Posted: 11/29/2005 7:20:30 PM EDT
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Had an interesting conversation recently about how police respond to calls for service. Although many LEO's know this others are very surprised to find out for what type of calls we go "lights and siren" to. What would be your answer to the following scenarios: Bank Hold-up alarm Panic alarm at a residential home Missing 7 year old Vehicle accident involving three to four vehicles Fight in progress at a bar involving 9-10 people hit-and-run accident with a witness following the suspect vehicle on a cell phone with dispatch appearent dead body floating in a canal shoplifting in progress at retail store domestic disturbance in progress (sounds violent per the neighbor that called in) shots fired in the area (called in by at least two neighbors) WOuld you believe that these are all "normal run" response calls? Every now and then some rook will get on the radio and advise they are enroute "lights and siren" and the Sergeant will promptly get on the radio and "shut them down" to normal response. In fact, most would think that the police would also pursue for alot of things we don't. How about stolen vehicle? Nope Occipied burglary and suspect leaves in car? Nope Theft? Grand Theft? Nope Drug deal? Nope Strong arm robbery no weapon involved? Nope WHY? you might ask. Because people love to sue the pants off Police for anything. Therefor most admins are afraid to do anything that might produce a lawsuit. So what do most cops do? Well, alot of us "drive a little faster" and sometimes use our lights to "break an intersection" then shut it back down to normal run. My aquiantance always figured this for just the police speeding around and not feeling like waiting at intersections. Well, I'm sure that might happen in some places. But I also bet a good majority of cops you see "speeding" are actually going somewhere. Hell, some jurisdictions don't even respond to calls unless it's a felony in progress. Of course, in podunk city, USA there are cops that respond "lights and siren" to aunt mable's cat in the tree. Different towns, different way of doing business. |
Trust me, there are alot of calls we'd like to go lights and siren to, but per policy we are not allowed. So like I said, we will use our discretion and for certain calls we speed. |
Priority 2 |
What is your definition of Priority 2? Do you break a unit from what your doing to go, just not lights and siren? Priority 1 would be many units for us, lights and siren. Priority 2 would be an availble unit, not necessarily the zone car the call is in (if he's tied up) Priority 3 would be when that zone car get's back in service and gets to it. But I'm sure like you, you get that "feeling" every now and then a go lights and siren to a call you may not normally go to like that. |
Being a non LEO myself, I've found this post informative. Since I never visit the LEO forum, I am glad it is here othewise I'd never see it. |
Then why do I NEVER see LEO's driving the speed limit? They do not even slow down in posted school zones.
Good try. What about when not in uniform, with their significant other/family on board. |
Run hot to officer in trouble, pursuit(which you can't chase anymore hardly) so scratch that. HMMM can't really come up. With anything. Maybe a good active shooter.. Yes that'll be about it. If you see a patrol car comming up behind you quickly. Please pull to the right instead of just slowing down to keep pace with the car in the other lane. 90 % of the time we are trying to go from point a to point b because dispatch sent us. Most calls end up being nothing However our response time can be improved with the publics help.. It's always appreciated. It's hard to say thanks when someone pulls to the right lane and lets you get on down the road. I usually give a quick nod or wave because I'm trying to listen to the radio for updates and trying to formulate a response. But again it's one of the easiest things the public can do to help. It's not as much fun because you don't get to play with the lights and siren as much any more. Maybe I should have been a fireman. They run hot everywhere.  Oh and the other 10% is when we are trying to get to that fresh pot of dunkin donuts coffee.(right) |
In our city we run a volunteer fire deptartment and all of the ems/fire runs have an officer dispatched as a first responder, they get to run code. Although it is alot of fun to play with two sirens and an air horn. |
When I speed, I am also going somewhere. On the way home from work yesterday on RT 128 south, I fallowed a cop doing 75 in a 55. We were traveling with the flow of traffic, but it is still illegal to speed so please explain. |
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IMHO The thread starter is just trying to troll a litlle bit. He must know that there will be negative responses to LEO speeding excuses. This is a pointless thread, only here to troll, hence my previous post suggesting it be moved to the LEO Forum. PS. I don't have a dog anymore, so I guess my cat is fair game now. |
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I'm kind of curious how police departments have been sued in the past as a result of running lights and sirens. If you need to get somewhere in a hurry, I'd rather see the red and blinkies. Otherwise, it just looks like a cop speeding for no particular reason - right or wrong. It's pretty well known that people LOVE to point out hypocrytical police officers skirting the law. Violating traffic laws (or at least appearing to) without running the lights and siren seems like it would piss off John Q Public more than running hot a little more often. |
I don't have anything handy for LE. But on the EMS side (which runs code by the same legal authority) there are a couple of cites in this article. It is also important to know this: As defined by the U.S. Department of Transportation Emergency Vehicle Operator's Course, a true emergency is any situation in which there is a high probability of death or significant injury to an individual or group of individuals or a significant loss of property, which can be reduced by the actions of an emergency service. |
By reducing their liability, they reduce the amount of money that you, the taxpayer, have to pay out in settlements. |
[sarcasm] We dont need guns the Police will protect us, when they eventually get there...You know...take their time to reduce liability  I feel safer |
I would think that for liability reasons, going lights and sirens would be prefered. |
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Some of those do surprise me, but others don't. I have always been told that the purdy lights have the tendancy to actually cause an accident because people fixate on them and lose concentration on everything else going on around. They want to slam on the brakes and that creates more of a hazard then the original call, so lights and sirens are used only as a last resort. Of course, that's only what I've heard. But it does seem to jive with some of the calls you said do not warrant the full "hot" response. Ignore the trolls, bro. Some people don't want to be educated - it just gives them too much reality and then they can't deny that they just might be incorrect from time to time. Me? I'd rather be educated on something I don't necessarally agree with than ignorant in a matter I have a strong opinion on. |
I am not sure what your point is beside that the police don't always run their lights and sirens when going to a call. Other then that..................
So let me get this right.... You pull up in your police car behind another car on the freeway. You think they are running fast, so call in the tag and it comes back stolen. They take off running from you and you don't pursue?
So you are driving around in a residential neighborhood and see a burglary, with the burglar getting into a car and leaving. You don't pursue?
You are patrolling a residential neighborhood in your car and see someone in a truck sell a 50 pound bale of marijuana. They drive off. You don't pursue?
So basically the police aren't going to do anything to arrest offendors who run? |
Trust me, it's very frustrating. We'll pursue alright, for a couple of blocks. When the offender starts speeding and driving crazy the sergeant will always get on and "break it off". Most policies dictate that you must not only break it off, but must either make your first right or completely turn around. Yes, the bad guys know this. Very frustrating. This post was not to start trolling. It really is surprising to alot of people that we don't, or more accurately can't, run like we would want to. For the one that asked, look into the orginal case where two teenage girls (who had their radio so loud they couldn't hear 30+ cars in pursuit of a felon) drove into the pursuit in an intersection and were killed. Many more have happened since then. Some have been pointless deaths caused by bad pursuit driving, many more have been pointless deaths caused by an asshole comminting a felony who shouldn't be breathing oxygen to begin with. |
Sheep |
For ambulances (the only stat I could find with a quick look) the accident rate is doubled while driving code. The options are code 3 and if you hurt someone along the way you will end up paying out a settlement or make your best time there and if somebody actually was being robbed, well there's case law that says your not liable. |
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Priority 1: Two units, proceed immediately with lights and sirens. Priority 2: Two units, proceed immediately, no lights and sirens, obey all traffic laws. Priority 3: One unit, proceed when available. |