Posted: 1/17/2005 12:21:11 PM EDT
| Was relayed a story of a recent encounter that happened to a "friend of a friend" who used his ASP to snap the shin bone of an attacker. Was being charged by a man he spotted assaulting a woman, he hunched down as the attacker approached and struck the assailant in the shin......which resulted in the bad guy skidding across the ground crying like a bitch. Broken leg bone. What's the deal withthese ASPs? Are they the collapseable batons? What are they made out of. I may "need" one of these bad boys. |
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www.galls.com/gaweb.dll That should about cover it. Just type in ASP in the search box in the upper left corner. |
The PR-24 or "Rodney King Stick"  is not a tool to be used by the untrained individual.Many of the techniques for the PR-24 are direct derivatives of those used for the martial arts weapon called a Tonfa, which originated in the days of Japanese feudalism when ordinary folks were prohibited from owning weapons (WHAT A CONCEPT!! GASP!!) The Tonfa was orginally a handle on a mill stone. The ASP collabsible batons are made of The are good as general purpose impact weapons, and offer a unique "level of force", that being the "act" of deploying it. One DAT instructor told me about when he first got an ASP so long ago, the first guy he pulled it out on thought it was a sword of all things (chrome model  ) and was compliant without further incident.I would check your local laws before arming yourself with this type of impact weapon, as it is not a "dual-use" item, ie. there is only one obvious reason for having it. Of course, YYMV. Good luck. 
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You're right. All they are are telescoping batons. The beauty is they weigh very little, and take up as much room on a duty belt as a mini-mag light. You ALWAYS have it with you. A standard wooden baton is a royal PITA to lug around, plus there's the "Why you got that there baton???" With an ASP, you can literally deploy it in a second! From situation cool, to suitable use of force in a heartbeat! |
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In my Agency the Monondock & Winchester brand are more common than ASP brand. What i have noticed with the ASP type clubs is they are more like to break bones and cut flesh than the older night stick or PR24. I prefer not to get suspects blood on me if possible. So i still use OC spray or a night stick. I have seen some spectacularly broken limbs from ASP strikes. As for the PR24. Someone who is really good with one, can generate a tremendous amount of power. but most people cant use one that well. out of my academy class of 46 recruits, only one guy in the class was really really able to hit harder with a PR24 than a straight stick. however the PR24 comes into it's own in two handed crowd control techniques. |
| ASP is a brand name, they are collapseable batons. Most are made out of steel. With the collapseable baton, the user learns 3 moves. With the PR-24 there are a lot of moves and most users do not remember them all. But duing a fight the user will mostly use only 1 move, like with Rodney King. |
Only error I see is the Tonfa (or Tuifa) did NOT originate in Feudal Japan (it was not introduced to Japan until the early 20th century and by most accounts by Shinken Taira), it originated in Okinawa and was used as a weapon of defense against the invading Satsuma Clan who established a weapon ban. And while many Okinawan weapons were certainly derived from farm implements (the kama and the kai), many such as the sai and "possibly" the tonfa were actually imported from Fukien China where they already were weapons. This weapon certainly exists in Fukien martial arts but the debate is whether it went from Fukien to Okinawa with the art of Fukien Chinese Boxing or from Okinawa back to Fukien where it was incorporated into the existing style. Most "imported" weapons were given a farm tool "cover story" lest the possessor be executed for violating the weapons edicts. |
seems like it would work better if hold the head and hit them with the handle?
Uh... ok. ETA: So, technically, my post is at least partly correct, in that I said it originated in the days of Japonese feualdism, and not IN feudal Japan. 
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Don't feel bad you were correct about everything else.  |
paging Spelling/Grammer Nazis
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Lets all say it together... Get a girlfriend!!!  just kidding guys.
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I carry an asp, havent used it though. It is steel and telescoping, they are made in several different sizes and have a solid ball at the end. They do require training to employ effectively. I flat guarantee it will break bones. I whacked a (long since)dead dear with it and shattered ribs easily. Sure live or even fresh bones will be tougher but in any case it'll hurt like hell. I know officers that have whacked the hell out of noncompliant tweekers to no avail. Drug users may be unaffected by the pain from impact you might have to break something to gain their compliance. Personally I believe there are better non lethal options for most folks. Check out the taser x26c they're not cheap but a seriously effective tool.
Is anything legal in Kalifornia or did they pretty well ban everything? |
Yes, Texas has a lot of silly laws. A CHL owner can carry a .44 Automag under a trenchcoat legally, but not a 14 inch baton. |
Nice description: ASP® 21" Expandable Baton Full-size authority and reliability in an easy to carry package. [cartman]You will respect my authoritah![chickenlover episode] |
| I believe , idf used with proper technique and training a ASP or similar can be used effectively and without breaking bones. I found ans ASP has good psycho value as a deteriant. Most folks see and hear it being opened and think twice. Downside is where do ya put it if ya need to escalate force or ggrapple w/ someone? Check local laws too, as previously stated. |
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Steel expandable stick/pipe. Target areas are upper arms, thigh areas and stomach areas. If you get away from these and you can really ruin someones year. Other uses, breaking out windows or clearing glass from sills. Used on a very buff convict once. OC wasn't effective. The ASP had him down and crying. Not a pleasant experience for either of us. Would have been nicer if he just complied. Bottom line: I went home and he went back to prison. |
Well AS LONG AS YOU WENT HOME SAFE THAT NIGHT.  Sorry, just kidding!!! Chris |
| Be aware that you will probably carry the same liability with that as you would a gun if used in pretty much any situation. LEO are taught to strike "major muscle groups" to induce pain compliance by inducing cramping etc. If they miss, they better have a good reason, same as if they had an AD on a bad guy. Indiscriminate use even in a "situation" may get you fucked as much as if you misused your CCW . Pulling it out and waving it around and such will probably get you a UUW charge along with assault, DOC, etc. depending on if your PD are a bunch of jags or not. Best make sure the threat is real- |
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Huge size disparity and trying to make a felony arrest. I don't enjoy inflicting pain on anyone. No offense taken. You should always check your local laws before carrying something like this. A regular old wooden cane or walking staff would probably be more appropriate, imho |
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My experience. The nice part about the ASP is that it is usually always on your gun belt unlike the PR24 which usually ends up on the passenger seat of the Crown Victoria. The "snikt" sound that it makes when you deploy it is also somewhat intimdating and can end a dispute right there. Should you have to use it, steel defeats bone every time. |
Not in my state. Impact weapons are injury force, not pain compliance. You hit with a baton with the intent to cause injuries that take away the suspects ability to resist. Essentially you are trying to break arm & leg bones. |
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I have carried one since about 1993 or so. I've used it several times as a civilian. It was better than drawing my firearm. One time, I was helping a female friend leave an abusive live-in. He was a druggie and a real bully. He started in on me and started pushing me and giving the old threats. He started poking me in the chest and after several commands to stop, I deployed my ASP and pushed him back with the tip. She later told me she never saw him afraid of anyone as he was of me. Resulted in nobody injured other than feelings. I had to deploy it working security one time. Had a guy in a fight come charging at me full on. I deployed the ASP and "struck the defensive pose" as it were. The kid stopped right in his tracks and just stared at me. I had a Mesa PD officer about 10 feet behind me backing me up and the officer called out that somebody was fixing to get an ass whooping. The subject became real compliant until after I handed him off to an MCSO Deputy. Then the kid bolted and we needed to chase him down. We got him. I like the ASP as another level of force. I like the fact that it is not as serious as drawing a firearm. I usually carry the ASP when I can't carry a firearm with me, unless it is a secure area. I remember having PD guys come up and ask me about the ASP, as they still had the full PR24 or worse. Nevada State Patrol used to carry the colapse PR24's and that was a little better, but not as compact as an ASP. I love them and I will always have one. BTW, I got training from a certified ASP instructor back in 1993/94. Can't remember now. I never rely on something without training. The only thing I don't like about them is while chasing someone, they will open up and I work in plain clothes a lot. So, I'm chasing down the fastest man on earth, shirt blowing in the breeze, USP in a Galco bouncing around and my ASP decides to telescope and dangle around my knees, while calling for help and giving position fixes on my radio. Oh well, not like I can hide my identity running after some dirtbag. |
You are not deploying it right. You need to snap it open with mucho force. It's kind of like billiards and the Border Patrol, the harder you hit, more english..... No offense to any pool ball or BP agent. |
Well, when you're in a knock down drag out fight in an 800 square foot ghetto apartment, you really can't hollar time out, give a heave and a ho, and deliver a text book deployment. Trust me. |
I bet it was still better than nothing.
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I like them. As has been said many times in this thread, its not annoying and obtrusive to carry, it just sits on your patrol belt like a Stinger flashlight or something. You will have it with you when you go to a job as opposed to your straight stick or PR24 sitting in the car. My dept only allows the black ones because the chrome is more "menacing"  it is more menacing... I have heard the thing about people thinking its a sword at first. but thats what you want. The more menacing something is the less likely you will actually have to use it to hurt someone. Thats why Swat/ESU guys get compliance so well. Guys with tactical gear and M$'s and MP5s are alot more menacing that regular patrol cops. |
I used to carry one in my big truck,if I was asked,I always said it was a compact tire thumper.BTW,pre 9-11,Delta gave a free ride to my asp in the carry-on luggage all the way to CA,and back to the Great State of Kentucky,didn't even know it was there in one of the side pockets.
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Yes, but only. I was once on a department that allowed the lead sap. Now that'll drop ya to your knees ! |
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The ASP baton is made out of either steel or aluminun depending on your asignment , ie. uniform patrol vs undercover or bike patrol. They come in various lengths from 16" to 31" also in several finishes to offer protection from salt air etc. As far as the strikes 3 primary strikes are taught 1) Weapon side 2) reaction side 3) straight These srikes are accompolished withe the baton either in the open or closed mode. Another strike taught is one made during an emergency opening, though not used often. The baton is not a one use tool as I have a two batons with over 100,000 strikes on them with no bends. I have an aluminum one with over 30,000 strikes that did develop a slight bend but with no functioning issues. As for the amount of power one can generate it is accompolished throughr the 7 principles of power taught in the training. |
What brand of baton? We carry ASP 26" batons (part #ASP-F26), and some of the guys bend theirs just playing around. What brand and model are you using? I'm tired of spending $62 each several times a year for replacements.z |
Are they bending them during closing or bending them hitting solid objects? The batons were designed for tissue or training bags with the occassional window during an emergency. I'm using a genuine standard ASP-F26 and F21 in steel. Both batons have been used so much in training that the bluing has worn off til they shine like chrome. |