Posted: 7/22/2011 11:25:30 AM EDT
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I want to get better/stronger at pull-ups and be able to do a muscle up soon..
I can max out at around 10 dead hang pull-ups. But can do 20-30 Kipping pull-ups. What would I be better off doing more kipping or less dead hangs?? Thanks |
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For strength, do dead hangs.
I know Marines doing 35+ dead hangs on this program: http://www.chicagomarineofficer.com/Downloads/PT/thearmstrongworkout.pdf |
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Pullups are one of my best exercises. I can do 50+ kipping pullups in one set, and 25 or so completely 100% strict deadhangs, and I think I hit a 120# weighted pullup. I say this not to brag, but to let you know that I feel like I have some insight on this. The quick answer to your question is that you need to do both + weighted pullups. Kipping is all about endurance, grip (once you get into the higher numbers) and technique. If you can get a good butterfly kip going you can just keep going and going. That being said you also need to be doing deadhangs and weighted to build strength. As far as muscle ups, with your numbers at where you are now, you ARE strong enough to do muscle ups...hell, at 1 pullup and 1 dip you're technically strong enough to get a MU...it's all about technique. Most people do kipping MU's so that's also a point in favor of kipping pullups...although there's something pretty cool about being able to do a strict MU...so again, you should be doing BOTH! Good luck. |
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Quoted: For strength, do dead hangs. I know Marines doing 35+ dead hangs on this program: http://www.chicagomarineofficer.com/Downloads/PT/thearmstrongworkout.pdf To get his muscle up though he needs to be doing kipping. OP- you a crossfitter? |
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Quoted: Quoted: To get his muscle up though he needs to be doing kipping. I disagree. Kipping is a means to an end, more about gaming and time than anything else. If he works on dead hangs and builds his raw strength the muscle up will come just as easily. Very very few people will be able to get a muscle up right off the bat without kipping. Kipping is an important prerequisite for the vast majority of people. I've known MANY people with much more upper body strength than me who could not even get close to getting ONE muscle up, yet I can do an unbroken set of 10 or so. Why is that? Technique. Some people can do a strict muscle up without ever having kipped (I was one) but those people are few and far between. I go to and help out at a Crossfit gym with 100+ members and we just went through regionals and one other local comp, so I've seen quite a few people attempt to and work towards getting their muscle ups. 90% need to get their kip down before a MU.
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Quoted: Kipping makes you better at kipping, that's about it. Dead hangs are still the standard for a reason. By all means if he's looking to post good times then kip, otherwise avoid them. Lol. Standard for what? The Marines? Sure, but if I'm not taking a PFT I don't give a shit. If I'm trying to complete a workout as fast as possible then I'm going to kip. Kipping also helps with deadhangs. I can do nothing but kipping pullups and STILL get 20 deadhangs on my PFT, I know because I've done it and seen others do it too. If you're trying to progress to a muscle up then kipping is the way to go (with deadhangs as accessory work for strength) as I explained above, kipping is a prerequisite for the vast majority of people before they get a muscle up. Here's a question, were you able to get your first muscle up without a kip?
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If I'm trying to complete a workout as fast as possible then I'm going to kip. That's exactly what I said earlier. Kipping is about gaming and time. If he's not playing 3-2-1-GO!, then he shouldn't care how fast he's knocking 'em out. Stick with strict form, and concentrate on dead hangs. |
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Quoted: Quoted: If I'm trying to complete a workout as fast as possible then I'm going to kip. That's exactly what I said earlier. Kipping is about gaming and time. If he's not playing 3-2-1-GO!, then he shouldn't care how fast he's knocking 'em out. Stick with strict form, and concentrate on dead hangs. Unless he's trying to get a muscle up then he needs to work on his kip as well as deadhangs. Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip?
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For strength, do dead hangs. I know Marines doing 35+ dead hangs on this program: http://www.chicagomarineofficer.com/Downloads/PT/thearmstrongworkout.pdf To get his muscle up though he needs to be doing kipping. OP- you a crossfitter? Yes I have been a crossfitter for about 4 months now.. |
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For strength, do dead hangs. I know Marines doing 35+ dead hangs on this program: http://www.chicagomarineofficer.com/Downloads/PT/thearmstrongworkout.pdf To get his muscle up though he needs to be doing kipping. OP- you a crossfitter? Yes I have been a crossfitter for about 4 months now.. Cool, been at it for 3 1/2 years let me know if you got questions... Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Looks tough, I'm going to have to try it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAk96ARN1uY&NR=1
...and fuck this shit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g19Q65g_3c |
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Agree with ROG. He should do deadhangs, kipping, weighted and be changing his grips. Also be doing plenty of dips. I don't Kip, but only because I don't have a bar that can handle it and I don't think my left shoulder can handle it, it's dislocated probably a few hundred times in the last 15 years... A few times while doing pullups.
While doing weighted and deadhangs (while training for a max set) I've been able to max out at 25+ while weighing 215lbs. Haven't been able to try a muscleup due to no place to do them. But I'm building a slab in the back that will have some rings. |
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Pullups are one of my best exercises. I can do 50+ kipping pullups in one set, and 25 or so completely 100% strict deadhangs, and I think I hit a 120# weighted pullup. I say this not to brag, but to let you know that I feel like I have some insight on this.
The quick answer to your question is that you need to do both + weighted pullups. Kipping is all about endurance, grip (once you get into the higher numbers) and technique. If you can get a good butterfly kip going you can just keep going and going. That being said you also need to be doing deadhangs and weighted to build strength. As far as muscle ups, with your numbers at where you are now, you ARE strong enough to do muscle ups...hell, at 1 pullup and 1 dip you're technically strong enough to get a MU...it's all about technique.
Most people do kipping MU's so that's also a point in favor of kipping pullups...although there's something pretty cool about being able to do a strict MU...so again, you should be doing BOTH! Good luck. +1. op I was doing my first muscle up after nearly 2 months of crossfit, I was just at your numbers for deadhang and kipping pullups. 3/4 of my muscleup is a kip |
I tried kipping the other day. I completely failed. It definitely takes rhythm which I don't have.  A muscle up was completely out of the question though I tried a few times. I stopped when I hurt my shoulder.  Nothing major but I knew I was out of my league. Consider this a tag. I need to look into this crossfit thing too. 
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I have said this before: Go to a local agricultural supply store and buy a couple of five foot sections of the thickest chain they have. Like as thick as your wrist. Get a couple of snap links and wrap the chain around your waist. The chains I have weigh between 10-12 pounds each. Superset weighted dips with the weighted pull ups (good form). Your pull up count will rise. I am 43 and can do 20+ easily with minimal swing. 4073 |
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...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No kipping needed... http://www.youtube.com/user/stroeiulian04#p/u/10/UyyAbAJHz5Q 
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...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No kipping needed... http://www.youtube.com/user/stroeiulian04#p/u/10/UyyAbAJHz5Q 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No kipping needed... http://www.youtube.com/user/stroeiulian04#p/u/10/UyyAbAJHz5Q Holy shit, that's impressive! Regardless, as I said...MOST people will have more success learning a muscle up after having mastered the kipping pullup...strict muscle ups that that kid come later...again, for most people.
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...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No kipping needed... http://www.youtube.com/user/stroeiulian04#p/u/10/UyyAbAJHz5Q Holy. Shit. |
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...Again, could you do a strict MU the first time you got one? When you rep out MU do you do them strict or do you kip? Nope I honestly don't do them anymore, I do very little work on the rings lately. But if I was going for time I would kip. Ok, then like I said if he's working towards a mu then he needs to work on kipping Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile No kipping needed... http://www.youtube.com/user/stroeiulian04#p/u/10/UyyAbAJHz5Q Holy shit, that's impressive! Regardless, as I said...MOST people will have more success learning a muscle up after having mastered the kipping pullup...strict muscle ups that that kid come later...again, for most people. That's freaky. I hope he isn't lifting weights at that age. |
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Start adding weight around your legs or waist. This^^^^^^^^ I use a dip belt with a chain and strap a 45 between my legs. I can only do about 4-5 reps like that, but I weight 290 pounds. Its like any other exercise iin that at some point you wont get stronger, you'll just get better endurance. If you want strength you add weight. |