[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Price Gouging (Page 1 of 7)
Posted: 8/30/2011 2:49:09 PM EDT
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Does it exist?
Poll inbound. ETA: Beat all the IBTP nerds ETA: Share your reasoning 
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Quoted:
Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. It doesn't exist. A product will sell for what the market will bare. Period. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. It doesn't exist. A product will sell for what the market will bare. Period. |
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Of course it does. It's just a figure of speech, the same as any other, and it's not a fake phenomenon or anything. It's basically a sharp raise in the price of goods and services that were previously affordable due to the massive increase of demand or limited supply of that good/service. This spike in price is often higher than most can or will spend; causing resentment towards the seller.
The question really should be: "is price gouging wrong?" |
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Quoted:
Of course it does. It's just a figure of speech, the same as any other, and it's not a fake phenomenon or anything. It's basically a sharp raise in the price of goods and services that were previously affordable due to the massive increase of demand or limited supply of that good/service. This spike in price is often higher than most can or will spend; causing resentment towards the seller. The question really should be: "is price gouging wrong?" Well put. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png nope, can't |
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Quoted:
Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. Exactly, you remember who screwed you over and don't reward them. |
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Quoted: Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png this |
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Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. Exactly, you remember who screwed you over and don't reward them. if someone raises their prices due to increased demand (or any other reason), how does that 'screw you over'? |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. Can you elaborate? I see a high and low quantity indicated on the graph. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Its like there, man, you just can't see it....but, you konw, if you look hard enough at that graph, you can feel it, man.... |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. They are a PERFECT representation of potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. |
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I guess it's a matter of definition. Under the popular definition, it definitely does not exist and the belief that it does is actually harmful to people.
I would argue that REAL price gouging is when competition is deliberately limited in order to extract above market outcomes. I could call out a couple specific groups who are engaged in this behavior but I don't feel getting into it today. Some guy recognizing a temporary scarcity of a certain product and charging accordingly is NOT price gouging. He's pricing according to the market as it stands at that point in time. Whether he makes a windfall is irrelevant. What's relevant is that his higher pricing ensures the availability of said product and encourages further supply to move in and fill the void. |
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Quoted:
Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png You can't put it on that graph because it doesn't account for purchasing ability. If you have always been priced out of something like a Ferrari, you don't call it gouging. But when something that was affordable to you previously becomes drastically out of your price range, that's when most buyers feel "gouged." It isn't any different that the concept of being "ripped off" when you buy something for higher than market value and you didn't do your homework and you realize someone got the better of you. It is INTANGIBLE. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. Wow. The meaning of that graph flew over your head so fast it dislodged your hair follicles. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png You can't put it on that graph because it doesn't account for purchasing ability. If you have always been priced out of something like a Ferrari, you don't call it gouging. But when something that was affordable to you previously becomes drastically out of your price range, that's when most buyers feel "gouged." It isn't any different that the concept of being "ripped off" when you buy something for higher than market value and you didn't do your homework and you realize someone got the better of you. It is INTANGIBLE. you nailed it when you said it's a 'feeling' |
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Quoted: Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png is it here? –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– *  edit: sorry, your graph was too small 
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Not in the way people using the term imagine it does –– as a "get rich off the backs of the needy" scam.
Raising prices substantially for important things during or in anticipation of an emergency ensures that the supply remains available for people who actually need the stuff. Sure, some people will get priced out of the market, but most will just cut back to buying how much they need rather than how much they want. Not raising prices during such situations would not only be bad business in general, but it also facilitates "hoarding" which reduces the supply available to those actually in need. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png You can't put it on that graph because it doesn't account for purchasing ability. If you have always been priced out of something like a Ferrari, you don't call it gouging. But when something that was affordable to you previously becomes drastically out of your price range, that's when most buyers feel "gouged." It isn't any different that the concept of being "ripped off" when you buy something for higher than market value and you didn't do your homework and you realize someone got the better of you. It is INTANGIBLE. Edit: nevermind, I think I see what you're getting at. |
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Quoted:
I guess it's a matter of definition. Under the popular definition, it definitely does not exist and the belief that it does is actually harmful to people. I would argue that REAL price gouging is when competition is deliberately limited in order to extract above market outcomes. I could call out a couple specific groups who are engaged in this behavior but I don't feel getting into it today. Some guy recognizing a temporary scarcity of a certain product and charging accordingly is NOT price gouging. He's pricing according to the market as it stands at that point in time. Whether he makes a windfall is irrelevant. What's relevant is that his higher pricing ensures the availability of said product and encourages further supply to move in and fill the void. doesn't that have more to do with monopolies? |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. Of course they are. The only thing that changes is the slope of the two curves. The existence of the curves however is perpetual. Even after an emergency there is going to be a demand curve ranging from "MUST HAVE" to "JUST WANT" to "SORTA WANT" to "WELL IF IT'S THAT CHEAP, I'LL TAKE ALL YA GOT". What way can you realistically prioritize those levels of need other than price? You don't think that there are people out there who would take what they need and then some if the price was too cheap? If you found 5.56mm (or whatever you shoot) on the shelf for $0.10 a round during the gun buying panic would you buy just what you needed for shooting that weekend or would you stack that shit deep knowing it wouldn't last long at that price? This stuff is intuitive if you really break it down. |
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Quoted:
I guess it's a matter of definition. Under the popular definition, it definitely does not exist and the belief that it does is actually harmful to people. I would argue that REAL price gouging is when competition is deliberately limited in order to extract above market outcomes. I could call out a couple specific groups who are engaged in this behavior but I don't feel getting into it today. Some guy recognizing a temporary scarcity of a certain product and charging accordingly is NOT price gouging. He's pricing according to the market as it stands at that point in time. Whether he makes a windfall is irrelevant. What's relevant is that his higher pricing ensures the availability of said product and encourages further supply to move in and fill the void. doesn't that have more to do with monopolies? Price fixing is another thread 
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Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. Exactly, you remember who screwed you over and don't reward them.  Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Quoted: Of course it exists. The proper reaction isn't government intervention, the proper reaction is for people to avoid this business once the shortage has passed. That is how the free market should work. 1st post fail ...... as well as any subsequent post giving even remote aquiesence to this Marxist term. 
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Quoted: Not in the way people using the term imagine it does –– as a "get rich off the backs of the needy" scam. Raising prices substantially for important things during or in anticipation of an emergency ensures that the supply remains available for people who actually need the stuff. Sure, some people will get priced out of the market, but most will just cut back to buying how much they need rather than how much they want. Not raising prices during such situations would not only be bad business in general, but it also facilitates "hoarding" which reduces the supply available to those actually in need. This guy gets it. If they didn't raise prices, people would hoard stuff and there would be NO supply for other people who need the goods. Imagine if they didn't raise the prices of potable water enough during an emergency and some guy brings in a tanker truck and fills it up taking every last drop...now nobody else can get clean water no matter how much they were willing to pay... |
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There sure was a lot of butt-hurt here when Cheaper Than Dirt raised prices during the fake "panic" of 08-09.
To me prices are what the traffic will bear. I did not feel a bit guility gettig shed of a couple of WASRs for $700.00 each at the height of the "panic". You snooze you lose. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. Can you elaborate? I see a high and low quantity indicated on the graph. In a disaster zone that supplies cannot reach easily, the supply curve would be almost vertical. Also, the demand for drinking water is way less elastic than that. |
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Poll fail. The question being asked is too unclear to yield any real results. I know what you meant but technically "price gouging" does exist because it has been legally defined. Even people who don't believe "price gouging" is wrong will still vote yes because it is in the books. |
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Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png You can't put it on that graph because it doesn't account for purchasing ability. If you have always been priced out of something like a Ferrari, you don't call it gouging. But when something that was affordable to you previously becomes drastically out of your price range, that's when most buyers feel "gouged." It isn't any different that the concept of being "ripped off" when you buy something for higher than market value and you didn't do your homework and you realize someone got the better of you. It is INTANGIBLE. you nailed it when you said it's a 'feeling' Sorta. Like being "offended" or "impressed", they are human concepts that can't be measured on a graph. |
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Quoted:
Not in the way people using the term imagine it does –– as a "get rich off the backs of the needy" scam. Raising prices substantially for important things during or in anticipation of an emergency ensures that the supply remains available for people who actually need the stuff. Sure, some people will get priced out of the market, but most will just cut back to buying how much they need rather than how much they want. Not raising prices during such situations would not only be bad business in general, but it also facilitates "hoarding" which reduces the supply available to those actually in need. We have a winner. What's amazing about these threads is that someone like yourself articulates immutable reality so well yet we'll still have pages and pages of people after your post talking about how greedy and immoral it is to raise prices in these situations. Most will ignore what you said and the few that try debate you will respond in a way that indicates they have no fucking clue what you were talking about. Such is life. 
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Quoted:
Of course it does. It's just a figure of speech, the same as any other, and it's not a fake phenomenon or anything. It's basically a sharp raise in the price of goods and services that were previously affordable due to the massive increase of demand or limited supply of that good/service. or the result of an election. This spike in price is often higher than most can or will spend; causing resentment towards the seller. The question really should be: "is price gouging wrong?" |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Can someone indicate on the graph where price gouging is located? http://stephansmithfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Supply-and-Demand-Graph.png Those curves are not very good representations of, say, potable water during the aftermath of a hurricane. Can you elaborate? I see a high and low quantity indicated on the graph. In a disaster zone that supplies cannot reach easily, the supply curve would be almost vertical. Also, the demand for drinking water is way less elastic than that. Wouldn't it be less of a change to the curve and more of an upward shift? At a certain price, outside suppliers would enter the market and the curve would begin from there.  ETA: What I mean is when the profit is high enough to justify unconventional means of distribution. |
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Quoted:
There sure was a lot of butt-hurt here when Cheaper Than Dirt raised prices during the fake "panic" of 08-09. To me prices are what the traffic will bear. I did not feel a bit guilty getting shed of a couple of WASRs for $700.00 each at the height of the "panic". You snooze you lose. To carry the CTD example a bit farther: CTD still had ammo available for sale if somebody absolutely needed some where most other suppliers (who didn't raise their prices) were sold out and back ordered for months. I needed some .380 ammo at the time and was damn glad I could find some for sale even though it was selling for a lot more than it had just a few months before. |