Posted: 6/15/2005 11:19:37 PM EDT
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It's late, I'm still here at work, and I'm trying to figure something out with Democrats, Republicans, and guns. I'm hoping you all here can help. Why is it that Democrats (in general) are anti-gun and Republicans (in general) are pro-gun? Doesn't it seem a little strange, given that Democrats are against government intrusion into people's private lives and are "liberal"? Wouldn't it make sense that they should be the ones that are pro-gun? Shouldn't the Republicans be the ones that are anti-gun, seeing as how they're "conservative"? I know it's a controversial topic, and I'm not trying to start any shit (though I'm sure it'll happen). I'm just trying to figure this out so I can use any info to my advantage when trying to persuade any "anti-gunners" I talk to... |
Why do you think Liberals are against government intrusion into private lives? Neither political party is for this, frankly. The democrats are happy to dive into your wallet on the government's behalf, and the republicans are happy to tell you how to live a moral life by way of Uncle Sam. Both sides are very much about using the government to their advantage. |
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I don't mean "conservative" in the anti-gun kind of way. I guess I'm thinking conservative in the way that Republicans are against abortion. I personally don't equate conservative to someone being against gun ownership. NOTE: This is not meant to be an abortion/right to life debate!!!!!!!!!! |
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i didn't mean to be an ass either....i was saying, in my opinion, democrats believe that government should take care of people-welfare,etc. so they feel that the police should protect you therefore you don't need guns eta-the police can arrest the man who kills you...but that doesn't do you much good, does it? |
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Err Liberal nowadays typically stands for a expanded role of government, more extensive governmental powers and the leveraging of Governments size to benefit those under said government. Its a lot easier to justify registration banning etc, with that then with a limited government philosophy. |
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Liberals, are the people that give up their lunch money to bullies without a fight Democrats, are the coward bullies that take the money and hide it Republicans, are a bigger, tougher,and badass bully that finds the first bully, takes the stolen lunch money back from the bully, give him a well deserved ass kicking, and return the money back, to the people to which it really belongs |
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Maybe it's just the education I had in high school (in NJ), but I learned that Democrats were for bigger government helping the people (and higher taxes), and Republicans were for smaller government (and less taxes). It seems to me that the ones that are always for "human rights" and "personal freedoms" (take the gay marriage issue, for example) always seem to be "liberals" (aka Democrats). These people are always the ones that squawk that loudest when there's an infringement upon someone's rights (religion, sexual orientation, race issues, etc.), but you never hear them protest any Second Amendment violations. Curious. Again, it's late and maybe I'm not making sense to anyone else. Edited fer spellin' |
"Democrats are against government intrusion into people's private lives" Where did you ever get that crazy idea!??? Democrats are COLLECTIVISTS. Everything is about promoting collective rights and "group rights". There is no "individualism" in the Democratic ideals. For them - it's all "for the good of society". "The purpose of government is to rein in the rights of the people" ~ Bill Clinton "At a time when our entire country is banding together and facing down individualism, the Patriots set a wonderful example, showing us all what is possible when we work together, believe in each other, and sacrifice for the greater good." ~ Ted Kennedy "If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees." ~ Bill Clinton "If someone is so fearful that, that they're going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, makes me very nervous that these people have these weapons at all!" ~ Rep. Henry Waxman, D-NY, MSNBC report on .50BMG rifles. "And so a lot of people say there's too much personal freedom. When personal freedom's being abused, you have to move to limit it. That's what we did in the announcement I made last weekend on the public housing projects, about how we're going to have weapon sweeps and more things like that to try to make people safer in their communities." ~ Bill Clinton "We must stop thinking of the individual and start thinking about what is best for society." ~ Hillary Clinton "We cannot be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." ~ Bill Clinton "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." ~ Hillary Clinton Need they say anymore? |
I am becoming more convinced that there is little difference between the two parties in the long run. I think there is more going on than what you might think. Why hasn't the border been secured by now? I got a call from the RNC today asking for more money. I told them to call back when the border is secured. 
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Again, you're missing the whole point. They aren't against government intrusion, but are forcing it on everyone. They're taking every perversion and minority special interest group and making them special in some way, so they can increase government control over the majority who don't fit into one of these little catagories. The "infringement on someone's rights" you mentioned is another backwards/misleading statement. The things you refer to are more accurately described as a lack of special rights. The libs are the ones who are trying to destroy religion and any reference to it, while trying to give special status to anyone belonging to certain groups. (Racial quotas, diversity, etc.) Please tell me you're just trolling, and don't really think this way. 
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The liberals will shout from the rooftops "Rights!" and "Freedom!" but their doctrine is mostly marxism. They only squawk about infringement when it's someone like them or that they support being under "attack." If it's someone or idealogy they do not agree with rarely will they speak up. It's not that they're just hypocritical but also following marxist methodology. |
uh-oh 
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Liberals base everything on need. If they believe that you don't "NEED" something, they will try to ban it. On the other hand, Republicans are more forward thinking in that they base their beliefs on personal choice and responsibility. If you want it you can have it, but if you abuse it you must pay the consequences. Liberals pass laws that restrict law abiding citizens from enjoying personal freedoms, because liberals believe that government knows what's best for us and we are too stupid to make our own choices. Republicans pass laws that allow law abiding citizens to enjoy personal freedoms, Liberals try to save people from themselves. Wow, I am in deep shit then, because I often live my life dangerously. Be Safe. Joe ETA: Liberals "jump" on the anti-gun bandwagon just because it is a politically charged issue. 90% of the liberals that are anti-gun don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about, because they know abosolutely nothing about guns. It's easier for them to sell their agenda with warm fuzzy pabulum then it is for them to tell the truth and feed the unkowing the cold, hard truth..... |
Based on this, nothing more need be said! I'll keep quiet. |
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Regarding the democrate statement...about the "police" protecting us. I respect the police and military. And it is a shame whenever an armed citizen kills a police officer or miltary person. BUT can you IMAGINE the power trip police and military would get if they were the only ones with guns. I think it would be bad. They would definetly abuse their power much more. I am a republican...and very conservative. I am anti-gay marriage, pro-life, pro-gun, and I very much believe in Christianity. This is why I voted for Bush. He has the beliefs I do. I saw a great sticker on a cars bumper yesterday. Said "Another Democrate (bold in red letters) for BUSH!" |
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The anti gun leanings you'll find in the democratic party are another testament to the silliness of the party platforms. It's a purely knee jerk thing that on the surface, seems logical and easy to sell to the masses as a 'safety' issue, especially when they can paint the NRA as an extremist group interested in its own narrow freedom interest no matter what the cost of society. Clearly, if you look deeper, as most republicans and some democrats have, that simplistic view doesn't work. When taken as a freedom/responsibility issue, and presented as such, there is wide biipartisan support for ownership. The democratic party leadership, which is roundly anti-gun, knows this and focuses on hot button issues and scare tactics such as 'assault weapons', and the various legislative fiats to eliminate ownership by destroying manufacturers. It's also an easy pass for craven democratic leaders, who can simply blame crime, gangs, excessive murder rates on guns and gun manufacturers instead of working to solve the problem. Just look at NYC, which, while decidedly anti-gun, reduced it's murder rate by70 percent through effective policing and leadership of Rudy Guiliani. Chicago, on the other hand, also extremely anti-gun, which is run by the controversial mayor Daley, is getting worse every year. Daley's sole plan seems to be blaming the 3 gun stores in NW Indiana for selling to his drug dealers. So, for the democrats it's purely polotical, badly miscalculated, and consistently costing them elections. I don't know why they don't give up their fixation on gun control. |
Sounds like you got the basic differences correct But........."helping the people" means perpetual welfare, AA, and Socialized medicine These things do not really "help the people" they are just a means to buy votes The Republicans don't "stand for" less taxes they want less regulation and less participation in Socialist programs (which should result in less taxes) Sometimes you get to see what "injustices" the Dems are really interested in protesting A few months ago a Republican(note: Republican) made a stupid comment to a little girl in a classroom, something about how Isis didn't mean princess it meant stupid little girl The Dems were outraged, they made preparations to protest the man into unemployment they garnered their forces, they gilded their loins, they began attacking him in the press, calling for his termination, railing against the injustice, protests were organized................ Then somebody pointed out the little girl was white..............protest cancelled, outrage cancelled, Heh  |
No shit. Liberals want to tell you what you can and can't think. They want to minimize your sphere of activities, education, employment, health care.......virtually everything..........outside the realm of government management. But they themselves want to be able to go to private schools, hospitals, etc. Liberals think you need the government to help you manage your life. Since you're so helpless and incompetent, it goes without saying you can't handle the responsibility of owning something like a gun. |
The Republican party is the party of less government and more individual freedom. The Democratic party is the party of bigger government, social programs, governmental parenting, etc... |
So you also believe in open illegal immigration, unsecured borders while harassing U.S. Citizens who fly within the country, signing the renewed AWB if it comes across your desk, appointing an anti-gun and pro illegal-immigrant Attorney General, and making social security even more of a socialist nightmare by giving higher benefits to those who put less in? Wow. |
Sir you need to get some sleep and reconsider your arguement. Democrats are 100% in favor of intrusion into your life in every way possible. Big government, big taxes blah blah blah. Same old shit. Democrats locked up the Jap-Americans in WWII, Democrats gave us segregation, democrats gave us 'the great society', democrats gave us the civil war. And so on. There is a thing called the 2nd ammendment in the bill of rights. Go read it please. I would like to think that both sides of the isle would respect the 2nd and all other aspects of our constitution. Sadly, both sides make their jobs to abuse the constitution. One agregious violation being the fricking "Patriot Act". Thtat POS legislation is patently unconstitutional!!!!! Speaking of reading, you might want to consider 'Unintended Consquences' by Ross. John Ross I believe it is. Exceptional reading, and fun. Carry on! 
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No need to keep quiet, as I was simply asking a question. Trolling generally means posting something known to be wrong just to stir things up and laugh at the resulting arguments. If you'll notice, I said I was hoping you were trolling, because I'd prefer that to having you actually be that misguided on what the two parties stand for. Lurking just makes you a lurker, which there's nothing wrong with, bit I enjoy this so much I can't see why people don't post. Don't go away over a simple question.
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/Slight Hijack/ I've never liked Clinton (neither of them) for many reasons. If these quotes are authentic... then I'm more than appaled. Especially the one in blue... how can anyone admire/respect/want him as president after a statement like this? I never knew he was a communist. |
There isn't much sense to be made of the 'core' beliefs or party platforms anymore. One thing you can be certain of is that if someone's beliefs coincide EXACTLY with either of the 2 contradictory and senseless platforms, they aren't paying enough attention. |
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By no means was I arguing for or against anything. I was merely trying to get some insight into what other people thought, people who by the very nature of having a login ID for this site most assuredly feel the same way I do about fireams ownership. I will admit that my insight or research into this topic is not as "comprehensive" as some of the others who have posted, and my desire to start reading a bunch of books on the subject is admittedly (and perhaps sadly) not really there right now. Now let's start a thread on Kalifornia....just kidding! |
They are so long as your a minority in America and can vote. However if you are a minority in Bush's cabinet all bets are off and they will use your minority status against you. You wont hear them chear for freedom and democracy in the middle eastern countries we go into however. |