part. op if you have any questions im me eta:I've been beaten! +100 on the caddy fastener, I just thought he might recognize the blue box a little easier. Ane you can buy them at most hardware stores. |
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What kind of house, slab or crawl space? Where do you want the jacks, interior or exterior wall? Anyone who quotes you $25 to fish a wall does not know what they're doing.
You can get a nice base unit, multiple handset cordless phone setup for about the same price as the drywall repair where your foot went thru the ceiling. 
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I have been doing this stuff for 24 years. Depending on where you want the cable it can be easy
to a major PITA to major construction to get a line exactly where you want it. If you are flexible as to location it can make things a whole lot easier. We charge 69 bucks an hour plus the cost of the cable run to do a wall fish. Around 94 bucks at minimum. They charge that much for a reason. |
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dumb stupid lazy guy find a good low voltage electrition by calling your local elect supply store $25 dollar job eta:I've been beaten! +100 on the caddy fastener, I just thought he might recognize the blue box a little easier. Ane you can buy them at most hardware stores. I only know a little about cabling, so i was hoping i wouldn't get bashed on for suggesting the caddy. They've always worked great for me.
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Wow, I didn't realize we had this many pros in here. Cool. Like others have said, it is not as simple as sticking the wire in the wall and pulling it out the bottom. Many factors (overhead access, firestops, insulation) can make what sounds like a simple job into a whole lot more then you bargain for. To fish a wall: 1. Determine where you want the jack 2. Check in the attic or crawl space for access to the header of the wall you want it on. 3. Determine if there are firebreaks (2x4s spanning the studs about half way up) in the wall (use a studfinder and hope it isn't lying to you) 4. Drill hole in header big enough to accomidate fish rod and wire (I typically use a 1/2 bit for a single cat5) A bit big, but allows for extra wire in the future. Headers are typically 2 2x4s stacked on top of each other. They are just a hair thicker then a standard length drill bit. 5. Insert semi flexible rod in wall (I have specialized fiberglass rods for this, referred to as fish sticks, green sticks or fish rods). 6. Drop stick all the way down to footer inside wall (that verifies lack of firebreaks) 7. Verify that you are in the correct bay that you want the jack in (can have someone listen while you rattle the stick around inside the wall, or tape a wire to the stick and use a line toner to verify. 8. Cut hole in wall for retrofit box (Old work box or retro ring) 9. Tape wire to stick 10. Push wire and stick back down wall. 11. Reach into hole, retrieve wire. 12. Install and secure retro ring (you don't need closed back boxes for LV wiring). 13. Install jack, wallplate etc. 14. Terminate other end of wire at phone distribution point. That is the way that this gets done most of the time. Commercial LV is a whole different ballgame then resi most of the time (no firebreaks, uninsulated walls, drop ceilings etc in commercial most of the time). I have had wall fishes that take longer to get my tools out then it does to do the job. I have also spent 1/2 a day on a single jack. There is an infinite number of variables that one can come up against when doing this sort of work. Too bad you are on the other side of the country, I would come over and do it for you at an ARFCommer discount (I do work for ammo too). |
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I used to do residential. On an external wall, you run the risk of being blocked by horizontal ferring strips at the top of the wall between the drywall and the block. If the roof tapers down over that wall, you don't have enough space to crawl to the top of the wall in the attic to check for ferring strips. What I used to do is find a power outlet on the wall and remove the face plate. Send a fish tape up the wall through the gap between the outlet's box and the drywall. If it goes all the way up into the attic, send alot of it up so you can easily get a hold of it in the attic. If it won't go, you're probably ferred. At that point, try an interior wall. I used to hit horizontal beams half way up interior walls too, so do the same outlet fish tape test, especially in newer construction homes.
It does sound like your guy is kinda on the lazy side. He could have spent 5 minutes "taping" the wall, rather than just saying "nope" without at least trying first. If I was closer, I'd come help. I'm in the Tampa area. If you're in south GA (my home state), let me know. |
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snip It does sound like your guy is kinda on the lazy side. He could have spent 5 minutes "taping" the wall, rather than just saying "nope" without at least trying first. If I was closer, I'd come help. I'm in the Tampa area. If you're in south GA (my home state), let me know. I'm actually in Kingsland. On the SE Coast of the state. The house is split in two, attic wise, since I have a vaulted ceiling. there is an access panel for both halves. The one drop I want is in the living room behind the entertainment center. That one actually wouldn't be hard considering I can see phone lines running thru the attic about 3 feet from the access in the garage. The other two I want are in the two spare roooms which are back to back. Imagine facing two rooms with the doors in the center where the wall seperates them. Now, the room on the right has a jack already installed on the wall that seperates the two rooms. I want a line in the room on the left. Basically, just run a parrallel line to the room on the right and I guess have back to back jacks. The room on the right, I want another jack installed so I can be flexable with how the computer desk is set up since it's getting turned into a nursery soon. The wall where I want the jack has a power outlet in it, I wanted the jack to go next to it so the access shouldn't be too much of an issue. The only issue really is getting the telephone wire across the vaulted ceiling, really, it wouldn't be that hard. That guy didn't say that he absolutely would not do it this way. From what my wife said though, he basically doesn't want to do it this way and was making excuses to not do it. (like, cutting a hole in the wrong spot  ) He was also saying that it would potentially cost me much more money. Hell, if it helps him speed up, I'll drag the damn line thru the attic. I've expressed wanting to do it myself but my wife is already bitching saying that she would prefer that I just paid someone to do it. How am I supposed to learn if I'm just paying someone else to do it.
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Too easy not to do it yourself. I have no idea how to splice into the existing line.  I would do it if I knew what I was doing. My wife would never let me live it down if I fubared the phone lines.Phone wiring (POTS) is real forgiving for the most part. If you have an extension anywhere near where you want the new one, you can just run the new wire into the existing jack. Just double up on the contact posts. That might not be the "right" way, but it works. I've even been known to cut an existing wire, connect both cut ends up to a jack like that, then connect the new extension up same-same, and bury the jack back in the wall. That's a seriously half-assed way to do things, but it'll get a dialtone 
The problem with those setups is they're hard to troubleshoot when something goes wrong, and when something does go wrong, it's usually in those setups. |
| you are right here, I did telecom for god knows how many years and the trhough the attic or basement and up or down through the wall cavity is the correct way to do it and not hard if you have any idea waht you are doing. running wire and drilling through the soffit is quick and dirty ––oh and laden with pitfalls if the installer chooses the wrong place to drill. He just does not want to sweat in a hot attic..... Do it your way. You can cut in an old work box and either drill through the top plate of the wall and drop a weighted string to the box hole ––sometimes you can just drop the wire and get lucky and grab it. Or run a fishtape up or down and pull a string back up. Drop a chain ––small chain like you'd hang a light fixture with and swing it so a partner can grab it OR buy a 6 foot long flex bit at home depot and run it up the hole for the box drill it through the top plate hook the wire on it ––through the hole in the bit tip and use it to pull the wire back down etc there are any number of methods you can use just be sure you are in the right place and double check before you drill....... watch out for cripple studs,flex,plumbing etc insulated walls can be a bitch but can be done just as handily as hollow walls. Good luck |
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snip It does sound like your guy is kinda on the lazy side. He could have spent 5 minutes "taping" the wall, rather than just saying "nope" without at least trying first. If I was closer, I'd come help. I'm in the Tampa area. If you're in south GA (my home state), let me know. I'm actually in Kingsland. On the SE Coast of the state. The house is split in two, attic wise, since I have a vaulted ceiling. there is an access panel for both halves. The one drop I want is in the living room behind the entertainment center. That one actually wouldn't be hard considering I can see phone lines running thru the attic about 3 feet from the access in the garage. The other two I want are in the two spare roooms which are back to back. Imagine facing two rooms with the doors in the center where the wall seperates them. Now, the room on the right has a jack already installed on the wall that seperates the two rooms. I want a line in the room on the left. Basically, just run a parrallel line to the room on the right and I guess have back to back jacks. The room on the right, I want another jack installed so I can be flexable with how the computer desk is set up since it's getting turned into a nursery soon. The wall where I want the jack has a power outlet in it, I wanted the jack to go next to it so the access shouldn't be too much of an issue. The only issue really is getting the telephone wire across the vaulted ceiling, really, it wouldn't be that hard. That guy didn't say that he absolutely would not do it this way. From what my wife said though, he basically doesn't want to do it this way and was making excuses to not do it. (like, cutting a hole in the wrong spot ) He was also saying that it would potentially cost me much more money. Hell, if it helps him speed up, I'll drag the damn line thru the attic. I've expressed wanting to do it myself but my wife is already bitching saying that she would prefer that I just paid someone to do it. How am I supposed to learn if I'm just paying someone else to do it.My weekend actually got kinda busy, so I couldn't end up going anywhere. If I wasn't sure about where to drop a line through the top plate, I used to take a long, skinny flat-tipped screwdriver (mine was made by Klein) and poke it through the ceiling about an inch away from the wall above where I wanted the jack. Don't dig around with it, just push it through and it'll stay there til you pull it out. Now go look for it in the attic and drill your top plate there. Assuming your ceiling is white, use white caulk to plug the hole when you're done. You can texture it accordingly for popcorn, smooth, etc. You'll never see where it was from the floor when all's said and done. The nearby power outlet could also be helpful. Usually, that ROMEX runs straight up into the attic. It would have its own hole already drilled in the top plate, and would serve as a reference point too without having to use the screwdriver. For the back-to-back rooms, could you take the existing face plate off the jack in the right room and poke a screwdriver through the hole to the other side for a new jack location in the left room? Once you have a hole, you could cut the square of drywall out and put a low-voltage thingy in there. I can't remember what they call them now, but someone up above posted it I think. If you need a hand with color codes, I have them all memorized. In newer homes, the contractors liked to use cheap wire and pull it tight between jacks. This makes it difficult to splice into, having no slack. I usually just ran dedicated lines from the box outside to the jacks I was installing. Good luck with it, and post or IM me with any questions you come up with. I try to log in here every day or two. |
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The company I work for charges $120 flatrate for a phone jack install. That is exactly how we do it. Wrap the exterior and drill a hole thru the wall. That IS the industry standard method. It takes a lot of time to fish walls, attics and crawl spaces. Most companies don't want $30-$40 an hour techs taking that much time on a job. Do it yourself. it's not hard. Most phone jacks are red, green, yellow, and black. Others may be Blue/White, Orange/White.
Blue of the Blue/White goes to red White of the Blue/White goes to green Orange of the Orange/White goes to yellow White of the Orange/White goes to black You really only need to hook up the Red/Green - Blue/White pair. Don't bother trying to fasten it to a stud. Use an "old work" electrical box. Cut a hole in the sheetrock of correct size and it mounts from the front. Easy, secure, fast. Fishing the wire is the hardest part. I do it for a living, If you have questions ask away. I.C. |
| Our company policy is not to fish walls. The guy could be protecting himself.I have done it but,Its not as easy as some would lead you to believe.If the guy took all day and charged you 500 bucks you would be sick.You can do it yourself but, never splice the wire for the jacks run the wire all the way to the outside and label the wires with the jack they go to.........................or one day you will wish you had.:) |