[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Police Sobriety Checkpoints (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/9/2004 9:38:38 PM EDT
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I was driving home from work last night, at 2245 and noticed a bunch of blue lights ahead. Came over the hill and they had about a dozen cop cars and four lanes narrowed down to one. I drove through and the officers asked to have my license ready and to pull up to the car in front of me. The officer asked me if I had been drinking at all, naturally I said no. Then he asked me where I was coming from and where I was going. Anyway I just responded from work to a friends house. He handed me a memo explaining what they were doing and that it was 'to help make the community safer.' I would like to hear some opinions of what you all think of these checkpoints. Edited to add: This is by no means anti-cop in any way, I am actually very supportive of the police. |
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From the one's I've been involved in you have to have a set parameter like "every 8th car" and it's listed in our memo books. It's usually done at places where you can't back out of or turn once you see it, but you'll still have the guy that tries to kick it in reverse against the flow of traffic...dead giveaway perhaps? I hate them, it causes too much traffic. |
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Here in CA they used to have to post it such that anyone declining to go through had an out available and they couldn't use that as a reason to make a stop. They also publicize it in the newspaer that they will be doing it. In my city I think they only do it at one place so avoiding them is easy if you pay a little attention. I haven't seen the pre-posting on the last few so that may have changed, although there were several ways to go around at the last few I've seen. they run them occasionally on Imperial Highway a few blocks from my house. I usually go and take the killer bassets up for them to see. I see a few get let through that you know they want because they insist on trying to stop at a few places while half a dozen officers are waving them through because they don't fit in the random pattern (That is still required.) Much as I hate to get amused at these. OK OK I do, the amusing ones are the ones that get checked and then get moved off to get a confirmatory FST and in the process it is determined they don't have insurance or current registration. They get walking papers and the car gets towed for a 30 day holiday. Considering the last few accidents my family have been in have been caused by un-insured drivers I am more than happy to see them get clanged. In other words they don't bother me. Especially since just a few days ago my son missed by one signal cycle getting creamed by an inebriated driver about a block form the normal checkpoint location. He probably would have come through OK as he was in the truck, but the $$$ value on the truck wouldn't go too far. |
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This was actually the first checkpoint I have gone thought. Wow! Lucky you. Here in SC, there are weeks where I've suffered through half a dozen of them. Last week, I went through three of them in one day. You're lucky to not have to waste 20+ minutes each time to go through those random searches. One of the local cop's favorite places to do this is near my office, and it's hell on me when they do it because I'm the guy that schedules work. Everyone is late to work when they do that, and I have to scramble to call customers to let them know we're running late and to ask the previous shift guys to stay later. As usual, the hardest parts of my job are caused by the government, not by trying to make customers happy which really should be my job.z |
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These were a way of life in the Peoples Republic of NJ, where I grew up. They are a bullshit unconstitutional travesty. You are guilty until proven innocent. The only good thing about them is that they would tie up alot of police, so there would be fewer of them to encounter as we weaved our way back home along the backstreets. I feel the same way about the cameras on every light pole. If George Orwell rose from the dead, all he would say is "I told ya so" |
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Quoted: This was actually the first checkpoint I have gone thought. Wow! Lucky you. Here in SC, there are weeks where I've suffered through half a dozen of them. Last week, I went through three of them in one day. You're lucky to not have to waste 20+ minutes each time to go through those random searches. One of the local cop's favorite places to do this is near my office, and it's hell on me when they do it because I'm the guy that schedules work. Everyone is late to work when they do that, and I have to scramble to call customers to let them know we're running late and to ask the previous shift guys to stay later. As usual, the hardest parts of my job are caused by the government, not by trying to make customers happy which really should be my job.z Im in Augusta so I go into SC sometimes since its only a few milea and beer is cheaper, never had any problems there, but I dont go into SC unless I got a reason I dont like thier speed limit and they dont have any turn lights. |
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I can see a quick check to find out if you're obviously drunk, but to ask where you're going and where you're coming from? Of course they might be asking just to see if you say "Oh I'm just driving home from the bar I MEAN A FRIEND'S HOUSE!!" [south park] Do you have any weapons or explosives in the vehicle? Jimbo: Yes. I MEAN NO!!! [/south park] LOL |
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I understand the need but I don't like the checkpoints. I've even had to work a few. Unless I saw something suspicious I would NEVER ask someone were they were coming from or going to. To me that's akin to shouting, "Ver are your paperz!" Most of the time they are a total sham and done mostly for political reasons. They even announce where they're going to be for maximum publicity. DUI checkpoints....I mean. It is impossible to check every driver for warrants or a valid DL and keep from creating a traffic nightmare. The officers are looking for obvious signs of impairment....and admittedly some are looking for a knucklehead to try to run the checkpoint. Never try to run the checkpoint, that's just foolish. Ever notice how many officers there are in the path of your car while at a checkpoint? With numerous cruiser's blue lights flashing and well lit, uniformed officers giving orders to stop, a person who runs a checkpoint is going to have a bad night. The ten drunks behind him will be happy since they will passed unnoticed while saying things like, "Goddamn.. I wonder what that guy did" or "Holy shit, that's gonna leave a mark". Don't assume it's a DUI checkpoint. It may be that they are looking for someone who just kidnapped a child or murdered someone. Running it may just get you greenlit. |
| I've never done one, and am generally opposed the them. Locally, they broadcast the location of the checkpoint days in advance, both in print media and broadcast media. Then there are signs warning drivers of tha checkpoint ahead, with escape routes left. Anyone who still drives through has chosen to participate, or was too drunk for the last several days to notice. |
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I don't like them. However, if the location was publicized and there are escape routes that won't cause you to get chased for probable cause, I can live with that. This business of being asked where you are going and where you coming from is just plain Gestapo-like, though. |
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Except in a case where they are looking for a specific criminal (such as in the DC area shootings) I am against them. As a law-abiding citizen I interpret being stopped by the police as meaning that I am suspected of some sort of criminal activity (such as DUI, but I quit drinking in '86!). My position is that if therre is no reason to suspect me of criminal activity, there is no reason to interfere with my free travel. At such a stop [i]I[/i] bear the burden of proof, rather than the state, in regard to the legitimacy of my actions. Sure, there are those who say, "If it stops just [i]one[/i] drunk driver..." How much liberty are you willing to surrender for supposed security? Those are inversely proportional. I don't blame the cops at the checkpoints. The decisions on these checkpoints are made above their level. So, if I pull up to one, roll down my window, and politely say, "Good evening, officer. Am I suspected of some sort of criminal activity?", what do you think would happen? As a free citizen, I think that's a legitimate question. |
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Quoted: So, if I pull up to one, roll down my window, and politely say, "Good evening, officer. Am I suspected of some sort of criminal activity?", what do you think would happen? As a free citizen, I think that's a legitimate question. It is a legitimate question and since you can formulate and articulate that question you are probably not driving drunk. I wouldn't be offended if asked that and would respond by telling why we were stopping cars and politely ask to see the person's DL, registration and proof of insurance. Even though I am "asking", in Florida a driver must provide these to a LEO if operating a vehicle. Chances are greater than not that I wouldn't even run these since traffic is already backed up. Now if the guy gives me attitude he is getting everything checked and if necessary, the appropriate citations. Edited to add that its all in how you ask such such a question. If a person rolls up and says WTF are you stopping me for, I'm not a criminal. Don't you have something better to do? They should be prepared for a total DL/NCIC check, vehicle safety inspection, K9 search, and sobriety check. Usually their next question ends up being, What's my bond gonna be?" |
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Quoted: Now if the guy gives me attitude he is getting everything checked and if necessary, the appropriate citations. From Webster's: [b]Vehicle[/b]: A device, as a piece of mechanized equipment, for transporting goods or passengers. [b]Road[/b]: An open, general public way for moving vehicles, persons, or goods. ___________ So, we have a legally manufactured automobile, legally sold to a buyer, who legally drives it on a road specifically made for said automobiles and we're not supposed to be angry at being stopped? For simply driving? |
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Quoted: Now if the guy gives me attitude he is getting everything checked and if necessary, the appropriate citations. Edited to add that its all in how you ask such such a question. If a person rolls up and says WTF are you stopping me for, I'm not a criminal. Don't you have something better to do? They should be prepared for a total DL/NCIC check, vehicle safety inspection, K9 search, and sobriety check. Usually their next question ends up being, What's my bond gonna be?" That's the sort of law enforcement techniques that we've all come to know and expect. Say anything about your rights, wind up getting 'Rodney King'ed' on the side of the Interstate! [:D] Not exactly as the Founding Fathers foresaw it, but, hell, they'd be too pizzed off by all the other stuff to dwell on this! Eric The(BegiiningToSeeAPattern)Hun[>]:)] |
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Quoted: Now if the guy gives me attitude he is getting everything checked and if necessary, the appropriate citations. Gee if that ain't a power trip! Kiss my ass and you can go. Question my authority and I am going to detain you and get the microscope out looking for a violation. This is so VERY typical of cops. |
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Interesting question. I've never seen one here in AZ. On one hand, if it reduces drunks on the road I'm all for it. Provided it is quick and unintrusive. You pull up. If your eyes are clear, and you don't slur or smell of booze, on your way no blood no foul. But it does feel a bit like "ver are zee papers". Any cops here that have worked one of these? Do you get many drunks this way? I know in my small town the deputies hang near the two main bars after 10 PM. Heck, thats were all the action is. And when you leave, they watch you. I'm only 2 miles from home there and all back road. I still won't have more than 1 drink there. Not worth a DUI charge. Probably makes other people think too. Its a good thing. |
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Quoted: Then he asked me where I was coming from and where I was going. Are we compelled by law to tell the officer where we were and where we are going or can we just say none of you business? It was my understanding that we only had to provide them with our license, registration and proof of insurance. Tom |
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Quoted: I know in my small town the deputies hang near the two main bars after 10 PM. Heck, thats were all the action is. And when you leave, they watch you. I'm only 2 miles from home there and all back road. I still won't have more than 1 drink there. Not worth a DUI charge. Probably makes other people think too. Its a good thing. So you would say profiling works right? |
| Personally, I think they are BS. I've been lucky enough not to get stopped, but I think I would be pissed when they asked me where I was going. WTF business of theirs is it? Of course, if you refused to answer the question, you would probably be held and searched. [rolleyes] |
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Check points, of ANY kind, are ILLEGAL, in the Great State of Oregon, where the rights of the people to bear arms, and change the govt., by any means necessary, are enshrined in the Constitution!! We have "Shall issue" CCW, and Class III. We're also up to our eyeballs with kali's moving in!!! Mostly communists!!! [shock] |
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Quoted: Personally, I think they are BS. I've been lucky enough not to get stopped, but I think I would be pissed when they asked me where I was going. WTF business of theirs is it? Of course, if you refused to answer the question, you would probably be held and searched. [rolleyes] You could always say "I'm going straight home to write my congressman and the mayor" [;)] Of course that might earn you that harassment that Grivo_Mak spoke of. |
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Some of you guys make me laugh. The part of my posts that agree with the ridiculousness of some of the checkpoints particularly the DUI flavor, goes unnoticed. I firmly believe a person has every right to question why they are being stopped. They do NOT have the right to become verbally abusive or threatening. Good officers know how to communicate with reasonble people and also with the belligerent and unreasonable. I am confident that most people, if not all, who have posted in this thread are reasonable, law abiding citizens. However the officer(s) you encounter don't know you and are basing their responses upon YOUR behavior. Acting crazy like you are going to run a checkpoint that has officers and possibly citizens in the roadway doesn't benefit anyone. Imagine yourselves as the officer standing in the cold doing something you believe to be total bullshit at night no less and dealing with total strangers. It might be the local preacher in the next car or a paranoid meth head with a gun. If you are stopped and wish to complain please call the chief, sheriff, governer or your local chapter of MADD,who are the ones pushing for DUI checkpoints anyway, and complain but don't give the officer on the road a bunch of shit. Ok... so who else wants this shitty job? (crickets chirping) I thought so. |
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Quoted: [url]www.scorerealm.ca/moseisley.jpg[/url] You don't need to see his identification. These aren't the 'droids you're looking for. Go about your business. Move along. Move along. That pic is from the gussied-up Special Edition Star Wars. That movie wasn't worth a two-pound toilet dolphin. The original is one of the best movies of all time. |
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Quoted: So you would say profiling works right? I'm not sure where you got that from my post. However, I would be against profiling based on type of car, age of driver, race, sex, etc. I don't consider it profiling if a deputy sits within sight of a busy bar, and sees a customer leave, staggering, to their car. They lay rubber leaving and almost sideswipe a car leaving the lot. I call that a good time to pull over the car, not profiling. If they simply pull over a customer that leaves the bar without any noticeable signs of drinking, then it might be profiling. Dunno. |
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Quoted: Why not simply assume that everyone you meet is just as reasonable and law-abiding as the folks of this Board? Eric The(Simple)Hun[>]:)] I truely wish we could. Unfortunately if an officer did this he would soon end up in a box. There are too many evil and treacherous people walking the Earth. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Why not simply assume that everyone you meet is just as reasonable and law-abiding as the folks of this Board? Eric The(Simple)Hun[>]:)] I truely wish we could. Unfortunately if an officer did this he would soon end up in a box. There are too many evil and treacherous people walking the Earth. I hope you are not suggesting that cops should then treat everybody as potential criminals... |
| It hasn't happened to me yet, even though they do it frequently in my county. It better never happen either. Stopping vehicles at random is wrong for this purpose. In a lot of states, courts have apparently upheld these as lawful if the locations are published in the local media beforehand, which is sad. |
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Quoted: I hope you are not suggesting that cops should then treat everybody as potential criminals... Absolutely not my friend. There's nothing wrong with being extremely careful though. I've always tried to be polite and friendly but you just can't sometimes. There are people out there who will kill you if given half a chance. Its these people I'm watching out for. Nearly everything an officer does can go to shit instantly so he must be prepared. It's not that he dislikes you or thinks he's better than you, it's just that he doesn't know you. I wish we could nice to everyone but the cemeteries are full of Officer Friendlys. My dept repeatedly(to the point I complained and refuse to watch again) showed a dashcam video taken from a Georgia deputy's car. The bad guy repeatedly disobeys commands and is making threatening remarks to the officer. The deputy remained polite and continued to call him sir even as the suspect is seen loading an M1 Carbine. This continues even while he is being shot and killed by the suspect. I will never forget what too much politeness got that poor deputy. If you guys could see all the actual footage we see you would easily understand. |
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Quoted: Why not simply assume that everyone you meet is just as reasonable and law-abiding as the folks of this Board? Eric The(Simple)Hun[>]:)] Reasonable, yeah sure they are. law-abiding, well most. Except most don't know the law from a hole in the wall. If you made that assumption you'ld be shooting every third driver in legal self defense. |
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Quoted: Absolutely not my friend. Thank you for your cordiality. There's nothing wrong with being extremely careful though. Agreed. Nearly everything an officer does can go to shit instantly so he must be prepared. It's not that he dislikes you or thinks he's better than you, it's just that he doesn't know you. The same can be said in reverse, too, my internet friend. I wish we could nice to everyone but the cemeteries are full of Officer Friendlys. They are full of innocent people who died at the hands of the police, too. Practically every week there's another thread here describing someone who was killed/maimed by the police/FBI/ATF...and it turned out the cops had the wrong person. If you guys could see all the actual footage we see you would easily understand. "Understanding" goes both ways, my internet friend. |
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Quoted: Ok... so who else wants this shitty job? (crickets chirping) I thought so. Hmmm.....every cop on this board when backed into a corner about their "SHITTY JOB" maintains its the best job ever. So what is it? shitty or the best? Don't tell me its both because EVERY job is both. Funny how when it fits their need its the best then all of a sudden its shitty. Nobody asked you to do it. If you don't like it get another job or if you are not qualified for some other employment suck it up. Don't come here looking for sympathy or worship. [red][Jeff Spicoli][/red]Make up your mind dude, is he gonna shit or is he gonna kill us[red][/Jeff Spicoli][/red] |
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Quoted: So what is it? shitty or the best? I stopped thinking it was the best years ago. For me its on the shitty side of the spectrum. Don't come here looking for sympathy or worship. Never asked for either. I was trying to be helpful but some people just want to argue. So be it. I understand why the many other LEO's here don't post in threads such as these. Perhaps my old partner was right. He maintains that some people are just too chicken shit to do this job themselves so they perpetually complain and others are too smart to even want to. This thread like any other LEO question thread has deteriorated. Who has the picture of that retarded kid running? Peace out. |
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Quoted: Some of you guys make me laugh. The part of my posts that agree with the ridiculousness of some of the checkpoints particularly the DUI flavor, goes unnoticed. I firmly believe a person has every right to question why they are being stopped. They do NOT have the right to become verbally abusive or threatening. Good officers know how to communicate with reasonble people and also with the belligerent and unreasonable. I am confident that most people, if not all, who have posted in this thread are reasonable, law abiding citizens. However the officer(s) you encounter don't know you and are basing their responses upon YOUR behavior. Acting crazy like you are going to run a checkpoint that has officers and possibly citizens in the roadway doesn't benefit anyone. Imagine yourselves as the officer standing in the cold doing something you believe to be total bullshit at night no less and dealing with total strangers. It might be the local preacher in the next car or a paranoid meth head with a gun. If you are stopped and wish to complain please call the chief, sheriff, governer or your local chapter of MADD,who are the ones pushing for DUI checkpoints anyway, and complain but don't give the officer on the road a bunch of shit. Ok... so who else wants this shitty job? (crickets chirping) I thought so. As I'm sure people who've been on the boards for a while (since the old board) know, I have NOTHING against the police, and I try very hard to not unecessarily generalize. What I reacted to was your statement that you would go out of your way to hassle people who said something to the effect of "WTF are you stopping me, I'm not a criminal, don't you have anything better to do?" You said that such people "... should be prepared for a total DL/NCIC check, vehicle safety inspection, K9 search, and sobriety check" - I would define that as hassle or harassment, if it is based on NOTHING other than the person giving you attitude (your words, again). I got no problem with you giving a person the full treatment if you have reason to suspect something, if you see something suspicious in the car, or smell alcohol, or notice slurred speech - but to put a guy through the wringer because he is annoyed at being stopped when he has done nothing wrong - that seems very unfair to me. If a person is being abusive or threatening, either write them a ticket for that, or arrest them (if those are crimes)! But don't take it into your own hands to "punish" people by deliberately wasting their time with unecessary inspections for a 1st-amendement protected attitude that you don't like. I hope nobody takes this as cop-bashing or general flaming. This is intended to be a specific reaction to how Grivo_Mak describes his conduct, nothing more. |
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Quoted: ... Imagine yourselves as the officer standing in the cold doing something you believe to be total bullshit .... That's where we differ- why the hell would you be doing something you don't believe in??? So I guess you don't mind violating peoples' rights- as long as you're just doing what you're told to do...... Typical |