Posted: 11/24/2009 8:50:32 PM EDT
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Ok so i know this is going to sound like im a cop trolling a cop thread but Im a dog lover too and this one really bothered me. Keep in mind that i dont really have all the details, so lets just keep this hypothetical:
So many agencies around here run the same dispatch program and i can look at calls from neighboring jurisdictions. A call drops on another dispatch screen of juveniles breaking into the empty house next door. Units run hot to the scene and upon arrival become engaged in a big foot pursuit through the neighborhood. One officer is jumping fences and gets into a yard with a dog, (behavior and aggressiveness of dog is unknown), cop shoots dog in its own back yard and continues the foot pursuit. Cop comes back later and homeowner is understandable IRATE. Thats all i was able to read from the callslip. Im thinking if i was off duty kicking it at the house and some cop ran through my back yard, shot my dog for barking at him, and then ran off... I would be super pissed. Assuming the dog was aggressive it would have barked at the juvenile first giving the cop warning and allowing him to run around that fence and go through a neighbors yard or whatever. I havent had to shoot a dog *yet* i came really really F'in close to blasting the meanest black lab ive ever seen last week though. Whats your department policy on when lethal force is authorized against animals and how is that effected by private property or fenced in back yards? |
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Officer Safety....Drop the Dog. Remember brother....We Go Home At Night! Bullshit. Been doing this for 15 years, including 11 on SWAT. Haven't felt the need to shoot a dog yet. Much less one that's in its own fenced yard, unrelated to your call, and doing what it is supposed to do. I have no problem shooting a dog that needs to be shot, but apparently my 'need' threshold is alot higher than most. Strangely enough though, I've never been bitten on the job (by a dog anyway). |
I am not going to second guess the officer since I was not there, however after 18+ yrs on the job I have not ever had to shoot a dog. I have sprayed them with OC and kicked some that got close, but never had to resort to shooting one. That includes many hundreds of search warrants at doper houses with pit bulls in the yard. (did find a pit recently dead at a house when we hit it though... the doper had hidden an ounce of crack in the pits dog house and the dog ate it, the dog was feet up when we got there  )
Actually every dog that has bitten me at work was when I worked K9 for a few years. I have several scars from different dogs that I got lax around, tohugh I consider that my fault, not theirs. |
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Twice I've been at the point of pulling the trigger - both times it was pit bulls. One came at me and ran past out the gate. The other incident there were 2 pit bulls charging me in the side yard. I was yelling "dog" and getting ready to fire when about 10 feet from me, they both sat down. The owner came and got them. Odd. Both times I would have been within policy to shoot them as they were aggressive and coming at me. I just waited until the last possible moment to decide if I was going to fire. I am a dog lover too and I would be very pissed if my dog was shot in my back yard. However, the blame is on the juveniles. I can't second guess the cop because I wasn't there and I don't have enough info. |
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My dog and I bet you do not go home that night. I was reading this thread with some disinterest until I ran across this gem. Bad shoot of a dog - civil issue, possibly destruction of property. Probably not a bad shoot anyway. Shooting a police officer because he shot your dog (read - property) - Capital Murder baby. Don't worry, in VA you can still choose the juice or the chair... |
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Bad guy made it through the yard with the dog? Cop could not?
You shoot my dog in my yard and I will kick your ass and sue you. 
I have never had to shoot a dog. But then I am not scared of most dogs and have owned big dogs forever. I ran a SWAT call once where my specific job was to kill this vicious pit bull that bad guy kept. I chose a shotgun for the job. The door was rammed open and the dog ran out past us without even looking at us, he was scared witless and kept on trucking. Made me happy. I love dogs. edit because I forgot the emoticon to indicate I was not completely serious about that statement. I'd just kick your ass. 
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All depends on the situation. Not there and don't know all the details. However if a dog attacks me regardless of where and why, I will shoot it. Regardless of where and why? OK, I'll see your shooting the dog and raise you one mondo lawsuit. You are responsible for your actions. It boggles my mind. |
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Officer Safety....Drop the Dog. Remember brother....We Go Home At Night! Bullshit. Been doing this for 15 years, including 11 on SWAT. Haven't felt the need to shoot a dog yet. Much less one that's in its own fenced yard, unrelated to your call, and doing what it is supposed to do. I have no problem shooting a dog that needs to be shot, but apparently my 'need' threshold is alot higher than most. Strangely enough though, I've never been bitten on the job (by a dog anyway). +1 Not sure how bright it is to just go fence hoping into yards without even checking what the hells in the yard. Maybe the perp is there with a shovel he just found or an axe  I never understood going cowboy into that sort of thing.
I would not have shot that dog and I am pretty sure if that happened in my yard and my dog got shot, we would have some serious f'ing issues to sort out. I assure you anyone comes into my yard or my house, the dog is going for them, and he is not some dangerous killer dog. Bad deal all around. Details might change things, but given the current info, I would not have responded to the call at all like this. I'm with HK, some dogs, deer, snakes whatever need to be shot, some people need to nut up and given over irrational fears. Also, not trying to call anyone out, but the "we go home" thing is not a blanket cover all. You need to be accountable for yourself and how you do you job out there. With a little communication, tactics and thinking, I think this could have been a totally different call. I work in a large city, so I expect it can be a different story for the small town guys. I stick with my guns with saying just jumping fences and chasing people without a little bit looking at where you are going or thinking is a good way to land you with a folded flag for the family. |
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I also wanted to add, there aren't many details here to go on.
Must be nice to be able to read or see other juris.'s calls. We work with 2 other counties and it would be a tremendous help to know what they have going on since several of our big streets have the lines draw crazy as hell between us and them. That must be pretty handy. |
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Wow, im actually impressed and pleased that this didnt turn into a shit storm. I guess im getting older and more tame.
Ok so heres my story of stupidity. I went on an animal humane (loose dog) call about a month and a half ago where this HUGGGGE mean scary as hell looking pit bull was running loose in the neighbhood. I came down the block in my car and this dog runs up the the drivers side door barking and snarling like mad. My windows down and im barely moving and see him about 6 feet from the door and didnt really have time to react. Next thing i know hes got his head IN my fucking window frame and is staring me face to face by about 6 inches. Im quitely shitting bricks at this point wondering if im going to get eaten or carjacked by this trashcan sized headed pit. I carefully ease my 45 out of the holster and put it up to the dogs face and put my other hand out to pet it / shoo it away. Dog licks my fingers!!! Friendly as can be! Anyhow i get out and start knocking on doors asking neighbors if they know where the dog belongs. Turns out the dog is extremely territorial and chases anything that moves, cars, people on bikes, other dogs, joggers, ect. but as long as you stand still and hold your ground hes relatively harmless. So long story short this kid comes around the end of the block with this little fluffy 15-20 pound dog at his side that doesnt have a collar or leash. Kid says that the pit bull lives two houses down and i start trying to coax the dog back over there. Well right at this time a black SUV drives up with a young female in the drivers seat and an older woman in the passengers seat. The older woman hollers through the car that the pit it hers and calls the dog over to the open passengers side door. When the pit runs towards the car the kids little fluffy dog decides to run over there and mess with it. I scream at the kid like 4 times to grab his dog because the pit will eat it and the kid does nothing. Little dog runs up behind the pit and the pit snaps at the little dog, little dog panicks and snaps back, and BAM huge dog fight. The little kid and the woman are about to get into the middle to break it up and i didnt want anybody to get bitten so i reached in there with my right hand / gun hand (stupid but i was stuck between the SUV and the door and couldnt reach it with my left hand. I grabbed the little dog by the rump and tried to yank him out of the fight really quick but it still managed to bite my hand leaving me with two puncture wounds on the top of my hand and a deep, almost all the way to the bone, puncture wound on the inside of my right hand in that meaty part between the thumb and the wrist. It was a little hole but it bled like a water faucet. Had to go to the ER and get the hand cleaned and got put on antibiotics for 2 weeks. I leaned two things from that: 1 little dogs will ALWAYS ALWAYS bite you before a big dog 2. a small dog bite can really mess you up, its good to love dogs and err on the side of caution, but if it comes to getting bit or busting a dog in the mouth with a baton, get to swinging! I had a black lab try to eat me last week and that dog was lucky not to get hurt with the way it was acting. Im just trying to think about how mad i would be if another officer came onto my property and killed a family member. I wonder if there was adequate sinage posted everywhere on the fence indicating that there is an aggressive dog inside, if that would prevent a situation like that shooting. |
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There is too little information to go on to determine if the shoot was ok. It will depend on his policy and the details of the incident.
With my agency, we can shoot an animal if it presents a threat. Animals do not get the same consideration as people, and that is how it should be. So if a dog is a threat to my personal safety I am within the law and my department policy if I shoot the animal. So for those who think you would win a lawsuit or "kick my ass" for doing so, things will end very poorly for you. Don't get me wrong, I'd be pissed if my dog was shot by an Officer during a foot pursuit. I would expect no less from anyone who has a dog. But letting that emotion lead to foolish behavior will serve nobody. Having said that, I have never had to shoot an animal. I've had a couple close calls but found other means to resolve the situation. I've used OC, I've backed off, and I've used other objects as barriers. If I can avoid shooting a dog, I will. I know they are doing their job if I'm on their turf and they don't know me. I would feel terrible about shooting a dog unless it was loose and attacking people outside of its territory. In the end, if the Officer was legally allowed to be where he was and the dog presented a threat to the Officer, he will almost certainly be within the law and policy. If either of those two elements are not present, then he will be in hot water. Where I work, jumping fences in a foot pursuit happens. It isn't the preferred method, but if you stop at every barrier to survey the entire yard every guy you chase will get away. You have to find a balance. From time to time you may find yourself face to face with an aggressive dog. |
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All depends on the situation. Not there and don't know all the details. However if a dog attacks me regardless of where and why, I will shoot it. Regardless of where and why? OK, I'll see your shooting the dog and raise you one mondo lawsuit. You are responsible for your actions. It boggles my mind. I really don't care. A dog attacks me I will shoot it and then sue you for your dog attacking me. I have lawyers on speed dial.
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Wow, im actually impressed and pleased that this didnt turn into a shit storm. I guess im getting older and more tame.
Ok so heres my story of stupidity. I went on an animal humane (loose dog) call about a month and a half ago where this HUGGGGE mean scary as hell looking pit bull was running loose in the neighbhood. I came down the block in my car and this dog runs up the the drivers side door barking and snarling like mad. My windows down and im barely moving and see him about 6 feet from the door and didnt really have time to react. Next thing i know hes got his head IN my fucking window frame and is staring me face to face by about 6 inches. Im quitely shitting bricks at this point wondering if im going to get eaten or carjacked by this trashcan sized headed pit. I carefully ease my 45 out of the holster and put it up to the dogs face and put my other hand out to pet it / shoo it away. Dog licks my fingers!!! Friendly as can be! Anyhow i get out and start knocking on doors asking neighbors if they know where the dog belongs. Turns out the dog is extremely territorial and chases anything that moves, cars, people on bikes, other dogs, joggers, ect. but as long as you stand still and hold your ground hes relatively harmless. So long story short this kid comes around the end of the block with this little fluffy 15-20 pound dog at his side that doesnt have a collar or leash. Kid says that the pit bull lives two houses down and i start trying to coax the dog back over there. Well right at this time a black SUV drives up with a young female in the drivers seat and an older woman in the passengers seat. The older woman hollers through the car that the pit it hers and calls the dog over to the open passengers side door. When the pit runs towards the car the kids little fluffy dog decides to run over there and mess with it. I scream at the kid like 4 times to grab his dog because the pit will eat it and the kid does nothing. Little dog runs up behind the pit and the pit snaps at the little dog, little dog panicks and snaps back, and BAM huge dog fight. The little kid and the woman are about to get into the middle to break it up and i didnt want anybody to get bitten so i reached in there with my right hand / gun hand (stupid but i was stuck between the SUV and the door and couldnt reach it with my left hand. I grabbed the little dog by the rump and tried to yank him out of the fight really quick but it still managed to bite my hand leaving me with two puncture wounds on the top of my hand and a deep, almost all the way to the bone, puncture wound on the inside of my right hand in that meaty part between the thumb and the wrist. It was a little hole but it bled like a water faucet. Had to go to the ER and get the hand cleaned and got put on antibiotics for 2 weeks. I leaned two things from that: 1 little dogs will ALWAYS ALWAYS bite you before a big dog 2. a small dog bite can really mess you up, its good to love dogs and err on the side of caution, but if it comes to getting bit or busting a dog in the mouth with a baton, get to swinging! I had a black lab try to eat me last week and that dog was lucky not to get hurt with the way it was acting. Im just trying to think about how mad i would be if another officer came onto my property and killed a family member. I wonder if there was adequate sinage posted everywhere on the fence indicating that there is an aggressive dog inside, if that would prevent a situation like that shooting. Your lessons learned should be, don't stick your hands in a dog fight, cite both dog owners for not having their animlas on a leash, and dogs are property they are not people. An officer in the next city over got a dogs on the loose call. Attacked by two pit bulls, messed up his right arm pretty bad and put him out of work for three months. No dog is worth that. |
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If an officer has the lawful authority to be somewhere he can/should handle an aggressive dog appropriately - up to/including killing it. The dog owner isn't going to file charges and the dog owner most likely isn't going to win a lawsuit - IF the officer had the legal authority to be in that particular location. Hopefully, in the case of a foot chase through backyards where the officer did have to shoot a dog the dept does the right thing and pays for medical costs/funeral costs/new dog costs because it's a PR issue otherwise.
Brian |
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This + a million! Everyone that worked today - Know that there are those that appreciate what we do, especially knowing they're with their families while we're not. Just got home from 12 hours, having Sunday Thanksgiving this year.
Regardless of your feelings here.... Take a big bite out of some Turkey today.... Happy Thanksgiving! |
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It's not my opinion , it's really things I have read about or witnessed first hand.
Many patrol officers are very poorly trained in distinguishing an aggessive dog so they shoot them. Many of these could be avoided by just proper training. I know that patrol officers have many other things to worry about other than dogs while on duty. For years officers handled situations like this without being bit and without having to shoot peoples dogs. Imagine if non law enforcement people shot dogs that took a few steps towards them or just barked at them while going about their every day lives. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: All depends on the situation. Not there and don't know all the details. However if a dog attacks me regardless of where and why, I will shoot it. Regardless of where and why? OK, I'll see your shooting the dog and raise you one mondo lawsuit. You are responsible for your actions. It boggles my mind. I really don't care. A dog attacks me I will shoot it and then sue you for your dog attacking me. I have lawyers on speed dial. If your standing in the mans fenced in back yard good luck. |
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All depends on the situation. Not there and don't know all the details. However if a dog attacks me regardless of where and why, I will shoot it. Regardless of where and why? OK, I'll see your shooting the dog and raise you one mondo lawsuit. You are responsible for your actions. It boggles my mind. I really don't care. A dog attacks me I will shoot it and then sue you for your dog attacking me. I have lawyers on speed dial. If your standing in the mans fenced in back yard good luck. I'm not worried. |
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In Texas, it is illegal to set up a "booby trap" on your property to kill or injure an intruder. I have never understood why this same statute is not applied to trained attack dogs. A trained attack dog or fighting dog is a self directed deadly weapon and should be treated as such.
I understand that some people are very sentimental about their pets, but some people are sentimental about their prize rose bushes as well. You cannot justify assaulting ANYONE, peace officer or not, for killing your dog or for trampling your favorite flowers. |
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In Texas, it is illegal to set up a "booby trap" on your property to kill or injure an intruder. I have never understood why this same statute is not applied to trained attack dogs. A trained attack dog or fighting dog is a self directed deadly weapon and should be treated as such. I understand that some people are very sentimental about their pets, but some people are sentimental about their prize rose bushes as well. You cannot justify assaulting ANYONE, peace officer or not, for killing your dog or for trampling your favorite flowers. Trained protection dogs are the best kind of dog. It's not trained protection dogs this happens to very often. Also I would add that a person( non LEO) really has no use for a level 3 trained dog. But if you have the money to pay a trainer they do provide peace of mind for your home and family. |
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Ok so i know this is going to sound like im a cop trolling a cop thread but Im a dog lover too and this one really bothered me. Keep in mind that i dont really have all the details, so lets just keep this hypothetical: So many agencies around here run the same dispatch program and i can look at calls from neighboring jurisdictions. A call drops on another dispatch screen of juveniles breaking into the empty house next door. Units run hot to the scene and upon arrival become engaged in a big foot pursuit through the neighborhood. One officer is jumping fences and gets into a yard with a dog, (behavior and aggressiveness of dog is unknown), cop shoots dog in its own back yard and continues the foot pursuit. Cop comes back later and homeowner is understandable IRATE. Thats all i was able to read from the callslip. Im thinking if i was off duty kicking it at the house and some cop ran through my back yard, shot my dog for barking at him, and then ran off... I would be super pissed. Assuming the dog was aggressive it would have barked at the juvenile first giving the cop warning and allowing him to run around that fence and go through a neighbors yard or whatever. I havent had to shoot a dog *yet* i came really really F'in close to blasting the meanest black lab ive ever seen last week though. Whats your department policy on when lethal force is authorized against animals and how is that effected by private property or fenced in back yards? Until that part gets answered there's no real sense in commenting. |
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Without all the facts/details its a tough call.
I've never shot a dog on duty, but I've sprayed several. I see alot of new "City Boy" officers that are little over zelous when it comes to loose/reported aggressive dog calls. We had a new officer that was really a good kid, but little to gung-ho. He was dispatched to an aggressive dog call in one of our older neighborhoods, I went as a cover and when I pulled up he was standing in the middle of the street, drawn down on a 35lb blue heeler, with all kinds of a no-shoot backdrop. The dog was standing in the street, ears up, tail up. I got the newby to hold off for a few seconds......I walked over to an old pick-up parked across th street and dropped the tailgate. I pounded on the tailgate and hollared "Load Up!!!"......the dog ran over, jumped up in the bed of the truck, and all but licked my face. I doubled a leash around his neck and called our ACO. Happy Ending. This not to say that I wouldnt drop a 100lb Golden Rottie Pitt Pinser that was st on injuring someone. |
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If you know there may be a dog a dry chem fire extinguisher is your best friend. I have used them to send the meanest dogs running. you know its real easy to overlook this trick when you have a dog trying to eat you but i figured out accidentally when screwing aroud as a kid that dogs HATE fire extinguishers. It makes them sneeze alot and really messes with their sensitive noses. works great to repell them. |
| Cant tell by Breed or anyt other thing. I've seen PB's that were big, fl;oppy love machines, and the WORST bite i've seen yet was a frind from another agency who got her arm zipped openy by a Neighbor's Golden Retriever. I've come close a couple of times, on and off duty in all of those cases the dog was acting Agressive, Ruff up and bristling, tail low, CG, low, and growling as opposed to barking, and hopping around like he wants to play. Luckily the dog always maintained its distence and didnt cross the point of no return and i havent had to shoot one yet. Like Bama said if the dog Attacks me, then its not going to end well, if the dog BITES me, well, it's going to end Worse. |
