[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Question for LE guys (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/4/2010 6:26:21 PM EDT
| Just saw the footage of dude running around the phillies baseball game on the field and finally was tasered. Is simple non-compliance with no threat whatsoever reason to taser? Is non compliance considered danger or a threat? Is a taser considered non lethal even though it just killed a guy in southern ut? Seems he was just trespassing and show boating and got the taser. Justified in this case? Just curious as to what the ar guys and le guys think. |
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Just saw the footage of dude running around the phillies baseball game on the field and finally was tasered. Is simple non-compliance with no threat whatsoever reason to taser? Is non compliance considered danger or a threat? Is a taser considered non lethal even though it just killed a guy in southern ut? Seems he was just trespassing and show boating and got the taser. Justified in this case? Just curious as to what the ar guys and le guys think. If they do not comply with a repeated command then tazering is fine. |
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Taser is a suitable alternative to going hands-on at most PDs. If you can tackle him/her, you can likely Taser him/her....especially if he/she isn't complying with reasonable commands.... This stuff ain't rocket science. +++++++++++++ Yes, you have to be certified. Just about all PDs have their own instructors. Not a big deal. Carrying a Taser, if certified, is up to the PD rules/reg or general orders. Some mandate carry, some make it optional. Most PDs do not require the student officer to be Tase'd... |
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I notice not all cops carry taser. Do you need to qualify with it? Do all cops have the option to carry it? Is getting shot with it a requirement to carry it? Depends on the department, some departments cant afford them and yes you do need to qualify...and by qualify i mean you have to take a shock  you dont have to be shot with the darts but you need to take the shock (IE. hold on to the darts, group holds hand and holds darts ect.)
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Tasering is considered "less lethal" not "non lethal". I stopped carrying one due to the lack of use. I used it twice in almost threee years, and I wanted the belt space. 
Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. 
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I notice not all cops carry taser. Do you need to qualify with it? Do all cops have the option to carry it? Is getting shot with it a requirement to carry it? Yes, a minimum of 8 hours in a TASER International approved training course, plus currency updates and follow-on training. We don't have to carry it, but along with an ASP and OC, it's another tool on one's belt. "Riding the Lightning" is a requirement and IT SUCKS! My buddy said it best. "It feels like someone is hitting you, as hard as they can, in the small of your back, with a baseball bat a million times a second". Or like another buddy of mine says when he has to unholster his TASER, "it's time to talk to Dr. Watt!" Besides, taking the cartridge out and pulling the trigger gets you a very loud crackling noise that cuts through loud drunk voices at most parties and football games. It has an amazing and calming effect. |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. Really? Wow, how do they figure that? Above my pay grade we have been arguing to get it changed since we started carrying them. Problem for us is that another local agency went overboard with the taser and gave them a very bad reputation in the community. |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. What a terrible policy. The purpose of TASER is to prevent the inevitable injury of going hands-on. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Yes you have to be trained. Taking a ride is no longer mandatory but recommended iirc. eight hours minimum plus recerts
When it can be used will vary by department policy. Verbal noncompliance is an acceptable level at my agency. Per many departments it is justified. Why? Well you can be ineffective and yell at the guy. You can tackle him and hope he or an officer does not get hurt. You could oc his ass and hope he don't keep running or run into some one and then get that shit all over a bunch of people. Or you can light him up and substantially reduce the risk of injury to both the officer and the suspect. Every death that by tazer I am aware of has had underlying issues. Either health drugs or both (sorry your average meth user ain't all that healthy drugs are far more common than health on the single issue ones). They were all ready circling the drain when the tazer hit them. THis is not a new phenomonon. There are documented cases of this with OC, hands on etc. IT has been given various labels and different things have been blamed over the 20 years of my career. Sudden in custody death, positional asphysixia, excited delirium etc etc ad nauseum. It is basically the doctors way of saying he lived a shitty life we ain't sure what happened but he is dead. Or as I put it earlier, he was circling the drain when the tazer hit. All the tazer did was shift the big wad of tp out of the way so the rest of the shit could go down. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that.  Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. What a terrible policy. The purpose of TASER is to prevent the inevitable injury of going hands-on. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Your preaching to the choir. We have had people out on injury leave because of this policy and can probably tie one medical retirement to it as well. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Simple. Unless the guy stops willingly as you scream stop or I'll shout stop again, you will have to take him down eventually. NO can you out run most folks? Maybe. But then again I spent 8 years in a college town with nationally ranked track and cross country runners. You were not catching one of those guys unless the got stupid, you had lots of cops in the area or a K9. Doing a take down on a running person increase the chance of injury for both the suspect and the officer. I think it was about a year ago there was a thread on here where an officer took down a fleeing suspect and wound up getting shot or stabbed. Should every runner be tazed? Probably not. Should every runner NOT be tazed. Hell no. A policy needs to reflect this and allow officers to articulate the reasonableness/necessity of their actions. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? That's entirely dependent on the agency. Some allow for Taser deployment to prevent foot pursuits. I know of at least one agency that had(!) the Taser as one step above verbal commands. That was quite interesting, for as long as it lasted. |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. Interesting. If they would have smacked that Phillies guy down with batons, I think the press would have been problematic (not with me, mind you). |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. What a terrible policy. The purpose of TASER is to prevent the inevitable injury of going hands-on. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile The latest supreme court case is to blame. Now, for the most part, if you can punch or kick the suspect you can taze them (one department I trained with anyways) Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Sir, I'm not saying this to you directly, but bad things can happen in a foot pursuit––I know. I tripped and fell during one (that never would've happened had I had a Taser; mine was broken at the time), and I tore the labrum in my shoulder. One surgery and four months of physical therapy, and over $10,000 in worker's comp costs to my former employer. I never want to repeat that. Depending on department policy, a foot pursuit can be considered "active resistance." You are fleeing from an officer, and disobeying his commands to stop. |
| Failure to obey lawful commands can get you a shock. When i was certified, the first class in my region, we got shot. Didn't know it was comming. Instructors just walked in and started popping. Lucky me, i got it in the back in front of the line. Hurt like hell. Now, they just tape the prongs to students. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Seriously?.... is that your AGENCY's mentality? Do you share in that mind set? If so, how long have you been in LE working the road? Perhaps you have never observed an officer get injured running after a suspect... I have. Hell, I have twisted my ankle, got cut by wire going over fences, slipped in gravel, etc. Running after a suspect, watching him/her, watching your surroundings, watching WHERE you are running, keeping dispatch and others informed of your direction of travel and status, etc, all add up to a HIGH RISK environment. The TASER is used to REDUCE the risk of injury. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Taser is aslo to prevent escape. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? It may protect someone else, potentially an innocent bystander from injury? Just spitballin here |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? It may protect someone else, potentially an innocent bystander from injury? Just spitballin here Because, people tear muscles, ligaments, tendons etc during foot pursuits, they trip, run into stuff, and that causes broken stuff, etc especially, when you ain't 21 any more, and are wearing 30 lbs in gear. Plus is it better to Taser someone, or clothes line them? Taser someone, or throw them to the earth when you catch up to them, remember horse collar tackles, are still legal in the LEO bowl. Taser someone, or push them when you catch up to them, so they fall, then land on top of them? Think about the alternatives. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? It may protect someone else, potentially an innocent bystander from injury? Just spitballin here Because, people tear muscles, ligaments, tendons etc during foot pursuits, they trip, run into stuff, and that causes broken stuff, etc especially, when you ain't 21 any more, and are wearing 30 lbs in gear. Plus is it better to Taser someone, or clothes line them? Taser someone, or throw them to the earth when you catch up to them, remember horse collar tackles, are still legal in the LEO bowl. Taser someone, or push them when you catch up to them, so they fall, then land on top of them? Think about the alternatives. I think we're agreeing, I'm saying it's good to tase them if they're running away.
It could prevent injury to both parties, plus innocent bystanders that get too close. I know I'd hate to see a situation where someone runs, pulls out a knife and grabs a pedestrian as a hostage when the threat could've been eliminated before that. |
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If you're willing to break the law then you should be willing to accept the consequences too.
Like I said in the other thread....don't want your ass getting tasered? Stay off the fucking field, the fans paid to see a ballgame by professional ball players, not some jackass dickfuck being a distraction and nuisance. |
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Taser is above baton on our use of force.
A taser can prevent injury, a baton, when deployed and used correctly WILL create injury. Do you all beat people of a car first with a baton or chase them down with the baton out, and if they don't comply AFTER a few strikes to the solar plexus, then you taser? Interesting policy. |
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If you're willing to break the law then you should be willing to accept the consequences too. Like I said in the other thread....don't want your ass getting tasered? Stay off the fucking field, the fans paid to see a ballgame by professional ball players, not some jackass dickfuck being a distraction and nuisance. Would you close your eyes and not watch that old school blonde bimbo with the big boobies chasing players down? 
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I am a cop. I am an intermediate weapons instructor. I have been tazed 5 times and peppered sprayed 20 or more,had my ass pig piled acting like a bad guy and have seen lots of baton strikes.
Taze me any day before you do any of the others. The tazer hurts moderately for 8 seconds and then it's over. All the rest hurt for much longer and worse. TJR |
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I am a cop. I am an intermediate weapons instructor. I have been tazed 5 times and peppered sprayed 20 or more,had my ass pig piled acting like a bad guy and have seen lots of baton strikes. Taze me any day before you do any of the others. The tazer hurts moderately for 8 seconds and then it's over. All the rest hurt for much longer and worse. TJR 
Did you guys get a special model? |
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Would not be justified in my department we have to go "hands on" first or be able to explain why going hands on would be dangerous. Taser is above baton on our use of force. Interesting. If they would have smacked that Phillies guy down with batons, I think the press would have been problematic (not with me, mind you). I've seen some of my own use of forces caught on our CCTV system in the projects. No matter how justified, a wood shampoo always looks ugly on tape. Still though, I don't have a taser, so I'll stick to the stick...so to speak. |
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I am a cop. I am an intermediate weapons instructor. I have been tazed 5 times and peppered sprayed 20 or more,had my ass pig piled acting like a bad guy and have seen lots of baton strikes. Taze me any day before you do any of the others. The tazer hurts moderately for 8 seconds and then it's over. All the rest hurt for much longer and worse. TJR
Did you guys get a special model? Mistyped I just got out of a class where we used the Bandit,a transport device that attaches to a limb and it's a 8 second ride,Taser is still 5 seconds.
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? That's entirely dependent on the agency. Some allow for Taser deployment to prevent foot pursuits. I know of at least one agency that had(!) the Taser as one step above verbal commands. That was quite interesting, for as long as it lasted. That has been our policy since we got tasers. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Seriously?.... is that your AGENCY's mentality? Do you share in that mind set? If so, how long have you been in LE working the road? Perhaps you have never observed an officer get injured running after a suspect... I have. Hell, I have twisted my ankle, got cut by wire going over fences, slipped in gravel, etc. Running after a suspect, watching him/her, watching your surroundings, watching WHERE you are running, keeping dispatch and others informed of your direction of travel and status, etc, all add up to a HIGH RISK environment. The TASER is used to REDUCE the risk of injury. Well, over 12 years experience in a city P.D., about 500 or so sworn personnel. My whole career has been in uniform, on the street, in violent neighborhoods, anti-crime team, lots of vehicular criminal interdiction, etc. I've arrested plenty of bad guys, and have been in, and won, lots of good foot chases, and have gotten hurt. I guess I can see where our admin wouldn't want us to taser running suspects, as the benefits may outweigh the risks of the suspect falling into traffic, falling on/off a fence, falling and hitting their head on a curb, etc. I guess it would be ok if the most common consequence was falling into a bed of lillipads in a gator infested swamp. Meh, footchases are part of the job. |
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I am a cop. I am an intermediate weapons instructor. I have been tazed 5 times and peppered sprayed 20 or more,had my ass pig piled acting like a bad guy and have seen lots of baton strikes. Taze me any day before you do any of the others. The tazer hurts moderately for 8 seconds and then it's over. All the rest hurt for much longer and worse. TJR
Did you guys get a special model? 3 seconds to wipe away the tears. |
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Seems like the Phillies game incident demonstrates a use of a taser as a substitute for a lasso or some shit. And I'm fine with that. Our department policy does not allow the use of a Taser for the sole purpose of preventing a foot pursuit. If someone is running AWAY from you, how does a Taser deployment prevent you from injury? Sometimes, hurting people is part of our job too. Hence Tasing them when they are running. Understand where you are coming from though. Seriously?.... is that your AGENCY's mentality? Do you share in that mind set? If so, how long have you been in LE working the road? Perhaps you have never observed an officer get injured running after a suspect... I have. Hell, I have twisted my ankle, got cut by wire going over fences, slipped in gravel, etc. Running after a suspect, watching him/her, watching your surroundings, watching WHERE you are running, keeping dispatch and others informed of your direction of travel and status, etc, all add up to a HIGH RISK environment. The TASER is used to REDUCE the risk of injury. Well, over 12 years experience in a city P.D., about 500 or so sworn personnel. My whole career has been in uniform, on the street, in violent neighborhoods, anti-crime team, lots of vehicular criminal interdiction, etc. I've arrested plenty of bad guys, and have been in, and won, lots of good foot chases, and have gotten hurt. I guess I can see where our admin wouldn't want us to taser running suspects, as the benefits may outweigh the risks of the suspect falling into traffic, falling on/off a fence, falling and hitting their head on a curb, etc. I guess it would be ok if the most common consequence was falling into a bed of lillipads in a gator infested swamp. Meh, footchases are part of the job. |
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I notice not all cops carry taser. Do you need to qualify with it? Do all cops have the option to carry it? Is getting shot with it a requirement to carry it? Depends on the department, some departments cant afford them and yes you do need to qualify...and by qualify i mean you have to take a shock you dont have to be shot with the darts but you need to take the shock (IE. hold on to the darts, group holds hand and holds darts ect.)Yep. They don't make everybody take the full 5 second ride here, but they'll give you a one or two second ride so you know what it feels like and for use in testifying in court later on that you do in fact know the effects the taser causes, seeing as you have been hit with it, etc. |
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I notice not all cops carry taser. Do you need to qualify with it? Do all cops have the option to carry it? Is getting shot with it a requirement to carry it? Depends on the department, some departments cant afford them and yes you do need to qualify...and by qualify i mean you have to take a shock you dont have to be shot with the darts but you need to take the shock (IE. hold on to the darts, group holds hand and holds darts ect.)Yep. They don't make everybody take the full 5 second ride here, but they'll give you a one or two second ride so you know what it feels like and for use in testifying in court later on that you do in fact know the effects the taser causes, seeing as you have been hit with it, etc. I want them to play my taser video in court. 
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